2001 Prism blowing smoke--what went wrong?

I've had a problem with my 2001 chevy prism. I checked the engine
codes and it was a misfire on cylinder 3. To eliminate the coil as the
source of the problem, I swapped the coils from cylinders 2 and 3,
then reset the codes and tried it again. The same code came back for
cylinder 3, so now I'm thinking it could be an injector. I removed the
fuel rail and injectors, then swapped the injectors for cylinders 2
and 3. When I put the fuel rail back on and started the engine, the
car was blowing a significant amount of smoke, which it hadn't done
before. I'm worried that something serious has gone wrong, but can't
figure out what caused it. The car ran a bit rough before, but that
was it. Now, it dies at stop signs and as I said, blows blue smoke. Is
it possible that a small piece of dirt got into the cylinder through
the injector opening and created this problem? I was pretty careful to
keep that from happening, but I can't think of anything else. Does
anybody have any ideas to ease my fears that I've wrecked a piston
ring or something. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

TD

On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 15:46:19 -0700, TD wrote:
[color=blue]
> I've had a problem with my 2001 chevy prism. I checked the engine codes
> and it was a misfire on cylinder 3. To eliminate the coil as the source of
> the problem, I swapped the coils from cylinders 2 and 3, then reset the
> codes and tried it again. The same code came back for cylinder 3, so now
> I'm thinking it could be an injector. I removed the fuel rail and
> injectors, then swapped the injectors for cylinders 2 and 3. When I put
> the fuel rail back on and started the engine, the car was blowing a
> significant amount of smoke, which it hadn't done before. I'm worried that
> something serious has gone wrong, but can't figure out what caused it. The
> car ran a bit rough before, but that was it. Now, it dies at stop signs
> and as I said, blows blue smoke. Is it possible that a small piece of dirt
> got into the cylinder through the injector opening and created this
> problem? I was pretty careful to keep that from happening, but I can't
> think of anything else. Does anybody have any ideas to ease my fears that
> I've wrecked a piston ring or something. Any help would be greatly
> appreciated.
>
> TD[/color]


It would have to be a pretty big 'piece of dirt' to do that!

Are all screws, etc present and accounted for?

That's my Best Guess. You'll have to wait for Ray or one of the Techs (if
they're still with us) to ring in on this one...

"Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
news:0k0Jh.3989$vb.544@trndny04...[color=blue]
> On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 15:46:19 -0700, TD wrote:
>[color=green]
>> I've had a problem with my 2001 chevy prism. I checked the engine codes
>> and it was a misfire on cylinder 3. To eliminate the coil as the source
>> of
>> the problem, I swapped the coils from cylinders 2 and 3, then reset the
>> codes and tried it again. The same code came back for cylinder 3, so
>> now
>> I'm thinking it could be an injector. I removed the fuel rail and
>> injectors, then swapped the injectors for cylinders 2 and 3. When I put
>> the fuel rail back on and started the engine, the car was blowing a
>> significant amount of smoke, which it hadn't done before. I'm worried
>> that
>> something serious has gone wrong, but can't figure out what caused it.
>> The
>> car ran a bit rough before, but that was it. Now, it dies at stop signs
>> and as I said, blows blue smoke. Is it possible that a small piece of
>> dirt
>> got into the cylinder through the injector opening and created this
>> problem? I was pretty careful to keep that from happening, but I can't
>> think of anything else. Does anybody have any ideas to ease my fears
>> that
>> I've wrecked a piston ring or something. Any help would be greatly
>> appreciated.
>>
>> TD[/color]
>
> It would have to be a pretty big 'piece of dirt' to do that!
>
> Are all screws, etc present and accounted for?
>
> That's my Best Guess. You'll have to wait for Ray or one of the Techs
> (if
> they're still with us) to ring in on this one...
>[/color]

I agree that Ray will need to weigh in on this one, but I wanted to let
you know what I did with a similar code on a 98 Sienna last summer. I do
not remember the exact code, but it was for a misfire on one of the
cylinders. I put in new plugs and wires and it went away for good.
Checking out the coil for that cylinder pair was my next step but I did
not need to go that far (and there was a procedure for that checking). I
believe that a misfire means that it is not firing - an electrical issue,
not a fuel issue. I would put everything back the way it was, and then
put in new plugs and wires - you might need them anyway (?) - and go from
there.

Which code was it exactly? Is the code still there?
Tomes

"TD" <tddirks@msn.com> wrote in message
news:1173653179.258882.14530@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
> I've had a problem with my 2001 chevy prism. I checked the engine
> codes and it was a misfire on cylinder 3. To eliminate the coil as the
> source of the problem, I swapped the coils from cylinders 2 and 3,
> then reset the codes and tried it again. The same code came back for
> cylinder 3, so now I'm thinking it could be an injector. I removed the
> fuel rail and injectors, then swapped the injectors for cylinders 2
> and 3. When I put the fuel rail back on and started the engine, the
> car was blowing a significant amount of smoke, which it hadn't done
> before. I'm worried that something serious has gone wrong, but can't
> figure out what caused it. The car ran a bit rough before, but that
> was it. Now, it dies at stop signs and as I said, blows blue smoke. Is
> it possible that a small piece of dirt got into the cylinder through
> the injector opening and created this problem? I was pretty careful to
> keep that from happening, but I can't think of anything else. Does
> anybody have any ideas to ease my fears that I've wrecked a piston
> ring or something. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
> TD
>[/color]

We can speed up the diagnostic process and fix if you answer all of my
questions.

What is the actual code(s) you are getting?
How many miles on the car?
Where do you usually buy gas?
Do you ever park the car for long periods with an almost-empty tank?
Did you try swapping spark plugs?
How many miles are on the spark plugs?
What brand spark plugs are installed?
What color is the smoke? Blue-gray? White? Black - sooty?
When you switched the injectors, did you use new O-rings and grommets for
any connections that you swapped? O-rings and grommets are not re-useable
parts and new ones should be installed.

You can get a misfire if the ignition system malfunctions or if the fuel
mixture is too lean.

If you have not done so, check primary voltage at the coil to see if the
coil is getting power.
Also, if you have not done so, check for power at the injectors.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

On Mar 11, 10:30 pm, "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom>
wrote:[color=blue]
> "TD" <tddi...@msn.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1173653179.258882.14530@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>[color=green]
> > I've had a problem with my 2001 chevy prism. I checked the engine
> > codes and it was a misfire on cylinder 3. To eliminate the coil as the
> > source of the problem, I swapped the coils from cylinders 2 and 3,
> > then reset the codes and tried it again. The same code came back for
> > cylinder 3, so now I'm thinking it could be an injector. I removed the
> > fuel rail and injectors, then swapped the injectors for cylinders 2
> > and 3. When I put the fuel rail back on and started the engine, the
> > car was blowing a significant amount of smoke, which it hadn't done
> > before. I'm worried that something serious has gone wrong, but can't
> > figure out what caused it. The car ran a bit rough before, but that
> > was it. Now, it dies at stop signs and as I said, blows blue smoke. Is
> > it possible that a small piece of dirt got into the cylinder through
> > the injector opening and created this problem? I was pretty careful to
> > keep that from happening, but I can't think of anything else. Does
> > anybody have any ideas to ease my fears that I've wrecked a piston
> > ring or something. Any help would be greatly appreciated.[/color]
>[color=green]
> > TD[/color]
>
> We can speed up the diagnostic process and fix if you answer all of my
> questions.
>
> What is the actual code(s) you are getting?
> How many miles on the car?
> Where do you usually buy gas?
> Do you ever park the car for long periods with an almost-empty tank?
> Did you try swapping spark plugs?
> How many miles are on the spark plugs?
> What brand spark plugs are installed?
> What color is the smoke? Blue-gray? White? Black - sooty?
> When you switched the injectors, did you use new O-rings and grommets for
> any connections that you swapped? O-rings and grommets are not re-useable
> parts and new ones should be installed.
>
> You can get a misfire if the ignition system malfunctions or if the fuel
> mixture is too lean.
>
> If you have not done so, check primary voltage at the coil to see if the
> coil is getting power.
> Also, if you have not done so, check for power at the injectors.
> --
>
> Ray O
> (correct punctuation to reply)[/color]


Here's the answers to some of your questions:

Code is P0303
Car has about 130000 miles
Gas bought at Casey's. Usually ethanol blend
Car never parked more than a day
Tried two different sets of plugs. First was Autolite. Second was
Champion double platinum. I had just put the Champions on before I
swappped the injectors.
Smoke is blue-gray.
Had to change one o-ring because is was bad. Re-used the others. Re-
used the grommets. None of these had any noticeable wear.
Have not checked for voltage at the coil or injector.

As I said, the engine ran just a little rough, and seemed to have a
very low idle. It was not, however, very noticeable at highway speed.
There was also never any blue-gray smoke until the injectors were
swapped and the car was restarted. I'm guessing one injector is bad,
but now my main concern is the smoke. I don't want to buy an injector
for $140.00 if I've got more serious issues with the car. What's the
best way to check the voltage at the coil and injectors? Any other
ideas would be appreciated.

TD

On Mar 11, 10:40 pm, "Ph@Boy" <u...@example.net> wrote:[color=blue]
> TD wrote:[color=green]
> > I've had a problem with my 2001 chevy prism. I checked the engine
> > codes and it was a misfire on cylinder 3. To eliminate the coil as the
> > source of the problem, I swapped the coils from cylinders 2 and 3,
> > then reset the codes and tried it again. The same code came back for
> > cylinder 3, so now I'm thinking it could be an injector. I removed the
> > fuel rail and injectors, then swapped the injectors for cylinders 2
> > and 3. When I put the fuel rail back on and started the engine, the
> > car was blowing a significant amount of smoke, which it hadn't done
> > before. I'm worried that something serious has gone wrong, but can't
> > figure out what caused it. The car ran a bit rough before, but that
> > was it. Now, it dies at stop signs and as I said, blows blue smoke. Is
> > it possible that a small piece of dirt got into the cylinder through
> > the injector opening and created this problem? I was pretty careful to
> > keep that from happening, but I can't think of anything else. Does
> > anybody have any ideas to ease my fears that I've wrecked a piston
> > ring or something. Any help would be greatly appreciated.[/color]
>[color=green]
> > TD[/color]
>
> Check the valve guide seals on the number three cylinder valves. Blue
> smoke is an indication of motor oil (crank case oil) is being burned. Is
> it noticeably using motor oil? If the smoke is black it usually is an
> indication of a fuel rich condition and I would suspect an injector
> either sticking or programed open too long. You didn't mention the
> amount of miles on the vehicle. If a valve guide seal is worn or pushed
> off the guide, it will burn oil, and it will leak air and lead to a
> rough run condition as well IMHO.[/color]



If the valve guide seals are bad, what am I looking at for a fix? And
why would the act of swapping the injectors start this problem?

Thanks in advance for your reply.

TD

On Mar 12, 1:33 am, "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:[color=blue]
> "TD" <tddi...@msn.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1173674016.066868.49100@n33g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>[color=green]
> > On Mar 11, 10:30 pm, "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom>
> > wrote:[color=darkred]
> >> "TD" <tddi...@msn.com> wrote in message[/color][/color]
>[color=green][color=darkred]
> >>news:1173653179.258882.14530@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...[/color][/color]
>[color=green][color=darkred]
> >> > I've had a problem with my 2001 chevy prism. I checked the engine
> >> > codes and it was a misfire on cylinder 3. To eliminate the coil as the
> >> > source of the problem, I swapped the coils from cylinders 2 and 3,
> >> > then reset the codes and tried it again. The same code came back for
> >> > cylinder 3, so now I'm thinking it could be an injector. I removed the
> >> > fuel rail and injectors, then swapped the injectors for cylinders 2
> >> > and 3. When I put the fuel rail back on and started the engine, the
> >> > car was blowing a significant amount of smoke, which it hadn't done
> >> > before. I'm worried that something serious has gone wrong, but can't
> >> > figure out what caused it. The car ran a bit rough before, but that
> >> > was it. Now, it dies at stop signs and as I said, blows blue smoke. Is
> >> > it possible that a small piece of dirt got into the cylinder through
> >> > the injector opening and created this problem? I was pretty careful to
> >> > keep that from happening, but I can't think of anything else. Does
> >> > anybody have any ideas to ease my fears that I've wrecked a piston
> >> > ring or something. Any help would be greatly appreciated.[/color][/color]
>[color=green][color=darkred]
> >> > TD[/color][/color]
>[color=green][color=darkred]
> >> We can speed up the diagnostic process and fix if you answer all of my
> >> questions.[/color][/color]
>[color=green][color=darkred]
> >> What is the actual code(s) you are getting?
> >> How many miles on the car?
> >> Where do you usually buy gas?
> >> Do you ever park the car for long periods with an almost-empty tank?
> >> Did you try swapping spark plugs?
> >> How many miles are on the spark plugs?
> >> What brand spark plugs are installed?
> >> What color is the smoke? Blue-gray? White? Black - sooty?
> >> When you switched the injectors, did you use new O-rings and grommets for
> >> any connections that you swapped? O-rings and grommets are not
> >> re-useable
> >> parts and new ones should be installed.[/color][/color]
>[color=green][color=darkred]
> >> You can get a misfire if the ignition system malfunctions or if the fuel
> >> mixture is too lean.[/color][/color]
>[color=green][color=darkred]
> >> If you have not done so, check primary voltage at the coil to see if the
> >> coil is getting power.
> >> Also, if you have not done so, check for power at the injectors.
> >> --[/color][/color]
>[color=green][color=darkred]
> >> Ray O
> >> (correct punctuation to reply)[/color][/color]
>
> Look for my comments after your responses.
>
>
>[color=green]
> > Here's the answers to some of your questions:[/color]
>[color=green]
> > Code is P0303[/color]
>
> I forgot to ask before, but am I correct in assuming that you checked for
> more than 1 trouble code and P0303 was the only code?
>[color=green]
> > Car has about 130000 miles[/color]
>
> It looks like you average 20,000 miles per year - is this mostly highway
> miles or over a fairly long commute?
>[color=green]
> > Gas bought at Casey's. Usually ethanol blend[/color]
>
> As long as there is no more than 10% ethanol, gas should not be a problem.
>[color=green]
> > Car never parked more than a day[/color]
>
> This is good for the car. Cars like to be driven, not sit around.
>[color=green]
> > Tried two different sets of plugs. First was Autolite. Second was
> > Champion double platinum. I had just put the Champions on before I
> > swappped the injectors.[/color]
>
> Next time you buy spark plugs, try Denso.
>
> Also, when you installed the new spark plugs, by any chance, did you try to
> adjust the spark plug gap?
>[color=green]
> > Smoke is blue-gray.[/color]
>
> Doesn't sound good, but sometimes 1 bad injector can cause blue-grey smoke.
>[color=green]
> > Had to change one o-ring because is was bad. Re-used the others. Re-
> > used the grommets. None of these had any noticeable wear.[/color]
>
> In the future, try to avoid messing with the fuel injectors and injector
> rail unless you replace all of the O-rings and grommets for the injectors
> you remove, including the ones at the opening end of the injector.
> Injectors generally will not go bad unless you use a lot of gas from no-name
> independent gas stations. Before you crack injector seals, try a bottle of
> Chevron Techron fuel injector cleaner first. Also, if you put your finger
> on the injector, you may be able to detect it pulsing, and an injector that
> doesn't "pulse" may not be firing.
>[color=green]
> > Have not checked for voltage at the coil or injector.[/color]
>[color=green]
> > As I said, the engine ran just a little rough, and seemed to have a
> > very low idle. It was not, however, very noticeable at highway speed.
> > There was also never any blue-gray smoke until the injectors were
> > swapped and the car was restarted. I'm guessing one injector is bad,
> > but now my main concern is the smoke. I don't want to buy an injector
> > for $140.00 if I've got more serious issues with the car. What's the
> > best way to check the voltage at the coil and injectors? Any other
> > ideas would be appreciated.[/color]
>[color=green]
> > TD[/color]
>
> Try the Chevron Techron fuel injector cleaner or find a service facility
> that offers Motor-Vac service.
>
> I doubt if messing with the injectors suddenly caused an oil consumption or
> valve guide seal problem, so a more likely cause of the smoke is an injector
> problem.
>
> If you have a volt meter and can fabricate a jumper wire between the
> connector for the injector and the injector itself, you can check the jumper
> wire for a voltage pulses.
>
> The coil will have a thin gauge wire leading to it. Measure the voltage
> between the thin gauge wire and a chassis ground. It should be 12 volts.
> --
>
> Ray O
> (correct punctuation to reply)[/color]



Ray,

I really appeciate your help. Here is some more information I've
learned, which probably doesn't sound good. I removed the new plugs,
and plug for cylinder 3 was oily. The car also was down a quart of
oil, after I had added a quart to full last week. I did not notice oil
on the plugs when I changed to the Champions yesterday. I've tried two
different fuel injector cleaners when the problem started, but not the
Chevron. The car has almost exclusively highway miles. So here are my
questions. Worst case scenario, a valve seal is bad. What does it take
to fix and can this be done fairly cheap and easily if I do it myself?
I have overhauled a couple engines in the past, so I'm not exactly
without some experience working on them, though it's been twenty years
ago.

I know people on some boards I've read have talked about injector
replacement as a several hundred dollar job when done by a mechanic. I
could do the job myself in less than 20 minutes for under two hundred
dollars. In other words, are the valve guides something that I could
realize the same degree of savings if I do it myself? If not, is there
any cheap, temporary solution to stop or slow the oil burning, like a
different grade of oil or additive? The sad thing is, I still have ten
months left to pay on this car, and financially I simply can't afford
another. My wife and I both drive over 25 miles to work (in different
directions), so being without either one of our two cars is not an
option. So needless to say, this has put us in a serious bind.

Thanks in advance for your reply.

TD

On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 22:30:13 -0500, Ray O wrote:
[color=blue]
> Do you ever park the car for long periods with an almost-empty tank?[/color]


What does this do?
Because the garage I park my Supra in is basically inside the house!, and
because it has a leaky filler tube (no longer available...) I park the car
with a near empty tank for the winter...

On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 21:33:36 -0700, TD wrote:
[color=blue]
> Tried two different sets of plugs. First was Autolite. Second was Champion
> double platinum. I had just put the Champions on before I swappped the
> injectors.[/color]


UGH! These are the worst things you can put in a Toyota!

Yank them and go get yourself some NGK Platinums or Nippon-Denso U-Groove
platinums. Champions are junk!
(I went to get a plug for my snowblower and asked for NGK. The guy had a
near match for the plug but the exact thing in a Champ. He asked me if I
wanted the Champ, I said, No I want the thing to start! We both laughed!)

On Mon, 12 Mar 2007 04:48:25 -0700, TD wrote:
[color=blue]
> On Mar 12, 1:33 am, "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:[color=green]
>> "TD" <tddi...@msn.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:1173674016.066868.49100@n33g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>>[color=darkred]
>> > On Mar 11, 10:30 pm, "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom>
>> > wrote:
>> >> "TD" <tddi...@msn.com> wrote in message[/color]
>>[color=darkred]
>> >>news:1173653179.258882.14530@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...[/color]
>>[color=darkred]
>> >> > I've had a problem with my 2001 chevy prism. I checked the engine
>> >> > codes and it was a misfire on cylinder 3. To eliminate the coil as
>> >> > the source of the problem, I swapped the coils from cylinders 2 and
>> >> > 3, then reset the codes and tried it again. The same code came back
>> >> > for cylinder 3, so now I'm thinking it could be an injector. I
>> >> > removed the fuel rail and injectors, then swapped the injectors for
>> >> > cylinders 2 and 3. When I put the fuel rail back on and started the
>> >> > engine, the car was blowing a significant amount of smoke, which it
>> >> > hadn't done before. I'm worried that something serious has gone
>> >> > wrong, but can't figure out what caused it. The car ran a bit rough
>> >> > before, but that was it. Now, it dies at stop signs and as I said,
>> >> > blows blue smoke. Is it possible that a small piece of dirt got
>> >> > into the cylinder through the injector opening and created this
>> >> > problem? I was pretty careful to keep that from happening, but I
>> >> > can't think of anything else. Does anybody have any ideas to ease
>> >> > my fears that I've wrecked a piston ring or something. Any help
>> >> > would be greatly appreciated.[/color]
>>[color=darkred]
>> >> > TD[/color]
>>[color=darkred]
>> >> We can speed up the diagnostic process and fix if you answer all of
>> >> my questions.[/color]
>>[color=darkred]
>> >> What is the actual code(s) you are getting? How many miles on the
>> >> car?
>> >> Where do you usually buy gas?
>> >> Do you ever park the car for long periods with an almost-empty tank?
>> >> Did you try swapping spark plugs?
>> >> How many miles are on the spark plugs? What brand spark plugs are
>> >> installed? What color is the smoke? Blue-gray? White? Black - sooty?
>> >> When you switched the injectors, did you use new O-rings and grommets
>> >> for any connections that you swapped? O-rings and grommets are not
>> >> re-useable
>> >> parts and new ones should be installed.[/color]
>>[color=darkred]
>> >> You can get a misfire if the ignition system malfunctions or if the
>> >> fuel mixture is too lean.[/color]
>>[color=darkred]
>> >> If you have not done so, check primary voltage at the coil to see if
>> >> the coil is getting power.
>> >> Also, if you have not done so, check for power at the injectors. --[/color]
>>[color=darkred]
>> >> Ray O
>> >> (correct punctuation to reply)[/color]
>>
>> Look for my comments after your responses.
>>
>>
>>[color=darkred]
>> > Here's the answers to some of your questions:[/color]
>>[color=darkred]
>> > Code is P0303[/color]
>>
>> I forgot to ask before, but am I correct in assuming that you checked
>> for more than 1 trouble code and P0303 was the only code?
>>[color=darkred]
>> > Car has about 130000 miles[/color]
>>
>> It looks like you average 20,000 miles per year - is this mostly highway
>> miles or over a fairly long commute?
>>[color=darkred]
>> > Gas bought at Casey's. Usually ethanol blend[/color]
>>
>> As long as there is no more than 10% ethanol, gas should not be a
>> problem.
>>[color=darkred]
>> > Car never parked more than a day[/color]
>>
>> This is good for the car. Cars like to be driven, not sit around.
>>[color=darkred]
>> > Tried two different sets of plugs. First was Autolite. Second was
>> > Champion double platinum. I had just put the Champions on before I
>> > swappped the injectors.[/color]
>>
>> Next time you buy spark plugs, try Denso.
>>
>> Also, when you installed the new spark plugs, by any chance, did you try
>> to adjust the spark plug gap?
>>[color=darkred]
>> > Smoke is blue-gray.[/color]
>>
>> Doesn't sound good, but sometimes 1 bad injector can cause blue-grey
>> smoke.
>>[color=darkred]
>> > Had to change one o-ring because is was bad. Re-used the others. Re-
>> > used the grommets. None of these had any noticeable wear.[/color]
>>
>> In the future, try to avoid messing with the fuel injectors and injector
>> rail unless you replace all of the O-rings and grommets for the
>> injectors you remove, including the ones at the opening end of the
>> injector. Injectors generally will not go bad unless you use a lot of
>> gas from no-name independent gas stations. Before you crack injector
>> seals, try a bottle of Chevron Techron fuel injector cleaner first.
>> Also, if you put your finger on the injector, you may be able to detect
>> it pulsing, and an injector that doesn't "pulse" may not be firing.
>>[color=darkred]
>> > Have not checked for voltage at the coil or injector.[/color]
>>[color=darkred]
>> > As I said, the engine ran just a little rough, and seemed to have a
>> > very low idle. It was not, however, very noticeable at highway speed.
>> > There was also never any blue-gray smoke until the injectors were
>> > swapped and the car was restarted. I'm guessing one injector is bad,
>> > but now my main concern is the smoke. I don't want to buy an injector
>> > for $140.00 if I've got more serious issues with the car. What's the
>> > best way to check the voltage at the coil and injectors? Any other
>> > ideas would be appreciated.[/color]
>>[color=darkred]
>> > TD[/color]
>>
>> Try the Chevron Techron fuel injector cleaner or find a service facility
>> that offers Motor-Vac service.
>>
>> I doubt if messing with the injectors suddenly caused an oil consumption
>> or valve guide seal problem, so a more likely cause of the smoke is an
>> injector problem.
>>
>> If you have a volt meter and can fabricate a jumper wire between the
>> connector for the injector and the injector itself, you can check the
>> jumper wire for a voltage pulses.
>>
>> The coil will have a thin gauge wire leading to it. Measure the voltage
>> between the thin gauge wire and a chassis ground. It should be 12
>> volts. --
>>
>> Ray O
>> (correct punctuation to reply)[/color]
>
>
>
> Ray,
>
> I really appeciate your help. Here is some more information I've learned,
> which probably doesn't sound good. I removed the new plugs, and plug for
> cylinder 3 was oily. The car also was down a quart of oil, after I had
> added a quart to full last week. I did not notice oil on the plugs when I
> changed to the Champions yesterday. I've tried two different fuel injector
> cleaners when the problem started, but not the Chevron. The car has almost
> exclusively highway miles. So here are my questions. Worst case scenario,
> a valve seal is bad. What does it take to fix and can this be done fairly
> cheap and easily if I do it myself? I have overhauled a couple engines in
> the past, so I'm not exactly without some experience working on them,
> though it's been twenty years ago.[/color]

I'm thinking something fell into the hole when you had the plug out. This
is a pretty large amount of oil consumption for one cylinder! Fill it
again, check it tomorrow and see what happens...

And get rid of those Champs! They suck! I used to use them in other cars,
but in '78 I bought a new Corolla 1200. At 50,000 I changed the plugs and
put Champs in. Damn thing didn't start <45 degrees! Local guy siad get
Nippon Densos. Now, N-D's or NGK's are all I use in ANYTHING!


[color=blue]
>
> I know people on some boards I've read have talked about injector
> replacement as a several hundred dollar job when done by a mechanic.[/color]

Each injector is about $125! Make sure it's an injector problem before you
go throwing that kind of money at it!
[color=blue]
> I
> could do the job myself in less than 20 minutes for under two hundred
> dollars. In other words, are the valve guides something that I could
> realize the same degree of savings if I do it myself?[/color]

IIRC, you have a DOHC engine. Replacing the valve seals involes removing
the valve covers, the camshafts, the timing balt, the shims and then the
valve seals. You're not going to do it in twnet minutes in your driveway,
and you have to retime the cams when you put the timing belt back on. I
would also suggest a new belt at this time, unless you did it recently.
Also, mark the direction the belt is running in! You don't want to reverse
the belt when replacing it.

I believe you have something else going on than a bad valve seal. Usual
indication of a bad valve seal is a puff or two of blue smoke on starting,
and usually when a car has been sitting for a while. You say you drive the
car daily; the smoke should be near inperceptable under these conditions!
Also, I drove an '85 Corolla GTS for YEARS with bad valve seals; again,
since I was driving it daily it was only noticeable when the car sat for
more than two days.

[color=blue]
> If not, is there any
> cheap, temporary solution to stop or slow the oil burning, like a
> different grade of oil or additive? The sad thing is, I still have ten
> months left to pay on this car, and financially I simply can't afford
> another. My wife and I both drive over 25 miles to work (in different
> directions), so being without either one of our two cars is not an option.
> So needless to say, this has put us in a serious bind.[/color]

If you do have bad valve seals, try using a High-Mileage oil like Castrol
or ...um, Valvoline? (I only use Castrol...) I had this same condition
with an '88 Supra, with a fairly decent CLOUD of smoke on start-up. I
replaced the oil with High-Mileage, and after sitting 2-4 days the smoke
is barely visible. I started it for the first time since November
yesterday, and there was some smoke, but nowhere near years past!

[color=blue]
>
> Thanks in advance for your reply.
>
> TD[/color]

Good luck. I think you have something else going on here. But, I've been
wrong before...once.

Really, let us know what happens.

oh, and GET RID OF THOSE CHAMPS!!!!!

On Mon, 12 Mar 2007 04:48:25 -0700, TD wrote:
[color=blue]
> On Mar 12, 1:33 am, "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:[color=green]
>> "TD" <tddi...@msn.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:1173674016.066868.49100@n33g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>>[/color][/color]

Oh, hey did you read Tomes response? A bad plug wire or coil can cause
problems, as Ray suggested. You said you changed plugs. did you do a full
tune-up, with new wires (do you have those coil thingy's or a regular
distributor?)

And, use only genuine Toyota wires and parts, or a name brand replacement
(by "name brand wires" I mean NGK or Nippon-Denso...they made the OEM
wires...)

oh, and, GET RID OF THOSE CHAMPS!!!

"Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
news:SscJh.1624$8o1.784@trndny01...[color=blue]
> On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 22:30:13 -0500, Ray O wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Do you ever park the car for long periods with an almost-empty tank?[/color]
>
>
> What does this do?
> Because the garage I park my Supra in is basically inside the house!, and
> because it has a leaky filler tube (no longer available...) I park the car
> with a near empty tank for the winter...
>[/color]

The extra space in the tank allows moisture to condense in the tank. The
moisture settles to the bottom of the tank, and could theoretically get high
enough to be picked up by the fuel pickup. The moisture can corrode the
tank from the inside out and can foul injectors. Also, the air in the tank
will turn the fuel into varnish.

Parking with a full tank reduces condensation and varnish buildup. Some
Sta-Bil in the tank also helps.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)