Brake pads

I recently put my Camry on jack stands to rotate the tires and inspect
the brakes etc. And I realized my front pads were toast.

I still had the box with the receipt from 04 when I bought them. And
they had a lifetime warranty. They were semi-metallic as they were out
of the ceramic at the time..

I put them on at 56k miles and now have 114 on the clock. Also in the
box were the original ceramic pads that had at least half of their life
left on 'em. So I popped them back on and got a new set under the
warranty. The originals look like I could get another 40k out of them.

When I was at the parts store I asked if I could upgrade to ceramics
with a lifetime warranty. They said 2 years was the limit on those.
Doesn't make much sense really.

I wondered how many people buy brake pads and actually get new pads
under the warranty. I asked them (@the parts store) but I his answer
didn't really match my question..

Merry Xbox...
CP

You left out the company that won't honor the lifetime warranty.

As to ceramic versus semi-metalic, 10 years ago, I ran a set of ceramic pads
at a premium price. the independent shop that special ordered the pads was
unable to warranty them after 50k miles. These days I ask for the best pads
from Kragen and call it good. Kragen enters the purchase in their computer,
and so far, if the parts purchase is lifetime and in their computer, I've
had no problem with a lifetime warranty.

This is not the deal you think. Lifetime struts are expensive to install.
You pick your own example.

"Charles Pisano" <pisanochas@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:474-458EA508-1548@storefull-3274.bay.webtv.net...[color=blue]
>I recently put my Camry on jack stands to rotate the tires and inspect
> the brakes etc. And I realized my front pads were toast.
>
> I still had the box with the receipt from 04 when I bought them. And
> they had a lifetime warranty. They were semi-metallic as they were out
> of the ceramic at the time..
>
> I put them on at 56k miles and now have 114 on the clock. Also in the
> box were the original ceramic pads that had at least half of their life
> left on 'em. So I popped them back on and got a new set under the
> warranty. The originals look like I could get another 40k out of them.
>
> When I was at the parts store I asked if I could upgrade to ceramics
> with a lifetime warranty. They said 2 years was the limit on those.
> Doesn't make much sense really.
>
> I wondered how many people buy brake pads and actually get new pads
> under the warranty. I asked them (@the parts store) but I his answer
> didn't really match my question..
>
> Merry Xbox...
> CP
>[/color]

"Charles Pisano" <pisanochas@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:474-458EA508-1548@storefull-3274.bay.webtv.net...[color=blue]
>I recently put my Camry on jack stands to rotate the tires and inspect
> the brakes etc. And I realized my front pads were toast.
>
> I still had the box with the receipt from 04 when I bought them. And
> they had a lifetime warranty. They were semi-metallic as they were out
> of the ceramic at the time..
>
> I put them on at 56k miles and now have 114 on the clock. Also in the
> box were the original ceramic pads that had at least half of their life
> left on 'em. So I popped them back on and got a new set under the
> warranty. The originals look like I could get another 40k out of them.
>
> When I was at the parts store I asked if I could upgrade to ceramics
> with a lifetime warranty. They said 2 years was the limit on those.
> Doesn't make much sense really.
>
> I wondered how many people buy brake pads and actually get new pads
> under the warranty. I asked them (@the parts store) but I his answer
> didn't really match my question..
>
> Merry Xbox...
> CP
>[/color]

When designing a braking system, the designers have to consider several
factors, many of which compromise others.

The main objective of the brakes is to turn kinetic energy into heat energy
and then get rid of the heat.

Harder lining material usually has a longer life than softer material at the
expense of shorter rotor/drum life.

Softer lining material tends to create more friction, which turns kinetic
energy into heat energy, at the expense of shorter lining life.

A larger swept area for rotors/drums allows more heat dissipation at the
expense of greater unsprung weight.

Metallic and ceramic lining material have a longer life and dissipate heat
better at the expense of shorter rotor/drum life.

Harder rotor/drum material has a longer life than softer material at the
expense of shorter lining life.

I would suspect that so-called "lifetime" brake pads are pretty hard and so
rotor life will be shortened.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

On Sun, 24 Dec 2006 10:57:27 -0600, "Ray O"
<rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:

[color=blue]
>I would suspect that so-called "lifetime" brake pads are pretty hard and so
>rotor life will be shortened.[/color]

Ahh, but you missed the points - First, they get to charge you more
for the "Premium" pads with the Lifetime Warranty. Then they bank on
the car being sold before the pads wear out, or your losing the
paperwork and forgetting that you have that warranty. If you never
cash in, they win.

(And when I went back in to get my "Free" pads, they said the
supplier has 'discontinued that warranty' - but you're a good customer
so we'll give you a free set of regular pads on the house. Hmmm...
Probably why I'll be wary of buying 'Lifetime' things there again.)

Then when you go back for the "free" pads they get to sell you other
things like combi kits and slide rods, wheel hoses and new rotors.
And if you had a shop install those "Lifetime" pads, note that besides
the other parts needed the labor to change them is going to cost you
at the usual rates.

TANSTAAFL - There ain't no such thing as a 'Free Lunch'.

They may be obscuring where they make their money on the deal, but
if they weren't coming out ahead overall they wouldn't do it.

--<< Bruce >>--

"Bruce L. Bergman" <blPYTHONbergman@earthlink.invalid> wrote in message
news:j3gto2plfntdnnk2j6mfb62fssubmmtc3u@4ax.com...[color=blue]
> On Sun, 24 Dec 2006 10:57:27 -0600, "Ray O"
> <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:
>
>[color=green]
>>I would suspect that so-called "lifetime" brake pads are pretty hard and
>>so
>>rotor life will be shortened.[/color]
>
> Ahh, but you missed the points - First, they get to charge you more
> for the "Premium" pads with the Lifetime Warranty. Then they bank on
> the car being sold before the pads wear out, or your losing the
> paperwork and forgetting that you have that warranty. If you never
> cash in, they win.
>
> (And when I went back in to get my "Free" pads, they said the
> supplier has 'discontinued that warranty' - but you're a good customer
> so we'll give you a free set of regular pads on the house. Hmmm...
> Probably why I'll be wary of buying 'Lifetime' things there again.)
>
> Then when you go back for the "free" pads they get to sell you other
> things like combi kits and slide rods, wheel hoses and new rotors.
> And if you had a shop install those "Lifetime" pads, note that besides
> the other parts needed the labor to change them is going to cost you
> at the usual rates.
>
> TANSTAAFL - There ain't no such thing as a 'Free Lunch'.
>
> They may be obscuring where they make their money on the deal, but
> if they weren't coming out ahead overall they wouldn't do it.
>
> --<< Bruce >>--
>[/color]

Which is why I never go for aftermarket "lifetime" parts!
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

"Bruce L. Bergman" <blPYTHONbergman@earthlink.invalid> wrote in message
news:j3gto2plfntdnnk2j6mfb62fssubmmtc3u@4ax.com...[color=blue]
> On Sun, 24 Dec 2006 10:57:27 -0600, "Ray O"
> <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:
>
>[color=green]
>>I would suspect that so-called "lifetime" brake pads are pretty hard and
>>so
>>rotor life will be shortened.[/color]
>
> Ahh, but you missed the points - First, they get to charge you more
> for the "Premium" pads with the Lifetime Warranty. Then they bank on
> the car being sold before the pads wear out, or your losing the
> paperwork and forgetting that you have that warranty. If you never
> cash in, they win.
>[/color]

Of course. But, you get longer life brakes in the process.


[color=blue]
> (And when I went back in to get my "Free" pads, they said the
> supplier has 'discontinued that warranty' - but you're a good customer
> so we'll give you a free set of regular pads on the house. Hmmm...
> Probably why I'll be wary of buying 'Lifetime' things there again.)
>[/color]

Why would you hesitate on an offer like that, ESPECIALLY when the parts
store honors the original warranty? You get two sets of pads for the price
of one. I can't imagine a better deal that that. Well, three for the price
of one would be better, but sometimes life just sucks.


[color=blue]
> Then when you go back for the "free" pads they get to sell you other
> things like combi kits and slide rods, wheel hoses and new rotors.
> And if you had a shop install those "Lifetime" pads, note that besides
> the other parts needed the labor to change them is going to cost you
> at the usual rates.
>[/color]

They only get to sell you that stuff if you need it.

I've not gotten the lifetime warranty for brake parts except for those parts
that I install myself.

I'm now running the original ceramics that came with the car. They
looked huge when I looked at them after looking at the 'lifetime' pads
that were (worn) down to (almost) nothing. I had discarded the wear
indicators when I installed them as they would not stay on.

I guess I should mic the rotors to see how I'm doing there. I didn't
think of that.

I DID get a new set of pads under the warranty AND he told me to hang
on to the original receipt as I can get as many sets as I can use (with
this same car of course). The only problem is the receipt is going to be
even more difficult to read in 3 MORE years. It's from '04...

They did have the same pads for replacement, they just came in a
different box. And I don't think they offer the 'lifetime' thing with
them anymore. I didn't pay any MORE to get the lifetime deal either...

When I use to by GM's, cars wouldn't last long enough for me to
benefit on deals like this. I plan on keeping this 01 camry for a long
time..

The younger guy at the PS did seem confused when I asked for a new set.
I bet he'll be working somewhere else b4 he sees another claim..

CP

On Sun, 24 Dec 2006 12:59:49 -0800, Jeff Strickland wrote:
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Then when you go back for the "free" pads they get to sell you other
>> things like combi kits and slide rods, wheel hoses and new rotors. And
>> if you had a shop install those "Lifetime" pads, note that besides the
>> other parts needed the labor to change them is going to cost you at the
>> usual rates.
>>
>>[/color]
> They only get to sell you that stuff if you need it.
>
> I've not gotten the lifetime warranty for brake parts except for those
> parts that I install myself.[/color]


LOL! Usually, I'm buying those parts for one of my 'beaters', and I get
the cheapest on the shelf, knowing I'll drive it anywhere from 10-30,000
miles and either give it away, sell it or send it to the Recyclers.

The only cars I have bought the Top Shelf stuff for recently were the
Supra and the Tercel I had a couple years ago. I did hunt for the cheapest
drums I could find ($35, the place I was working for, WITH my excellent
Employee Discount, were $55!!!) and I drove it for 3 years. I'll tell you,
it makes a BIG difference from the lowest priced stuff. For the Supra,
there were 3 grades available, but I could only get the middle grade
rotors. Actually, my former boss wouldn't sell me the cheap stuff, but I
didn't want it anyway. I did use the premium pads for it, however. I used
the lowest priced stuff I could for the Celica, and there is QUITE a
noticable difference!

Funny thing with the Celica. I used the cheap Chinese rotors all the way
around. When I bought the car, there was a shudder from the front, so I
knew the rotors were shot. I replaced everything on the cheap, and about
5,000 miles later the shudder was back. Now, I ruined one of my knees
doing that job (no lift, so I was scampering on the ground, and tore the
cartilidge in my right knee) and did not want to do it again because my
knee still hurt, so I let it go, and it went away! I think the rotors
heated and warped, and then later heated again and corrected
themselves...somehow.

On Mon, 25 Dec 2006 18:55:30 -0500, Charles Pisano wrote:
[color=blue]
> I'm now running the original ceramics that came with the car. They looked
> huge when I looked at them after looking at the 'lifetime' pads that were
> (worn) down to (almost) nothing. I had discarded the wear indicators when
> I installed them as they would not stay on.
>
> I guess I should mic the rotors to see how I'm doing there. I didn't think
> of that.[/color]


I just take a wrench of the minimum thickness allowed by spec. If it
doesn't slide over the rotor, it's good!

Except for the Mazda. Minimum thickness is 14mm, and a 14mm wrench JUST
barely fit over one. However, with the pads loaded in the calipers, and
the 'puck' pushed back as FAR as it would go, I could JUST barely fit the
calipers back onto the car! I don't think I'm in too much danger of
popping a piston...

"Hachiroku ãƒ?ãƒ?ãƒ*ク" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
news:pH%jh.1265$oo4.1138@trndny09...[color=blue]
> On Sun, 24 Dec 2006 12:59:49 -0800, Jeff Strickland wrote:
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>>> Then when you go back for the "free" pads they get to sell you other
>>> things like combi kits and slide rods, wheel hoses and new rotors. And
>>> if you had a shop install those "Lifetime" pads, note that besides the
>>> other parts needed the labor to change them is going to cost you at the
>>> usual rates.
>>>
>>>[/color]
>> They only get to sell you that stuff if you need it.
>>
>> I've not gotten the lifetime warranty for brake parts except for those
>> parts that I install myself.[/color]
>
>
> LOL! Usually, I'm buying those parts for one of my 'beaters', and I get
> the cheapest on the shelf, knowing I'll drive it anywhere from 10-30,000
> miles and either give it away, sell it or send it to the Recyclers.
>
> The only cars I have bought the Top Shelf stuff for recently were the
> Supra and the Tercel I had a couple years ago. I did hunt for the cheapest
> drums I could find ($35, the place I was working for, WITH my excellent
> Employee Discount, were $55!!!) and I drove it for 3 years. I'll tell you,
> it makes a BIG difference from the lowest priced stuff. For the Supra,
> there were 3 grades available, but I could only get the middle grade
> rotors. Actually, my former boss wouldn't sell me the cheap stuff, but I
> didn't want it anyway. I did use the premium pads for it, however. I used
> the lowest priced stuff I could for the Celica, and there is QUITE a
> noticable difference!
>
> Funny thing with the Celica. I used the cheap Chinese rotors all the way
> around. When I bought the car, there was a shudder from the front, so I
> knew the rotors were shot. I replaced everything on the cheap, and about
> 5,000 miles later the shudder was back. Now, I ruined one of my knees
> doing that job (no lift, so I was scampering on the ground, and tore the
> cartilidge in my right knee) and did not want to do it again because my
> knee still hurt, so I let it go, and it went away! I think the rotors
> heated and warped, and then later heated again and corrected
> themselves...somehow.
>[/color]

The difference between you and I is that I own cars that are worth having.

Sorry, you walked right into that one ... <hehehe>

On Mon, 25 Dec 2006 19:41:33 -0800, Jeff Strickland wrote:
[color=blue]
>
> "Hachiroku ãƒ?ãƒ?ãƒ*ク" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
> news:pH%jh.1265$oo4.1138@trndny09...[color=green]
>> On Sun, 24 Dec 2006 12:59:49 -0800, Jeff Strickland wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>>> Then when you go back for the "free" pads they get to sell you other
>>>> things like combi kits and slide rods, wheel hoses and new rotors. And
>>>> if you had a shop install those "Lifetime" pads, note that besides the
>>>> other parts needed the labor to change them is going to cost you at
>>>> the usual rates.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> They only get to sell you that stuff if you need it.
>>>
>>> I've not gotten the lifetime warranty for brake parts except for those
>>> parts that I install myself.[/color]
>>
>>
>> LOL! Usually, I'm buying those parts for one of my 'beaters', and I get
>> the cheapest on the shelf, knowing I'll drive it anywhere from 10-30,000
>> miles and either give it away, sell it or send it to the Recyclers.
>>
>> The only cars I have bought the Top Shelf stuff for recently were the
>> Supra and the Tercel I had a couple years ago. I did hunt for the
>> cheapest drums I could find ($35, the place I was working for, WITH my
>> excellent Employee Discount, were $55!!!) and I drove it for 3 years.
>> I'll tell you, it makes a BIG difference from the lowest priced stuff.
>> For the Supra, there were 3 grades available, but I could only get the
>> middle grade rotors. Actually, my former boss wouldn't sell me the cheap
>> stuff, but I didn't want it anyway. I did use the premium pads for it,
>> however. I used the lowest priced stuff I could for the Celica, and
>> there is QUITE a noticable difference!
>>
>> Funny thing with the Celica. I used the cheap Chinese rotors all the way
>> around. When I bought the car, there was a shudder from the front, so I
>> knew the rotors were shot. I replaced everything on the cheap, and about
>> 5,000 miles later the shudder was back. Now, I ruined one of my knees
>> doing that job (no lift, so I was scampering on the ground, and tore the
>> cartilidge in my right knee) and did not want to do it again because my
>> knee still hurt, so I let it go, and it went away! I think the rotors
>> heated and warped, and then later heated again and corrected
>> themselves...somehow.
>>
>>[/color]
> The difference between you and I is that I own cars that are worth having.
>
> Sorry, you walked right into that one ... <hehehe>[/color]


HAY! All of my cars have served one purpose or another!
The Celica was actually a very nice car for it's age, it looked good and
ran well. If I hadn't bought the Supra I would have spent more time on it
and restored it. It was a very good candidate for restoration!

My Hachiroku is...well...a Hachiroku!

My Supra is a very, very nice car.

The Tercel was a beater, but an AWD beater with an excellent engine and
transmission, and NEVER got stuck no matter what the conditions. The other
'95 Tercel was a Gem, and I regret ever selling it, except that I used the
$$$ to buy and repair the Supra. My LHS I am even a bit sorrier I let go,
it was a Georgia car and was immaculate! It got almost as good fuel
economy as the Scion, and was extremely comfortable. And, it handled
almost as well as the Celica! I'm really kicking myself for trading it for
$600...

And, I have the Mazda running very well. If the roof didn't have paint
damage from sitting under pine trees it would look new. For $150 and $400
in parts I got a decent car...no rust or damage except the roof. No smoke,
no oil leaks, no nothing. It just runs, and in all honesty is built
(bodywise) as well as a Toyota! Very well made car, unlike my 240SX...


The van...hey, did I tell you about the LHS?

And the Scion? Wooooo-Hooooo!!! Except for the seating position, I love
that car! Did I ever mention how fast it is? ;)


(BTW, I gave the van away today to someone who has a bunch of them and
likes them. He's either going to use it for parts for his three others, or
put an engine in it...)

[email]pisanochas@webtv.net[/email] (Charles Pisano) wrote in news:496-459064F2-1699
@storefull-3272.bay.webtv.net:
[color=blue]
> I'm now running the original ceramics that came with the car.[/color]




Toyota does not install ceramic pads. Your "original" pads are crap
aftermarket.


--
Tegger

Raybestos discontinued their lifetime replacement program a long time
ago. Bendix only gives you one extra set when you regiester for their
special program. But you pretty much have to buy each new set now.

I'd go with Akebono Proact Ceramic. These are good ceramic pads, the
same brand Toyota uses on the Lexus line. For most of the Toy line, you
get organic crap like NBK and who knows what these days.

Raybestos ceramics are good too, but they are dirtier than the akenobos
(darker dust).



Charles Pisano wrote:[color=blue]
> I recently put my Camry on jack stands to rotate the tires and inspect
> the brakes etc. And I realized my front pads were toast.
>
> I still had the box with the receipt from 04 when I bought them. And
> they had a lifetime warranty. They were semi-metallic as they were out
> of the ceramic at the time..
>
> I put them on at 56k miles and now have 114 on the clock. Also in the
> box were the original ceramic pads that had at least half of their life
> left on 'em. So I popped them back on and got a new set under the
> warranty. The originals look like I could get another 40k out of them.
>
> When I was at the parts store I asked if I could upgrade to ceramics
> with a lifetime warranty. They said 2 years was the limit on those.
> Doesn't make much sense really.
>
> I wondered how many people buy brake pads and actually get new pads
> under the warranty. I asked them (@the parts store) but I his answer
> didn't really match my question..
>
> Merry Xbox...
> CP[/color]

[email]pisanochas@webtv.net[/email] (Charles Pisano) wrote:
[color=blue]
>I wondered how many people buy brake pads and actually get new pads
>under the warranty. I asked them (@the parts store) but I his answer
>didn't really match my question..[/color]
I bought "Raybestos Silver" pads and, later, shoes for a 1975
Corolla wagon from Western Auto sometime during the mid-1980's. Never
bought another set of pads or shoes for the life of the car, which DW&I
finally had to remove from the road in late '05 with 327,000++ on the
clock. FWIW, I had identical experience with: Alternator (1988), water
pump (1985), struts (1983), shock absorbers (1983), F/E alignment
(1983), fuel pump (1995). I always make it a point to buy the highest
quality (AWA the highest service grade) that I can find with a lifetime
warranty and that labor is included for those items that require
installation beyond my abilites. For example, shocks and struts started
out as Sears' "Steadyrider" (Gabriel) product in 1983 and as Sears'
product line upgraded over the years so did the replacements for my old
Corolla so that now it's sitting out there in the yard with Monroe
Sensatrac's all the way around.
Please note that quality and lifetime warranty do not necessarily
go together: For example, the lifetime warranty on a so-called "rebuilt"
alternator from the homeowner DIY store don't mean squat if you're still
changing out alternators every year-or-so, even if the replacements are
"free", unless your time and knuckle-skin are of no value to you ;-) It
is critical, too, that replacement parts absolutely must conform to OEM
specs. For example, if metallic pads are not spec'd for a vehicle, they
may not provide the best stopping power and/or service life on that
vehicle and may actually contribute to accellerated rotor wear without
actually being defective -- they're just the wrong part for the vehicle.
FWIW, I also have noticed that some warranties now have been
modified to specifically exclude normal wearout and cover *only*
manufacturing defects.
--
HTH,
Derald