Another nail in GM's coffin, another gem in Toyota's crown

[url]http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16639567/[/url]

I think a key comment in this article is that Toyota and its workers don't
just rest on their laurels, but keep trying to make the product better.

It shows.

Natalie

--


"Wicked little doll, you are not human;
wicked little doll, you have no soul."
(David Byrne, 1997)

"Wickeddoll®" <wickeddoll1958diespammersdie@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:eojcm4.1ug.1@news.evilcabal.org...[color=blue]
> [url]http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16639567/[/url]
>
> I think a key comment in this article is that Toyota and its workers don't
> just rest on their laurels, but keep trying to make the product better.
>
> It shows.
>
> Natalie[/color]

Looks like a damage control article written by the Toyota PR department to
me. Not all is so wonderful in Toyotaland -

*Numerous articles have documented that Toyota quality is slipping.
* Last year Toyota recalled more cars in the US than they sold new cars in
the US.
* Toyota canned several high level managers and stared an internal study to
figure out why quality is slipping.
* Many Toyota models are at or near the bottom of their classes in Insurance
Industry injury loss ratings.
* The new Tundra factory is late and over budget.
* The new Tundra is late and is perceived to be too little too late.
* Scion model sales dropped by 9% to 20% from December 2005 to December
2006.
* The "new" Camry is suffering from transmission problems .
* There are numerous complaints about mysterious acceleration lags for both
the Camry and new RAV4.

Read the fluff, but take it with a grain of salt...

Ed

Is Toyotathon really an eleven month event - or does it just seem that way?

"C. E. White" <cewhite@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:tdArh.15766$X72.5176@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...[color=blue]
>
> "Wickeddoll®" <wickeddoll1958diespammersdie@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:eojcm4.1ug.1@news.evilcabal.org...[color=green]
>> [url]http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16639567/[/url]
>>
>> I think a key comment in this article is that Toyota and its workers
>> don't just rest on their laurels, but keep trying to make the product
>> better.
>>
>> It shows.
>>
>> Natalie[/color]
>
> Looks like a damage control article written by the Toyota PR department to
> me. Not all is so wonderful in Toyotaland -
>
> *Numerous articles have documented that Toyota quality is slipping.[/color]

Where? GM Monthly?
[color=blue]
> * Last year Toyota recalled more cars in the US than they sold new cars in
> the US.[/color]

But for what - bad cupholders? I haven't seen a serious recall of a Toyota
in a very long time. You have proof?
[color=blue]
> * Toyota canned several high level managers and stared an internal study
> to figure out why quality is slipping.[/color]

You've just validated what I said earlier. They *keep trying to make the
product better*, instead of just sitting on their laures as number one - the
mistake GM so obviously made.
[color=blue]
> * Many Toyota models are at or near the bottom of their classes in
> Insurance Industry injury loss ratings.[/color]

I'll grant you that - most are small, and thus not as protective. But I'm
philosophical about that; there will always be something bigger to flatten
you, unless you're driving a semi.
[color=blue]
> * The new Tundra factory is late and over budget.
> * The new Tundra is late and is perceived to be too little too late.[/color]

Toyota's weakest point are larger vehicles. I've said that many times, if
you've read my posts. If I were in the market for a large, gas-guzzling
vehicle, I go domestic.
[color=blue]
> * Scion model sales dropped by 9% to 20% from December 2005 to December
> 2006.[/color]

That's cuz folks like my husband already bought them all. LOL Seriously,
not all cars are going to be popular, so what does this prove? It doesn't
damn the cars themselves, just means the public didn't take to them as well.
So what?
[color=blue]
> * The "new" Camry is suffering from transmission problems .[/color]

Like what ?
[color=blue]
> * There are numerous complaints about mysterious acceleration lags for
> both the Camry and new RAV4.[/color]

Show me, please?[color=blue]
>
> Read the fluff, but take it with a grain of salt...
>
> Ed
>[/color]

I'm afraid that's what I've done with most of your post. You present no
proof, but make many allegations.

Natalie

Wickeddoll®
[color=blue][color=green]
>> * There are numerous complaints about
>> mysterious acceleration lags for both the
>> Camry and new RAV4.[/color][/color]
[color=blue]
> Show me, please?[/color]
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Read the fluff, but take it with a grain of salt...[/color][/color]
[color=blue]
> I'm afraid that's what I've done with most of your
> post. You present no proof, but make many
> allegations.[/color]

From the month-long research marathon on my next vehicle, there is no way
any of this "fluff" is real.
_________
===fish===
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

Wickeddoll® wrote:
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Read the fluff, but take it with a grain of salt...
>>
>> Ed
>>[/color]
>
> I'm afraid that's what I've done with most of your post. You present no
> proof, but make many allegations.
>
> Natalie[/color]

Please don't feed the trolls.

"High Tech Misfit" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:1aaxoljcoxsn7$.dlg@hightech.misfit...[color=blue]
> Wickeddoll® wrote:
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>>> Read the fluff, but take it with a grain of salt...
>>>
>>> Ed
>>>[/color]
>>
>> I'm afraid that's what I've done with most of your post. You present no
>> proof, but make many allegations.
>>
>> Natalie[/color]
>
> Please don't feed the trolls.[/color]

Well, you know me - I like to hear all points of view. Even when they're
dead wrong.

:-)

Natalie

"fish" <i.am.such.ah.fish@new.york> wrote in message
news:YCArh.1751$R76.298@trnddc05...[color=blue]
> Wickeddoll®
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>>> * There are numerous complaints about
>>> mysterious acceleration lags for both the
>>> Camry and new RAV4.[/color][/color]
>[color=green]
>> Show me, please?[/color]
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>>> Read the fluff, but take it with a grain of salt...[/color][/color]
>[color=green]
>> I'm afraid that's what I've done with most of your
>> post. You present no proof, but make many
>> allegations.[/color]
>
> From the month-long research marathon on my next vehicle, there is no way
> any of this "fluff" is real.
> _________
> ===fish===
> ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
>[/color]
Have you decided yet? Or have you even narrowed them down?

Natalie

On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 20:56:20 -0500, "Wickeddoll®"
<wickeddoll1958diespammersdie@yahoo.com> wrote:
[color=blue][color=green]
>> * Many Toyota models are at or near the bottom of their classes in
>> Insurance Industry injury loss ratings.[/color]
>
>I'll grant you that - most are small, and thus not as protective. But I'm
>philosophical about that; there will always be something bigger to flatten
>you, unless you're driving a semi.[/color]

That is an EXCELLENT point!

Everyone should drive like they are in a VW bug and imagine
that everyone else is in an 18 wheeler.


--

Scott in Florida

Wickeddoll® respectfully adds...
[color=blue][color=green]
>> From the month-long research marathon on
>> my next vehicle, there is no way any of this
>> "fluff" is real.[/color][/color]
[color=blue]
> Have you decided yet?[/color]

Almost there. I am learning as much as I can with this newsgroup.
[color=blue]
> Or have you even narrowed them down?[/color]

Here is where I am in the deciding stage:

Toyota\ RAV 4 \Limited trim\ colors = undecided \ most options decided \
some options considering.

When I decide (hopefully this weekend) on every option, I will then present
it to the dealer and if they have it in stock, will proceed from there.

If they do not have it in stock, I will not even discuss price.

This way, they must grab it as it arrives, hold it for me (almost guarantee
I will be the first test driver, meaning that most original miles will be
mine).

My 1997 Saturn had only 2 miles on the odometer when I bought it, so I was
the only test driver.

The last test drive I took of the RAV 4 was about 20 miles on the turnpike.
_________
===fish===
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

"fish" <i.am.such.ah.fish@new.york> wrote in message
news:AeBrh.5224$9B6.2064@trnddc07...[color=blue]
> Wickeddoll® respectfully adds...
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>>> From the month-long research marathon on
>>> my next vehicle, there is no way any of this
>>> "fluff" is real.[/color][/color]
>[color=green]
>> Have you decided yet?[/color]
>
> Almost there. I am learning as much as I can with this newsgroup.
>[color=green]
>> Or have you even narrowed them down?[/color]
>
> Here is where I am in the deciding stage:
>
> Toyota\ RAV 4 \Limited trim\ colors = undecided \ most options decided \
> some options considering.[/color]

We really liked the early Ravs, but they've shaved off so much of the
original styling. It just doesn't look as different as it had.[color=blue]
>
> When I decide (hopefully this weekend) on every option, I will then
> present it to the dealer and if they have it in stock, will proceed from
> there.
>
> If they do not have it in stock, I will not even discuss price.
>
> This way, they must grab it as it arrives, hold it for me (almost
> guarantee I will be the first test driver, meaning that most original
> miles will be mine).[/color]

Smart![color=blue]
>
> My 1997 Saturn had only 2 miles on the odometer when I bought it, so I was
> the only test driver.
>
> The last test drive I took of the RAV 4 was about 20 miles on the
> turnpike.
> _________
> ===fish===
> ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
>[/color]

I took my Echo up the steepest incline I knew of in that area (we lived in
New Hampshire at the time, and I bought it in Vermont - no sales tax for NH
residents!). I knew the true test of a car in that environment would be
taking those nasty mountain roads.

Natalie

On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 02:49:04 GMT, "fish" <i.am.such.ah.fish@new.york>
wrote:
[color=blue]
>Wickeddoll® respectfully adds...
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>>> From the month-long research marathon on
>>> my next vehicle, there is no way any of this
>>> "fluff" is real.[/color][/color]
>[color=green]
>> Have you decided yet?[/color]
>
>Almost there. I am learning as much as I can with this newsgroup.
>[color=green]
>> Or have you even narrowed them down?[/color]
>
>Here is where I am in the deciding stage:
>
>Toyota\ RAV 4 \Limited trim\ colors = undecided \ most options decided \
>some options considering.
>
>When I decide (hopefully this weekend) on every option, I will then present
>it to the dealer and if they have it in stock, will proceed from there.
>
>If they do not have it in stock, I will not even discuss price.
>
>This way, they must grab it as it arrives, hold it for me (almost guarantee
>I will be the first test driver, meaning that most original miles will be
>mine).
>
>My 1997 Saturn had only 2 miles on the odometer when I bought it, so I was
>the only test driver.
>
>The last test drive I took of the RAV 4 was about 20 miles on the turnpike.
>_________
>===fish===
>¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
>[/color]

One thing you might try.

Get quotes from dealers via the Internet.

It is a civilized way to buy a car.

When my Air Force son wanted a car we searched the country for
the exact model he wanted.

We ended up flying to Philadelphia and picking up the car.

We got a 'road trip' in the new car and NO hassle with the dealer at
all.


--

Scott in Florida

On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 21:40:20 -0500, "Wickeddoll®"
<wickeddoll1958diespammersdie@yahoo.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>
>"Scott in Florida"
>"Wickeddoll®"[color=green]
>> wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>>> * Many Toyota models are at or near the bottom of their classes in
>>>> Insurance Industry injury loss ratings.
>>>
>>>I'll grant you that - most are small, and thus not as protective. But
>>>I'm
>>>philosophical about that; there will always be something bigger to
>>>flatten
>>>you, unless you're driving a semi.[/color]
>>
>> That is an EXCELLENT point!
>>
>> Everyone should drive like they are in a VW bug and imagine
>> that everyone else is in an 18 wheeler.
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Scott in Florida
>>[/color]
>
>I always do, no matter what I'm driving!
>
>Except, let's go with my Echo, instead of the bug - much more reliable.
>
>:-)[/color]
[color=blue]
>
>Natalie
>[/color]

LOL...I was gonna say Echo, but I KNEW you would
pipe up....


--

Scott in Florida

On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 03:50:04 +0000, fish wrote:
[color=blue][color=green]
>> We ended up flying to Philadelphia and picking up the car.[/color]
>
> That is crazy!
>
> You have to fly the car back home - I don't know what the expense would be
> for that.[/color]


Well, C5s could be had for a song before 2003...

"Wickeddoll®" <wickeddoll1958diespammersdie@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:eomadq.7c.1@news.evilcabal.org...
<snipped>[color=blue]
> I took my Echo up the steepest incline I knew of in that area (we lived in
> New Hampshire at the time, and I bought it in Vermont - no sales tax for
> NH residents!).[/color]

Oh, wow! Sales tax can be a killer. It was close to 10% here for a while.
And on big-ticket items, such as cars... arghh. I paid about $1500 tax on my
'04 Corolla. *Then*, the State also collects sales tax when the car's
resold as used, down the road. Greedy, greedy.

Cathy

I knew the true test of a car in that environment would be[color=blue]
> taking those nasty mountain roads.
>
> Natalie
>[/color]

"Cathy F." ...[color=blue]
>
> "Wickeddoll®" ...
> <snipped>[color=green]
>> I took my Echo up the steepest incline I knew of in that area (we lived
>> in New Hampshire at the time, and I bought it in Vermont - no sales tax
>> for NH residents!).[/color]
>
> Oh, wow! Sales tax can be a killer. It was close to 10% here for a
> while. And on big-ticket items, such as cars... arghh. I paid about $1500
> tax on my '04 Corolla. *Then*, the State also collects sales tax when the
> car's resold as used, down the road. Greedy, greedy.
>
> Cathy
>
> I knew the true test of a car in that environment would be[color=green]
>> taking those nasty mountain roads.
>>
>> Natalie
>>[/color]
>
>[/color]
So, do you still love New Yawk?

:-)

Natalie