Highlander Question

If I buy a new Highlander, should I shell out the extra 3 to 4 grand for the
hybrid?

--
wingnut
"of no ilk"

In My Opinion:
If you want to feel good about appearing to conserve oil, go ahead. If you
want to save money there are too many variables (what will gas prices be
over the life of the vehicle, how and where do you drive, how long will you
keep the vehicle) to make a prediction. There are other, probably more
cost effective, technologies in the works but they will probably not reach
the consumer market for several years. Research carefully the secondary
costs of Hybrid vehicles, battery replacement and disposal, service and
maintenance costs, potential resale value(could be good or bad). Not a
simple question.

Jack G.
2004 Highlander

"Wingnut" <bigdogr@houston.rr.com> wrote in message
news:RH87h.33857$rG.10846@tornado.texas.rr.com...[color=blue]
> If I buy a new Highlander, should I shell out the extra 3 to 4 grand for
> the hybrid?
>
> --
> wingnut
> "of no ilk"
>[/color]

I've an 02 Highlander and probably use about $200/month in gasoline. If I
could save 30% that would be about $60 or at least 60 months to equal the
rough difference in the hybrid you mention. I think you'll find the 3500 is
very conservative to get a hybrid vs gas power. I have seen discounts on 07
Highlanders but nada on the hybrid (course this IS California)
Ron
"Wingnut" <bigdogr@houston.rr.com> wrote in message
news:RH87h.33857$rG.10846@tornado.texas.rr.com...[color=blue]
> If I buy a new Highlander, should I shell out the extra 3 to 4 grand for
> the hybrid?
>
> --
> wingnut
> "of no ilk"
>[/color]

"Wingnut" <bigdogr@houston.rr.com> wrote in message
news:RH87h.33857$rG.10846@tornado.texas.rr.com...[color=blue]
> If I buy a new Highlander, should I shell out the extra 3 to 4 grand for
> the hybrid?
>
> --
> wingnut
> "of no ilk"
>[/color]
The hybrid precludes any off road adventures according to Toyota -- TAK

Wingnut wrote:[color=blue]
> If I buy a new Highlander, should I shell out the extra 3 to 4 grand for the
> hybrid?[/color]

in california the only toyota hybrid worth buying is the prius, since it
s allowed in the carpool lane

If gas costs $2.50 and you get 25mpg, then your fuel cost is $0.10 per mile.
If the car gets 30mpg on the same gas, then your fuel cost is $0.0833 per
mile. You save $0.0167 per mile. If the premium for hybrid cost $4,000, you
would need to go 239,520 miles to break even. While the cost of gas might go
up, the DIFFERENCE in the cost per mile of a standard car or truck and a
hybrid will remain pertty much the same.

Divide the cost of gas by the expected fuel mileage to find the Cost Per
Mile. Do this for the standard model and the hybrid model. Now, subtract the
cost per mile of the hybrid from the cost per mile of the standard model to
find the difference -- fuel savings. Now, divide the premium you have to pay
to get hybrid by the difference in the cost per mile. The result is the
number of miles you have to go in order to recover the premium.

This calculation ignores the added value of hybrid, like being able to drive
in carpool lanes by yourself (if that is allowed where you travel).




"Wingnut" <bigdogr@houston.rr.com> wrote in message
news:RH87h.33857$rG.10846@tornado.texas.rr.com...[color=blue]
> If I buy a new Highlander, should I shell out the extra 3 to 4 grand for
> the hybrid?
>
> --
> wingnut
> "of no ilk"
>[/color]

In article <oP-dndJmAaHdxsPYnZ2dnUVZ_rOdnZ2d@ez2.net>
[email]crwlr@yahoo.com[/email] "Jeff Strickland" writes:
[color=blue]
> This calculation ignores the added value of hybrid, like being
> able to drive in carpool lanes by yourself (if that is allowed
> where you travel).[/color]

In the UK it goes a lot further. Already the Prius incurs a road
tax of GBP30/year, while vehicles that emit more CO2 can pay far
more (over GBP100?). I don't have the numbers handy. Maybe some
UKian can cough them up. (If the Prius emitted 4gm/Km less, it'd
incur no road tax at all: less than 100gm/Km is free. Drat.)

In southwestern outer London, the Borough of Richmond is talking
about heavy parking permit charges for smoke-makers and none for
electric vehicles. Prius doesn't get off free but scores low.

Ken Livingstone, Mayor of London, is staking his re-election on
raising the daily Inner London congestion charge to (IIRC) GBP25.
The Prius and similar, if registered (GBP10/year), gets in free.

These little costs add up. (And UK fuel is about twice the price
of that retailed in the US.) Most USians have little notion how
comfy their driving life (still) is -- sorry, gang. :-(
--
Andrew Stephenson

"Andrew Stephenson" <ames@deltrak.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1163816901snz@deltrak.demon.co.uk...[color=blue]
> In article <oP-dndJmAaHdxsPYnZ2dnUVZ_rOdnZ2d@ez2.net>
> [email]crwlr@yahoo.com[/email] "Jeff Strickland" writes:
>[color=green]
>> This calculation ignores the added value of hybrid, like being
>> able to drive in carpool lanes by yourself (if that is allowed
>> where you travel).[/color]
>
> In the UK it goes a lot further. Already the Prius incurs a road
> tax of GBP30/year, while vehicles that emit more CO2 can pay far
> more (over GBP100?). I don't have the numbers handy. Maybe some
> UKian can cough them up. (If the Prius emitted 4gm/Km less, it'd
> incur no road tax at all: less than 100gm/Km is free. Drat.)
>
> In southwestern outer London, the Borough of Richmond is talking
> about heavy parking permit charges for smoke-makers and none for
> electric vehicles. Prius doesn't get off free but scores low.
>
> Ken Livingstone, Mayor of London, is staking his re-election on
> raising the daily Inner London congestion charge to (IIRC) GBP25.
> The Prius and similar, if registered (GBP10/year), gets in free.
>
> These little costs add up. (And UK fuel is about twice the price
> of that retailed in the US.) Most USians have little notion how
> comfy their driving life (still) is -- sorry, gang. :-(
> --
> Andrew Stephenson
>[/color]

In the US, you also qualify for a tax credit with the Hybrid. For a 06
model it is $2600, which goes a long way toward making up the 4000 premium.

By the way, the dealer cut the premium for me to around $2500, but didn't
discount the MSRP as much as he would have on a non-hybrid. I think the
total result was that the hybrid was about $3000 to $3500 higher. The tax
credit means that it cost me about $900 or less extra for the hybrid.

DDD

"3D" <nospam@spam.com> wrote in message
news:12lu0g553iqmu79@corp.supernews.com...[color=blue]
>
> "Andrew Stephenson" <ames@deltrak.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:1163816901snz@deltrak.demon.co.uk...[color=green]
>> In article <oP-dndJmAaHdxsPYnZ2dnUVZ_rOdnZ2d@ez2.net>
>> [email]crwlr@yahoo.com[/email] "Jeff Strickland" writes:
>>[color=darkred]
>>> This calculation ignores the added value of hybrid, like being
>>> able to drive in carpool lanes by yourself (if that is allowed
>>> where you travel).[/color]
>>
>> In the UK it goes a lot further. Already the Prius incurs a road
>> tax of GBP30/year, while vehicles that emit more CO2 can pay far
>> more (over GBP100?). I don't have the numbers handy. Maybe some
>> UKian can cough them up. (If the Prius emitted 4gm/Km less, it'd
>> incur no road tax at all: less than 100gm/Km is free. Drat.)
>>
>> In southwestern outer London, the Borough of Richmond is talking
>> about heavy parking permit charges for smoke-makers and none for
>> electric vehicles. Prius doesn't get off free but scores low.
>>
>> Ken Livingstone, Mayor of London, is staking his re-election on
>> raising the daily Inner London congestion charge to (IIRC) GBP25.
>> The Prius and similar, if registered (GBP10/year), gets in free.
>>
>> These little costs add up. (And UK fuel is about twice the price
>> of that retailed in the US.) Most USians have little notion how
>> comfy their driving life (still) is -- sorry, gang. :-(
>> --
>> Andrew Stephenson
>>[/color]
>
> In the US, you also qualify for a tax credit with the Hybrid. For a 06
> model it is $2600, which goes a long way toward making up the 4000
> premium.
>
> By the way, the dealer cut the premium for me to around $2500, but didn't
> discount the MSRP as much as he would have on a non-hybrid. I think the
> total result was that the hybrid was about $3000 to $3500 higher. The
> tax credit means that it cost me about $900 or less extra for the hybrid.
>
> DDD
>
>
>[/color]


Okay, so divide $900 by 0.0167, and you find that you need to go nearly
54,000 miles to recover the cost in fuel savings alone.

The point isn't that fuel saving is the only reason to buy hybrid, the point
is to determine what the costs and savings really are, then you can find the
return on investment (ROI). I illustrated a way to do that on fuel savings
alone, but I did not factor in all of the other kinds of savings first --
incentives that affect the purchase price, tax breaks, etc., etc.

Really? Who would pay $4,000 to ride in the HOV lane ;)


mike

"Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:oP-dndJmAaHdxsPYnZ2dnUVZ_rOdnZ2d@ez2.net...[color=blue]
> If gas costs $2.50 and you get 25mpg, then your fuel cost is $0.10 per
> mile. If the car gets 30mpg on the same gas, then your fuel cost is
> $0.0833 per mile. You save $0.0167 per mile. If the premium for hybrid
> cost $4,000, you would need to go 239,520 miles to break even. While the
> cost of gas might go up, the DIFFERENCE in the cost per mile of a standard
> car or truck and a hybrid will remain pertty much the same.
>
> Divide the cost of gas by the expected fuel mileage to find the Cost Per
> Mile. Do this for the standard model and the hybrid model. Now, subtract
> the cost per mile of the hybrid from the cost per mile of the standard
> model to find the difference -- fuel savings. Now, divide the premium you
> have to pay to get hybrid by the difference in the cost per mile. The
> result is the number of miles you have to go in order to recover the
> premium.
>
> This calculation ignores the added value of hybrid, like being able to
> drive in carpool lanes by yourself (if that is allowed where you travel).
>
>
>
>
> "Wingnut" <bigdogr@houston.rr.com> wrote in message[/color]

I don't know. But here in Calif., hybrid vehicles can go in the carpool lane
with a single occupant. I suspect that other than the draw to save time,
this is not a decision maker when buying a car.




"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:ILmcnV_Sn_Cq1MLYUSdV9g@ptd.net...[color=blue]
> Really? Who would pay $4,000 to ride in the HOV lane ;)
>
>
> mike
>
> "Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:oP-dndJmAaHdxsPYnZ2dnUVZ_rOdnZ2d@ez2.net...[color=green]
>> If gas costs $2.50 and you get 25mpg, then your fuel cost is $0.10 per
>> mile. If the car gets 30mpg on the same gas, then your fuel cost is
>> $0.0833 per mile. You save $0.0167 per mile. If the premium for hybrid
>> cost $4,000, you would need to go 239,520 miles to break even. While the
>> cost of gas might go up, the DIFFERENCE in the cost per mile of a
>> standard car or truck and a hybrid will remain pertty much the same.
>>
>> Divide the cost of gas by the expected fuel mileage to find the Cost Per
>> Mile. Do this for the standard model and the hybrid model. Now, subtract
>> the cost per mile of the hybrid from the cost per mile of the standard
>> model to find the difference -- fuel savings. Now, divide the premium you
>> have to pay to get hybrid by the difference in the cost per mile. The
>> result is the number of miles you have to go in order to recover the
>> premium.
>>
>> This calculation ignores the added value of hybrid, like being able to
>> drive in carpool lanes by yourself (if that is allowed where you travel).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Wingnut" <bigdogr@houston.rr.com> wrote in message[/color]
>
>[/color]

On Sat, 18 Nov 2006 12:55:49 -0500, "Mike Hunter"
<mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>Really? Who would pay $4,000 to ride in the HOV lane ;)
>
>
>mike[/color]

Some rich black dude driving a Pinto?

[color=blue]
>
>"Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:oP-dndJmAaHdxsPYnZ2dnUVZ_rOdnZ2d@ez2.net...[color=green]
>> If gas costs $2.50 and you get 25mpg, then your fuel cost is $0.10 per
>> mile. If the car gets 30mpg on the same gas, then your fuel cost is
>> $0.0833 per mile. You save $0.0167 per mile. If the premium for hybrid
>> cost $4,000, you would need to go 239,520 miles to break even. While the
>> cost of gas might go up, the DIFFERENCE in the cost per mile of a standard
>> car or truck and a hybrid will remain pertty much the same.
>>
>> Divide the cost of gas by the expected fuel mileage to find the Cost Per
>> Mile. Do this for the standard model and the hybrid model. Now, subtract
>> the cost per mile of the hybrid from the cost per mile of the standard
>> model to find the difference -- fuel savings. Now, divide the premium you
>> have to pay to get hybrid by the difference in the cost per mile. The
>> result is the number of miles you have to go in order to recover the
>> premium.
>>
>> This calculation ignores the added value of hybrid, like being able to
>> drive in carpool lanes by yourself (if that is allowed where you travel).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Wingnut" <bigdogr@houston.rr.com> wrote in message[/color]
>[/color]

--

Scott in Florida

Mike Hunter wrote:[color=blue]
> Really? Who would pay $4,000 to ride in the HOV lane ;)[/color]

anyone thats ever needed to go north on the 605 freeway between 3pm and 8pm.

Jeff Strickland wrote:
[color=blue]
>Okay, so divide $900 by 0.0167[/color]

What do you get when you divide 328 by 325, you clueless dumbshit?

You did the above calculation before, the the BMW group. I never did
understand, though, what it had to do with the reletive torque between
BMW's 2.8L and 2.5L engines, as you suggested at the time...

I mean, the BMW 328 came with a 2.8L engine, while the BMW 325 came
with a 2.5L engine, but what does the ratio 328 by 325 have to do with
anything?

Care to clarify, Jeffy?

"dizzy" <dizzy@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:pfbvl29jltg4lei4f9vhiaf95g07autfoe@4ax.com...[color=blue]
> Jeff Strickland wrote:
>[color=green]
>>Okay, so divide $900 by 0.0167[/color]
>
> What do you get when you divide 328 by 325, you clueless dumbshit?
>
> You did the above calculation before, the the BMW group. I never did
> understand, though, what it had to do with the reletive torque between
> BMW's 2.8L and 2.5L engines, as you suggested at the time...
>
> I mean, the BMW 328 came with a 2.8L engine, while the BMW 325 came
> with a 2.5L engine, but what does the ratio 328 by 325 have to do with
> anything?
>
> Care to clarify, Jeffy?[/color]


Me thinks you are confused. I can not clarify anything you say.

The 323 gets a 2.5L motor, the 328 gets a 2.8L motor. Since I have a Bentley
Publisher's manual that covers both of these engines, I can't imagine ever
suggesting anything to the contrary. I also have compression ratio specs and
the net HP if you want to know. By the way, both of these give more torque
than the 325.

Answer this Einstein, how do they get a 323 and a 328 to produce different
displacements using the same M52 motor?