Toyota Corolla 2005 Oil Sludge / Gelling

I have a 2005 Corolla with 47000 miles. All seems well and I have been
changing the oil every 5000 miles. Mostly highway miles. I looked in
the oil filler cap, shined a flashlight down the filler hole and checked
the dip stick. All look pristine. I have heard some 2000 era Corollas
have had disastrous engine failures do to bad sludge build up despite
good maintenance. Has anyone seen this with later Corollas.


.....Larry

On Thu, 1 Feb 2007 16:34:13 -0800, Larry <someone@somewhere.com>
wrote:
[color=blue]
>I have a 2005 Corolla with 47000 miles. All seems well and I have been
>changing the oil every 5000 miles. Mostly highway miles. I looked in
>the oil filler cap, shined a flashlight down the filler hole and checked
>the dip stick. All look pristine. I have heard some 2000 era Corollas
>have had disastrous engine failures do to bad sludge build up despite
>good maintenance. Has anyone seen this with later Corollas.
>
>
>....Larry[/color]

I thought the sludge thing was only on v6 engines in some camry's ?

"RT" <noyabusiness@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:sj85s2p80jf3d7hd4ic5ma4jj32a7833il@4ax.com...
[color=blue]
> I thought the sludge thing was only on v6 engines in some camry's ?[/color]

According to Consumer Reports the following Toyota engines are sludge prone:

1997-2001 Lexus/Toyota 3.0L V-6
1996 -2001 2.2L 4

For more information see:

[url]http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/maintenance-accessories/engine-sludge-1205/overview/index.htm[/url]
or [url]http://tinyurl.com/pfj6m[/url]

Sludge: Jumping through hoops to make a case

Some 4.7 million engines sold in the U.S. may be prone to developing sludge.

A killer named sludge may live in your engine and can choke the life from
your car, regardless of maintenance or mileage. And the automakers whose
engines are susceptible to sludge still aren't always eager to help.

Sludge often forms when oil oxidizes and breaks down after prolonged
exposure to high temperatures. The baked oil turns gelatinous and can block
vital oil passages, which could lead to repairs exceeding $8,000 or even an
engine replacement.

While sludge often results from poor upkeep, notably not changing oil at
prescribed intervals, some engines from Audi, Chrysler, Saab, Toyota, and
Volkswagen appear prone to it (see the chart below).

The Center for Auto Safety says it received about 1,300 sludge complaints in
the first half of 2005. Toyota, the company with the most engines in
question, cited 3,400 complaints through 2002 but hasn't provided an updated
number since. And while about 4.7 million engines sold in the U.S. may have
sludge-prone designs, the problem rate as reflected in our reliability data
is very low. But that's little solace to those affected by it.

The automakers initially blamed these concerns on poor care and resisted
covering repair costs. However, all but Chrysler have begun replacement or
repair programs, even for those who bought their vehicles used. Chrysler
says it will handle sludge complaints individually.


AUTOMAKERS play tough

These programs put the burden of proof on the owner, however. While Toyota,
Lexus, Audi, Saab, and Volkswagen have extended engine coverage to eight
years from the original purchase, the deals come with fine print.

Volkswagen's policy requires that customers produce all oil-change records.
Saab will repair or replace its engines only after its own maintenance
review, and Toyota asks for proof of at least one oil change a year.

Those conditions would require attentive record-keeping for original owners,
but it could cause headaches for used-vehicle owners. Even with the extended
engine warranties, some consumers are denied repair compensation when they
first approach the manufacturer.

When Sarah Bolek's 2001 Volkswagen Passat hit 59,000 miles in 2004, the
engine succumbed to sludge. The repair estimate was $9,000, says Bolek, who
lives in Boyds, Md.

Despite the warranty, Volkswagen originally turned down her reimbursement
request. The automaker objected to two oil changes because a shop had not
recorded the vehicle's mileage. Still, all the oil changes were within
recommended intervals.

"They kept telling me it was my fault," Bolek says. Meanwhile the car was
out of service for four months.

When contacted by CR, the company said that it was investigating Bolek's
claim and that it had paid for part of the repair. A week later, it picked
up the balance of Bolek's bill.

Clarence Ditlow, executive director of the Center for Auto Safety, says
consumers must be persistent with dealers and manufacturers concerning
sludge. "Too few consumers complain beyond the dealer," he says.
"Manufacturers know that every hurdle they create will make more consumers
drop out."


HOW TO FIGHT SLUDGE

Consumer Reports urges vehicle owners to keep thorough records of their
automobile maintenance and repairs and make sure all receipts contain the
date, mileage, and vehicle identification number.

CR also recommends that owners of vehicles with sludge-prone engines use an
American Petroleum Institute-approved synthetic motor oil or change oil
according to the "extreme use" schedule in the vehicle's manual.

Synthetics have a higher tolerance for extreme heat and flow better in cold
temperatures. When using any oil, be sure it meets manufacturer viscosity
guidelines.

Changing oil on the extreme use schedule (and saving the records) provides
evidence that you tried to protect the engine from sludge.

Used-car buyers considering those vehicles should locate one with complete
maintenance records.

Engines in question

Makes / Engine / Models and years / U.S. engine population / *New-engine
warranty
Audi/Volkswagen / 1.8L 4 turbo / 1997-2004 Audi A4, Volkswagen
Passat447,0008 years/unlimited mileage
Chrysler/Dodge2.7L V-61998-2002 Chrysler Concorde, Chrysler Sebring, Dodge
Intrepid, Dodge Stratus797,000None. Chrysler will handle on a case-by-case
basis
Lexus/Toyota3.0L V-61997-2001 Lexus ES300,
Toyota Camry, Toyota Avalon, Toyota Sienna;
1999-2001 Lexus RX300,
Toyota Camry Solara;
2001 Toyota Highlander1,577,0008 years/unlimited mileage
2.2L 41997-2001 Toyota Camry,
1996-99 Toyota Celica,
1999-2001 Toyota Camry Solara1,757,0008 years/unlimited mileage
Saab2.0L 4 turbo2000-02 9-3 hatchback,
2000-03 9-3 convertible82,0008 years/unlimited mileage
2.3L 4 turbo1999-2003 Saab 9-5,
1999 9-3 Viggen68,0008 years/unlimited mileage
* Source: Analysis from Ward's Auto Info Bank (approximate).

On Fri, 02 Feb 2007 04:10:59 GMT, "C. E. White"
<cewhite@mindspring.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>While sludge often results from poor upkeep, notably not changing oil at
>prescribed intervals[/color]

Here is the answer....

Change your oil....


BINGO no sludge...

--

Scott in Florida

'Let every nation know, whether it
wishes us well or ill, that we shall
pay any price, bear any burden,
meet any hardship, support any friend,
oppose any foe to assure the survival
and the success of liberty.'

John F. Kennedy

Thought they were with 5SFE and 1MZFE engines used in Toyota Camrys
and Lexus ES300s. Don't know about Corollas.


On Feb 1, 4:34 pm, Larry <some...@somewhere.com> wrote:[color=blue]
> I have a 2005 Corolla with 47000 miles. All seems well and I have been
> changing the oil every 5000 miles. Mostly highway miles. I looked in
> the oil filler cap, shined a flashlight down the filler hole and checked
> the dip stick. All look pristine. I have heard some 2000 era Corollas
> have had disastrous engine failures do to bad sludge build up despite
> good maintenance. Has anyone seen this with later Corollas.
>
> ....Larry[/color]

V6 and L4's alike, in both the Toyota and Lexus lines.

When Toyota cranked up the cylinder head temperature to help with
emissions (for the then new Low Emissions Vehicle status) it cooked
the oil in the cylinder head. So the sludge in these engines begin to
form in the cylinder head instead of in the oil pan like when people
didn't change their oil on time. It then gradually blocks off oil from
flowing back into the pan and the engine seizes.

Toyota is settling the Meckstroth class action law suit this month to
actually compensate people for sludged up engines like they said they
were going to do but didn't.


On Feb 1, 6:31 pm, RT <noyabusin...@yahoo.com> wrote:[color=blue]
> I thought the sludge thing was only on v6 engines in some camry's ?[/color]

"Larry" <someone@somewhere.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.202c26dfee7854ae989697@newsgroups.comcast.net...[color=blue]
>I have a 2005 Corolla with 47000 miles. All seems well and I have been
> changing the oil every 5000 miles. Mostly highway miles. I looked in
> the oil filler cap, shined a flashlight down the filler hole and checked
> the dip stick. All look pristine. I have heard some 2000 era Corollas
> have had disastrous engine failures do to bad sludge build up despite
> good maintenance. Has anyone seen this with later Corollas.
>
>
> ....Larry[/color]

I have not heard of any sludge complaints in Corollas of any age, other than
in vehicles that have not had oil changes performed at reasonable intervals.
Keep changing the oil and you are unlikely to encounter any sludge problems.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

"Larry" <someone@somewhere.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.202c26dfee7854ae989697@newsgroups.comcast.net...[color=blue]
>I have a 2005 Corolla with 47000 miles. All seems well and I have been
> changing the oil every 5000 miles. Mostly highway miles. I looked in
> the oil filler cap, shined a flashlight down the filler hole and checked
> the dip stick. All look pristine. I have heard some 2000 era Corollas
> have had disastrous engine failures do to bad sludge build up despite
> good maintenance. Has anyone seen this with later Corollas.[/color]

Larry,

Use a "fully synthetic " oil like Mobil 1. This will not sludge up and it
actually keeps the inside very clean, and you can keep it in until the
manufacturers change intervals, not 5,000 miles.

On Fri, 02 Feb 2007 04:30:46 GMT, "C. E. White"
<cewhite@mindspring.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>
>"Scott in Florida" <askifyouwant@mindspring.net> wrote in message
>news:dje5s2tsgg16ahfs82o4v90f2hrtp863de@4ax.com...[color=green]
>> On Fri, 02 Feb 2007 04:10:59 GMT, "C. E. White"
>> <cewhite@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>>While sludge often results from poor upkeep, notably not changing oil at
>>>prescribed intervals[/color]
>>
>> Here is the answer....
>>
>> Change your oil....
>>
>>
>> BINGO no sludge...[/color]
>
>I actually agree with this, BUT, how come only some engines are on the
>sludge prone list. Are GM and Ford and Nissan owners better at maintaining
>their cars? Were Toyota owners that bought Toyotas before 1996 or after 2001
>more likely to change their oil regularly than people that bought Toyotas
>from 1997 to 2001? How do YOU explain that for a five year period certain
>Toyota engines seemed to have a significant sludge problem? Just how often
>do you think they should have changed their oil? Do you keep detailed oil
>change records and receipts? I write oil changes down in my log book, but
>since I change my own oil, I doubt that Toyota would consider than
>sufficient evidence. Fortunately, I've never had the need to complain about
>sludge buildup, but then it has been a long time since I owned a Toyota.
>
>Ed[/color]

I'm sure some engines will sludge before others, but the cause is not
changing your oil.

I can't understand how someone can pay as much as the sludge moaners
and not take care of their machines...


--

Scott in Florida

'Let every nation know, whether it
wishes us well or ill, that we shall
pay any price, bear any burden,
meet any hardship, support any friend,
oppose any foe to assure the survival
and the success of liberty.'

John F. Kennedy

On 1 Feb 2007 20:41:55 -0800, [email]johngdole@hotmail.com[/email] wrote:
[color=blue]
>V6 and L4's alike, in both the Toyota and Lexus lines.
>
>When Toyota cranked up the cylinder head temperature to help with
>emissions (for the then new Low Emissions Vehicle status) it cooked
>the oil in the cylinder head. So the sludge in these engines begin to
>form in the cylinder head instead of in the oil pan like when people
>didn't change their oil on time. It then gradually blocks off oil from
>flowing back into the pan and the engine seizes.[/color]

That is simply B/S.....

I have not talked to as single Toyota Tech that has said that a
sludged engine had had the oil changed when it was supposed to be
changed.

ALL ENGINES WILL SLUDGE IF YOU DON"T CHANGE YOUR OIL....

[color=blue]
>
>Toyota is settling the Meckstroth class action law suit this month to
>actually compensate people for sludged up engines like they said they
>were going to do but didn't.
>
>
>On Feb 1, 6:31 pm, RT <noyabusin...@yahoo.com> wrote:[color=green]
>> I thought the sludge thing was only on v6 engines in some camry's ?[/color]
>[/color]
--

Scott in Florida

'Let every nation know, whether it
wishes us well or ill, that we shall
pay any price, bear any burden,
meet any hardship, support any friend,
oppose any foe to assure the survival
and the success of liberty.'

John F. Kennedy

On Fri, 02 Feb 2007 04:10:59 GMT, "C. E. White"
<cewhite@mindspring.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>
>"RT" <noyabusiness@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:sj85s2p80jf3d7hd4ic5ma4jj32a7833il@4ax.com...
>[color=green]
>> I thought the sludge thing was only on v6 engines in some camry's ?[/color]
>
>According to Consumer Reports the following Toyota engines are sludge prone:
>
>1997-2001 Lexus/Toyota 3.0L V-6
>1996 -2001 2.2L 4
>
>For more information see:
>
>[url]http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/maintenance-accessories/engine-sludge-1205/overview/index.htm[/url]
>or [url]http://tinyurl.com/pfj6m[/url]
>
>Sludge: Jumping through hoops to make a case
>
>Some 4.7 million engines sold in the U.S. may be prone to developing sludge.
>
>A killer named sludge may live in your engine and can choke the life from
>your car, regardless of maintenance or mileage. And the automakers whose
>engines are susceptible to sludge still aren't always eager to help.
>
>Sludge often forms when oil oxidizes and breaks down after prolonged
>exposure to high temperatures. The baked oil turns gelatinous and can block
>vital oil passages, which could lead to repairs exceeding $8,000 or even an
>engine replacement.[/color]

SNIP
$8,000.00 Is that the cost of an engine replacement - one time - not
the usual if not this then that and why don't you try and come back
any time???

I would guess (based on experience years ago) about half that
including a new transmission.
jl

On Fri, 02 Feb 2007 04:30:46 GMT, "C. E. White"
<cewhite@mindspring.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>
>"Scott in Florida" <askifyouwant@mindspring.net> wrote in message
>news:dje5s2tsgg16ahfs82o4v90f2hrtp863de@4ax.com...[color=green]
>> On Fri, 02 Feb 2007 04:10:59 GMT, "C. E. White"
>> <cewhite@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>>While sludge often results from poor upkeep, notably not changing oil at
>>>prescribed intervals[/color]
>>
>> Here is the answer....
>>
>> Change your oil....
>>
>>
>> BINGO no sludge...[/color]
>
>I actually agree with this, BUT, how come only some engines are on the
>sludge prone list. Are GM and Ford and Nissan owners better at maintaining
>their cars? Were Toyota owners that bought Toyotas before 1996 or after 2001
>more likely to change their oil regularly than people that bought Toyotas
>from 1997 to 2001? How do YOU explain that for a five year period certain
>Toyota engines seemed to have a significant sludge problem? Just how often
>do you think they should have changed their oil? Do you keep detailed oil
>change records and receipts? I write oil changes down in my log book, but
>since I change my own oil, I doubt that Toyota would consider than
>sufficient evidence. Fortunately, I've never had the need to complain about
>sludge buildup, but then it has been a long time since I owned a Toyota.
>
>Ed
>[/color]

These cars are more prone to build up sludge then others. If the oil
doesn't get changed on time, these engines will have severe sludge.
All engines will get sludge build up from neglect, the engines in the
article just a lot sooner.
It's the design of the engine I guess.

In article <g8l7s2h8uk2aoqhaolq625glrfocek25co@4ax.com>,
RT <noyabusiness@yahoo.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
> On Fri, 02 Feb 2007 04:30:46 GMT, "C. E. White"
> <cewhite@mindspring.com> wrote:
>[color=green]
> >
> >"Scott in Florida" <askifyouwant@mindspring.net> wrote in message
> >news:dje5s2tsgg16ahfs82o4v90f2hrtp863de@4ax.com...[color=darkred]
> >> On Fri, 02 Feb 2007 04:10:59 GMT, "C. E. White"
> >> <cewhite@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>While sludge often results from poor upkeep, notably not changing oil at
> >>>prescribed intervals
> >>
> >> Here is the answer....
> >>
> >> Change your oil....
> >>
> >>
> >> BINGO no sludge...[/color]
> >
> >I actually agree with this, BUT, how come only some engines are on the
> >sludge prone list. Are GM and Ford and Nissan owners better at maintaining
> >their cars? Were Toyota owners that bought Toyotas before 1996 or after 2001
> >more likely to change their oil regularly than people that bought Toyotas
> >from 1997 to 2001? How do YOU explain that for a five year period certain
> >Toyota engines seemed to have a significant sludge problem? Just how often
> >do you think they should have changed their oil? Do you keep detailed oil
> >change records and receipts? I write oil changes down in my log book, but
> >since I change my own oil, I doubt that Toyota would consider than
> >sufficient evidence. Fortunately, I've never had the need to complain about
> >sludge buildup, but then it has been a long time since I owned a Toyota.
> >
> >Ed
> >[/color]
>
> These cars are more prone to build up sludge then others. If the oil
> doesn't get changed on time, these engines will have severe sludge.
> All engines will get sludge build up from neglect, the engines in the
> article just a lot sooner.
> It's the design of the engine I guess.[/color]

Why would that be? Cleaner burning maybe, I don't know, but would like
to know.
--