Re: mystery problem with a 1997 Avalon XLS

"Stephen" <stephen2718@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1109181279.778549.326570@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
> Well, all of the above things were checked out again by another
> mechanic and nothing was found. My next step will be to go to a dealer
> shop and have them look at the problem, although I know this will cost
> a lot of money to do.
>[/color]

Sorry, I missed your original list of complaints. Someone mentioned a
vacuum leak, and before going around trying to find a leak, you or a service
facility should hook up a vacuum guage and see if vacuum is out of spec.

[color=blue]
> There is one other problem that I am having that is related to all of
> the above things I mentioned.
>
> In the morning, when the car has been completely cooled down, when I am
> reversing out of my garage, the car almost dies every time (the RPM
> guage goes to zero and the engine sounds like it is not even on), and
> only after putting the car in drive, putting my foot on the gas gently,
> and waiting will the car go (and it starts out going really really
> slowly but I am just happy to have it moving).
>
> Does any of this add to the situation's clarity or does it just
> complicate things even more?
>
> Thanks,
> Stephen[/color]

This sounds like a bad idle air control valve.
--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply

[color=blue]
>
> Sorry, I missed your original list of complaints. Someone mentioned[/color]
a[color=blue]
> vacuum leak, and before going around trying to find a leak, you or a[/color]
service[color=blue]
> facility should hook up a vacuum guage and see if vacuum is out of[/color]
spec.

We checked this out and there did not appear to be any vacuum leaks.
[color=blue]
>
> This sounds like a bad idle air control valve.[/color]

I have a couple of questions so that I know exactly what to tell a
certified toyota mechanic.

Could this type of problem exist without any vacuum leaks? Could this
also be an electrical problem? Could this be a problem that is not
able to be confirmed by any computer tests? I am asking the last
question because nothing has come up on any of the computer tests yet.

Thank you for the help Ray O.

Stephen

"Ray O" <rokigawa@tristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:
[color=blue]
>
>"Stephen" <stephen2718@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:1109190313.898071.103200@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...[color=green]
>>[color=darkred]
>>>
>>> Sorry, I missed your original list of complaints. Someone mentioned[/color]
>> a[color=darkred]
>>> vacuum leak, and before going around trying to find a leak, you or a[/color]
>> service[color=darkred]
>>> facility should hook up a vacuum guage and see if vacuum is out of[/color]
>> spec.
>>
>> We checked this out and there did not appear to be any vacuum leaks.
>>[color=darkred]
>>>
>>> This sounds like a bad idle air control valve.[/color]
>>
>> I have a couple of questions so that I know exactly what to tell a
>> certified toyota mechanic.
>>
>> Could this type of problem exist without any vacuum leaks? Could this
>> also be an electrical problem? Could this be a problem that is not
>> able to be confirmed by any computer tests? I am asking the last
>> question because nothing has come up on any of the computer tests yet.
>>
>> Thank you for the help Ray O.
>>
>> Stephen
>>[/color]
>Sorry, I still don't know what type of problems you're having other than the
>engine almost dying when idling after a cold soak start so I can't tell you
>if they are likely to be related or not.
>
>In general, various problems can and do exist without vacuum leaks. That is
>why I suggested using a vacuum gauge to check vacuum before looking for
>leaks.
>
>A mistake that many people make is going to a service facility, whether it
>is a dealer, independent repair facility, or their neighbor and asking the
>facility to check a particular component, especially if the person doing the
>asking is not as knowledgeable as the person doing the checking. A much
>better way to get your car diagnosed properly is to carefully note the
>symptoms and when they occur, ambient temperature, how long it has been
>parked or idling, etc. and then carefully and completely describing the
>symptoms to the service advisor and letting the service facility make
>diagnosis and repair.
>
>I worked in the auto business for 15 years, and when I took my car to the
>shop to have the AC fixed, I said "AC doesn't get cool," not recharge
>refrigerant or check schrader valve or check expansion valve, etc.
>
>For example, going to a dealer and asking the dealer to check the idle air
>control valve is like going to a doctor with chest pains and asking the
>doctor to do exploratory surgery on the right ventricle when the doctor
>might just prescribe antacids for heartburn.
>
>I'll give you my educated guesses on what the cause or fix may be, but when
>you take your car to get fixed, do yourself a favor and ignore what I and
>every other poster tells you and just describe what the car is doing.[/color]

Good advice...take it to the bank...
--

-Gord.
(use gordon in email)

Well, the reason why I asked about specific things is that whenever I
took the car with generalizations of the problem, nothing was ever
found. And this was taking it to certified toyota mechanics. :-(

Thanks,
Stephen

"Stephen" <stephen2718@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1109367470.827287.193720@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
> Well, the reason why I asked about specific things is that whenever I
> took the car with generalizations of the problem, nothing was ever
> found. And this was taking it to certified toyota mechanics. :-(
>
> Thanks,
> Stephen
>[/color]

There is no formal title called "Certified Toyota Mechanic" in the U.S.

When you say "certified Toyota Mechanics" do you mean that you took the car
to a Franchised Toyota dealer? Most dealers try to hire technicians who are
trained professionals. A technician not only works on the mechanical
components of the vehicle, the tech can also work on HVAC, electrical,
electronic components, read and interpret a wiring diagram, etc.

After the technicians get some tenure, attend factory required classes, and
pass ASE certifications, they can achieve various designations. I think the
designations have changed, but it used to be Apprentice, Pro, and after at
least 5 years, Master Diagnostic Tech (MDT). The MDT's I personally knew
were all pretty sharp.

A Toyota Apprentice, Pro, or Master Diagnostic Tech must be employed by a
Toyota dealer. If you took your car to a service facility that is not a
franchised Toyota dealer, then whoever worked on your car would at best be a
former Toyota MDT.
--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply

"Ray O" <rokigawa@tristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:
[color=blue]
>
>"Stephen" <stephen2718@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:1109181279.778549.326570@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...[color=green]
>>...
>> In the morning, when the car has been completely cooled down, when I am
>> reversing out of my garage, the car almost dies every time (the RPM
>> guage goes to zero and the engine sounds like it is not even on), and
>> only after putting the car in drive, putting my foot on the gas gently,
>> and waiting will the car go (and it starts out going really really
>> slowly but I am just happy to have it moving).
>>
>> Does any of this add to the situation's clarity or does it just
>> complicate things even more?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Stephen[/color]
>
>This sounds like a bad idle air control valve.[/color]
I agree. I've had the IACV on my '97 Avalon replaced twice (37k and
102k miles) to fix the stalling-when-cold problem.

Well, all of the above things were checked out again by another
mechanic and nothing was found. My next step will be to go to a dealer
shop and have them look at the problem, although I know this will cost
a lot of money to do.

There is one other problem that I am having that is related to all of
the above things I mentioned.

In the morning, when the car has been completely cooled down, when I am
reversing out of my garage, the car almost dies every time (the RPM
guage goes to zero and the engine sounds like it is not even on), and
only after putting the car in drive, putting my foot on the gas gently,
and waiting will the car go (and it starts out going really really
slowly but I am just happy to have it moving).

Does any of this add to the situation's clarity or does it just
complicate things even more?

Thanks,
Stephen

[email]max-income@comcast.net[/email] wrote:[color=blue]
> On 8-Jan-2005, "Stephen" <stephen2718@yahoo.com> wrote:
>[color=green]
> > Most likely there is a leak in one of the vacuum tubes, but the[/color][/color]
auto[color=blue][color=green]
> > repair people were unable to determine which one it was. Is there[/color][/color]
any[color=blue][color=green]
> > way of knowing which leak it is, or even if I am sure that it is a[/color][/color]
leak[color=blue][color=green]
> > at all? Has anyone ever experienced anything like this?[/color]
>
> Take a short length of vacuum hose (or anything about that size).[/color]
Start the[color=blue]
> car, and put one end of the tube to your ear. Use the other to poke[/color]
around[color=blue]
> the vacuum hoses. When you hear a loud hiss, you've found the leak.[/color]
Cheaper[color=blue]
> than buying a stethoscope. And if you want to be sure of what you're
> hearing, disconnect a vacuum hose and listen to how it sounds.
> --
> Every day is a good day- it's just that some are better than others.[/color]

"Stephen" <stephen2718@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1109181279.778549.326570@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
> Well, all of the above things were checked out again by another
> mechanic and nothing was found. My next step will be to go to a dealer
> shop and have them look at the problem, although I know this will cost
> a lot of money to do.
>[/color]

Sorry, I missed your original list of complaints. Someone mentioned a
vacuum leak, and before going around trying to find a leak, you or a service
facility should hook up a vacuum guage and see if vacuum is out of spec.

[color=blue]
> There is one other problem that I am having that is related to all of
> the above things I mentioned.
>
> In the morning, when the car has been completely cooled down, when I am
> reversing out of my garage, the car almost dies every time (the RPM
> guage goes to zero and the engine sounds like it is not even on), and
> only after putting the car in drive, putting my foot on the gas gently,
> and waiting will the car go (and it starts out going really really
> slowly but I am just happy to have it moving).
>
> Does any of this add to the situation's clarity or does it just
> complicate things even more?
>
> Thanks,
> Stephen[/color]

This sounds like a bad idle air control valve.
--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply

[color=blue]
>
> Sorry, I missed your original list of complaints. Someone mentioned[/color]
a[color=blue]
> vacuum leak, and before going around trying to find a leak, you or a[/color]
service[color=blue]
> facility should hook up a vacuum guage and see if vacuum is out of[/color]
spec.

We checked this out and there did not appear to be any vacuum leaks.
[color=blue]
>
> This sounds like a bad idle air control valve.[/color]

I have a couple of questions so that I know exactly what to tell a
certified toyota mechanic.

Could this type of problem exist without any vacuum leaks? Could this
also be an electrical problem? Could this be a problem that is not
able to be confirmed by any computer tests? I am asking the last
question because nothing has come up on any of the computer tests yet.

Thank you for the help Ray O.

Stephen

"Stephen" <stephen2718@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1109190313.898071.103200@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
>[color=green]
>>
>> Sorry, I missed your original list of complaints. Someone mentioned[/color]
> a[color=green]
>> vacuum leak, and before going around trying to find a leak, you or a[/color]
> service[color=green]
>> facility should hook up a vacuum guage and see if vacuum is out of[/color]
> spec.
>
> We checked this out and there did not appear to be any vacuum leaks.
>[color=green]
>>
>> This sounds like a bad idle air control valve.[/color]
>
> I have a couple of questions so that I know exactly what to tell a
> certified toyota mechanic.
>
> Could this type of problem exist without any vacuum leaks? Could this
> also be an electrical problem? Could this be a problem that is not
> able to be confirmed by any computer tests? I am asking the last
> question because nothing has come up on any of the computer tests yet.
>
> Thank you for the help Ray O.
>
> Stephen
>[/color]
Sorry, I still don't know what type of problems you're having other than the
engine almost dying when idling after a cold soak start so I can't tell you
if they are likely to be related or not.

In general, various problems can and do exist without vacuum leaks. That is
why I suggested using a vacuum gauge to check vacuum before looking for
leaks.

A mistake that many people make is going to a service facility, whether it
is a dealer, independent repair facility, or their neighbor and asking the
facility to check a particular component, especially if the person doing the
asking is not as knowledgeable as the person doing the checking. A much
better way to get your car diagnosed properly is to carefully note the
symptoms and when they occur, ambient temperature, how long it has been
parked or idling, etc. and then carefully and completely describing the
symptoms to the service advisor and letting the service facility make
diagnosis and repair.

I worked in the auto business for 15 years, and when I took my car to the
shop to have the AC fixed, I said "AC doesn't get cool," not recharge
refrigerant or check schrader valve or check expansion valve, etc.

For example, going to a dealer and asking the dealer to check the idle air
control valve is like going to a doctor with chest pains and asking the
doctor to do exploratory surgery on the right ventricle when the doctor
might just prescribe antacids for heartburn.

I'll give you my educated guesses on what the cause or fix may be, but when
you take your car to get fixed, do yourself a favor and ignore what I and
every other poster tells you and just describe what the car is doing.
--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply

"Ray O" <rokigawa@tristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:
[color=blue]
>
>"Stephen" <stephen2718@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:1109190313.898071.103200@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...[color=green]
>>[color=darkred]
>>>
>>> Sorry, I missed your original list of complaints. Someone mentioned[/color]
>> a[color=darkred]
>>> vacuum leak, and before going around trying to find a leak, you or a[/color]
>> service[color=darkred]
>>> facility should hook up a vacuum guage and see if vacuum is out of[/color]
>> spec.
>>
>> We checked this out and there did not appear to be any vacuum leaks.
>>[color=darkred]
>>>
>>> This sounds like a bad idle air control valve.[/color]
>>
>> I have a couple of questions so that I know exactly what to tell a
>> certified toyota mechanic.
>>
>> Could this type of problem exist without any vacuum leaks? Could this
>> also be an electrical problem? Could this be a problem that is not
>> able to be confirmed by any computer tests? I am asking the last
>> question because nothing has come up on any of the computer tests yet.
>>
>> Thank you for the help Ray O.
>>
>> Stephen
>>[/color]
>Sorry, I still don't know what type of problems you're having other than the
>engine almost dying when idling after a cold soak start so I can't tell you
>if they are likely to be related or not.
>
>In general, various problems can and do exist without vacuum leaks. That is
>why I suggested using a vacuum gauge to check vacuum before looking for
>leaks.
>
>A mistake that many people make is going to a service facility, whether it
>is a dealer, independent repair facility, or their neighbor and asking the
>facility to check a particular component, especially if the person doing the
>asking is not as knowledgeable as the person doing the checking. A much
>better way to get your car diagnosed properly is to carefully note the
>symptoms and when they occur, ambient temperature, how long it has been
>parked or idling, etc. and then carefully and completely describing the
>symptoms to the service advisor and letting the service facility make
>diagnosis and repair.
>
>I worked in the auto business for 15 years, and when I took my car to the
>shop to have the AC fixed, I said "AC doesn't get cool," not recharge
>refrigerant or check schrader valve or check expansion valve, etc.
>
>For example, going to a dealer and asking the dealer to check the idle air
>control valve is like going to a doctor with chest pains and asking the
>doctor to do exploratory surgery on the right ventricle when the doctor
>might just prescribe antacids for heartburn.
>
>I'll give you my educated guesses on what the cause or fix may be, but when
>you take your car to get fixed, do yourself a favor and ignore what I and
>every other poster tells you and just describe what the car is doing.[/color]

Good advice...take it to the bank...
--

-Gord.
(use gordon in email)

Well, the reason why I asked about specific things is that whenever I
took the car with generalizations of the problem, nothing was ever
found. And this was taking it to certified toyota mechanics. :-(

Thanks,
Stephen

"Stephen" <stephen2718@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1109367470.827287.193720@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
> Well, the reason why I asked about specific things is that whenever I
> took the car with generalizations of the problem, nothing was ever
> found. And this was taking it to certified toyota mechanics. :-(
>
> Thanks,
> Stephen
>[/color]

There is no formal title called "Certified Toyota Mechanic" in the U.S.

When you say "certified Toyota Mechanics" do you mean that you took the car
to a Franchised Toyota dealer? Most dealers try to hire technicians who are
trained professionals. A technician not only works on the mechanical
components of the vehicle, the tech can also work on HVAC, electrical,
electronic components, read and interpret a wiring diagram, etc.

After the technicians get some tenure, attend factory required classes, and
pass ASE certifications, they can achieve various designations. I think the
designations have changed, but it used to be Apprentice, Pro, and after at
least 5 years, Master Diagnostic Tech (MDT). The MDT's I personally knew
were all pretty sharp.

A Toyota Apprentice, Pro, or Master Diagnostic Tech must be employed by a
Toyota dealer. If you took your car to a service facility that is not a
franchised Toyota dealer, then whoever worked on your car would at best be a
former Toyota MDT.
--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply

"Ray O" <rokigawa@tristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:
[color=blue]
>
>"Stephen" <stephen2718@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:1109181279.778549.326570@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...[color=green]
>>...
>> In the morning, when the car has been completely cooled down, when I am
>> reversing out of my garage, the car almost dies every time (the RPM
>> guage goes to zero and the engine sounds like it is not even on), and
>> only after putting the car in drive, putting my foot on the gas gently,
>> and waiting will the car go (and it starts out going really really
>> slowly but I am just happy to have it moving).
>>
>> Does any of this add to the situation's clarity or does it just
>> complicate things even more?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Stephen[/color]
>
>This sounds like a bad idle air control valve.[/color]
I agree. I've had the IACV on my '97 Avalon replaced twice (37k and
102k miles) to fix the stalling-when-cold problem.