Perhaps silly, but Synthetic Oil weight correlate exactly to convention oil weights ?

Perhaps silly, but Synthetic Oil weight correlate exactly to
convention oil weights ?

I am coming up to the first oil change - 5K.

Obviously Toyota put the original oil in the crackcase and I did not.

Per my manual it reads 5W-30 for oil for the 2006 4runner.

I have purchased 5w 30 Mobil 1 and a Mobil 1 oil filter for the 5K -
that would be the appropriate weight, should it not ?

Separately, the shop that will do the oil change - I would do the oil
change myself, but it would probably look better for warranty purposes
to have a nice receipt showing that a quality shop did that very oil
change.
That shop manager mentioned that he did not see a need to futz with
the brakes at teh 5K mark.

Would there likely be a pointless economy error in not having the
brakes checked, even if they do not need it, in terms of the warranty
compliance (again, even though the shop manager says that the brakes
are fine) ?

Thanks

I think it was FJ <sec4251@remove the remove yahoo.com> who stated:
[color=blue]
>Perhaps silly, but Synthetic Oil weight correlate exactly to
>convention oil weights ?[/color]

No silly questions, except unasked ones.
[color=blue]
>I am coming up to the first oil change - 5K.
>
>Obviously Toyota put the original oil in the crackcase and I did not.
>
>Per my manual it reads 5W-30 for oil for the 2006 4runner.
>
>I have purchased 5w 30 Mobil 1 and a Mobil 1 oil filter for the 5K -
>that would be the appropriate weight, should it not ?[/color]

Yes. I mean, yes it is the appropriate weight; synth weight correlates
to non-synth.
[color=blue]
>Separately, the shop that will do the oil change - I would do the oil
>change myself, but it would probably look better for warranty purposes
>to have a nice receipt showing that a quality shop did that very oil
>change.
>That shop manager mentioned that he did not see a need to futz with
>the brakes at teh 5K mark.
>
>Would there likely be a pointless economy error in not having the
>brakes checked, even if they do not need it, in terms of the warranty
>compliance (again, even though the shop manager says that the brakes
>are fine) ?[/color]

No warranty problem, no. Especially if the shop manager says they're
fine.

--
A day without sunshine is like, well, night

In article <ridkp2p7sdlagnq5bgv1hbdf6pe4dpg6ll@4ax.com>
sec4251@remove "FJ" writes:
[color=blue]
> Perhaps silly, but Synthetic Oil weight correlate exactly to
> convention oil weights ?[/color]

If it helps, I believe what you are calling "weight" is actually
"viscosity", or how non-runny the oil is. IOW, a portable unit.
--
Andrew Stephenson

Personally I'd wait til 10k before going to synthetic - guess I still
believe there is some breakin on new engines and the friction is needed to
seat rings. Ok to do yourself - just keep receipt for oil and filter and
mark date and mileage on them. I cut out the oilfilter number and put on
back and staple in the repair schedule in owners manual. I prefer to use
OEM yota filters - I buy 5 or so at discount online. With synthetic you may
want a filter designed for synthetic oil (usually more costly at about $9).

"FJ" <sec4251@remove the remove yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ridkp2p7sdlagnq5bgv1hbdf6pe4dpg6ll@4ax.com...[color=blue]
> Perhaps silly, but Synthetic Oil weight correlate exactly to
> convention oil weights ?
>
> I am coming up to the first oil change - 5K.
>
> Obviously Toyota put the original oil in the crackcase and I did not.
>
> Per my manual it reads 5W-30 for oil for the 2006 4runner.
>
> I have purchased 5w 30 Mobil 1 and a Mobil 1 oil filter for the 5K -
> that would be the appropriate weight, should it not ?
>
> Separately, the shop that will do the oil change - I would do the oil
> change myself, but it would probably look better for warranty purposes
> to have a nice receipt showing that a quality shop did that very oil
> change.
> That shop manager mentioned that he did not see a need to futz with
> the brakes at teh 5K mark.
>
> Would there likely be a pointless economy error in not having the
> brakes checked, even if they do not need it, in terms of the warranty
> compliance (again, even though the shop manager says that the brakes
> are fine) ?
>
> Thanks[/color]

"FJ" <sec4251@remove the remove yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ridkp2p7sdlagnq5bgv1hbdf6pe4dpg6ll@4ax.com...[color=blue]
> Perhaps silly, but Synthetic Oil weight correlate exactly to
> convention oil weights ?
>
> I am coming up to the first oil change - 5K.
>
> Obviously Toyota put the original oil in the crackcase and I did not.
>
> Per my manual it reads 5W-30 for oil for the 2006 4runner.
>
> I have purchased 5w 30 Mobil 1 and a Mobil 1 oil filter for the 5K -
> that would be the appropriate weight, should it not ?[/color]

The oil viscosity, or "weight" is the same for conventional and synthetic
oil.
[color=blue]
> Separately, the shop that will do the oil change - I would do the oil
> change myself, but it would probably look better for warranty purposes
> to have a nice receipt showing that a quality shop did that very oil
> change.
> That shop manager mentioned that he did not see a need to futz with
> the brakes at teh 5K mark.[/color]

If you keep the receipt for the oil and filters and mark the mileage when
the oil was changed, that will suffice for warranty purposes. Depending on
the "quality" of the shop doing the oil changed, that may even be better. A
factory service rep probably would not consider a fast oil change place as a
"quality" shop.
[color=blue]
> Would there likely be a pointless economy error in not having the
> brakes checked, even if they do not need it, in terms of the warranty
> compliance (again, even though the shop manager says that the brakes
> are fine) ?
>
> Thanks[/color]

Have the tires rotated in accordance with the manufacturer's recommendation
and have the brakes checked when the tires are rotated. There should be no
additional cost to check the brakes during tire rotation. If there is, find
another shop.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

"FJ" <sec4251@remove the remove yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ridkp2p7sdlagnq5bgv1hbdf6pe4dpg6ll@4ax.com...[color=blue]
> Perhaps silly, but Synthetic Oil weight correlate exactly to
> convention oil weights ?
>
> I am coming up to the first oil change - 5K.
>
> Obviously Toyota put the original oil in the crackcase and I did not.
>
> Per my manual it reads 5W-30 for oil for the 2006 4runner.
>
> I have purchased 5w 30 Mobil 1 and a Mobil 1 oil filter for the 5K -
> that would be the appropriate weight, should it not ?
>
> Separately, the shop that will do the oil change - I would do the oil
> change myself, but it would probably look better for warranty purposes
> to have a nice receipt showing that a quality shop did that very oil
> change.
> That shop manager mentioned that he did not see a need to futz with
> the brakes at teh 5K mark.
>
> Would there likely be a pointless economy error in not having the
> brakes checked, even if they do not need it, in terms of the warranty
> compliance (again, even though the shop manager says that the brakes
> are fine) ?
>
> Thanks[/color]

"FJ" <sec4251@remove the remove yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ridkp2p7sdlagnq5bgv1hbdf6pe4dpg6ll@4ax.com...[color=blue]
> Perhaps silly, but Synthetic Oil weight correlate exactly to
> convention oil weights ?
>
> I am coming up to the first oil change - 5K.
>
> Obviously Toyota put the original oil in the crackcase and I did not.
>
> Per my manual it reads 5W-30 for oil for the 2006 4runner.
>
> I have purchased 5w 30 Mobil 1 and a Mobil 1 oil filter for the 5K -
> that would be the appropriate weight, should it not ?
>
> Separately, the shop that will do the oil change - I would do the oil
> change myself, but it would probably look better for warranty purposes
> to have a nice receipt showing that a quality shop did that very oil
> change.
> That shop manager mentioned that he did not see a need to futz with
> the brakes at teh 5K mark.
>
> Would there likely be a pointless economy error in not having the
> brakes checked, even if they do not need it, in terms of the warranty
> compliance (again, even though the shop manager says that the brakes
> are fine) ?
>
> Thanks[/color]

Mobil 1, 5W-30 works great on newer Toyota engines (if the engine
accumulated a lot of miles before switching to synthetic, then I would
recommend 10W-30 or higher viscosity). Just mark down on a sheet of paper
the date of the oil change and odometer reading and attach the receipts for
the oil and filter, and sign it indicating that you changed the oil. That
will suffice as evidence that you changed the oil. If you have any receipts
for an oil pan, filter wrench, car jack, etc, that would also help.

The odds of Toyota ever claiming there was a problem with oil changes on a
car that used Mobil 1 on a regular change interval (7500 miles or less
between changes) is infinitely small (assuming the oil filter or drain plug
does not leak). They cannot deny a warranty claim unless they can show that
the problem was caused by lack of adequate oil changes, so the issue oil
changes will likely never come up during a warranty claim. If they do ask
you about the oil changes, mention you use Mobil 1 and just say you have
receipts at home (without mentioning you changed the oil yourself). If they
ask for the receipts, then show them the items mentioned above.

"Mark A" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:TOSdnbvgh74tMAfYnZ2dnUVZ_uyknZ2d@comcast.com...
[color=blue]
>
> Mobil 1, 5W-30 works great on newer Toyota engines (if the engine
> accumulated a lot of miles before switching to synthetic, then I would
> recommend 10W-30 or higher viscosity).[/color]

No offence, but if Toyota recommends 5W-30, I would follow Toyota's
recommendation over the recommendation of anyone else. Toyota is fairly
knowledgeable about the vehicles they build ;-)

Just mark down on a sheet of paper[color=blue]
> the date of the oil change and odometer reading and attach the receipts
> for the oil and filter, and sign it indicating that you changed the oil.
> That will suffice as evidence that you changed the oil. If you have any
> receipts for an oil pan, filter wrench, car jack, etc, that would also
> help.[/color]

The receipts for the oil and filter, along with the date and odometer
reading are necessary. A signature by the owner and receipts for the oil
pan, filter wrench, jack, etc. are useless.
[color=blue]
> The odds of Toyota ever claiming there was a problem with oil changes on a
> car that used Mobil 1 on a regular change interval (7500 miles or less
> between changes) is infinitely small (assuming the oil filter or drain
> plug does not leak). They cannot deny a warranty claim unless they can
> show that the problem was caused by lack of adequate oil changes, so the
> issue oil changes will likely never come up during a warranty claim. If
> they do ask you about the oil changes, mention you use Mobil 1 and just
> say you have receipts at home (without mentioning you changed the oil
> yourself). If they ask for the receipts, then show them the items
> mentioned above.[/color]

Using Mobil 1 for oil changes does not improve or diminish the chances that
Toyota will approve or deny warranty coverage for an engine repair, and
saying that you use Mobil 1 will not impress the district service manager
(unless the DSM is new and doesn't know anything about cars). Changing the
oil yourself does not diminish the chances that you will get warranty
coverage on a defect. Toyota can deny a warranty claim for plenty of
reasons other than the lack of adequate oil changes, although that is the
most common reason that engines fail. Toyota will not deny warranty
coverage for defects in material or workmanship but they not cover lack of
proper maintenance, failure or damage caused by non-Toyota parts, abuse, or
modifications that cause a failure.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

FJ wrote:[color=blue]
> Perhaps silly, but Synthetic Oil weight correlate exactly to
> convention oil weights ?
>
> I am coming up to the first oil change - 5K.
>
> Obviously Toyota put the original oil in the crackcase and I did not.
>
> Per my manual it reads 5W-30 for oil for the 2006 4runner.
>
> I have purchased 5w 30 Mobil 1 and a Mobil 1 oil filter for the 5K -
> that would be the appropriate weight, should it not ?[/color]

it would, but i really wouldnt consider switching to synthetic until
15-20k miles, just to make sure the engine is completely broken in.

FJ wrote:[color=blue]
> Perhaps silly, but Synthetic Oil weight correlate exactly to
> convention oil weights ?
>
> I am coming up to the first oil change - 5K.
>
> Obviously Toyota put the original oil in the crackcase and I did not.
>
> Per my manual it reads 5W-30 for oil for the 2006 4runner.[/color]

Correct. However some dealers use 10W30. I wanted 5W30, and made the
dealer change the oil a second time after they used 10W30 because that's
all they had in the bulk tanks. I found it amusing that good independent
shops will never use the incorrect oil because they are worried about
liability, yet a dealer's service department will do what's cheaper.
Same with newer Hondas that use 5W20. The good independent shops buy
5W20, even though it's expensive, while the Honda dealers (at least some
of them) use 5W30 from the bulk tank.
[color=blue]
> I have purchased 5w 30 Mobil 1 and a Mobil 1 oil filter for the 5K -
> that would be the appropriate weight, should it not ?[/color]

Too early to switch to synthetic. If you're going to stick to 5K oil
changes then there's no advantage for synthetic, but I guess that you're
planning to extend the oil changes to longer intervals.
[color=blue]
> Separately, the shop that will do the oil change - I would do the oil
> change myself, but it would probably look better for warranty purposes
> to have a nice receipt showing that a quality shop did that very oil
> change.[/color]

It definitely helps to have a legitimate receipt from a shop in case of
any engine problems down the road, but it's probably sufficient to keep
the oil and filter receipts (just don't stock up on oil so you always
have a receipt that's dated close to when you do the change).
[color=blue]
> Would there likely be a pointless economy error in not having the
> brakes checked, even if they do not need it, in terms of the warranty
> compliance (again, even though the shop manager says that the brakes
> are fine) ?[/color]

Why would you need a brake check at 5k?

"FJ" <sec4251@remove the remove yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:gfomp2tcf8a67l96nm689fja1cqgl6j2jn@4ax.com...[color=blue]
> Wow, this really surprises me. A different kind responder suggested
> 10K before going to synthetic. And now a suggestion for waiting until
> 15-20K.
>
> My neighbor, the electrical engineer changed his oil to synthetic at
> One Thousand miles. I had planned to change to synthetic at 5K, on the
> good advice of Ray. Now I am looking at it again.
> Wow, 20K to break in an engine.
> Others concur ???[/color]

5K is fine. Others are just being paranoid. Some cars are now factory filled
with synthetic because they require it.

"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:459c041f$0$68995$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...[color=blue]
> Correct. However some dealers use 10W30. I wanted 5W30, and made the
> dealer change the oil a second time after they used 10W30 because that's
> all they had in the bulk tanks. I found it amusing that good independent
> shops will never use the incorrect oil because they are worried about
> liability, yet a dealer's service department will do what's cheaper. Same
> with newer Hondas that use 5W20. The good independent shops buy 5W20, even
> though it's expensive, while the Honda dealers (at least some of them) use
> 5W30 from the bulk tank.[/color]

Glad to see this documented once again. I have seen many, many people post
their experiences about dealer oil changes on this forum that they use
10W-30 instead of the recommended 5W-30 for exactly the reason stated. My
experience with Toyota dealer oil changes was exactly the same.

Unfortunately, Ray, who has a professional relationship with Toyota Motor
Corp (or at least did at one time) is in complete denial about this subject.

"Mark A" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:NcSdnaeEmp37jAbYnZ2dnUVZ_tCtnZ2d@comcast.com...[color=blue]
> "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote in message news:db1f5[color=green]
>> No offence, but if Toyota recommends 5W-30, I would follow Toyota's
>> recommendation over the recommendation of anyone else. Toyota is fairly
>> knowledgeable about the vehicles they build ;-)[/color]
>
> You have your opinion, and I have mine. If one waits until 75,000 miles
> before switching from conventional oil to synthetic, I would not use 5W-30
> synthetic because it is likely to slip past the worn rings. But an engine
> that has been running 5W-30 synthetic since relatively low mileage will
> not have enough engine wear for this to be a problem until extremely high
> mileage occurs.[/color]

That is not my opinion. That is the opinion of the folks who designed and
built the car. Conventional wisdom used to be that it was better to switch
to a heavier viscosity oil as the engine wore, or that thicker oil was
better than thinner oil. The lower number in a multi-viscosity oil
represents the viscosity when the engine is cold, such as startup, and 5W-30
will flow better at startup than 10W-30, so it will provide lubrication to
the engine's moving parts more quickly than 10W-30 will. If you are worried
about oil getting past the rings, then it is better to use 5W-40 than
10W-30.
[color=blue]
> You know, I find it amazing that you would make such a big deal about
> %W-30, since you regularly ridicule anyone who doesn't get their oil
> changed by a Toyota dealer. Anyone familiar with dealer operations (Toyota
> or otherwise) would know that at least 75% of them will use 10W-30 oil by
> default (since it is cheaper for them to stock only one viscosity of oil
> in drums).[/color]

I have never ridiculed anyone who doesn't get their oil changed by a dealer.
What I've said is that I am not impressed with quick lube places, and dealer
oil changes are not as high-priced as people think they are. There are
plenty of independent shops that provide good service, and if one does not
wish to use the dealer, IMO, an independent shop is a better option than a
quick lube place, or you can specify which oil viscosity you want the dealer
or whoever to install.
[color=blue]
>[color=green]
>> The receipts for the oil and filter, along with the date and odometer
>> reading are necessary. A signature by the owner and receipts for the oil
>> pan, filter wrench, jack, etc. are useless.[/color]
>
> Really? I didn't know that your were an expert in civil lawsuits and legal
> evidence. What the dealer needs is irrelevant. What a judge needs (or
> would like to see) is ultimately what matters.[/color]

I am not an expert in civil lawsuits and legal evidence, but from my time as
a district service manager, I am familiar with Toyota's warranty policies
and procedures and what Toyota requires for warranty coverage. The warranty
P&P has to be followed if the dealer wishes to be reimbursed for warranty
repairs, and it does not state anywhere that signatures on receipts are
required or that receipts for jacks, oil pans, etc. are required or should
be considered as mitigating circumstances.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Using Mobil 1 for oil changes does not improve or diminish the chances
>> that Toyota will approve or deny warranty coverage for an engine repair,
>> and saying that you use Mobil 1 will not impress the district service
>> manager (unless the DSM is new and doesn't know anything about cars).
>> Changing the oil yourself does not diminish the chances that you will get
>> warranty coverage on a defect. Toyota can deny a warranty claim for
>> plenty of reasons other than the lack of adequate oil changes, although
>> that is the most common reason that engines fail. Toyota will not deny
>> warranty coverage for defects in material or workmanship but they not
>> cover lack of proper maintenance, failure or damage caused by non-Toyota
>> parts, abuse, or modifications that cause a failure.
>> --
>>
>> Ray O[/color]
>
> If the dealer has a wild ass suspicion (but has no real evidence) that a
> warranty problem is caused by lack of oil regular oil changes, letting him
> know that Mobil 1 was used on a regular basis, and that receipts are
> available, might just save everyone a lot of time barking up the wrong
> tree. It is true that a service manager should not jump to wild
> conclusions, but service mangers are human and some of them are
> incompetent and some are assholes. A Toyota district service manager (as
> opposed to the dealer service manager) is likely to be better, but if you
> have to talk to a DSM then an attempt has already been made by the dealer
> to intimidate the consumer.
>[/color]

The only requirement for motor oil is that the viscosity specified by the
manufacturer is used, that the oil bears the proper API rating, and that the
oil and oil filter are changed according to the manufacturer's maintenance
schedule. I am not saying that Mobil 1 is bad, but for warranty coverage
purposes, it will not help or hurt.
[color=blue]
> Changing the oil yourself does not diminish the chances that you will get
> warranty coverage because we are not talking about the odds of a poker
> hand. I clearly said that it is OK for warranty purposes to do the oil
> change yourself and document it, but the definition of proper
> documentation is invariably subject to interpretation, and the more doc
> you have, the better off you will be.[/color]
[color=blue]
> I have often changed the oil on my 98 V6 Camry XLE myself (Mobil 1 5W-30
> since 5K miles). I have no hesitation recommending that others who can
> change it themselves also do so.[/color]

The definition of proper documentation may be subject to interpretation on
the part of owners, but the requirements listed in the owner's manual and
warranty guide are all that you need.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

"FJ" <sec4251@remove the remove yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:gfomp2tcf8a67l96nm689fja1cqgl6j2jn@4ax.com...[color=blue]
> On Tue, 02 Jan 2007 23:13:21 -0800, SoCalMike
> <mikeinthe562athotmail@hotmail.com> wrote:
>[color=green]
>>FJ wrote:[color=darkred]
>>> Perhaps silly, but Synthetic Oil weight correlate exactly to
>>> convention oil weights ?
>>>
>>> I am coming up to the first oil change - 5K.
>>>
>>> Obviously Toyota put the original oil in the crackcase and I did not.
>>>
>>> Per my manual it reads 5W-30 for oil for the 2006 4runner.
>>>
>>> I have purchased 5w 30 Mobil 1 and a Mobil 1 oil filter for the 5K -
>>> that would be the appropriate weight, should it not ?[/color]
>>
>>it would, but i really wouldnt consider switching to synthetic until
>>15-20k miles, just to make sure the engine is completely broken in.[/color]
>
> Wow, this really surprises me. A different kind responder suggested
> 10K before going to synthetic. And now a suggestion for waiting until
> 15-20K.
>
> My neighbor, the electrical engineer changed his oil to synthetic at
> One Thousand miles. I had planned to change to synthetic at 5K, on the
> good advice of Ray. Now I am looking at it again.
> Wow, 20K to break in an engine.
> Others concur ???
>[/color]

If you want to switch to synthetic, wait until at least the 2nd oil change
(10K). Any time after that is OK.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

"Mark A" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:-7OdnUfy9rNV3QHYnZ2dnUVZ_s-rnZ2d@comcast.com...[color=blue]
> "SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
> news:459c041f$0$68995$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...[color=green]
>> Correct. However some dealers use 10W30. I wanted 5W30, and made the
>> dealer change the oil a second time after they used 10W30 because that's
>> all they had in the bulk tanks. I found it amusing that good independent
>> shops will never use the incorrect oil because they are worried about
>> liability, yet a dealer's service department will do what's cheaper. Same
>> with newer Hondas that use 5W20. The good independent shops buy 5W20,
>> even though it's expensive, while the Honda dealers (at least some of
>> them) use 5W30 from the bulk tank.[/color]
>
> Glad to see this documented once again. I have seen many, many people post
> their experiences about dealer oil changes on this forum that they use
> 10W-30 instead of the recommended 5W-30 for exactly the reason stated. My
> experience with Toyota dealer oil changes was exactly the same.
>
> Unfortunately, Ray, who has a professional relationship with Toyota Motor
> Corp (or at least did at one time) is in complete denial about this
> subject.[/color]
Complete denial? I do not recall ever saying that dealerships always use
the correct oil. Better go back and read what I've posted.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)