Re: Prius seldom runs on batteries alone?

"Gordon McGrew" <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:n5q7t2dpf42gmp0vu71qipj66k6p4tbt0i@4ax.com...[color=blue]
>
> I rode in a friend's Prius and he showed me that the engine started up
> before he hit 5 mph even under mild acceleration. I thought the
> difference between the "full" hybrids like Prius and "mild" hybrids
> like the Civic was the ability of the former to operate as a pure
> electric over a modest range of conditions. It would seem that the
> Prius' all electric performance is very modest indeed. Is this
> correct?[/color]

You can find more expertise at alt.autos.toyota.prius. They will also want
to know what year, since there are significant differences between the
Classic (2001-2003) and the second generation (2004+). Ours are both
Classics (2002), so I'll go from that perspective.

As the others indicate, there are a lot of variables. Cold weather makes it
much more prone to run the engine in order to produce heat, which passengers
seem to enjoy :-) The state of hybrid battery charge will affect it, too,
including the entirely counter-intuitive behavior of restarting the engine
periodically to bleed off extra charge if the state of charge is high.

Cold weather, particularly as the temperature drops below freezing, will
take the edge off fuel efficiency. I'm barely managing 30 mpg with mainly 3
mile trips in subfreezing weather right now, but when the weather warms up
it will go back into the mid-40s. OTOH, what other car would provide 30 mpg
under those conditions?

Mostly, the hybrid system knows what to do. There have been reports of
misbehavior - especially shuddering when the engine shuts down - that have
been corrected by disconnecting the 12 volt "aux" battery for a few minutes.
Maybe the car should have ctrl-alt-del keys ;-)

Mike

"RT" <noyabusiness@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:lmcat2999tukg436snqrbeehj5413rlkbk@4ax.com...[color=blue]
> On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 05:50:19 -0700, "Michael Pardee"
> <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote:[color=green]
>>
>>Cold weather, particularly as the temperature drops below freezing, will
>>take the edge off fuel efficiency. I'm barely managing 30 mpg with mainly
>>3
>>mile trips in subfreezing weather right now, but when the weather warms up
>>it will go back into the mid-40s. OTOH, what other car would provide 30
>>mpg
>>under those conditions?[/color]
>
> In cold weather get 30mpg ? uh, the corolla will easily do that.
>[/color]

Not in three mile trips from a cold start on snowy streets, seldom exceeding
28 mph and sometimes with chains, I bet.

The weather has cleared and I'm into the 40s again (three mile trips and
all).

Mike

"Bill Tuthill" <ccreekin@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:45d5ee8c@news.meer.net...[color=blue]
> In alt.autos.toyota RT <noyabusiness@yahoo.com> wrote:[color=green]
>>
>> In cold weather get 30mpg ? uh, the corolla will easily do that.[/color]
>
> A driver is a total weenie if he or she cannot get > 50 MPG
> from a Prius, even in cold weather.
>[/color]

Short trips are the big killer (same as with conventional power trains).
Cold weather means the warm-up time is extended, and short trips mean the
driving is mainly in warm-up mode. The rule of thumb is that a cold engine
will burn about twice the fuel of a warm one, and the Prius follows that
pretty closely.

Mike

In alt.autos.toyota [email]mrv@kluge.net[/email] <mrv@kluge.net> wrote:[color=blue]
>
> 2004-2007 UK tire
> Bridgestone Turanza ER30
> 195/55R16
> 87V[/color]

That would go partway to explaining why a US Prius gets better mileage
than a UK Prius. Although I can't find the exact size, Turanza have
significantly higher rolling resistance than Goodyear Integrity tires.
Also the 195 versus 185 width increases aerodynamic drag.

[url]http://onlinepubs.trb.org/onlinepubs/sr/SR286Rolling_Resistance_Data.pdf[/url]

In article <45d8ec13@news.meer.net> [email]ccreekin@yahoo.com[/email] "Bill Tuthill" writes:
[color=blue]
> In alt.autos.toyota [email]mrv@kluge.net[/email] <mrv@kluge.net> wrote:[color=green]
> >
> > 2004-2007 UK tire
> > Bridgestone Turanza ER30
> > 195/55R16
> > 87V[/color]
>
> That would go partway to explaining why a US Prius gets better
> mileage than a UK Prius. Although I can't find the exact size,
> Turanza have significantly higher rolling resistance than
> Goodyear Integrity tires. [...][/color]

For the sake of the experimental data, I have just been outside
to check my 2005 UK Prius: out in the dark dank chill with just
my feeble torch for company, as winds moaned and owls hooted...

Bridgestone Turanza. Couldn't make out the associated numbers.
But the tyres fit fine. :-)

I hope you lot appreciate that this effort was above and beyond
the call of any duty. Where do I apply for my medals?

BTW, why don't they fit Integras in this market? Mine was made
in *.jp, so they can't be any harder to find. Conflicting road
demands and/or national car type certification conditions?
--
Andrew Stephenson

In alt.autos.toyota Andrew Stephenson <ames@deltrak.demon.co.uk> wrote:[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>> > 2004-2007 UK tire
>> > Bridgestone Turanza ER30
>> > 195/55R16[/color][/color]
>
> Bridgestone Turanza. Couldn't make out the associated numbers.
> But the tyres fit fine. :-)[/color]

Thanks!
[color=blue]
> I hope you lot appreciate that this effort was above and beyond
> the call of any duty. Where do I apply for my medals?[/color]

We will award you the Parliamentary medal of freedom (all rubber).
[color=blue]
> BTW, why don't they fit Integras in this market? Mine was made
> in *.jp, so they can't be any harder to find. Conflicting road
> demands and/or national car type certification conditions?[/color]

The Turanza has better resistance to hydroplaning and longer tread life.
Here are the Consumer Reports ratings of it:

Braking - good
Cornering - poor
Emergency handling - good
With ABS - good
Hydroplaning - good
Snow traction - poor
Ice braking - poor
Steering feel - good
Impact - fair
Noise - fair
Rolling resistance - poor
Tread wear - very good

In article <45d8fe39@news.meer.net> [email]ccreekin@yahoo.com[/email] "Bill
Tuthill" writes:
[color=blue]
> In alt.autos.toyota Andrew Stephenson
> <ames@deltrak.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>[color=green]
> > I hope you lot appreciate that this effort was above and beyond
> > the call of any duty. Where do I apply for my medals?[/color]
>
> We will award you the Parliamentary medal of freedom (all
> rubber).[/color]

Okay, so long as it doesn't bounce. (OT: OTOH, if Parliament is
involved, some kind of dodginess seems likely.)
[color=blue][color=green]
> > BTW, why don't they fit Integras in this market? Mine was made
> > in *.jp, so they can't be any harder to find. Conflicting road
> > demands and/or national car type certification conditions?[/color]
>
> The Turanza has better resistance to hydroplaning and longer
> tread life. Here are the Consumer Reports ratings of it:
>
> [...][/color]

Hmm, yes. It does rain occasionally in the UK, more than in the
sunny parts of *.ca.us at least. And snow has been short lately.

Ta. I shall luxuriate in that low wear and loss of hydroplaning,
while maintaining the proper tyre pressures.
--
Andrew Stephenson

In article <45d65311@news.meer.net>, Bill Tuthill <ccreekin@yahoo.com>
wrote:
[color=blue]
> Driving 75-80 mph from San Jose to Los Angeles, my wife got about
> what you UK drivers get. Short trips are far worse for Prius mileage
> than excessive speeds.[/color]
It's stop and go driving where the hybrid technology gains, there's
little or no gain with steady high speed driving.
Sounds like it's not working properly.

"who" <i@notaspammer.net> wrote in message
news:i-1C3475.00542219022007@news.telus.net...[color=blue]
> In article <45d65311@news.meer.net>, Bill Tuthill <ccreekin@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Driving 75-80 mph from San Jose to Los Angeles, my wife got about
>> what you UK drivers get. Short trips are far worse for Prius mileage
>> than excessive speeds.[/color]
> It's stop and go driving where the hybrid technology gains, there's
> little or no gain with steady high speed driving.
> Sounds like it's not working properly.[/color]
-----
Barometric pressure and fuel quality can make either city or highway fuel
efficiency flip flop. On level ground doing 101 miles an hour my digital
display says real time fuel economy above 35 but less than 45 mpg. I
hesitate to believe a traditional non-hybrid would even come close to that
fuel economy range at that speed. So, when someone tells their husband they
only saw such and such fuel efficiency you can sure as hell bet they drove
much faster than what they said they did, or their range of speed was more
like an up and down 60 to 80. Can't place blame on the car.
mark_
-----

In article <i-1C3475.00542219022007@news.telus.net>
[email]i@notaspammer.net[/email] "who" writes:
[color=blue]
> In article <45d65311@news.meer.net>, Bill Tuthill <ccreekin@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>[color=green]
> > Driving 75-80 mph from San Jose to Los Angeles, my wife got about
> > what you UK drivers get. Short trips are far worse for Prius mileage
> > than excessive speeds.[/color][/color]
[color=blue]
> It's stop and go driving where the hybrid technology gains, there's
> little or no gain with steady high speed driving.
> Sounds like it's not working properly.[/color]

I read Bill's remarks as meaning "really short trips", like those
which don't warm up the engine properly and give the mpg time for
"recovery".
--
Andrew Stephenson

"Andrew Stephenson" wrote ...[color=blue]
> "who" writes:[color=green]
>> Bill Tuthill wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>> > Driving 75-80 mph from San Jose to Los Angeles, my wife got about
>> > what you UK drivers get. Short trips are far worse for Prius mileage
>> > than excessive speeds.[/color][/color]
>[color=green]
>> It's stop and go driving where the hybrid technology gains, there's
>> little or no gain with steady high speed driving.
>> Sounds like it's not working properly.[/color]
>
> I read Bill's remarks as meaning "really short trips", like those
> which don't warm up the engine properly and give the mpg time for
> "recovery".[/color]

I read it the same way. The first few miles are always killer miles.
Tomes

On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 08:54:22 GMT, who <i@notaspammer.net> wrote:
[color=blue]
>In article <45d65311@news.meer.net>, Bill Tuthill <ccreekin@yahoo.com>
>wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Driving 75-80 mph from San Jose to Los Angeles, my wife got about
>> what you UK drivers get. Short trips are far worse for Prius mileage
>> than excessive speeds.[/color]
>It's stop and go driving where the hybrid technology gains, there's
>little or no gain with steady high speed driving.
>Sounds like it's not working properly.[/color]

The gain in highway efficiency is in the ability to use a lower output
engine due to the availability of supplemental power from the battery.
When operating at cruising speed, the engine will be running at a
higher % power level which is more efficient. In this mode, the
electrical drive line saves fuel by merely being there if you need it.