Re: Parasitic current on a 2004 Sienna

"You guess" <jackj^remove^180@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:65j8u2doc8oo2ei5rpcep9d1qmelo55vjv@4ax.com...[color=blue]
> On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 22:04:51 GMT, "cranheim"
> <caranheim@sbcglobal.net.net> wrote:
>[color=green]
>>I have had a battery go dead in my 2004 Sienna twice after it was not used
>>for 3 to 4 days. I know nothing was left on, because the console light
>>control switch was set to off, making sure a door not being completely
>>closed would not turn on any lights. In talking to my dealer, he said the
>>parasitic current (current drain on battery with everything turned off),
>>should be between 25 and 60ma. I checked mine, and found it was 220ma. I
>>then checked my daughters 2004 Sienna and found the same thing. It seems
>>unlikely a 220ma parasitic drain on the battery could discharge it in 4
>>days. The battery is rated at 575CCA and an RC of 130. I think it is the
>>battery itself. It is three years old. Has anyone measured the parasitic
>>current in their Sienna? If so, I would be interested in what they got for
>>a
>>reading. When I did the test, I connected an ammeter in series with the
>>positive battery cable and the positive battery post, with everything
>>turned
>>off and all doors closed in the van. If you try this, and do not
>>understand
>>what you are doing, you could damage a current meter. Do not open any
>>doors
>>or turn anything on while doing this test. Charles Ranheim.
>>[/color]
> Okay, let me stick my oar in here. 220ma seems kind of high for
> "keep-alive" current. That's almost 1/4 amp and it will discharge a
> battery is a few days, or at least drain it enough to make starting
> the car questionable.
>
> Follow Ray's advice, pull the fuses, one at a time, and see what is
> drawing the current. Could be a cell phone charger, etc.
>
> Jack
>
>
> ---
> avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
> Virus Database (VPS): 000718-0, 02/27/2007
> Tested on: 2/27/2007 10:26:07 AM
> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software.
> [url]http://www.avast.com[/url]
>[/color]
It looks like the "problem" is solved. I posted this on another forum. It
was suggested I shunt the battery cable connection with the ammeter, then
lift the cable off the battery post and see what the parasitic current was.
When I did this, the current was only 12 to 15ma. I then opened the circuit
for a few seconds and reconnected. The current was now back to the high
(220ma) reading. I continued to monitor this, and after a few minutes, it
dropped to the lower levels (12-15ma). Apparently, it takes a while for the
computers to initialize after a power on, before they go into "battery saver
mode". I did not know this. This explains everything that I observed on the
two Siennas I tested. I just did not wait long enough for the onboard
computers to complete their startup. Thanks again to all who responded. It
sure was an interesting problem.

"JoeSpareBedroom" <dishborealis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:nViFh.3774$ya1.845@news02.roc.ny...[color=blue]
> "cranheim" <caranheim@sbcglobal.net.net> wrote in message
> news:NTiFh.3029$BE2.2197@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net...[color=green]
>>
>> "You guess" <jackj^remove^180@adelphia.net> wrote in message
>> news:65j8u2doc8oo2ei5rpcep9d1qmelo55vjv@4ax.com...[color=darkred]
>>> On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 22:04:51 GMT, "cranheim"
>>> <caranheim@sbcglobal.net.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>I have had a battery go dead in my 2004 Sienna twice after it was not
>>>>used
>>>>for 3 to 4 days. I know nothing was left on, because the console light
>>>>control switch was set to off, making sure a door not being completely
>>>>closed would not turn on any lights. In talking to my dealer, he said
>>>>the
>>>>parasitic current (current drain on battery with everything turned off),
>>>>should be between 25 and 60ma. I checked mine, and found it was 220ma. I
>>>>then checked my daughters 2004 Sienna and found the same thing. It seems
>>>>unlikely a 220ma parasitic drain on the battery could discharge it in 4
>>>>days. The battery is rated at 575CCA and an RC of 130. I think it is the
>>>>battery itself. It is three years old. Has anyone measured the parasitic
>>>>current in their Sienna? If so, I would be interested in what they got
>>>>for a
>>>>reading. When I did the test, I connected an ammeter in series with the
>>>>positive battery cable and the positive battery post, with everything
>>>>turned
>>>>off and all doors closed in the van. If you try this, and do not
>>>>understand
>>>>what you are doing, you could damage a current meter. Do not open any
>>>>doors
>>>>or turn anything on while doing this test. Charles Ranheim.
>>>>
>>> Okay, let me stick my oar in here. 220ma seems kind of high for
>>> "keep-alive" current. That's almost 1/4 amp and it will discharge a
>>> battery is a few days, or at least drain it enough to make starting
>>> the car questionable.
>>>
>>> Follow Ray's advice, pull the fuses, one at a time, and see what is
>>> drawing the current. Could be a cell phone charger, etc.
>>>
>>> Jack
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>> avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
>>> Virus Database (VPS): 000718-0, 02/27/2007
>>> Tested on: 2/27/2007 10:26:07 AM
>>> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software.
>>> [url]http://www.avast.com[/url]
>>>[/color]
>> It looks like the "problem" is solved. I posted this on another forum. It
>> was suggested I shunt the battery cable connection with the ammeter, then
>> lift the cable off the battery post and see what the parasitic current
>> was. When I did this, the current was only 12 to 15ma. I then opened the
>> circuit for a few seconds and reconnected. The current was now back to
>> the high (220ma) reading. I continued to monitor this, and after a few
>> minutes, it dropped to the lower levels (12-15ma). Apparently, it takes a
>> while for the computers to initialize after a power on, before they go
>> into "battery saver mode". I did not know this. This explains everything
>> that I observed on the two Siennas I tested. I just did not wait long
>> enough for the onboard computers to complete their startup. Thanks again
>> to all who responded. It sure was an interesting problem.[/color]
>
>
> Then, why's the battery going dead, or did you replace it?[/color]
JoeSpareBedroom,
Yes I did replace the battery even though the dealer ran a load test on it
and it tested fine. I did not fully believe this test, and I stated I had a
new battery on 2/26. While checking for anything else that may be draining
my battery, I found what seemed to be excessive parasitic current. I was
unaware of the computer startup time after connection to a power source.
Even the dealer was not aware of this. Charles Ranheim

Not trying to be a pain, but this behavior is pretty much what was
suggested in that first article (Controller Area Network) that I
posted yesterday. Interesting that it takes so long for the computers
to settle down and realize nothing is going on.


On Feb 28, 12:22 pm, "cranheim" <caranh...@sbcglobal.net.net> wrote:[color=blue]
> "You guess" <jackj^remove^...@adelphia.net> wrote in message
>
> news:65j8u2doc8oo2ei5rpcep9d1qmelo55vjv@4ax.com...
>
>
>[color=green]
> > On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 22:04:51 GMT, "cranheim"
> > <caranh...@sbcglobal.net.net> wrote:[/color]
>[color=green][color=darkred]
> >>I have had a battery go dead in my 2004 Sienna twice after it was not used
> >>for 3 to 4 days. I know nothing was left on, because the console light
> >>control switch was set to off, making sure a door not being completely
> >>closed would not turn on any lights. In talking to my dealer, he said the
> >>parasitic current (current drain on battery with everything turned off),
> >>should be between 25 and 60ma. I checked mine, and found it was 220ma. I
> >>then checked my daughters 2004 Sienna and found the same thing. It seems
> >>unlikely a 220ma parasitic drain on the battery could discharge it in 4
> >>days. The battery is rated at 575CCA and an RC of 130. I think it is the
> >>battery itself. It is three years old. Has anyone measured the parasitic
> >>current in their Sienna? If so, I would be interested in what they got for
> >>a
> >>reading. When I did the test, I connected an ammeter in series with the
> >>positive battery cable and the positive battery post, with everything
> >>turned
> >>off and all doors closed in the van. If you try this, and do not
> >>understand
> >>what you are doing, you could damage a current meter. Do not open any
> >>doors
> >>or turn anything on while doing this test. Charles Ranheim.[/color][/color]
>[color=green]
> > Okay, let me stick my oar in here. 220ma seems kind of high for
> > "keep-alive" current. That's almost 1/4 amp and it will discharge a
> > battery is a few days, or at least drain it enough to make starting
> > the car questionable.[/color]
>[color=green]
> > Follow Ray's advice, pull the fuses, one at a time, and see what is
> > drawing the current. Could be a cell phone charger, etc.[/color]
>[color=green]
> > Jack[/color]
>[color=green]
> > ---
> > avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
> > Virus Database (VPS): 000718-0, 02/27/2007
> > Tested on: 2/27/2007 10:26:07 AM
> > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software.
> >[url]http://www.avast.com[/url][/color]
>
> It looks like the "problem" is solved. I posted this on another forum. It
> was suggested I shunt the battery cable connection with the ammeter, then
> lift the cable off the battery post and see what the parasitic current was.
> When I did this, the current was only 12 to 15ma. I then opened the circuit
> for a few seconds and reconnected. The current was now back to the high
> (220ma) reading. I continued to monitor this, and after a few minutes, it
> dropped to the lower levels (12-15ma). Apparently, it takes a while for the
> computers to initialize after a power on, before they go into "battery saver
> mode". I did not know this. This explains everything that I observed on the
> two Siennas I tested. I just did not wait long enough for the onboard
> computers to complete their startup. Thanks again to all who responded. It
> sure was an interesting problem.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -[/color]

In article <NTiFh.3029$BE2.2197@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>,
"cranheim" <caranheim@sbcglobal.net.net> wrote:
[color=blue]
> "You guess" <jackj^remove^180@adelphia.net> wrote in message
> news:65j8u2doc8oo2ei5rpcep9d1qmelo55vjv@4ax.com...[color=green]
> > On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 22:04:51 GMT, "cranheim"
> > <caranheim@sbcglobal.net.net> wrote:
> >[color=darkred]
> >>I have had a battery go dead in my 2004 Sienna twice after it was not used
> >>for 3 to 4 days. I know nothing was left on, because the console light
> >>control switch was set to off, making sure a door not being completely
> >>closed would not turn on any lights. In talking to my dealer, he said the
> >>parasitic current (current drain on battery with everything turned off),
> >>should be between 25 and 60ma. I checked mine, and found it was 220ma. I
> >>then checked my daughters 2004 Sienna and found the same thing. It seems
> >>unlikely a 220ma parasitic drain on the battery could discharge it in 4
> >>days. The battery is rated at 575CCA and an RC of 130. I think it is the
> >>battery itself. It is three years old. Has anyone measured the parasitic
> >>current in their Sienna? If so, I would be interested in what they got for
> >>a
> >>reading. When I did the test, I connected an ammeter in series with the
> >>positive battery cable and the positive battery post, with everything
> >>turned
> >>off and all doors closed in the van. If you try this, and do not
> >>understand
> >>what you are doing, you could damage a current meter. Do not open any
> >>doors
> >>or turn anything on while doing this test. Charles Ranheim.
> >>[/color]
> > Okay, let me stick my oar in here. 220ma seems kind of high for
> > "keep-alive" current. That's almost 1/4 amp and it will discharge a
> > battery is a few days, or at least drain it enough to make starting
> > the car questionable.
> >
> > Follow Ray's advice, pull the fuses, one at a time, and see what is
> > drawing the current. Could be a cell phone charger, etc.
> >
> > Jack
> >
> >
> > ---
> > avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
> > Virus Database (VPS): 000718-0, 02/27/2007
> > Tested on: 2/27/2007 10:26:07 AM
> > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software.
> > [url]http://www.avast.com[/url]
> >[/color]
> It looks like the "problem" is solved. I posted this on another forum. It
> was suggested I shunt the battery cable connection with the ammeter, then
> lift the cable off the battery post and see what the parasitic current was.
> When I did this, the current was only 12 to 15ma. I then opened the circuit
> for a few seconds and reconnected. The current was now back to the high
> (220ma) reading. I continued to monitor this, and after a few minutes, it
> dropped to the lower levels (12-15ma). Apparently, it takes a while for the
> computers to initialize after a power on, before they go into "battery saver
> mode". I did not know this. This explains everything that I observed on the
> two Siennas I tested. I just did not wait long enough for the onboard
> computers to complete their startup. Thanks again to all who responded. It
> sure was an interesting problem.[/color]

Thanks for posting that. It's a handy bit of information to know.
--

"Mark" <bogusmailmark@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1172685548.528151.108650@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
> Not trying to be a pain, but this behavior is pretty much what was
> suggested in that first article (Controller Area Network) that I
> posted yesterday. Interesting that it takes so long for the computers
> to settle down and realize nothing is going on.
>
>
> On Feb 28, 12:22 pm, "cranheim" <caranh...@sbcglobal.net.net> wrote:[color=green]
>> "You guess" <jackj^remove^...@adelphia.net> wrote in message
>>
>> news:65j8u2doc8oo2ei5rpcep9d1qmelo55vjv@4ax.com...
>>
>>
>>[color=darkred]
>> > On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 22:04:51 GMT, "cranheim"
>> > <caranh...@sbcglobal.net.net> wrote:[/color]
>>[color=darkred]
>> >>I have had a battery go dead in my 2004 Sienna twice after it was not
>> >>used
>> >>for 3 to 4 days. I know nothing was left on, because the console light
>> >>control switch was set to off, making sure a door not being completely
>> >>closed would not turn on any lights. In talking to my dealer, he said
>> >>the
>> >>parasitic current (current drain on battery with everything turned
>> >>off),
>> >>should be between 25 and 60ma. I checked mine, and found it was 220ma.
>> >>I
>> >>then checked my daughters 2004 Sienna and found the same thing. It
>> >>seems
>> >>unlikely a 220ma parasitic drain on the battery could discharge it in 4
>> >>days. The battery is rated at 575CCA and an RC of 130. I think it is
>> >>the
>> >>battery itself. It is three years old. Has anyone measured the
>> >>parasitic
>> >>current in their Sienna? If so, I would be interested in what they got
>> >>for
>> >>a
>> >>reading. When I did the test, I connected an ammeter in series with the
>> >>positive battery cable and the positive battery post, with everything
>> >>turned
>> >>off and all doors closed in the van. If you try this, and do not
>> >>understand
>> >>what you are doing, you could damage a current meter. Do not open any
>> >>doors
>> >>or turn anything on while doing this test. Charles Ranheim.[/color]
>>[color=darkred]
>> > Okay, let me stick my oar in here. 220ma seems kind of high for
>> > "keep-alive" current. That's almost 1/4 amp and it will discharge a
>> > battery is a few days, or at least drain it enough to make starting
>> > the car questionable.[/color]
>>[color=darkred]
>> > Follow Ray's advice, pull the fuses, one at a time, and see what is
>> > drawing the current. Could be a cell phone charger, etc.[/color]
>>[color=darkred]
>> > Jack[/color]
>>[color=darkred]
>> > ---
>> > avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
>> > Virus Database (VPS): 000718-0, 02/27/2007
>> > Tested on: 2/27/2007 10:26:07 AM
>> > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software.
>> >[url]http://www.avast.com[/url][/color]
>>
>> It looks like the "problem" is solved. I posted this on another forum. It
>> was suggested I shunt the battery cable connection with the ammeter, then
>> lift the cable off the battery post and see what the parasitic current
>> was.
>> When I did this, the current was only 12 to 15ma. I then opened the
>> circuit
>> for a few seconds and reconnected. The current was now back to the high
>> (220ma) reading. I continued to monitor this, and after a few minutes, it
>> dropped to the lower levels (12-15ma). Apparently, it takes a while for
>> the
>> computers to initialize after a power on, before they go into "battery
>> saver
>> mode". I did not know this. This explains everything that I observed on
>> the
>> two Siennas I tested. I just did not wait long enough for the onboard
>> computers to complete their startup. Thanks again to all who responded.
>> It
>> sure was an interesting problem.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -[/color]
>[/color]
Mark,
When I took the current readings, it started out high, then began to step
down. When it stepped down from 350 to 220 and seemed to stabilize, I though
that was the final current. I should have waited longer. A few minutes
later, it would have dropped instantly from 220 to 12 to 15ma. The
suggestion the other responder made about taking the reading without
interrupting the current flow proved it would eventually drop down. I called
the tech person at the dealer I had been working with. He was surprised to
hear that. I guess this is not something that is checked very often. I'm
sure the parasitic current characteristics will vary from model to model.
When the dealer showed me the printout from my old battery load test, it
came out higher than spec! However, I still replaced the battery, but
continued to look at other things in case it was not the battery. Getting
stuck somewhere with a car that won't start can be a bummer at times,
especially for my wife. The suspect battery was three years old. I convinced
the dealer to replace it under the 3 year replacement warranty. Normally, I
replace a battery anytime after 5 years even if it is still working. I can't
remember when I had a battery fail within 5 years. I always buy the best
battery I can fit in my car. This was my first Toyota battery.