'93 Corolla DX Wagon starting problems

When it's cold, I'm starting to get some contact problems with turning the
engine over. I have to do it a few times to get the starter motor going.
Solenoid?

I think the mechanic that I asked about it, may be trying to blow smoke up
my skirt because I'm a woman, saying it's the starter motor that "has a
flat spot on the armature" ( yeah right ), and could cost $600! But
doesn't it sound like a little old starter solenoid contact or something,
which could cost a lot less?

We had a similar issue on a '97 DX, but it intermittently failed to start
when warm outside. Dealer replaced the solenoid and it has been fine since
then.

"Angela Marsh" <Angela@Southpark.Dis> wrote in news:
Xns98A251D6D9CFBVoiceFreedomfreedomn@216.196.97.142...[color=blue]
> When it's cold, I'm starting to get some contact problems with turning the
> engine over. I have to do it a few times to get the starter motor going.
> Solenoid?
>
> I think the mechanic that I asked about it, may be trying to blow smoke up
> my skirt because I'm a woman, saying it's the starter motor that "has a
> flat spot on the armature" ( yeah right ), and could cost $600! But
> doesn't it sound like a little old starter solenoid contact or something,
> which could cost a lot less?
>
>[/color]

"Angela Marsh" <Angela@Southpark.Dis> wrote in message
news:Xns98A251D6D9CFBVoiceFreedomfreedomn@216.196.97.142...[color=blue]
> When it's cold, I'm starting to get some contact problems with turning the
> engine over. I have to do it a few times to get the starter motor going.
> Solenoid?
>
> I think the mechanic that I asked about it, may be trying to blow smoke up
> my skirt because I'm a woman, saying it's the starter motor that "has a
> flat spot on the armature" ( yeah right ), and could cost $600! But
> doesn't it sound like a little old starter solenoid contact or something,
> which could cost a lot less?
>[/color]
It is possible that the contacts on the starter solenoid are worn and need
replacement. If inspection of the solenoid shows worn or damaged
contact, the contacts are available as replacement parts (at least in the
U.S.). If you cannot get replacement contacts, then you may have to replace
the starter solenoid or entire starter.

A flat spot on the armature is a possibility but not a common problem on
Toyota starters.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

On Sat, 23 Dec 2006 09:02:38 -0600, Angela Marsh
<Angela@Southpark.Dis> wrote:
[color=blue]
>When it's cold, I'm starting to get some contact problems with turning the
>engine over. I have to do it a few times to get the starter motor going.
>Solenoid?
>
>I think the mechanic that I asked about it, may be trying to blow smoke up
>my skirt because I'm a woman, saying it's the starter motor that "has a
>flat spot on the armature" ( yeah right ), and could cost $600! But
>doesn't it sound like a little old starter solenoid contact or something,
>which could cost a lot less?
>[/color]
Some ideas here.... [url]http://www.off-road.com/toyota/tech/starter/[/url]

"Ghislain" <ghislaing@teksavvyDOTcom> wrote :
[color=blue]
> We had a similar issue on a '97 DX, but it intermittently failed to
> start when warm outside. Dealer replaced the solenoid and it has been
> fine since then.
>
> "Angela Marsh" <Angela@Southpark.Dis> wrote in news:
> Xns98A251D6D9CFBVoiceFreedomfreedomn@216.196.97.142...[color=green]
>> When it's cold, I'm starting to get some contact problems with
>> turning the engine over. I have to do it a few times to get the
>> starter motor going. Solenoid?
>>
>> I think the mechanic that I asked about it, may be trying to blow
>> smoke up my skirt because I'm a woman, saying it's the starter motor
>> that "has a flat spot on the armature" ( yeah right ), and could
>> cost $600! But doesn't it sound like a little old starter solenoid
>> contact or something, which could cost a lot less?
>>[/color][/color]

This mostly does it when cold, and when it's warmed up, it starts right
up.

"Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote :
[color=blue]
>
> "Angela Marsh" <Angela@Southpark.Dis> wrote in message
> news:Xns98A251D6D9CFBVoiceFreedomfreedomn@216.196.97.142...[color=green]
>> When it's cold, I'm starting to get some contact problems with
>> turning the engine over. I have to do it a few times to get the
>> starter motor going. Solenoid?
>>
>> I think the mechanic that I asked about it, may be trying to blow
>> smoke up my skirt because I'm a woman, saying it's the starter motor
>> that "has a flat spot on the armature" ( yeah right ), and could
>> cost $600! But doesn't it sound like a little old starter solenoid
>> contact or something, which could cost a lot less?
>>[/color]
> It is possible that the contacts on the starter solenoid are worn and
> need replacement. If inspection of the solenoid shows worn or
> damaged contact, the contacts are available as replacement parts (at
> least in the U.S.). If you cannot get replacement contacts, then you
> may have to replace the starter solenoid or entire starter.
>
> A flat spot on the armature is a possibility but not a common problem
> on Toyota starters.[/color]

It makes no sense to me, unless the car's been hit or something.

"Angela Marsh" <Angela@Southpark.Dis> wrote in message
news:Xns98A2C0ADAEE35VoiceFreedomfreedomn@216.196.97.142...[color=blue]
> "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote :
>[color=green]
>>
>> "Angela Marsh" <Angela@Southpark.Dis> wrote in message
>> news:Xns98A251D6D9CFBVoiceFreedomfreedomn@216.196.97.142...[color=darkred]
>>> When it's cold, I'm starting to get some contact problems with
>>> turning the engine over. I have to do it a few times to get the
>>> starter motor going. Solenoid?
>>>
>>> I think the mechanic that I asked about it, may be trying to blow
>>> smoke up my skirt because I'm a woman, saying it's the starter motor
>>> that "has a flat spot on the armature" ( yeah right ), and could
>>> cost $600! But doesn't it sound like a little old starter solenoid
>>> contact or something, which could cost a lot less?
>>>[/color]
>> It is possible that the contacts on the starter solenoid are worn and
>> need replacement. If inspection of the solenoid shows worn or
>> damaged contact, the contacts are available as replacement parts (at
>> least in the U.S.). If you cannot get replacement contacts, then you
>> may have to replace the starter solenoid or entire starter.
>>
>> A flat spot on the armature is a possibility but not a common problem
>> on Toyota starters.[/color]
>
> It makes no sense to me, unless the car's been hit or something.
>[/color]
What doesn't make sense? The solenoid or the armature?
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

"Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote :
[color=blue]
>
> "Angela Marsh" <Angela@Southpark.Dis> wrote in message
> news:Xns98A2C0ADAEE35VoiceFreedomfreedomn@216.196.97.142...[color=green]
>> "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote :
>>[color=darkred]
>>>
>>> "Angela Marsh" <Angela@Southpark.Dis> wrote in message
>>> news:Xns98A251D6D9CFBVoiceFreedomfreedomn@216.196.97.142...
>>>> When it's cold, I'm starting to get some contact problems with
>>>> turning the engine over. I have to do it a few times to get the
>>>> starter motor going. Solenoid?
>>>>
>>>> I think the mechanic that I asked about it, may be trying to blow
>>>> smoke up my skirt because I'm a woman, saying it's the starter[/color][/color][/color]
motor[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>>> that "has a flat spot on the armature" ( yeah right ), and could
>>>> cost $600! But doesn't it sound like a little old starter solenoid
>>>> contact or something, which could cost a lot less?
>>>>
>>> It is possible that the contacts on the starter solenoid are worn[/color][/color][/color]
and[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>> need replacement. If inspection of the solenoid shows worn or
>>> damaged contact, the contacts are available as replacement parts (at
>>> least in the U.S.). If you cannot get replacement contacts, then[/color][/color][/color]
you[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>> may have to replace the starter solenoid or entire starter.
>>>
>>> A flat spot on the armature is a possibility but not a common[/color][/color][/color]
problem[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>> on Toyota starters.[/color]
>>
>> It makes no sense to me, unless the car's been hit or something.
>>[/color]
> What doesn't make sense? The solenoid or the armature?[/color]

That an armature could suddenly develop a "flat spot".

It seems pretty obvious that it's a solenoid contact.

"Angela Marsh" <Angela@Southpark.Dis> wrote in message
news:Xns98A2D32C3A581VoiceFreedomfreedomn@216.196.97.142...[color=blue]
> "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote :
>[color=green]
>>
>> "Angela Marsh" <Angela@Southpark.Dis> wrote in message
>> news:Xns98A2C0ADAEE35VoiceFreedomfreedomn@216.196.97.142...[color=darkred]
>>> "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote :
>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Angela Marsh" <Angela@Southpark.Dis> wrote in message
>>>> news:Xns98A251D6D9CFBVoiceFreedomfreedomn@216.196.97.142...
>>>>> When it's cold, I'm starting to get some contact problems with
>>>>> turning the engine over. I have to do it a few times to get the
>>>>> starter motor going. Solenoid?
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the mechanic that I asked about it, may be trying to blow
>>>>> smoke up my skirt because I'm a woman, saying it's the starter[/color][/color]
> motor[color=green][color=darkred]
>>>>> that "has a flat spot on the armature" ( yeah right ), and could
>>>>> cost $600! But doesn't it sound like a little old starter solenoid
>>>>> contact or something, which could cost a lot less?
>>>>>
>>>> It is possible that the contacts on the starter solenoid are worn[/color][/color]
> and[color=green][color=darkred]
>>>> need replacement. If inspection of the solenoid shows worn or
>>>> damaged contact, the contacts are available as replacement parts (at
>>>> least in the U.S.). If you cannot get replacement contacts, then[/color][/color]
> you[color=green][color=darkred]
>>>> may have to replace the starter solenoid or entire starter.
>>>>
>>>> A flat spot on the armature is a possibility but not a common[/color][/color]
> problem[color=green][color=darkred]
>>>> on Toyota starters.
>>>
>>> It makes no sense to me, unless the car's been hit or something.
>>>[/color]
>> What doesn't make sense? The solenoid or the armature?[/color]
>
> That an armature could suddenly develop a "flat spot".
>
> It seems pretty obvious that it's a solenoid contact.
>[/color]

Armatures generally do not suddenly develop flat spots, but they can wear
unevenly over time. The first time the armature loses contact and the
starter does not work, it will seem like a sudden appearance of a problem.

In Toyotas, a bad solenoid contact is the most common cause of the condition
you are describing, but it is not the only possible cause.

In other cars, a bad starter is a more common cause of that condition, which
is probably why your mechanic came up with that diagnosis.

One of the things that makes Toyotas easy to work on is that they are built
very consistently and have few one-of-a kind problems. The downside to that
consistency is that if there is a weak spot in the design, assembly process,
or material, almost every vehicle will eventually develop the same problem.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

"Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote :
[color=blue]
>
> "Angela Marsh" <Angela@Southpark.Dis> wrote in message
> news:Xns98A2D32C3A581VoiceFreedomfreedomn@216.196.97.142...[color=green]
>> "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote :
>>[color=darkred]
>>>
>>> "Angela Marsh" <Angela@Southpark.Dis> wrote in message
>>> news:Xns98A2C0ADAEE35VoiceFreedomfreedomn@216.196.97.142...
>>>> "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote :
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Angela Marsh" <Angela@Southpark.Dis> wrote in message
>>>>> news:Xns98A251D6D9CFBVoiceFreedomfreedomn@216.196.97.142...
>>>>>> When it's cold, I'm starting to get some contact problems with
>>>>>> turning the engine over. I have to do it a few times to get the
>>>>>> starter motor going. Solenoid?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think the mechanic that I asked about it, may be trying to
>>>>>> blow smoke up my skirt because I'm a woman, saying it's the
>>>>>> starter[/color]
>> motor[color=darkred]
>>>>>> that "has a flat spot on the armature" ( yeah right ), and could
>>>>>> cost $600! But doesn't it sound like a little old starter
>>>>>> solenoid contact or something, which could cost a lot less?
>>>>>>
>>>>> It is possible that the contacts on the starter solenoid are worn[/color]
>> and[color=darkred]
>>>>> need replacement. If inspection of the solenoid shows worn or
>>>>> damaged contact, the contacts are available as replacement parts
>>>>> (at least in the U.S.). If you cannot get replacement contacts,
>>>>> then[/color]
>> you[color=darkred]
>>>>> may have to replace the starter solenoid or entire starter.
>>>>>
>>>>> A flat spot on the armature is a possibility but not a common[/color]
>> problem[color=darkred]
>>>>> on Toyota starters.
>>>>
>>>> It makes no sense to me, unless the car's been hit or something.
>>>>
>>> What doesn't make sense? The solenoid or the armature?[/color]
>>
>> That an armature could suddenly develop a "flat spot".
>>
>> It seems pretty obvious that it's a solenoid contact.
>>[/color]
>
> Armatures generally do not suddenly develop flat spots, but they can
> wear unevenly over time. The first time the armature loses contact
> and the starter does not work, it will seem like a sudden appearance
> of a problem.
>
> In Toyotas, a bad solenoid contact is the most common cause of the
> condition you are describing, but it is not the only possible cause.
>
> In other cars, a bad starter is a more common cause of that
> condition, which is probably why your mechanic came up with that
> diagnosis.[/color]

He's at Midas. I haven't ever gone to them for repairs and just started
going to them for an oil change recently, but if I recall, they're the
kind of place that likes to replace the whole brake system instead of
just what needs it. Maybe they're the same with the starter motor. Hey,
they can fool a woman and charge $600 for the whole thing, right?
[color=blue]
> One of the things that makes Toyotas easy to work on is that they are
> built very consistently and have few one-of-a kind problems. The
> downside to that consistency is that if there is a weak spot in the
> design, assembly process, or material, almost every vehicle will
> eventually develop the same problem.[/color]

This is THE most reliable car we've ever owned, so far anyway. It has
139,000 miles on it.

"Angela Marsh" <Angela@Southpark.Dis> wrote in message
news:Xns98A3CFD4D9265VoiceFreedomfreedomn@216.196.97.142...[color=blue]
> "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote :
>[color=green]
>>
>> "Angela Marsh" <Angela@Southpark.Dis> wrote in message
>> news:Xns98A2D32C3A581VoiceFreedomfreedomn@216.196.97.142...[color=darkred]
>>> "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote :
>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Angela Marsh" <Angela@Southpark.Dis> wrote in message
>>>> news:Xns98A2C0ADAEE35VoiceFreedomfreedomn@216.196.97.142...
>>>>> "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote :
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Angela Marsh" <Angela@Southpark.Dis> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:Xns98A251D6D9CFBVoiceFreedomfreedomn@216.196.97.142...
>>>>>>> When it's cold, I'm starting to get some contact problems with
>>>>>>> turning the engine over. I have to do it a few times to get the
>>>>>>> starter motor going. Solenoid?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think the mechanic that I asked about it, may be trying to
>>>>>>> blow smoke up my skirt because I'm a woman, saying it's the
>>>>>>> starter
>>> motor
>>>>>>> that "has a flat spot on the armature" ( yeah right ), and could
>>>>>>> cost $600! But doesn't it sound like a little old starter
>>>>>>> solenoid contact or something, which could cost a lot less?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is possible that the contacts on the starter solenoid are worn
>>> and
>>>>>> need replacement. If inspection of the solenoid shows worn or
>>>>>> damaged contact, the contacts are available as replacement parts
>>>>>> (at least in the U.S.). If you cannot get replacement contacts,
>>>>>> then
>>> you
>>>>>> may have to replace the starter solenoid or entire starter.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A flat spot on the armature is a possibility but not a common
>>> problem
>>>>>> on Toyota starters.
>>>>>
>>>>> It makes no sense to me, unless the car's been hit or something.
>>>>>
>>>> What doesn't make sense? The solenoid or the armature?
>>>
>>> That an armature could suddenly develop a "flat spot".
>>>
>>> It seems pretty obvious that it's a solenoid contact.
>>>[/color]
>>
>> Armatures generally do not suddenly develop flat spots, but they can
>> wear unevenly over time. The first time the armature loses contact
>> and the starter does not work, it will seem like a sudden appearance
>> of a problem.
>>
>> In Toyotas, a bad solenoid contact is the most common cause of the
>> condition you are describing, but it is not the only possible cause.
>>
>> In other cars, a bad starter is a more common cause of that
>> condition, which is probably why your mechanic came up with that
>> diagnosis.[/color]
>
> He's at Midas. I haven't ever gone to them for repairs and just started
> going to them for an oil change recently, but if I recall, they're the
> kind of place that likes to replace the whole brake system instead of
> just what needs it. Maybe they're the same with the starter motor. Hey,
> they can fool a woman and charge $600 for the whole thing, right?
>[color=green]
>> One of the things that makes Toyotas easy to work on is that they are
>> built very consistently and have few one-of-a kind problems. The
>> downside to that consistency is that if there is a weak spot in the
>> design, assembly process, or material, almost every vehicle will
>> eventually develop the same problem.[/color]
>
> This is THE most reliable car we've ever owned, so far anyway. It has
> 139,000 miles on it.
>[/color]

Midas is not high on my list of recommended repair facilities, even for
mufflers. ;-)
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

On Sun, 24 Dec 2006 21:25:44 -0600, Angela Marsh wrote:
[color=blue]
> "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote :
>
>[color=green]
>> "Angela Marsh" <Angela@Southpark.Dis> wrote in message
>> news:Xns98A2D32C3A581VoiceFreedomfreedomn@216.196.97.142...[color=darkred]
>>> "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote :
>>>
>>>
>>>> "Angela Marsh" <Angela@Southpark.Dis> wrote in message
>>>> news:Xns98A2C0ADAEE35VoiceFreedomfreedomn@216.196.97.142...
>>>>> "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote :
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Angela Marsh" <Angela@Southpark.Dis> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:Xns98A251D6D9CFBVoiceFreedomfreedomn@216.196.97.142...
>>>>>>> When it's cold, I'm starting to get some contact problems with
>>>>>>> turning the engine over. I have to do it a few times to get the
>>>>>>> starter motor going. Solenoid?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think the mechanic that I asked about it, may be trying to blow
>>>>>>> smoke up my skirt because I'm a woman, saying it's the starter
>>> motor
>>>>>>> that "has a flat spot on the armature" ( yeah right ), and could
>>>>>>> cost $600! But doesn't it sound like a little old starter solenoid
>>>>>>> contact or something, which could cost a lot less?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is possible that the contacts on the starter solenoid are worn
>>> and
>>>>>> need replacement. If inspection of the solenoid shows worn or
>>>>>> damaged contact, the contacts are available as replacement parts (at
>>>>>> least in the U.S.). If you cannot get replacement contacts, then
>>> you
>>>>>> may have to replace the starter solenoid or entire starter.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A flat spot on the armature is a possibility but not a common
>>> problem
>>>>>> on Toyota starters.
>>>>>
>>>>> It makes no sense to me, unless the car's been hit or something.
>>>>>
>>>> What doesn't make sense? The solenoid or the armature?
>>>
>>> That an armature could suddenly develop a "flat spot".
>>>
>>> It seems pretty obvious that it's a solenoid contact.
>>>
>>>[/color]
>> Armatures generally do not suddenly develop flat spots, but they can
>> wear unevenly over time. The first time the armature loses contact and
>> the starter does not work, it will seem like a sudden appearance of a
>> problem.
>>
>> In Toyotas, a bad solenoid contact is the most common cause of the
>> condition you are describing, but it is not the only possible cause.
>>
>> In other cars, a bad starter is a more common cause of that condition,
>> which is probably why your mechanic came up with that diagnosis.[/color]
>
> He's at Midas. I haven't ever gone to them for repairs and just started
> going to them for an oil change recently, but if I recall, they're the
> kind of place that likes to replace the whole brake system instead of just
> what needs it. Maybe they're the same with the starter motor. Hey, they
> can fool a woman and charge $600 for the whole thing, right?
>[color=green]
>> One of the things that makes Toyotas easy to work on is that they are
>> built very consistently and have few one-of-a kind problems. The
>> downside to that consistency is that if there is a weak spot in the
>> design, assembly process, or material, almost every vehicle will
>> eventually develop the same problem.[/color]
>
> This is THE most reliable car we've ever owned, so far anyway. It has
> 139,000 miles on it.[/color]


Wow...that's NOTHING! It's good for another 100,000 with proper care.

Take the car to a place that does electrical work as their main business,
and have them rebuild the starter. You can get one from Toyota for $2-400,
but replacing the contacts is fairly easy and should be <$100.

"Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote :
[color=blue]
>
> "Angela Marsh" <Angela@Southpark.Dis> wrote in message
> news:Xns98A3CFD4D9265VoiceFreedomfreedomn@216.196.97.142...[color=green]
>> "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote :
>>[color=darkred]
>>>
>>> "Angela Marsh" <Angela@Southpark.Dis> wrote in message
>>> news:Xns98A2D32C3A581VoiceFreedomfreedomn@216.196.97.142...
>>>> "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote :
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Angela Marsh" <Angela@Southpark.Dis> wrote in message
>>>>> news:Xns98A2C0ADAEE35VoiceFreedomfreedomn@216.196.97.142...
>>>>>> "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote :
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Angela Marsh" <Angela@Southpark.Dis> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:Xns98A251D6D9CFBVoiceFreedomfreedomn@216.196.97.142...
>>>>>>>> When it's cold, I'm starting to get some contact problems with
>>>>>>>> turning the engine over. I have to do it a few times to get the
>>>>>>>> starter motor going. Solenoid?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think the mechanic that I asked about it, may be trying to
>>>>>>>> blow smoke up my skirt because I'm a woman, saying it's the
>>>>>>>> starter
>>>> motor
>>>>>>>> that "has a flat spot on the armature" ( yeah right ), and[/color][/color][/color]
could[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>>>>>>> cost $600! But doesn't it sound like a little old starter
>>>>>>>> solenoid contact or something, which could cost a lot less?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is possible that the contacts on the starter solenoid are[/color][/color][/color]
worn[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>>> and
>>>>>>> need replacement. If inspection of the solenoid shows worn or
>>>>>>> damaged contact, the contacts are available as replacement parts
>>>>>>> (at least in the U.S.). If you cannot get replacement contacts,
>>>>>>> then
>>>> you
>>>>>>> may have to replace the starter solenoid or entire starter.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A flat spot on the armature is a possibility but not a common
>>>> problem
>>>>>>> on Toyota starters.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It makes no sense to me, unless the car's been hit or something.
>>>>>>
>>>>> What doesn't make sense? The solenoid or the armature?
>>>>
>>>> That an armature could suddenly develop a "flat spot".
>>>>
>>>> It seems pretty obvious that it's a solenoid contact.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Armatures generally do not suddenly develop flat spots, but they can
>>> wear unevenly over time. The first time the armature loses contact
>>> and the starter does not work, it will seem like a sudden appearance
>>> of a problem.
>>>
>>> In Toyotas, a bad solenoid contact is the most common cause of the
>>> condition you are describing, but it is not the only possible cause.
>>>
>>> In other cars, a bad starter is a more common cause of that
>>> condition, which is probably why your mechanic came up with that
>>> diagnosis.[/color]
>>
>> He's at Midas. I haven't ever gone to them for repairs and just[/color][/color]
started[color=blue][color=green]
>> going to them for an oil change recently, but if I recall, they're[/color][/color]
the[color=blue][color=green]
>> kind of place that likes to replace the whole brake system instead of
>> just what needs it. Maybe they're the same with the starter motor.[/color][/color]
Hey,[color=blue][color=green]
>> they can fool a woman and charge $600 for the whole thing, right?
>>[color=darkred]
>>> One of the things that makes Toyotas easy to work on is that they[/color][/color][/color]
are[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>> built very consistently and have few one-of-a kind problems. The
>>> downside to that consistency is that if there is a weak spot in the
>>> design, assembly process, or material, almost every vehicle will
>>> eventually develop the same problem.[/color]
>>
>> This is THE most reliable car we've ever owned, so far anyway. It has
>> 139,000 miles on it.
>>[/color]
>
> Midas is not high on my list of recommended repair facilities, even[/color]
for[color=blue]
> mufflers. ;-)[/color]


How come?

I sure can't afford Toyota themselves.

"Angela Marsh" <Angela@Southpark.Dis> wrote in message
news:Xns98A3DD8018ED8VoiceFreedomfreedomn@216.196.97.142...

<snipped>
[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>> He's at Midas. I haven't ever gone to them for repairs and just[/color][/color]
> started[color=green][color=darkred]
>>> going to them for an oil change recently, but if I recall, they're[/color][/color]
> the[color=green][color=darkred]
>>> kind of place that likes to replace the whole brake system instead of
>>> just what needs it. Maybe they're the same with the starter motor.[/color][/color]
> Hey,[color=green][color=darkred]
>>> they can fool a woman and charge $600 for the whole thing, right?
>>>
>>>> One of the things that makes Toyotas easy to work on is that they[/color][/color]
> are[color=green][color=darkred]
>>>> built very consistently and have few one-of-a kind problems. The
>>>> downside to that consistency is that if there is a weak spot in the
>>>> design, assembly process, or material, almost every vehicle will
>>>> eventually develop the same problem.
>>>
>>> This is THE most reliable car we've ever owned, so far anyway. It has
>>> 139,000 miles on it.
>>>[/color]
>>
>> Midas is not high on my list of recommended repair facilities, even[/color]
> for[color=green]
>> mufflers. ;-)[/color]
>
>
> How come?
>
> I sure can't afford Toyota themselves.
>[/color]

I have seen the quality of their muffler installations and was not impressed
by the quality of the workmanship or the quality of the materials used.

If I were looking for an independent shop, I would look for one that employs
technicians that are certified by the National Institute for Automotive
Service Excellence, preferably ASE certified Master Technicians. While ASE
certifications are no guarantee of competence, IMO, passing the ASE
certification tests does tend to weed out incompetent technicians. I would
also look for a shop that is AAA approved. A combination of AAA and ASE
certifications tends to weed out fly-by-night operations, and my experience
with AAA arbitration is that they are fair and try to make their
certifications worthwhile.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

On Sun, 24 Dec 2006 22:46:22 -0600, Angela Marsh
<Angela@Southpark.Dis> wrote:[color=blue]
>"Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote :[/color]
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Midas is not high on my list of recommended repair facilities, even
>> for mufflers. ;-)[/color]
>
>How come? I sure can't afford Toyota themselves.[/color]

Midas, Sears Auto Centers, Goodyear Auto Centers, Jiffy Lube, all
the big chain repair operations have one thing in common - Corporate
ownership and lots of micro-management from above.

Known fact: Jiffy Lube tries to lure you in with a $19.99 or $24.99
Oil Change Special - but Corporate wants them to push the hard-sell,
the add-on sale, and their is a stated goal to get an average of $60
out of each ticket, on each visit. (On camera testimony from a
"Former Manager" with his identity protected, see KCBS series below.)

And all these big companies are doing it - they have their service
tickets and billing computerized, and they track every employee as
they make those sales - with salary bonuses for those who produce, and
eventual dismissal for those who don't.

With that kind of pressure to sell or be fired, fraud is rampant -
KCBS Channel 2 News in Los Angeles just did a big hidden-camera sting
where they were sold those add-ons - radiator flushes and transmission
flushes - that were never performed. They had five people sold a
transmission flush while they were there, and the sole flush machine
they had on the premises never moved from it's display spot out front.

In California, it's prosecutable fraud if they "Oversell" unneeded
service or repairs through fraud (the old "Squirt oil on the shocks
and say they're leaking" trick) coercion fear or misrepresentation,
and another crime if they never perform the work.

The CA Bureau of Automotive Repair has inspectors who run stings and
make arrests. Sears has been busted numerous times, and once they
were caught doing the same things at so many locations at once the BAR
was about to yank all their auto repair shop permits statewide...

Midas may have "Advertised Specials" but once they have the car up
on the rack I can guarantee they are going to find lots of ways to
bump that bill up. They have to, their job depends on it...

The Toyota Dealer Mechanics are operating under a different edict
that also inflates the bill: Once they do a repair the work has to be
guaranteed - so they can't "Just" do a spot repair and change just the
contacts in the starter solenoid, even if that's all there is wrong.
If the starter motor fails next, they'd have to replace it for free.
So they always have to install a complete "Genuine Toyota
Remanufactured Starter" that costs three times as much as it should.

A good starter shop can go through the starter for about $50 - $75,
change all the wear items and give it back ready for another 100,000
miles of average use. And on most cars the starters are easy enough
to get out and in yourself, or an independent mechanic can do it for a
reasonable price.

--<< Bruce >>--