Corolla 87 Stalls and Hesitating When Cold

"corolla87" <peterfoy@no_spam_please@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4db2a83518f950806b7ae50f9470daf1@localhost.talkaboutautos.com...[color=blue]
> I'm having troubles with my 87 Corolla. It has had new distributor, cap,
> leads, plugs, air and fuel filters, but still when it's cold it stalls
> easily when left to idle, and when gas pedal is pressed the enginge
> hesitates and goes to stall unless i pump the pedal. When trying to start
> off, the car moves and then the engine drops back dramatically... almost
> stalling, the revs drop right down and the car bucks and lurches around.
> The only way of overcoming this is to drop the clutch slightly and pump
> the gas, to get it back to normal, and then raise the clutch to carry
> on.... all this only happens when cold... if I leave the engine to warm
> for about 10 minutes or more, then none of these symptoms exist .... any
> suggestions or cures please? Thanks in advance, Peter.
>[/color]
Is the car fuel-injected or carbureted?

Were the replacement parts, particularly the distributor, distributor cap,
ignition wires, and plug OEM or aftermarket?

Have you checked for a vacuum leak while the condition is manifesting
itself? I've seen thermal vacuum switching valves with plastic bodies that
have developed hairline cracks that seal up when the engine warms the
plastic.

Check for cracks in the intake hose between the air filter and intake
plenum.
--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply

On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 17:47:01 -0600, Ray O wrote:
[color=blue]
>
> "corolla87" <peterfoy@no_spam_please@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:4db2a83518f950806b7ae50f9470daf1@localhost.talkaboutautos.com...[color=green]
>> I'm having troubles with my 87 Corolla. It has had new distributor, cap,
>> leads, plugs, air and fuel filters, but still when it's cold it stalls
>> easily when left to idle, and when gas pedal is pressed the enginge
>> hesitates and goes to stall unless i pump the pedal. When trying to start
>> off, the car moves and then the engine drops back dramatically... almost
>> stalling, the revs drop right down and the car bucks and lurches around.
>> The only way of overcoming this is to drop the clutch slightly and pump
>> the gas, to get it back to normal, and then raise the clutch to carry
>> on.... all this only happens when cold... if I leave the engine to warm
>> for about 10 minutes or more, then none of these symptoms exist .... any
>> suggestions or cures please? Thanks in advance, Peter.
>>[/color]
> Is the car fuel-injected or carbureted?
>
> Were the replacement parts, particularly the distributor, distributor cap,
> ignition wires, and plug OEM or aftermarket?
>
> Have you checked for a vacuum leak while the condition is manifesting
> itself? I've seen thermal vacuum switching valves with plastic bodies that
> have developed hairline cracks that seal up when the engine warms the
> plastic.
>
> Check for cracks in the intake hose between the air filter and intake
> plenum.[/color]

Damn, man! Great minds run in the same circles. Exactly what I was
thinking when I read the post!

87 May have been Carb'd if it was a sedan or an SR-5, may have general
carb problems, too.

"hachiroku" <levin@ae86.gts> wrote in message
news:pC9Td.62739$8a6.16137@trndny09...[color=blue]
> On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 17:47:01 -0600, Ray O wrote:
>[color=green]
>>
>> "corolla87" <peterfoy@no_spam_please@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:4db2a83518f950806b7ae50f9470daf1@localhost.talkaboutautos.com...[color=darkred]
>>> I'm having troubles with my 87 Corolla. It has had new distributor, cap,
>>> leads, plugs, air and fuel filters, but still when it's cold it stalls
>>> easily when left to idle, and when gas pedal is pressed the enginge
>>> hesitates and goes to stall unless i pump the pedal. When trying to
>>> start
>>> off, the car moves and then the engine drops back dramatically... almost
>>> stalling, the revs drop right down and the car bucks and lurches around.
>>> The only way of overcoming this is to drop the clutch slightly and pump
>>> the gas, to get it back to normal, and then raise the clutch to carry
>>> on.... all this only happens when cold... if I leave the engine to warm
>>> for about 10 minutes or more, then none of these symptoms exist .... any
>>> suggestions or cures please? Thanks in advance, Peter.
>>>[/color]
>> Is the car fuel-injected or carbureted?
>>
>> Were the replacement parts, particularly the distributor, distributor
>> cap,
>> ignition wires, and plug OEM or aftermarket?
>>
>> Have you checked for a vacuum leak while the condition is manifesting
>> itself? I've seen thermal vacuum switching valves with plastic bodies
>> that
>> have developed hairline cracks that seal up when the engine warms the
>> plastic.
>>
>> Check for cracks in the intake hose between the air filter and intake
>> plenum.[/color]
>
> Damn, man! Great minds run in the same circles. Exactly what I was
> thinking when I read the post!
>
> 87 May have been Carb'd if it was a sedan or an SR-5, may have general
> carb problems, too.[/color]

That's cuz we share the same experience with Yankee techs in western Mass!
--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply

hachiroku wrote:[color=blue]
>
> On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 17:47:01 -0600, Ray O wrote:
>[color=green]
> >
> > "corolla87" <peterfoy@no_spam_please@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:4db2a83518f950806b7ae50f9470daf1@localhost.talkaboutautos.com...[color=darkred]
> >> I'm having troubles with my 87 Corolla. It has had new distributor, cap,
> >> leads, plugs, air and fuel filters, but still when it's cold it stalls
> >> easily when left to idle, and when gas pedal is pressed the enginge
> >> hesitates and goes to stall unless i pump the pedal. When trying to start
> >> off, the car moves and then the engine drops back dramatically... almost
> >> stalling, the revs drop right down and the car bucks and lurches around.
> >> The only way of overcoming this is to drop the clutch slightly and pump
> >> the gas, to get it back to normal, and then raise the clutch to carry
> >> on.... all this only happens when cold... if I leave the engine to warm
> >> for about 10 minutes or more, then none of these symptoms exist .... any
> >> suggestions or cures please? Thanks in advance, Peter.
> >>[/color]
> > Is the car fuel-injected or carbureted?
> >
> > Were the replacement parts, particularly the distributor, distributor cap,
> > ignition wires, and plug OEM or aftermarket?
> >
> > Have you checked for a vacuum leak while the condition is manifesting
> > itself? I've seen thermal vacuum switching valves with plastic bodies that
> > have developed hairline cracks that seal up when the engine warms the
> > plastic.
> >
> > Check for cracks in the intake hose between the air filter and intake
> > plenum.[/color]
>
> Damn, man! Great minds run in the same circles. Exactly what I was
> thinking when I read the post!
>
> 87 May have been Carb'd if it was a sedan or an SR-5, may have general
> carb problems, too.[/color]

To the original poster: Have you ever replaced the fuel hoses? My 87
Corolla SR5 (carb'ed 4A-C SOHC) was having similar problems about two
years ago, although not only when it was cold. The fuel hoses had
hardened due to age and were sometimes letting in air at the connections
to the fuel lines and/or filter. Intermittently and without warning,
the RPMs would drop and the car would buck as the engine stumbled and
threatened to stall, or actually stalled. Depressing the accelerator
while this was happening would stall it (by leaning the mixture), but
pumping the pedal shallowly could help. (I attribute the benefit of
pumping to the AAP, or auxiliary acceleration pump.) While the engine
was running badly (at idle), I could see many large bubbles passing
through the fuel filter. I replaced the fuel hoses, using new worm
screw-type hose clamps, and the problem went away. It's possible that a
marginal hose in the engine compartment would seal better once it was
warmed by the engine, as the rubber become softer and more conforming
with heat. (Incidentally, this property--rubber hardening and not
sealing as well when cold--is what caused the space shuttle Challenger
accident! [Not that the outcome in that case relates in any way to your
car.])

The second thing I thought of immediately is vacuum leaks, just like Ray
and hachiroku. Great minds think sense! :)

Stephen

Slight possibility is that the ignition coil is going out....is it damp
when this happens.

Wow, thanks for all the great thought guys !! - It's an 87 Carb model. The
fuel lines could make sense... The filter is a clear replacement, and when
the engine's off, the filter's empty, and when first started you can see
that the filter is only half full with fuel, so maybe there could be some
leak in the fuel rubber pipes, they are almost brittle with really bad
clips on them. I'll investigate those further...as your comments about
gently pumping the gas pedal to overcome the bucking makes sense... My
other thoughts are the vacuum pipes, but all the one's i've tested are
coming back with good suction. The cold/warm flap in the air intake pipe
at the front is working ... it's as if the auto choke isn't kicking in
like it should ... I've WD40 the linkages and all other moving parts on
the outside of the carb... I'll work on it tomorrow and let you know the
outcomes...

On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 22:32:34 +0000, Stephen Bendzick wrote:
[color=blue]
> hachiroku wrote:[color=green]
>>
>> On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 17:47:01 -0600, Ray O wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>> >
>> > "corolla87" <peterfoy@no_spam_please@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> > news:4db2a83518f950806b7ae50f9470daf1@localhost.talkaboutautos.com...
>> >> I'm having troubles with my 87 Corolla. It has had new distributor, cap,
>> >> leads, plugs, air and fuel filters, but still when it's cold it stalls
>> >> easily when left to idle, and when gas pedal is pressed the enginge
>> >> hesitates and goes to stall unless i pump the pedal. When trying to start
>> >> off, the car moves and then the engine drops back dramatically... almost
>> >> stalling, the revs drop right down and the car bucks and lurches around.
>> >> The only way of overcoming this is to drop the clutch slightly and pump
>> >> the gas, to get it back to normal, and then raise the clutch to carry
>> >> on.... all this only happens when cold... if I leave the engine to warm
>> >> for about 10 minutes or more, then none of these symptoms exist .... any
>> >> suggestions or cures please? Thanks in advance, Peter.
>> >>
>> > Is the car fuel-injected or carbureted?
>> >
>> > Were the replacement parts, particularly the distributor, distributor cap,
>> > ignition wires, and plug OEM or aftermarket?
>> >
>> > Have you checked for a vacuum leak while the condition is manifesting
>> > itself? I've seen thermal vacuum switching valves with plastic bodies that
>> > have developed hairline cracks that seal up when the engine warms the
>> > plastic.
>> >
>> > Check for cracks in the intake hose between the air filter and intake
>> > plenum.[/color]
>>
>> Damn, man! Great minds run in the same circles. Exactly what I was
>> thinking when I read the post!
>>
>> 87 May have been Carb'd if it was a sedan or an SR-5, may have general
>> carb problems, too.[/color]
>
> To the original poster: Have you ever replaced the fuel hoses? My 87
> Corolla SR5 (carb'ed 4A-C SOHC) was having similar problems about two
> years ago, although not only when it was cold. The fuel hoses had
> hardened due to age and were sometimes letting in air at the connections
> to the fuel lines and/or filter. Intermittently and without warning,
> the RPMs would drop and the car would buck as the engine stumbled and
> threatened to stall, or actually stalled. Depressing the accelerator
> while this was happening would stall it (by leaning the mixture), but
> pumping the pedal shallowly could help. (I attribute the benefit of
> pumping to the AAP, or auxiliary acceleration pump.) While the engine
> was running badly (at idle), I could see many large bubbles passing
> through the fuel filter. I replaced the fuel hoses, using new worm
> screw-type hose clamps, and the problem went away. It's possible that a
> marginal hose in the engine compartment would seal better once it was
> warmed by the engine, as the rubber become softer and more conforming
> with heat. (Incidentally, this property--rubber hardening and not
> sealing as well when cold--is what caused the space shuttle Challenger
> accident! [Not that the outcome in that case relates in any way to your
> car.])
>
> The second thing I thought of immediately is vacuum leaks, just like Ray
> and hachiroku. Great minds think sense! :)
>
> Stephen[/color]


HAHA! Yeah! Fuel lines was a good tip, too!

if this is a gts or a RWD Corolla you can start fixing it by selling it to
me :)

--
Enorym
[url]http://atomicinternet.homeip.net/xtra/myrone/[/url]
[email]Enorym@gmail.com[/email]
"corolla87" <peterfoy@no_spam_please@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4db2a83518f950806b7ae50f9470daf1@localhost.talkaboutautos.com...[color=blue]
> I'm having troubles with my 87 Corolla. It has had new distributor, cap,
> leads, plugs, air and fuel filters, but still when it's cold it stalls
> easily when left to idle, and when gas pedal is pressed the enginge
> hesitates and goes to stall unless i pump the pedal. When trying to start
> off, the car moves and then the engine drops back dramatically... almost
> stalling, the revs drop right down and the car bucks and lurches around.
> The only way of overcoming this is to drop the clutch slightly and pump
> the gas, to get it back to normal, and then raise the clutch to carry
> on.... all this only happens when cold... if I leave the engine to warm
> for about 10 minutes or more, then none of these symptoms exist .... any
> suggestions or cures please? Thanks in advance, Peter.
>
>[/color]

... whoa there ... Not For Sale ... I've replaced the fuel foses from tank
outlet in the engine bay to fuel pump ... on inspection the old ones were
quite baggy at the openings and frayed ... could be the answer ... it's
running fine now, but I need a cold morning etc to test it, so I'll wait
for tomorrow morning to see if there's a marked difference ... definitely
a marginal difference ... next thing could be to check / swap the vacuum
pipes, there's not more than about 2 metres of pipe, which should be very
cheap to do.

"corolla87" <peterfoy@no_spam_please@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:31aab882418e96bce15a7504f2095e0f@localhost.talkaboutautos.com...[color=blue]
> Wow, thanks for all the great thought guys !! - It's an 87 Carb model. The
> fuel lines could make sense... The filter is a clear replacement, and when
> the engine's off, the filter's empty, and when first started you can see
> that the filter is only half full with fuel, so maybe there could be some
> leak in the fuel rubber pipes, they are almost brittle with really bad
> clips on them. I'll investigate those further...as your comments about
> gently pumping the gas pedal to overcome the bucking makes sense... My
> other thoughts are the vacuum pipes, but all the one's i've tested are
> coming back with good suction. The cold/warm flap in the air intake pipe
> at the front is working ... it's as if the auto choke isn't kicking in
> like it should ... I've WD40 the linkages and all other moving parts on
> the outside of the carb... I'll work on it tomorrow and let you know the
> outcomes...
>[/color]

Rather than disconnecting vacuum lines and trying to check the suction, a
more accurate way to look for vacuum leaks is to attach a vacuum gauge.

It is easy to check if the auto choke is working. After the car has sat for
at least 4 hours, remove the air filter, get in the car, and depress the
accelerator pedal all the way to the floor and release your foot. Look down
into the carburetor and see if the butterfly plate is in the closed
position. If you see any varnish inside the car, you can squirt a little
carb cleaner and wipe it off. Keep in mind that WD 40 is not really a
lubricant so I wouldn't use it around a carb.
--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply

On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 06:34:39 -0500, corolla87 wrote:
[color=blue]
> .. whoa there ... Not For Sale ... I've replaced the fuel foses from tank
> outlet in the engine bay to fuel pump ... on inspection the old ones were
> quite baggy at the openings and frayed ... could be the answer ... it's
> running fine now, but I need a cold morning etc to test it, so I'll wait
> for tomorrow morning to see if there's a marked difference ... definitely
> a marginal difference ... next thing could be to check / swap the vacuum
> pipes, there's not more than about 2 metres of pipe, which should be very
> cheap to do.[/color]

Not For Sale, eh? Slap it on E-Bay and watch the fireworks! Me and Myrone
will be sluggin it out!

Is it a 4A-GE or GZE GT-E /Levin/Trueno/Apex?

Okay, done the fuel hoses, had two days of cold morning starts. It is
marginally better, and the fuel filter stays full without any bubbles in
it. The stalling is slightly better, and the car bucks less, but it's
still not where it should be. It seems as though the autochoke isn't
kicking in when it first starts, so pedal pumping is still needed for the
first 5 minutes to keep it alive. I guess it's vacuum hoses next, although
when checking them I see nothing wrong, and when removing them and checking
with thuimb over the ends there's suction... hmmm?

"corolla87" <peterfoy@no_spam_please@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:08057080bb3c90df6400b08319abdee1@localhost.talkaboutautos.com...[color=blue]
> Okay, done the fuel hoses, had two days of cold morning starts. It is
> marginally better, and the fuel filter stays full without any bubbles in
> it. The stalling is slightly better, and the car bucks less, but it's
> still not where it should be. It seems as though the autochoke isn't
> kicking in when it first starts, so pedal pumping is still needed for the
> first 5 minutes to keep it alive. I guess it's vacuum hoses next, although
> when checking them I see nothing wrong, and when removing them and
> checking
> with thuimb over the ends there's suction... hmmm?
>[/color]
The "thumb over the vacuum hose" test is not a valid one.

Use a vacuum gauge to check for vacuum leaks.
Check to make sure that the plate in the carburetor closes when you set the
choke.
--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply

When you say "Set the Choke" do you mean depress the gas pedal once firmly
to the floor before starting? IF so, when I do that the butterfly flap in
the choke stands on end so I can see right down inside the carb.

"corolla87" <peterfoy@no_spam_please@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:d1132f0fa5ce6586602f12837dff843d@localhost.talkaboutautos.com...[color=blue]
> When you say "Set the Choke" do you mean depress the gas pedal once firmly
> to the floor before starting? IF so, when I do that the butterfly flap in
> the choke stands on end so I can see right down inside the carb.
>[/color]
For a Toyota with an automatic choke like your car, "set the choke" does
mean depress the gas pedal once to the floor before starting.

The butterfly flap in the venturi should be in the almost closed position so
you cannot see down inside the carb when the choke is set.

If it is standing on end and you can see straight down inside the carb when
the engine is cold, that is the cause of the rough idling/hard start. Your
choke is not setting correctly.

--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply