My Prius lost its mind this morning

Got into my 05 Prius about 7:00AM - - it was cold in the garage - - the
hi/lo thermometer showed a low of 38 deg. f. I punched the "ON" button (with
my foot on the brake pedal) to start the car . The first thing I noticed was
the "brake" light was lit (odd, I never use the parking brake) - - then the
ABS light and the "icy road" light stayed lit, too. The right turn arrow was
continuously lit dimly even though I had not signaled a turn. When I
signaled a right turn, the signal was very rapid, perhaps 5 per second. I
checked the parking brake by pressing and releasing it a few times - - no
improvement, "BRAKE" still lit. I put it in drive and pulled out of the
garage - - seemed okay. Pulled out on the street and noticed the climate
control fan had turned off, even though I had the temp set for 70, and when
I came to a stop light, the brakes required unusually high pedal effort. I
turned around at a corner and drove back home to put the car back in the
garage - - too many questions to keep driving it.

Around 10:00AM, I tried it again. Still bad, so I figured I should head for
the Toyota dealership. I drove the car out onto the driveway in the sunshine
and removed all my goodies from their various locations, expecting to leave
the car in the repair shop for a few days. About a half hour later, I
started it up - - oops - - no BRAKE, ABS or "icy road" signals - - turn
signal works correctly again. Heater fan is running and brake pedal is
normal, signifying energy recovery is back in operation. Damn - - an
intermittent, probably due to the low temperature - - dash outside temp is
showing 50 deg. f. now.

I bought this car with a "salvage" title, so I'm in for a non-warranty
repair bill. Any ideas what went wrong, and what kind of an expense I can
look forward to if this becomes a permanent failure?

Thanks, guys.

On Sat, 30 Dec 2006 11:45:28 -0800, Chuck Olson wrote:
[color=blue]
> I bought this car with a "salvage" title, so I'm in for a non-warranty
> repair bill. Any ideas what went wrong, and what kind of an expense I can
> look forward to if this becomes a permanent failure?[/color]

I used to work for a Used Car Dealer where we specialized in "Salvage
Titles".

We fixed up all kinds of cars; Fords, mostly, and then the boss grudgingly
got into Toyotas (Why so difficult? You can buy 2-3 Escorts for the price
of one Corolla, Camry or Honda...then there's the Parts Price issue!) But
he knew Toys sell well, so he bit the bullet.

But the 2 Prius' we sold were sold for third parties, NO Salvage title.
Because of the complexity of the system, it was just too damn difficult to
deal with a Salvage Prius.

It would help to know, if *YOU* know, what kind of damage the car had that
rendered it Salvage.

Dealing with ANY Salvage car is iffy, I will admit, we had some cars on
the lot I would steer people AWAY from, but for the most part the repairs
were done well. I'm wondering, was it Flood Damage?

Hachiroku ãƒ?ãƒ?ãƒ*ク wrote:[color=blue]
> On Sat, 30 Dec 2006 11:45:28 -0800, Chuck Olson wrote:
>[color=green]
> > I bought this car with a "salvage" title, so I'm in for a non-warranty
> > repair bill. Any ideas what went wrong, and what kind of an expense I can
> > look forward to if this becomes a permanent failure?[/color]
>
> I used to work for a Used Car Dealer where we specialized in "Salvage
> Titles".
>
> We fixed up all kinds of cars; Fords, mostly, and then the boss grudgingly
> got into Toyotas (Why so difficult? You can buy 2-3 Escorts for the price
> of one Corolla, Camry or Honda...then there's the Parts Price issue!) But
> he knew Toys sell well, so he bit the bullet.
>
> But the 2 Prius' we sold were sold for third parties, NO Salvage title.
> Because of the complexity of the system, it was just too damn difficult to
> deal with a Salvage Prius.
>
> It would help to know, if *YOU* know, what kind of damage the car had that
> rendered it Salvage.
>
> Dealing with ANY Salvage car is iffy, I will admit, we had some cars on
> the lot I would steer people AWAY from, but for the most part the repairs
> were done well. I'm wondering, was it Flood Damage?[/color]

sounds like wiring damage or computer damage.

Chuck Olson wrote:[color=blue]
> I bought this car with a "salvage" title,[/color]

wonder why... flood damage? bad accident?

"Chuck Olson" <chuckolson01@REMOVETHIScomcast.net> wrote in message
news:-uidnYTO0KdtXAvYnZ2dnUVZ_hynnZ2d@comcast.com...[color=blue]
> Got into my 05 Prius about 7:00AM - - it was cold in the garage - - the
> hi/lo thermometer showed a low of 38 deg. f. I punched the "ON" button
> (with
> my foot on the brake pedal) to start the car . The first thing I noticed
> was
> the "brake" light was lit (odd, I never use the parking brake) - - then
> the
> ABS light and the "icy road" light stayed lit, too. The right turn arrow
> was
> continuously lit dimly even though I had not signaled a turn. When I
> signaled a right turn, the signal was very rapid, perhaps 5 per second. I
> checked the parking brake by pressing and releasing it a few times - - no
> improvement, "BRAKE" still lit. I put it in drive and pulled out of the
> garage - - seemed okay. Pulled out on the street and noticed the climate
> control fan had turned off, even though I had the temp set for 70, and
> when
> I came to a stop light, the brakes required unusually high pedal effort. I
> turned around at a corner and drove back home to put the car back in the
> garage - - too many questions to keep driving it.
>
> Around 10:00AM, I tried it again. Still bad, so I figured I should head
> for
> the Toyota dealership. I drove the car out onto the driveway in the
> sunshine
> and removed all my goodies from their various locations, expecting to
> leave
> the car in the repair shop for a few days. About a half hour later, I
> started it up - - oops - - no BRAKE, ABS or "icy road" signals - - turn
> signal works correctly again. Heater fan is running and brake pedal is
> normal, signifying energy recovery is back in operation. Damn - - an
> intermittent, probably due to the low temperature - - dash outside temp is
> showing 50 deg. f. now.
>
> I bought this car with a "salvage" title, so I'm in for a non-warranty
> repair bill. Any ideas what went wrong, and what kind of an expense I can
> look forward to if this becomes a permanent failure?
>
> Thanks, guys.
>[/color]

I am not that familiar with the Prius' controls, but I'd suspect an
initialization, or "boot up" problem. Depending on why the vehicle was sold
as salvage, the list of possible causes is probably very long. If it was in
a wreck, then there may be a loose connection somewhere, and if it was in a
flood, then there may be a corroded connection somewhere.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

"Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote in message
news:c216e$459740c9$47c2b532$16108@msgid.meganewsservers.com...[color=blue]
>
> "Chuck Olson" <chuckolson01@REMOVETHIScomcast.net> wrote in message
> news:-uidnYTO0KdtXAvYnZ2dnUVZ_hynnZ2d@comcast.com...[color=green]
> > Got into my 05 Prius about 7:00AM - - it was cold in the garage - - the
> > hi/lo thermometer showed a low of 38 deg. f. I punched the "ON" button
> > (with
> > my foot on the brake pedal) to start the car . The first thing I noticed
> > was
> > the "brake" light was lit (odd, I never use the parking brake) - - then
> > the
> > ABS light and the "icy road" light stayed lit, too. The right turn arrow
> > was
> > continuously lit dimly even though I had not signaled a turn. When I
> > signaled a right turn, the signal was very rapid, perhaps 5 per second.[/color][/color]
I[color=blue][color=green]
> > checked the parking brake by pressing and releasing it a few times - -[/color][/color]
no[color=blue][color=green]
> > improvement, "BRAKE" still lit. I put it in drive and pulled out of the
> > garage - - seemed okay. Pulled out on the street and noticed the climate
> > control fan had turned off, even though I had the temp set for 70, and
> > when
> > I came to a stop light, the brakes required unusually high pedal effort.[/color][/color]
I[color=blue][color=green]
> > turned around at a corner and drove back home to put the car back in the
> > garage - - too many questions to keep driving it.
> >
> > Around 10:00AM, I tried it again. Still bad, so I figured I should head
> > for
> > the Toyota dealership. I drove the car out onto the driveway in the
> > sunshine
> > and removed all my goodies from their various locations, expecting to
> > leave
> > the car in the repair shop for a few days. About a half hour later, I
> > started it up - - oops - - no BRAKE, ABS or "icy road" signals - - turn
> > signal works correctly again. Heater fan is running and brake pedal is
> > normal, signifying energy recovery is back in operation. Damn - - an
> > intermittent, probably due to the low temperature - - dash outside temp[/color][/color]
is[color=blue][color=green]
> > showing 50 deg. f. now.
> >
> > I bought this car with a "salvage" title, so I'm in for a non-warranty
> > repair bill. Any ideas what went wrong, and what kind of an expense I[/color][/color]
can[color=blue][color=green]
> > look forward to if this becomes a permanent failure?
> >
> > Thanks, guys.
> >[/color]
>
> I am not that familiar with the Prius' controls, but I'd suspect an
> initialization, or "boot up" problem. Depending on why the vehicle was[/color]
sold[color=blue]
> as salvage, the list of possible causes is probably very long. If it was[/color]
in[color=blue]
> a wreck, then there may be a loose connection somewhere, and if it was in[/color]
a[color=blue]
> flood, then there may be a corroded connection somewhere.
> --
>
> Ray O
> (correct punctuation to reply)
>[/color]

Thanks to all who offered advice.

I have a slight update on the problem. It seems turning on the headlights
precipitates the problem if it starts out behaving normally in the daytime.
However, turning them off again does not immediately restore normal
operation. I have to stop, turn the car off and then back on again with
headlights off. Suspecting it may be associated with my 13-month-old 12v
battery's condition (high internal resistance or low state of charge), I put
a charger on it and found it was very nearly fully charged. The charging
current dropped from 5A to less than 1A in just a few minutes as I watched,
so at least the charging facility in the car appears to be working normally.
So then still suspecting a low energy reserve or high internal resistance, I
looked at the battery voltage as I turned the headlights on. Monitoring it
at the engine compartment fuse box, immediately after engine shutoff in PARK
the voltage went from 13.99 with headlights off to 13.95 with headlights
on, according to my Fluke 87 DMM - - drop-off doesn't appear to be
excessive.

The salvage title came about because of a collision in Santa Cruz, CA which,
according to the seller, was not significant enough to even deploy the
air-bags. He said they pretty much only had to replace sheet metal. I
believe the damage was concentrated in the right front area, but it didn't
even crack the windshield. The radiator shows no bruising at all. It's a
mystery to me how such superficial damage can result in declaring the car a
total loss while it's capable of almost 100% recovery with sheetmetal
replacement. Whether this is the whole story or not, I have no idea, but up
to now I've been pretty happy with it.

I had the car inspected by my local dealership after I got it, and they
restored a couple of connections that had been missed in putting the car
back together, but judged it was in pretty good shape with about 4000 miles
on it. I've been driving it since August 2005, and it served perfectly
through the 2005 cold season and so far this season driving it at night
about three times a week, but now with only about 13,000 miles on it, this
pops up.

So there you have its history as I know it.

Chuck

In article <A8-dnWsPMs38hAXYnZ2dnUVZ_qemnZ2d@comcast.com>
[email]chuckolson01@REMOVETHIScomcast.net[/email] "Chuck Olson" writes:
[color=blue]
> I had the car inspected by my local dealership after I got it,
> and they restored a couple of connections that had been missed
> in putting the car back together, but judged it was in pretty
> good shape with about 4000 miles on it. [...][/color]

Okay, the pro motor engineers here can correct me if I'm wrong;
but it seems like you have there a natural and friendly reason to
return to that dealership, say this weird effect has come up and
ask if they'd take a further look at the car. (Smiling nicely.)
--
Andrew Stephenson

"Andrew Stephenson" <ames@deltrak.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1167597481snz@deltrak.demon.co.uk...[color=blue]
> In article <A8-dnWsPMs38hAXYnZ2dnUVZ_qemnZ2d@comcast.com>
> [email]chuckolson01@REMOVETHIScomcast.net[/email] "Chuck Olson" writes:
>[color=green]
>> I had the car inspected by my local dealership after I got it,
>> and they restored a couple of connections that had been missed
>> in putting the car back together, but judged it was in pretty
>> good shape with about 4000 miles on it. [...][/color]
>
> Okay, the pro motor engineers here can correct me if I'm wrong;
> but it seems like you have there a natural and friendly reason to
> return to that dealership, say this weird effect has come up and
> ask if they'd take a further look at the car. (Smiling nicely.)
> --
> Andrew Stephenson
>[/color]

I'm not exactly a "pro" any more, but that would be my advice. If the car
was in a wreck, I'd suspect a poor or disconnected ground point somewhere or
a chafed wiring harness somewhere.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

In article <-uidnYTO0KdtXAvYnZ2dnUVZ_hynnZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Chuck Olson" <chuckolson01@REMOVETHIScomcast.net> wrote:
[color=blue]
> Around 10:00AM, I tried it again. Still bad, so I figured I should head for
> the Toyota dealership.[/color]

Never once have you read the manual, eh?

Yeah, you know how to drive a car. Even something as technologically
weird as a Prius. You have absolutely no need to open the owner's
manual, right?

On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 20:38:01 GMT, [email]ames@deltrak.demon.co.uk[/email] (Andrew
Stephenson) wrote:[color=blue]
>In article <A8-dnWsPMs38hAXYnZ2dnUVZ_qemnZ2d@comcast.com>
> [email]chuckolson01@REMOVETHIScomcast.net[/email] "Chuck Olson" writes:
>[color=green]
>> I had the car inspected by my local dealership after I got it,
>> and they restored a couple of connections that had been missed
>> in putting the car back together, but judged it was in pretty
>> good shape with about 4000 miles on it. [...][/color]
>
>Okay, the pro motor engineers here can correct me if I'm wrong;
>but it seems like you have there a natural and friendly reason to
>return to that dealership, say this weird effect has come up and
>ask if they'd take a further look at the car. (Smiling nicely.)[/color]

No, that's the time to go back to the selling dealer and ask nicely,
explain the symptoms, and have them check for pinched or broken wires
in the area of the repairs again. See if you can get the same body
guys and Mechanic that fixed it the first time to look at it again,
they may remember something that was bugging them but "checked out
okay" the first time.

But IMHO they were still lying to you somewhere, or to be charitable
they didn't tell you the complete truth - Insurance companies DO NOT
total out cars and give salvage titles over simple quarter-panel body
damage, period.

It had to have been smacked pretty hard, and the insurer may have
suspected damage to the Hybrid System equipment which would have been
seriously expensive to fix - so they bailed on the car.

The people who put the money into buying the car and fixing it up
(after it was totaled) played craps to see if they could fix it up
without spending a fortune, and come out ahead.

They only total out cars when the repair costs approach the
replacement value of the entire car plus the scrap value of the
wrecked car. And that usually happens when the frame is badly bent to
where the cabin shell needs to be pulled out, or the airbags get
popped - That's a good $5K to replace all the airbag parts, and that
usually tips the scale. Plus the airbags often break the windshield
and there's another $500.

--<< Bruce >>--

Doubt reading the owners' manual back and forth would help with his
experienced problems! Maybe the huge 3" thick OEM repair manual and a few
grand worth of SSTs would but surely not the measley owners' manual.

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
news:elmop-E0D95E.21344931122006@nntp2.usenetserver.com...[color=blue]
> In article <-uidnYTO0KdtXAvYnZ2dnUVZ_hynnZ2d@comcast.com>,
> "Chuck Olson" <chuckolson01@REMOVETHIScomcast.net> wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Around 10:00AM, I tried it again. Still bad, so I figured I should head
>> for
>> the Toyota dealership.[/color]
>
> Never once have you read the manual, eh?
>
> Yeah, you know how to drive a car. Even something as technologically
> weird as a Prius. You have absolutely no need to open the owner's
> manual, right?
>[/color]

In article <ZU9mh.30020$Mf4.648@newsfe15.lga>,
"Wolfgang" <NOwolfXgang_dieterxSPAM@NOXcox.netNOT> wrote:
[color=blue]
> Doubt reading the owners' manual back and forth would help with his
> experienced problems![/color]

I know for a fact it would.

"Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote in message
news:c0724$459861d3$47c2b532$16259@msgid.meganewsservers.com...[color=blue]
>
> "Andrew Stephenson" <ames@deltrak.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:1167597481snz@deltrak.demon.co.uk...[color=green]
> > In article <A8-dnWsPMs38hAXYnZ2dnUVZ_qemnZ2d@comcast.com>
> > [email]chuckolson01@REMOVETHIScomcast.net[/email] "Chuck Olson" writes:
> >[color=darkred]
> >> I had the car inspected by my local dealership after I got it,
> >> and they restored a couple of connections that had been missed
> >> in putting the car back together, but judged it was in pretty
> >> good shape with about 4000 miles on it. [...][/color]
> >
> > Okay, the pro motor engineers here can correct me if I'm wrong;
> > but it seems like you have there a natural and friendly reason to
> > return to that dealership, say this weird effect has come up and
> > ask if they'd take a further look at the car. (Smiling nicely.)
> > --
> > Andrew Stephenson
> >[/color]
>
> I'm not exactly a "pro" any more, but that would be my advice. If the car
> was in a wreck, I'd suspect a poor or disconnected ground point somewhere[/color]
or[color=blue]
> a chafed wiring harness somewhere.
> --
>
> Ray O
> (correct punctuation to reply)
>[/color]

Pretty good, Ray. It was a bad ground (EA or EB in the wiring manual), on
the "right side fender apron", and a burnt out right turn signal lamp.
Evidently the bad ground injected a few volts where there shouldn't be any,
and various systems depending on that ground got upset. Total charge for
finding the bad ground and open lamp $366. So I guess I got off relatively
cheaply. The Toyota technician felt the ground was badly installed on
replacement sheetmetal in the salvage repair of the vehicle.

The operator's manual mentioned the rapid turn signal if a lamp was burnt
out, so Elmo P. Shagnasty had a valid criticism.

Thanks, all for your suggestions.

Chuck

On Thu, 04 Jan 2007 16:57:32 -0800, Chuck Olson wrote:
[color=blue]
> Total charge
> for finding the bad ground and open lamp $366.[/color]


HOLY CRAP!!!! $366 to connect a ground wire and install a light bulb?!?!?!

"Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
news:patnh.1$Ul4.0@trnddc05...[color=blue]
> On Thu, 04 Jan 2007 16:57:32 -0800, Chuck Olson wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Total charge
>> for finding the bad ground and open lamp $366.[/color]
>
>
> HOLY CRAP!!!! $366 to connect a ground wire and install a light bulb?!?!?!
>[/color]
I'd bet most of the charge was for time spent on diagnosis and finding the
cause of the problem. I remember working on a truck that had a rattle that
the dealership spent 12 hours chasing. After a test drive, I found it in
under 2 minutes under the hood and fixed it by sticking a piece of
weatherstripping under the rattling electrical connector.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)