camshaft timing marks 3a

Hello, I am new to this group. I am up to my elbows in 83 tercel. The
timing belt broke the other day. I am rotating the camshaft looking for
marks that line up. What am I looking for?
Also, I have not felt anything go bump. Is this indeed a
non-interferance engine?

On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 16:47:51 -0800, Larry wrote:
[color=blue]
> Hello, I am new to this group. I am up to my elbows in 83 tercel. The
> timing belt broke the other day. I am rotating the camshaft looking for
> marks that line up. What am I looking for?
> Also, I have not felt anything go bump. Is this indeed a
> non-interferance engine?[/color]

That is an Interference engine. Hopefully, the engine was idling when the
belt broke! There may be some chance it's OK if it was at idle.

The marks should be an arrow, a dot, or an indent on the crank shaft and
cam shaft. Be sure #1 is at TDC!

I think at this point I would remove the valve cover just to make sure
this is worth doing.

Interesting. I looked at [url]www.autozone.com[/url] for a timing belt and they do
NOT say it is an Interference engine. I had an '83 AWD Wagon and was told
by a Toyota tech that the engine WAS interference!

Oh, wait...upon further inspection:

Timing type and interval for a
1983 Toyota Tercel

Interference engine application
substantial and costly engine damage can occur if
belt breaks or slips.
It is recommended at every 60,000 miles or every 48
months to replace timing belt regardless of the
condition.



It IS interference. I would crack the Valve cover and have a look!

I will pop the valve cover tomorrow. And, no, I had my foot in it
getting onto the highway. Wish me luck.
Hachiroku ãƒ?ãƒ?ãƒ*ク wrote:[color=blue]
> On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 16:47:51 -0800, Larry wrote:
>[color=green]
> > Hello, I am new to this group. I am up to my elbows in 83 tercel. The
> > timing belt broke the other day. I am rotating the camshaft looking for
> > marks that line up. What am I looking for?
> > Also, I have not felt anything go bump. Is this indeed a
> > non-interferance engine?[/color]
>
> That is an Interference engine. Hopefully, the engine was idling when the
> belt broke! There may be some chance it's OK if it was at idle.
>
> The marks should be an arrow, a dot, or an indent on the crank shaft and
> cam shaft. Be sure #1 is at TDC!
>
> I think at this point I would remove the valve cover just to make sure
> this is worth doing.
>
> Interesting. I looked at [url]www.autozone.com[/url] for a timing belt and they do
> NOT say it is an Interference engine. I had an '83 AWD Wagon and was told
> by a Toyota tech that the engine WAS interference!
>
> Oh, wait...upon further inspection:
>
> Timing type and interval for a
> 1983 Toyota Tercel
>
> Interference engine application
> substantial and costly engine damage can occur if
> belt breaks or slips.
> It is recommended at every 60,000 miles or every 48
> months to replace timing belt regardless of the
> condition.
>
>
>
> It IS interference. I would crack the Valve cover and have a look![/color]

"Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
news:rl2fh.3303$Z67.2138@trndny02...[color=blue]
> On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 16:47:51 -0800, Larry wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Hello, I am new to this group. I am up to my elbows in 83 tercel. The
>> timing belt broke the other day. I am rotating the camshaft looking for
>> marks that line up. What am I looking for?
>> Also, I have not felt anything go bump. Is this indeed a
>> non-interferance engine?[/color]
>
> That is an Interference engine. Hopefully, the engine was idling when the
> belt broke! There may be some chance it's OK if it was at idle.
>
> The marks should be an arrow, a dot, or an indent on the crank shaft and
> cam shaft. Be sure #1 is at TDC!
>
> I think at this point I would remove the valve cover just to make sure
> this is worth doing.
>
> Interesting. I looked at [url]www.autozone.com[/url] for a timing belt and they do
> NOT say it is an Interference engine. I had an '83 AWD Wagon and was told
> by a Toyota tech that the engine WAS interference!
>
> Oh, wait...upon further inspection:
>
> Timing type and interval for a
> 1983 Toyota Tercel
>
> Interference engine application
> substantial and costly engine damage can occur if
> belt breaks or slips.
> It is recommended at every 60,000 miles or every 48
> months to replace timing belt regardless of the
> condition.
>
>
>
> It IS interference. I would crack the Valve cover and have a look![/color]

Went to the Gates website
@http://www.gates.com/brochure.cfm?brochure=2256&location_id=3487, and
clicked on the Timing Belt Replacement Guide. Although belt manufacure
suggests 60k mile changes, it does not have the " * " next to it indicating
it is an interference engine. Based on the Gates website, it is a
"non-interference" engine. He can breathe easy! Many Toys are
non-interference. Hondas on the other hand...

Hope this helps,
-Dave

On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 21:23:04 -0500, Dave L wrote:
[color=blue]
>
> "Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
> news:rl2fh.3303$Z67.2138@trndny02...[color=green]
>> On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 16:47:51 -0800, Larry wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>> Hello, I am new to this group. I am up to my elbows in 83 tercel. The
>>> timing belt broke the other day. I am rotating the camshaft looking for
>>> marks that line up. What am I looking for?
>>> Also, I have not felt anything go bump. Is this indeed a
>>> non-interferance engine?[/color]
>>
>> That is an Interference engine. Hopefully, the engine was idling when the
>> belt broke! There may be some chance it's OK if it was at idle.
>>
>> The marks should be an arrow, a dot, or an indent on the crank shaft and
>> cam shaft. Be sure #1 is at TDC!
>>
>> I think at this point I would remove the valve cover just to make sure
>> this is worth doing.
>>
>> Interesting. I looked at [url]www.autozone.com[/url] for a timing belt and they do
>> NOT say it is an Interference engine. I had an '83 AWD Wagon and was told
>> by a Toyota tech that the engine WAS interference!
>>
>> Oh, wait...upon further inspection:
>>
>> Timing type and interval for a
>> 1983 Toyota Tercel
>>
>> Interference engine application
>> substantial and costly engine damage can occur if
>> belt breaks or slips.
>> It is recommended at every 60,000 miles or every 48
>> months to replace timing belt regardless of the
>> condition.
>>
>>
>>
>> It IS interference. I would crack the Valve cover and have a look![/color]
>
> Went to the Gates website
> @http://www.gates.com/brochure.cfm?brochure=2256&location_id=3487, and
> clicked on the Timing Belt Replacement Guide. Although belt manufacure
> suggests 60k mile changes, it does not have the " * " next to it indicating
> it is an interference engine. Based on the Gates website, it is a
> "non-interference" engine. He can breathe easy! Many Toys are
> non-interference. Hondas on the other hand...
>
> Hope this helps,
> -Dave[/color]


Yeah, I know. Gates says no, but Toyota and AZ say yes.
This has been a mystery that has plagued this group for ages!

On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 18:08:18 -0800, Larry wrote:
[color=blue]
> I will pop the valve cover tomorrow. And, no, I had my foot in it
> getting onto the highway. Wish me luck.[/color]


Oh, dear...
Good luck. But, before popping the cover, I would wait for Ray O, or if
you're lucky, Ray O AND Qslim to weigh in. I'm just a hack. Those guys are
for real! (Ray was a Factory Rep, and qslim, until recently was an MDT for
Toyota...)


[color=blue]
> Hachiroku ãƒ?ãƒ?ãƒ*ク wrote:[color=green]
>> On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 16:47:51 -0800, Larry wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>> > Hello, I am new to this group. I am up to my elbows in 83 tercel. The
>> > timing belt broke the other day. I am rotating the camshaft looking for
>> > marks that line up. What am I looking for?
>> > Also, I have not felt anything go bump. Is this indeed a
>> > non-interferance engine?[/color]
>>
>> That is an Interference engine. Hopefully, the engine was idling when the
>> belt broke! There may be some chance it's OK if it was at idle.
>>
>> The marks should be an arrow, a dot, or an indent on the crank shaft and
>> cam shaft. Be sure #1 is at TDC!
>>
>> I think at this point I would remove the valve cover just to make sure
>> this is worth doing.
>>
>> Interesting. I looked at [url]www.autozone.com[/url] for a timing belt and they do
>> NOT say it is an Interference engine. I had an '83 AWD Wagon and was told
>> by a Toyota tech that the engine WAS interference!
>>
>> Oh, wait...upon further inspection:
>>
>> Timing type and interval for a
>> 1983 Toyota Tercel
>>
>> Interference engine application
>> substantial and costly engine damage can occur if
>> belt breaks or slips.
>> It is recommended at every 60,000 miles or every 48
>> months to replace timing belt regardless of the
>> condition.
>>
>>
>>
>> It IS interference. I would crack the Valve cover and have a look![/color][/color]

"Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
news:lR3fh.4105$IG6.1739@trndny01...[color=blue]
> On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 21:23:04 -0500, Dave L wrote:
>[color=green]
>>
>> "Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
>> news:rl2fh.3303$Z67.2138@trndny02...[color=darkred]
>>> On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 16:47:51 -0800, Larry wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello, I am new to this group. I am up to my elbows in 83 tercel. The
>>>> timing belt broke the other day. I am rotating the camshaft looking for
>>>> marks that line up. What am I looking for?
>>>> Also, I have not felt anything go bump. Is this indeed a
>>>> non-interferance engine?
>>>
>>> That is an Interference engine. Hopefully, the engine was idling when
>>> the
>>> belt broke! There may be some chance it's OK if it was at idle.
>>>
>>> The marks should be an arrow, a dot, or an indent on the crank shaft and
>>> cam shaft. Be sure #1 is at TDC!
>>>
>>> I think at this point I would remove the valve cover just to make sure
>>> this is worth doing.
>>>
>>> Interesting. I looked at [url]www.autozone.com[/url] for a timing belt and they do
>>> NOT say it is an Interference engine. I had an '83 AWD Wagon and was
>>> told
>>> by a Toyota tech that the engine WAS interference!
>>>
>>> Oh, wait...upon further inspection:
>>>
>>> Timing type and interval for a
>>> 1983 Toyota Tercel
>>>
>>> Interference engine application
>>> substantial and costly engine damage can occur if
>>> belt breaks or slips.
>>> It is recommended at every 60,000 miles or every 48
>>> months to replace timing belt regardless of the
>>> condition.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It IS interference. I would crack the Valve cover and have a look![/color]
>>
>> Went to the Gates website
>> @http://www.gates.com/brochure.cfm?brochure=2256&location_id=3487, and
>> clicked on the Timing Belt Replacement Guide. Although belt manufacure
>> suggests 60k mile changes, it does not have the " * " next to it
>> indicating
>> it is an interference engine. Based on the Gates website, it is a
>> "non-interference" engine. He can breathe easy! Many Toys are
>> non-interference. Hondas on the other hand...
>>
>> Hope this helps,
>> -Dave[/color]
>
>
> Yeah, I know. Gates says no, but Toyota and AZ say yes.
> This has been a mystery that has plagued this group for ages![/color]

If Toyota says yes, I'd go with that. What better resource than the people
who designed it!

"Larry" <larry_balogh@msn.com> wrote in message
news:1165798071.583048.294760@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
> Hello, I am new to this group. I am up to my elbows in 83 tercel. The
> timing belt broke the other day. I am rotating the camshaft looking for
> marks that line up. What am I looking for?
> Also, I have not felt anything go bump. Is this indeed a
> non-interferance engine?
>[/color]

It has been around 15 years since I looked at the innards of one of those
engines. Set #1 cylinder to TDC compression. There should be a line on the
outside of one of the teeth on the camshaft pulley. Rotate the camshaft so
that the line is pointing straight up and lines up with a notch on the head.

As a general rule, Toyotas with timing belts are non-interference and those
with chains are interference, but I think the 3A engine was an exception to
that rule.

Before you install the timing belt, see if you can rotate the camshaft
freely. If it jams, then you will have to pull the head to check the
valves.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

"Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
news:6T3fh.4106$IG6.1475@trndny01...[color=blue]
> On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 18:08:18 -0800, Larry wrote:
>[color=green]
>> I will pop the valve cover tomorrow. And, no, I had my foot in it
>> getting onto the highway. Wish me luck.[/color]
>
>
> Oh, dear...
> Good luck. But, before popping the cover, I would wait for Ray O, or if
> you're lucky, Ray O AND Qslim to weigh in. I'm just a hack. Those guys are
> for real! (Ray was a Factory Rep, and qslim, until recently was an MDT for
> Toyota...)
>[/color]

I guess I should have kept all those factory repair manuals I left behind -
Every factory service manual for every Toyota from 1983 - 1993, including
wiring diagrams, New Model Features, and TSB's :-(
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

I will pull the valve cover to help insure proper cam timing. Maybe
then I will recognize the marks on the camshaft. The camshaft plops
over evenly. I am going to put a belt on it and do a quick compression
check, soon as it stops raining. Thanks all, and I will keep you
informed.

Ray O wrote:[color=blue]
> "Larry" <larry_balogh@msn.com> wrote in message
> news:1165798071.583048.294760@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com...[color=green]
> > Hello, I am new to this group. I am up to my elbows in 83 tercel. The
> > timing belt broke the other day. I am rotating the camshaft looking for
> > marks that line up. What am I looking for?
> > Also, I have not felt anything go bump. Is this indeed a
> > non-interferance engine?
> >[/color]
>
> It has been around 15 years since I looked at the innards of one of those
> engines. Set #1 cylinder to TDC compression. There should be a line on the
> outside of one of the teeth on the camshaft pulley. Rotate the camshaft so
> that the line is pointing straight up and lines up with a notch on the head.
>
> As a general rule, Toyotas with timing belts are non-interference and those
> with chains are interference, but I think the 3A engine was an exception to
> that rule.
>
> Before you install the timing belt, see if you can rotate the camshaft
> freely. If it jams, then you will have to pull the head to check the
> valves.
> --
>
> Ray O
> (correct punctuation to reply)[/color]

On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 00:58:01 -0600, Ray O wrote:
[color=blue]
>
> "Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
> news:6T3fh.4106$IG6.1475@trndny01...[color=green]
>> On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 18:08:18 -0800, Larry wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>> I will pop the valve cover tomorrow. And, no, I had my foot in it
>>> getting onto the highway. Wish me luck.[/color]
>>
>>
>> Oh, dear...
>> Good luck. But, before popping the cover, I would wait for Ray O, or if
>> you're lucky, Ray O AND Qslim to weigh in. I'm just a hack. Those guys are
>> for real! (Ray was a Factory Rep, and qslim, until recently was an MDT for
>> Toyota...)
>>[/color]
>
> I guess I should have kept all those factory repair manuals I left behind -
> Every factory service manual for every Toyota from 1983 - 1993, including
> wiring diagrams, New Model Features, and TSB's :-([/color]

Um...YEAH!! ;)

"Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
news:Rmlfh.1278$e26.282@trndny04...[color=blue]
> On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 00:58:01 -0600, Ray O wrote:
>[color=green]
>>
>> "Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
>> news:6T3fh.4106$IG6.1475@trndny01...[color=darkred]
>>> On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 18:08:18 -0800, Larry wrote:
>>>
>>>> I will pop the valve cover tomorrow. And, no, I had my foot in it
>>>> getting onto the highway. Wish me luck.
>>>
>>>
>>> Oh, dear...
>>> Good luck. But, before popping the cover, I would wait for Ray O, or if
>>> you're lucky, Ray O AND Qslim to weigh in. I'm just a hack. Those guys
>>> are
>>> for real! (Ray was a Factory Rep, and qslim, until recently was an MDT
>>> for
>>> Toyota...)
>>>[/color]
>>
>> I guess I should have kept all those factory repair manuals I left
>> behind -
>> Every factory service manual for every Toyota from 1983 - 1993, including
>> wiring diagrams, New Model Features, and TSB's :-([/color]
>
> Um...YEAH!! ;)
>[/color]

Nobody ever accused me of having foresight!
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

Started the car up today! I played with rotating the crank with the cam
in different positions. I do not believe that this is an interference
engine. Thanks to all.

Ray O wrote:[color=blue]
> "Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
> news:Rmlfh.1278$e26.282@trndny04...[color=green]
> > On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 00:58:01 -0600, Ray O wrote:
> >[color=darkred]
> >>
> >> "Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
> >> news:6T3fh.4106$IG6.1475@trndny01...
> >>> On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 18:08:18 -0800, Larry wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I will pop the valve cover tomorrow. And, no, I had my foot in it
> >>>> getting onto the highway. Wish me luck.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Oh, dear...
> >>> Good luck. But, before popping the cover, I would wait for Ray O, or if
> >>> you're lucky, Ray O AND Qslim to weigh in. I'm just a hack. Those guys
> >>> are
> >>> for real! (Ray was a Factory Rep, and qslim, until recently was an MDT
> >>> for
> >>> Toyota...)
> >>>
> >>
> >> I guess I should have kept all those factory repair manuals I left
> >> behind -
> >> Every factory service manual for every Toyota from 1983 - 1993, including
> >> wiring diagrams, New Model Features, and TSB's :-([/color]
> >
> > Um...YEAH!! ;)
> >[/color]
>
> Nobody ever accused me of having foresight!
> --
>
> Ray O
> (correct punctuation to reply)[/color]

On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 01:38:06 -0800, Larry wrote:
[color=blue]
> Started the car up today! I played with rotating the crank with the cam
> in different positions. I do not believe that this is an interference
> engine. Thanks to all.[/color]


Congrats! Did you do the belt yourself?

The 4WD wagon was a weird car. The engine was North-South, and had an
extra 'pumpkin' in the front. The timing belt was real easy to get at,
since it had an electric fan and the front of the engine was open.


[color=blue]
>
> Ray O wrote:[color=green]
>> "Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
>> news:Rmlfh.1278$e26.282@trndny04...[color=darkred]
>> > On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 00:58:01 -0600, Ray O wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> "Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
>> >> news:6T3fh.4106$IG6.1475@trndny01...
>> >>> On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 18:08:18 -0800, Larry wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> I will pop the valve cover tomorrow. And, no, I had my foot in it
>> >>>> getting onto the highway. Wish me luck.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Oh, dear...
>> >>> Good luck. But, before popping the cover, I would wait for Ray O, or if
>> >>> you're lucky, Ray O AND Qslim to weigh in. I'm just a hack. Those guys
>> >>> are
>> >>> for real! (Ray was a Factory Rep, and qslim, until recently was an MDT
>> >>> for
>> >>> Toyota...)
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> I guess I should have kept all those factory repair manuals I left
>> >> behind -
>> >> Every factory service manual for every Toyota from 1983 - 1993, including
>> >> wiring diagrams, New Model Features, and TSB's :-(
>> >
>> > Um...YEAH!! ;)
>> >[/color]
>>
>> Nobody ever accused me of having foresight!
>> --
>>
>> Ray O
>> (correct punctuation to reply)[/color][/color]

Doing the belt was not very difficult. Removing the radiator gave me
plenty of room. I could probably do one now in less than two hours. I
doubt I will have the opportunity, the last one lasted 195,000 mi. The
engine is using more oil these days, 500-600 mi. to the quart,
compression on the cylinders is in the low to mid 90's. I was ready to
let it go if the repair was much more involved. I use it now to take
two Labs out to play. It works well on slippery unpaved roads taking
tired, muddy dogs home.


Hachiroku ãƒ?ãƒ?ãƒ*ク wrote:[color=blue]
> On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 01:38:06 -0800, Larry wrote:
>[color=green]
> > Started the car up today! I played with rotating the crank with the cam
> > in different positions. I do not believe that this is an interference
> > engine. Thanks to all.[/color]
>
>
> Congrats! Did you do the belt yourself?
>
> The 4WD wagon was a weird car. The engine was North-South, and had an
> extra 'pumpkin' in the front. The timing belt was real easy to get at,
> since it had an electric fan and the front of the engine was open.
>
>
>[color=green]
> >
> > Ray O wrote:[color=darkred]
> >> "Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
> >> news:Rmlfh.1278$e26.282@trndny04...
> >> > On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 00:58:01 -0600, Ray O wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> "Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
> >> >> news:6T3fh.4106$IG6.1475@trndny01...
> >> >>> On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 18:08:18 -0800, Larry wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> I will pop the valve cover tomorrow. And, no, I had my foot in it
> >> >>>> getting onto the highway. Wish me luck.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Oh, dear...
> >> >>> Good luck. But, before popping the cover, I would wait for Ray O, or if
> >> >>> you're lucky, Ray O AND Qslim to weigh in. I'm just a hack. Those guys
> >> >>> are
> >> >>> for real! (Ray was a Factory Rep, and qslim, until recently was anMDT
> >> >>> for
> >> >>> Toyota...)
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >> I guess I should have kept all those factory repair manuals I left
> >> >> behind -
> >> >> Every factory service manual for every Toyota from 1983 - 1993, including
> >> >> wiring diagrams, New Model Features, and TSB's :-(
> >> >
> >> > Um...YEAH!! ;)
> >> >
> >>
> >> Nobody ever accused me of having foresight!
> >> --
> >>
> >> Ray O
> >> (correct punctuation to reply)[/color][/color][/color]