Re: {OT:} On the subject of the government sticking it's nose into business... - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums
 

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Old 03-09-2007, 02:17 AM   #1 (permalink)
=?iso-2022-jp?q?Hachiroku_=1B$B%O%A%m%=2F=1B=28B?=
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Re: {OT:} On the subject of the government sticking it's nose into business...

On Fri, 09 Mar 2007 00:51:32 +0000, Jeff wrote:
[color=blue]
>
> "Hachiroku ãƒ?ãƒ?ãƒ*ク" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
> news:Zj_Hh.13049$kf.8306@trndny02...[color=green]
>> On Thu, 08 Mar 2007 15:48:09 +0000, Jeff wrote:[/color]
> <...>
>[color=green]
>> How about getting off the oil 'teat'? Fuel cells have been in
>> 'development' since I was in High School, and has shown to be no more
>> dangerous than having a tank of gasoline under your trunk, and when
>> hydrogen burns with oxygen, what does it produce? What a solution. And
>> the 'raw material' to 'refine' hydrogen is...water. Plenty of that
>> around...[/color]
>
> The problem is that to get hydrogen is that it requires energy. Then
> energy can come form methane or electicity. If you use methane, you end up
> putting carbon dioxide into the atmosphere. If you use electricity, the
> energy to generate the electricity has to come from someplace.
>
> So you don't get free energy when you use hyrdogen.
>
>[color=green]
>>
>>
>>[color=darkred]
>>> Compare that, to say, Microsoft, which makes products that are
>>> essential to a lot of businesses, or to Google or to the profits that
>>> the Michigan 3
>>> used to make or what Toyota and GM make. You might also compare that to
>>> drug companies, which make products which can be considered
>>> necessities, as well.
>>>
>>> Jeff[/color]
>>
>> I have compared it to drug companies in the past. Yup, people need
>> pharmaceuticles as well. Same deal.
>>
>> Microsoft? I run Linux. An afternoon of downloading and I have a
>> complete Operating System and all the apps I need. Free. If I *WANT* I
>> can go to CompUSA and buy the boxed version, with even more apps
>> included, for $89. That not only gets me the OS, but also an Office
>> Suite fully compatible with MS Office, Imaging software for my
>> photography, guitar tabbing for my music, etc, etc, and a year or two of
>> Tech Support. The only thing that falls short is that Streaming
>> Multimedia may not be all it is with Windows. Big deal. I don't really
>> need to see some dim ditz playing with her 'toys'.[/color]
>
> You run Linux. The vast majority of computers run Microsoft.
>[color=green]
>> And if people want to pay Google $11B, so be it. Who really *needs*
>> Google?
>> I did fine without a computer for 33 years, and can still get all the
>> info I need with a telephone, a typewriter and the Yellow Pages.
>>
>> But I can't drive my car on water.[/color]
>
> Correct, unless you break the water molecules apart with electricity into
> hydrogen and oxygen (electrolysis) and then burn the hydrogen in a fuel
> cell to make electricity. ;-)
>
> If you think ExxonMobil's profit is too big please tell me how to
> determine the proper amount of money that they should be allowed to earn.[/color]

Yes, this is an interesting question. I would propose a buffer on price
increases. As I said in the other thread, as soon as the price of a barrel
increases, the distributors get the word to raise prices. However, when
there is a decrease, there is quite a lag before it hits the pumps, if at
all. Kinda like a diode. Goes one way, not the other.

I think there should be a period of time before the price increase hits
the pump. like about the same time the barrels at the new price get to the
refineries. That way, if the price goes down, we don't end up getting
boned at the pumps.

Same for decreases. Which, btw, don't happen as often as increases, even
though rises and falls are almost a daily occurance.


[color=blue]
>
> Jeff
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>>> Jeff
>>>
>>>> If it's Laissez Faire for one, why not for all?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>[/color]
>>[/color][/color]

 
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Old 03-09-2007, 08:41 AM   #2 (permalink)
JoeSpareBedroom
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Re: {OT:} On the subject of the government sticking it's nose into business...

"Jeff" <news@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:h7dIh.10104$1g.5078@trndny05...[color=blue]
>
> "Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
> news:gS7Ih.583$jf.459@trndny04...[color=green]
>> On Fri, 09 Mar 2007 00:51:32 +0000, Jeff wrote:[/color]
>
> <...>
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>>> If you think ExxonMobil's profit is too big please tell me how to
>>> determine the proper amount of money that they should be allowed to
>>> earn.[/color]
>>
>> Yes, this is an interesting question. I would propose a buffer on price
>> increases. As I said in the other thread, as soon as the price of a
>> barrel
>> increases, the distributors get the word to raise prices. However, when
>> there is a decrease, there is quite a lag before it hits the pumps, if at
>> all. Kinda like a diode. Goes one way, not the other.
>>
>> I think there should be a period of time before the price increase hits
>> the pump. like about the same time the barrels at the new price get to
>> the
>> refineries. That way, if the price goes down, we don't end up getting
>> boned at the pumps.
>>
>> Same for decreases. Which, btw, don't happen as often as increases, even
>> though rises and falls are almost a daily occurance.[/color]
>
> Regardless, ExxonMobil had sales of over $350 billion and made $40 billion
> in proifts, with a profit margin of around 11%. Is this an unfair profit
> margin, given the investment and income they had? It is certainly on par
> with a well-run utility.
>
> How do you determine what a fair profit is for such a company?
>
> And can you support your claim that price increases in an unfair manner?
>
> Jeff[/color]

If you don't mind my temporarily substituting "ridiculous" for "unfair", for
purposes of an analogy, here we go:

Two tables, two separate groups of people rolling dice. At the first table,
the dice represent percentage of price increase or decrease for oil. At the
second table, the dice represent a list of randomly shifting factors that
will be applied to the numbers determined at the other table. Examples from
the second table might be:

- Multiply by snake eyes.
- Divide by number of rabies vaccinations your dog has gotten, plus his
weight at birth.
- Add the number of days in the past year when you've been truly worried
about violence.

You go to the gas station and find a TV screen on the pump, showing this
dice routine. The price at the pump varies every 10 seconds or so, based on
rolls of the dice.

Would this method be acceptable to you? It's not that far from reality.


 
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