VW City Golf or Toyota Matrix?

I have been driving a 1986 VW GTI for the past 10 years, and since she's
starting to show her 20 years of age, I may soon be looking for a
replacement. My VW driving and owning experiences have been good, although
certainly not flawless. Here in Canada, VW are offering the 2007 City Golf
for a very reasonable price. It's basically a 4-door A4 Golf, 2.0L engine,
disk brakes on all 4 corners. With options like air conditioning and cruise
control, it prices in around $20K CDN. Pretty good warranty. I like the
hatchback versatility, and like I said, I have enjoyed driving my GTI.

However, as many of you will know, VW are not necessarily leaders in
reliability, at least according to the summaries in Consumer Reports and
other sources. Toyotas seem to rank much better in the reliabilty area.
(Yes, I know those are statistics, and it is possible to get a trouble-free
VW or a lemon Toyota.) Looking at Toyota's lineup, the Matrix is the
closest match to the City Golf, in terms of size and configuration. With
similar options, the Matrix price is comparable, perhaps a bit higher. From
doing some on-line comparisons, here are some pros that I've found for each:

VW City Golf -
==========
PROS: better warranty; disk brakes front and rear; anti-lock brakes; torque
peak at low rpm; telescopic steering wheel; wipers are variable and speed
sensitive; nicer styling (personal opinion);


TOYOTA MATRIX
==============
PROS: better fuel economy; higher HP; cargo area has flat floor; better
reliability history; 16V engine; more usable cargo space;

Opinions, please!

"WT" <waltert@mts.net> wrote in message
news:Tpx6h.26098$E_2.25171@newsfe18.lga...[color=blue]
>I have been driving a 1986 VW GTI for the past 10 years, and since she's
> starting to show her 20 years of age, I may soon be looking for a
> replacement. My VW driving and owning experiences have been good,
> although
> certainly not flawless. Here in Canada, VW are offering the 2007 City
> Golf
> for a very reasonable price. It's basically a 4-door A4 Golf, 2.0L
> engine,
> disk brakes on all 4 corners. With options like air conditioning and
> cruise
> control, it prices in around $20K CDN. Pretty good warranty. I like the
> hatchback versatility, and like I said, I have enjoyed driving my GTI.
>
> However, as many of you will know, VW are not necessarily leaders in
> reliability, at least according to the summaries in Consumer Reports and
> other sources. Toyotas seem to rank much better in the reliabilty area.
> (Yes, I know those are statistics, and it is possible to get a
> trouble-free
> VW or a lemon Toyota.) Looking at Toyota's lineup, the Matrix is the
> closest match to the City Golf, in terms of size and configuration. With
> similar options, the Matrix price is comparable, perhaps a bit higher.
> From
> doing some on-line comparisons, here are some pros that I've found for
> each:
>
> VW City Golf -
> ==========
> PROS: better warranty; disk brakes front and rear; anti-lock brakes;
> torque
> peak at low rpm; telescopic steering wheel; wipers are variable and speed
> sensitive; nicer styling (personal opinion);
>
>
> TOYOTA MATRIX
> ==============
> PROS: better fuel economy; higher HP; cargo area has flat floor; better
> reliability history; 16V engine; more usable cargo space;
>
> Opinions, please!
>
>[/color]

I am not that familiar with the current generation of VW's, but I recommend
that you drive the Matrix and Matrix-based Pontiac Vibe to see if you like
them because they probably have a different feel and handle differently from
the VW. I've seen very few posts about Matrix problems/issues in
alt.autos.toyota, if that an indication of their lack of problems.

--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

WT wrote:[color=blue]
> VW City Golf -
> ==========
> PROS: better warranty; disk brakes front and rear; anti-lock brakes; torque
> peak at low rpm; telescopic steering wheel; wipers are variable and speed
> sensitive; nicer styling (personal opinion);
>
>
> TOYOTA MATRIX
> ==============
> PROS: better fuel economy; higher HP; cargo area has flat floor; better
> reliability history; 16V engine; more usable cargo space;
>
> Opinions, please![/color]

buy whatcha like. personally, i think the toyota will be troublefree the
longest, but the golf might be more fun to drive. ive owned a
watercooled VW, and it was a fun lil car, but i doubt id ever get
another. its all honda and toyota from now on.

I faced a similar situation a year ago. I owned a 97 Golf that had
been somewhat reliable. When I started looking for a replacement, I
wanted another Golf. But too many reviews suggested it was anything but
reliable. After owning 3 VWs (and 5 German cars) I decided to pass and
look at the cars with the better reviews: Honda, Mazda and Toyota. I
bought a Corolla (even though it's not German.)

I know how you feel about the Golf. I was disappointed that the
quality of VWs had apparently suffered. But I've been very happy with
the Corolla and have some peace of mind knowing in all likelyhood it
will be a dependable car.

How about safety? We have a 05 Passat and an 05 Lancer. I know, not the same
class of car, but that aside, the VW feels like a tank compared to the
Mitsu. Drive them both and see which you are more comfortable with.
BTW, who makes the Vibe/Matrix, Toyota or Pontiac?

Cecil

<joebob@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:1163595620.533842.43670@h54g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
>
> I faced a similar situation a year ago. I owned a 97 Golf that had
> been somewhat reliable. When I started looking for a replacement, I
> wanted another Golf. But too many reviews suggested it was anything but[/color]
blah, blah, blah.......

Naturally in any NG for a particular brand you will get opinion that favor
that brand. The fact is All manufactures are building good dependable
vehicles today. I would suggest one drive all those vehicles that suit
their needs then get a 'total drive home price,' not merely a selling price,
to determine which best suits your budget. After you get a total drive home
price you can determine if you believe any perceived differences between
vehicles are worth the cost


mike hunt


"WT" <waltert@mts.net> wrote in message
news:Tpx6h.26098$E_2.25171@newsfe18.lga...[color=blue]
>I have been driving a 1986 VW GTI for the past 10 years, and since she's
> starting to show her 20 years of age, I may soon be looking for a
> replacement. My VW driving and owning experiences have been good,
> although
> certainly not flawless.[/color]

<snip>
[color=blue]
> VW City Golf -
> ==========
> PROS: better warranty; disk brakes front and rear; anti-lock brakes;
> torque
> peak at low rpm; telescopic steering wheel; wipers are variable and speed
> sensitive; nicer styling (personal opinion);
>
>
> TOYOTA MATRIX
> ==============
> PROS: better fuel economy; higher HP; cargo area has flat floor; better
> reliability history; 16V engine; more usable cargo space;
>
> Opinions, please!
>
>
>[/color]

"WT" <waltert@mts.net> wrote in message
news:Tpx6h.26098$E_2.25171@newsfe18.lga...[color=blue]
>I have been driving a 1986 VW GTI for the past 10 years, and since she's
> starting to show her 20 years of age, I may soon be looking for a
> replacement. My VW driving and owning experiences have been good,
> although
> certainly not flawless. Here in Canada, VW are offering the 2007 City
> Golf
> for a very reasonable price. It's basically a 4-door A4 Golf, 2.0L
> engine,
> disk brakes on all 4 corners. With options like air conditioning and
> cruise
> control, it prices in around $20K CDN. Pretty good warranty. I like the
> hatchback versatility, and like I said, I have enjoyed driving my GTI.
>
> However, as many of you will know, VW are not necessarily leaders in
> reliability, at least according to the summaries in Consumer Reports and
> other sources. Toyotas seem to rank much better in the reliabilty area.
> (Yes, I know those are statistics, and it is possible to get a
> trouble-free
> VW or a lemon Toyota.) Looking at Toyota's lineup, the Matrix is the
> closest match to the City Golf, in terms of size and configuration. With
> similar options, the Matrix price is comparable, perhaps a bit higher.
> From
> doing some on-line comparisons, here are some pros that I've found for
> each:
>
> VW City Golf -
> ==========
> PROS: better warranty; disk brakes front and rear; anti-lock brakes;
> torque
> peak at low rpm; telescopic steering wheel; wipers are variable and speed
> sensitive; nicer styling (personal opinion);
>
>
> TOYOTA MATRIX
> ==============
> PROS: better fuel economy; higher HP; cargo area has flat floor; better
> reliability history; 16V engine; more usable cargo space;
>
> Opinions, please!
>
>
>[/color]
I have had three VW's and two Toyotas:

67 Karman Ghia -- too out of date to compare

86 GTI --Best handling car I have owned, reasonable reliability

90 Passat -- good handling, Lots of Shop time (wiring harness. rings, heater
core)

00 Camry -- pretty good handling, excellent reliability (no expenses beyond
maintenance and tires in 56k)

02 RAV 4 --decent handling, excellent reliability (maintenance, tires and
front brake pads).

YMMV, but Consumer Reports favors reliability of the Toyotas. Good luck
with your car hunting,

Tom

"WT" <waltert@mts.net> wrote in message
news:Tpx6h.26098$E_2.25171@newsfe18.lga...
[color=blue]
>
> However, as many of you will know, VW are not necessarily leaders in
> reliability.......[/color]

My mechanic laughs when someone says VW. His intuition is spooky, so when he
laughs, I trust him.

My choice for a new car is the Toyota Prius. It is a FULL hybrid that has
very low fuel consumption (the EPA combined city/highway rating is 55 mpg).
Toyota could easily double that figure if they would only go to the next
logical step and offer a Plug-In Hybrid Electric Vehicle (PHEV) option.

"Detailing Dude" <cecil@pdisteel.biz> wrote in message
news:gDE6h.5928$QS2.1401@newsfe21.lga...[color=blue]
> How about safety? We have a 05 Passat and an 05 Lancer. I know, not the
> same
> class of car, but that aside, the VW feels like a tank compared to the
> Mitsu. Drive them both and see which you are more comfortable with.
> BTW, who makes the Vibe/Matrix, Toyota or Pontiac?
>
> Cecil[/color]

Toyota and NUMMI make the Matrix/Vibe.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

> My mechanic laughs when someone says VW. His intuition is spooky, so when he[color=blue]
> laughs, I trust him.[/color]

Hey, don't I know you from somewhere?

> Opinions, please!

Hard to beat the reliability of a Toyota, hard to beat the feel and fun
of a VW. If I were considering the two you mentioned, I'd also be
looking at the Scion xB.

"Brian Running" <brunning@XXameritechXX.net> wrote in message
news:t7H6h.6175$IR4.2221@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net...[color=blue][color=green]
>> My mechanic laughs when someone says VW. His intuition is spooky, so when
>> he laughs, I trust him.[/color]
>
> Hey, don't I know you from somewhere?[/color]

I've never heard of you, your law practice or your bass playing. You must be
thinking of someone else.

In article <8XG6h.6474$0r.2883@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
[email]bikingis@my.fun[/email] "Papa" writes:
[color=blue]
> My choice for a new car is the Toyota Prius. It is a FULL
> hybrid that has very low fuel consumption (the EPA combined
> city/highway rating is 55 mpg). [...][/color]

At the risk of repeating myself (and others): do take those EPA
figures with a bucket of salt. Since the beginning of Aug '05,
I have managed 52mpgUK (winter) to 57mpgUK (summer), with a few
excursions to either side in odd circumstances. My dealer says
the usual figure is around 56 mpgUK. Multiply mpgUK by 0.8 for
mpgUS, IIRC.

BTW the other day someone here said that highway driving speeds
limit the Prius' advantage (words to that effect). I find that
the inherently greater efficiency of the petrol engine keeps up
a good mpg, even over hours of motorway (US:freeway/interstate)
driving at speed. No figures to hand, though. While in the US
this past summer, I saw plenty of Priuses -- common as rats, at
times -- many of which were doing a hearty rate of knots on I-5
(better than the POS Chrysler Sebring [see past discussions] my
luck had lumbering me with, at least. <g>)
--
Andrew Stephenson

WT wrote:[color=blue]
>
> Opinions, please!
>[/color]

How did they compare when you test drove them?