Toyota Dealer Ripped me off

"David" <none> wrote in message news:bPmdnRw4PKJYnLnfRVn-uQ@athenet.net...[color=blue]
> My local dealer Kolosso Toyota in Appleton WI talked me into having the
> manual transmission oil changed in my 01 Celica GTS as part of the 60,000
> mile scheduled service. They said the 60,000 mile service requires the
> changing of ALL fluids in the car. They charged me $62.95 to change the
> manual transmission oil.
>
> When I got home, I checked the manuals. The manuals do talk about the[/color]
need[color=blue]
> to change automatic transmission fluid at certain intervals, but there is[/color]
NO[color=blue]
> mention of any schedule to change the manual transmission oil EVER unless
> "you drive primarily while towing a trailer or using a camper or car-top
> carrier. If you drive only occasionally under these conditions, it is not
> necessary to perform the additional services."
>
> Based on that information, I think they ripped me off by performing
> maintenance that is not required on a Celica. How many Celicas are used
> "primarily while towing a trailer...."? I'm tempted to file a complaint
> with the Better Business Bureau.
>[/color]
If the most money you have ever been ripped off for by a car dealer is
$62.95, then you are way ahead of 99.9% of the population.

Also, you have learned a valuable lesson that you need to do your research
before you talk to an auto dealer or repair shop. That lesson will save you
a lot more than $62.95 over your lifetime.

Mark A wrote:
[color=blue]
> "David" <none> wrote in message news:bPmdnRw4PKJYnLnfRVn-uQ@athenet.net...
>[color=green]
>>My local dealer Kolosso Toyota in Appleton WI talked me into having the
>>manual transmission oil changed in my 01 Celica GTS as part of the 60,000
>>mile scheduled service. They said the 60,000 mile service requires the
>>changing of ALL fluids in the car. They charged me $62.95 to change the
>>manual transmission oil.
>>
>>When I got home, I checked the manuals. The manuals do talk about the[/color]
>
> need
>[color=green]
>>to change automatic transmission fluid at certain intervals, but there is[/color]
>
> NO
>[color=green]
>>mention of any schedule to change the manual transmission oil EVER unless
>>"you drive primarily while towing a trailer or using a camper or car-top
>>carrier. If you drive only occasionally under these conditions, it is not
>>necessary to perform the additional services."
>>
>>Based on that information, I think they ripped me off by performing
>>maintenance that is not required on a Celica. How many Celicas are used
>>"primarily while towing a trailer...."? I'm tempted to file a complaint
>>with the Better Business Bureau.
>>[/color]
>
> If the most money you have ever been ripped off for by a car dealer is
> $62.95, then you are way ahead of 99.9% of the population.
>
> Also, you have learned a valuable lesson that you need to do your research
> before you talk to an auto dealer or repair shop. That lesson will save you
> a lot more than $62.95 over your lifetime.[/color]

I wouldn't consider the fluid change itself a ripoff. Dealers often
do services above and beyond Toyota's own recommendations. While
occasionally shady in doing WAY too much stuff, most will outline
exactly what they plan on doing and you should be able to decline any
service you don't want. The actual recommendation isn't that it will
**never** have to be replaced under "normal" driving conditions. It's
that it should be inspected every 30K miles and replaced if the fluid
noticeably degrades.

I don't trust that fluid technology has gotten so good that it NEVER
has to be replaced under normal driving conditions. My current car
has a similar 30K inspect and replace if necessary recommendation, and
I plan on using Red Line 75W90NS every 30K miles. I don't plan on
leaving tons of metal shavings in there for the life of the car. I
just wanted to get the Red Line in there at about 4K miles, and the
fluid came out with a massive amount of metal, which I understand is
normal for a transmission breaking in (this was the first time I'd
ever done the first tranny fluid change for any particular car).

Now going to the dealer for this kind of service is the real ripoff.
You could probably do it yourself for the cost of 3-4 quarts of 75W90
GL5 gear oil and a replacement gasket (maybe $16). If you want to
go one better, you could use a synthetic like Mobil 1 or Red Line.
The Japanese car specialist I take my cars to would charge for the
fluid and maybe 15 minutes of labor - maybe $35-40.

On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 07:15:49 GMT, y_p_w <y_p_w@hotmail.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>
>
>Mark A wrote:
>[color=green]
>> "David" <none> wrote in message news:bPmdnRw4PKJYnLnfRVn-uQ@athenet.net...
>>[color=darkred]
>>>My local dealer Kolosso Toyota in Appleton WI talked me into having the
>>>manual transmission oil changed in my 01 Celica GTS as part of the 60,000
>>>mile scheduled service. They said the 60,000 mile service requires the
>>>changing of ALL fluids in the car. They charged me $62.95 to change the
>>>manual transmission oil.
>>>
>>>When I got home, I checked the manuals. The manuals do talk about the[/color]
>>
>> need
>>[color=darkred]
>>>to change automatic transmission fluid at certain intervals, but there is[/color]
>>
>> NO
>>[color=darkred]
>>>mention of any schedule to change the manual transmission oil EVER unless
>>>"you drive primarily while towing a trailer or using a camper or car-top
>>>carrier. If you drive only occasionally under these conditions, it is not
>>>necessary to perform the additional services."
>>>
>>>Based on that information, I think they ripped me off by performing
>>>maintenance that is not required on a Celica. How many Celicas are used
>>>"primarily while towing a trailer...."? I'm tempted to file a complaint
>>>with the Better Business Bureau.
>>>[/color]
>>
>> If the most money you have ever been ripped off for by a car dealer is
>> $62.95, then you are way ahead of 99.9% of the population.
>>
>> Also, you have learned a valuable lesson that you need to do your research
>> before you talk to an auto dealer or repair shop. That lesson will save you
>> a lot more than $62.95 over your lifetime.[/color]
>
>I wouldn't consider the fluid change itself a ripoff. Dealers often
>do services above and beyond Toyota's own recommendations. While
>occasionally shady in doing WAY too much stuff, most will outline
>exactly what they plan on doing and you should be able to decline any
>service you don't want. The actual recommendation isn't that it will
>**never** have to be replaced under "normal" driving conditions. It's
>that it should be inspected every 30K miles and replaced if the fluid
>noticeably degrades.
>
>I don't trust that fluid technology has gotten so good that it NEVER
>has to be replaced under normal driving conditions. My current car
>has a similar 30K inspect and replace if necessary recommendation, and
>I plan on using Red Line 75W90NS every 30K miles. I don't plan on
>leaving tons of metal shavings in there for the life of the car. I
>just wanted to get the Red Line in there at about 4K miles, and the
>fluid came out with a massive amount of metal, which I understand is
>normal for a transmission breaking in (this was the first time I'd
>ever done the first tranny fluid change for any particular car).
>
>Now going to the dealer for this kind of service is the real ripoff.
>You could probably do it yourself for the cost of 3-4 quarts of 75W90
>GL5 gear oil and a replacement gasket (maybe $16). If you want to
>go one better, you could use a synthetic like Mobil 1 or Red Line.
>The Japanese car specialist I take my cars to would charge for the
>fluid and maybe 15 minutes of labor - maybe $35-40.[/color]

Going to the dealer for ANYTHING = getting ripped off. _ANYTHING_


--
gburnore@databasix dot com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
How you look depends on where you go.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gary L. Burnore | ÝÛ³ºÝ³Þ³ºÝ³³Ýۺݳ޳ºÝ³Ý³Þ³ºÝ³ÝÝÛ³
| ÝÛ³ºÝ³Þ³ºÝ³³Ýۺݳ޳ºÝ³Ý³Þ³ºÝ³ÝÝÛ³
DataBasix | ÝÛ³ºÝ³Þ³ºÝ³³Ýۺݳ޳ºÝ³Ý³Þ³ºÝ³ÝÝÛ³
| ÝÛ³ 3 4 1 4 2 ݳ޳ 6 9 0 6 9 ÝÛ³
Black Helicopter Repair Svcs Division | Official Proof of Purchase
===========================================================================
Want one? GET one! [url]http://signup.databasix.com[/url]
===========================================================================

Gary L. Burnore wrote:[color=blue]
> On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 07:15:49 GMT, y_p_w <y_p_w@hotmail.com> wrote:[/color]
[color=blue]
> Going to the dealer for ANYTHING = getting ripped off. _ANYTHING_[/color]

Well... The local GM dealer has $18 oil changes. :)

On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 07:15:49 +0000, y_p_w wrote:
[color=blue]
>
>
> Mark A wrote:
>[color=green]
>> "David" <none> wrote in message news:bPmdnRw4PKJYnLnfRVn-uQ@athenet.net...
>>[color=darkred]
>>>My local dealer Kolosso Toyota in Appleton WI talked me into having the
>>>manual transmission oil changed in my 01 Celica GTS as part of the 60,000
>>>mile scheduled service. They said the 60,000 mile service requires the
>>>changing of ALL fluids in the car. They charged me $62.95 to change the
>>>manual transmission oil.
>>>
>>>When I got home, I checked the manuals. The manuals do talk about the[/color]
>>
>> need
>>[color=darkred]
>>>to change automatic transmission fluid at certain intervals, but there is[/color]
>>
>> NO
>>[color=darkred]
>>>mention of any schedule to change the manual transmission oil EVER unless
>>>"you drive primarily while towing a trailer or using a camper or car-top
>>>carrier. If you drive only occasionally under these conditions, it is not
>>>necessary to perform the additional services."
>>>
>>>Based on that information, I think they ripped me off by performing
>>>maintenance that is not required on a Celica. How many Celicas are used
>>>"primarily while towing a trailer...."? I'm tempted to file a complaint
>>>with the Better Business Bureau.
>>>[/color]
>>
>> If the most money you have ever been ripped off for by a car dealer is
>> $62.95, then you are way ahead of 99.9% of the population.
>>
>> Also, you have learned a valuable lesson that you need to do your research
>> before you talk to an auto dealer or repair shop. That lesson will save you
>> a lot more than $62.95 over your lifetime.[/color]
>
> I wouldn't consider the fluid change itself a ripoff. Dealers often
> do services above and beyond Toyota's own recommendations. While
> occasionally shady in doing WAY too much stuff, most will outline
> exactly what they plan on doing and you should be able to decline any
> service you don't want. The actual recommendation isn't that it will
> **never** have to be replaced under "normal" driving conditions. It's
> that it should be inspected every 30K miles and replaced if the fluid
> noticeably degrades.
>
> I don't trust that fluid technology has gotten so good that it NEVER
> has to be replaced under normal driving conditions. My current car
> has a similar 30K inspect and replace if necessary recommendation, and
> I plan on using Red Line 75W90NS every 30K miles. I don't plan on
> leaving tons of metal shavings in there for the life of the car. I
> just wanted to get the Red Line in there at about 4K miles, and the
> fluid came out with a massive amount of metal, which I understand is
> normal for a transmission breaking in (this was the first time I'd
> ever done the first tranny fluid change for any particular car).[/color]

I bought my GTS from the Service Manager at a Toyota dealership. I called
him one morning and said I wanted the gear oil changed in the tranny. He
told me, you NEVER change the gear oil in the tranny. I told him I heard
my wife trying to put it in reverse that morning, forggetting about the
clutch. From him on the phoe...change...gear...oil... (as he was writing).
What he DID say was you check it once in a while and top off if required.

David wrote:[color=blue]
>
> My local dealer Kolosso Toyota in Appleton WI talked me into having the
> manual transmission oil changed in my 01 Celica GTS as part of the 60,000
> mile scheduled service. They said the 60,000 mile service requires the
> changing of ALL fluids in the car. They charged me $62.95 to change the
> manual transmission oil.
>
> When I got home, I checked the manuals. The manuals do talk about the need
> to change automatic transmission fluid at certain intervals, but there is NO
> mention of any schedule to change the manual transmission oil EVER unless
> "you drive primarily while towing a trailer or using a camper or car-top
> carrier. If you drive only occasionally under these conditions, it is not
> necessary to perform the additional services."
>
> Based on that information, I think they ripped me off by performing
> maintenance that is not required on a Celica. How many Celicas are used
> "primarily while towing a trailer...."? I'm tempted to file a complaint
> with the Better Business Bureau.[/color]

I can give you a good reason for having the transmission
fluid changed - you now know you have enough! I've known of
several cases where all the fluid leaked out of a manual
transmission over a very long period of time, The leaks were
never large enough to attract attention until the
transmission failed.

Although I don't appreciate dealers who create their own
especially expensive maintenance schedules, I don' think it
is a bad thing to change the fluid in a manual transmission
occasionally. Changing the fluid in your transmission after
4 years and 60,000 miles was a good thing. Too bad the
dealer didn't offer it as an additional recommended but not
required service.

Ed

"David" <none> wrote in message news:bPmdnRw4PKJYnLnfRVn-uQ@athenet.net...[color=blue]
> My local dealer Kolosso Toyota in Appleton WI talked me into having the
> manual transmission oil changed in my 01 Celica GTS as part of the 60,000
> mile scheduled service. They said the 60,000 mile service requires the
> changing of ALL fluids in the car. They charged me $62.95 to change the
> manual transmission oil.
>
> When I got home, I checked the manuals. The manuals do talk about the[/color]
need[color=blue]
> to change automatic transmission fluid at certain intervals, but there is[/color]
NO[color=blue]
> mention of any schedule to change the manual transmission oil EVER unless
> "you drive primarily while towing a trailer or using a camper or car-top
> carrier. If you drive only occasionally under these conditions, it is not
> necessary to perform the additional services."
>
> Based on that information, I think they ripped me off by performing
> maintenance that is not required on a Celica. How many Celicas are used
> "primarily while towing a trailer...."? I'm tempted to file a complaint
> with the Better Business Bureau.
>[/color]

Perhaps you should have read the manual before going in - if you've been
going to dealers and having them perform service without knowledge of
scheduled maintentance, then you've probably paid for a lot of other
un-necessary services too. And I don't think the BBB is going to care about
this - they performed a legitimate service which you agreed to and paid for.
Be more informed next time.

Joseph Oberlander wrote the following on 3/1/2005 5:00 AM:[color=blue]
> Gary L. Burnore wrote:
>[color=green]
>> On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 07:15:49 GMT, y_p_w <y_p_w@hotmail.com> wrote:[/color]
>
>[color=green]
>> Going to the dealer for ANYTHING = getting ripped off. _ANYTHING_[/color]
>
>
> Well... The local GM dealer has $18 oil changes. :)
>[/color]

My Toyota dealer will do oil changes with Toyota filter for $12.95.
If not finished in 30 minutes, next one is free. I don't call that getting
ripped off.

If the dealer didn't advise you that they intended to change the
transmission fluid, that's wrong. However, I think changing the fluid at 60K
is a good idea. As someone else wrote, metal shavings are common and I would
add that water, or at least condensationa, is also common. As for the 60
buck charge, that doesn't seem too bad to me when you consider what a pain
this job is to do yourself. It certainly can't hurt to change it and you now
have just a bit more peace of mind.
jor (apparently the only TP in this thread)[color=blue]
>[/color]
"David" <none> wrote in message news:bPmdnRw4PKJYnLnfRVn-uQ@athenet.net...[color=blue]
> My local dealer Kolosso Toyota in Appleton WI talked me into having the
> manual transmission oil changed in my 01 Celica GTS as part of the 60,000
> mile scheduled service. They said the 60,000 mile service requires the
> changing of ALL fluids in the car. They charged me $62.95 to change the
> manual transmission oil.
>
> When I got home, I checked the manuals. The manuals do talk about the
> need
> to change automatic transmission fluid at certain intervals, but there is
> NO
> mention of any schedule to change the manual transmission oil EVER unless
> "you drive primarily while towing a trailer or using a camper or car-top
> carrier. If you drive only occasionally under these conditions, it is not
> necessary to perform the additional services."
>
> Based on that information, I think they ripped me off by performing
> maintenance that is not required on a Celica. How many Celicas are used
> "primarily while towing a trailer...."? I'm tempted to file a complaint
> with the Better Business Bureau.
>
>[/color]

On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 23:46:43 -0600, "David" <none> wrote:
[color=blue]
>My local dealer Kolosso Toyota in Appleton WI talked me into having the
>manual transmission oil changed in my 01 Celica GTS as part of the 60,000
>mile scheduled service. They said the 60,000 mile service requires the
>changing of ALL fluids in the car. They charged me $62.95 to change the
>manual transmission oil.
>
>When I got home, I checked the manuals. The manuals do talk about the need
>to change automatic transmission fluid at certain intervals, but there is NO
>mention of any schedule to change the manual transmission oil EVER unless
>"you drive primarily while towing a trailer or using a camper or car-top
>carrier. If you drive only occasionally under these conditions, it is not
>necessary to perform the additional services."
>
>Based on that information, I think they ripped me off by performing
>maintenance that is not required on a Celica. How many Celicas are used
>"primarily while towing a trailer...."? I'm tempted to file a complaint
>with the Better Business Bureau.
>[/color]


First, calm down, your manual was writen probley back in 2000, the
maintance schedule he uses is up to date, and probly has the benifit
of having hind sight.

So, check for the up todate maintenance schedule from toyota.

BTW, always check with the bbb about any company you get services
from. But dont' report them till you exhausted every other step. IE,
don't burn bridges.

later,

tom @ [url]www.MedicalJobList.com[/url]

On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 04:11:12 -0500, Gary L. Burnore
<gburnore@databasix.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 07:15:49 GMT, y_p_w <y_p_w@hotmail.com> wrote:
>[color=green]
>>
>>
>>Mark A wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>> "David" <none> wrote in message news:bPmdnRw4PKJYnLnfRVn-uQ@athenet.net...
>>>
>>>>My local dealer Kolosso Toyota in Appleton WI talked me into having the
>>>>manual transmission oil changed in my 01 Celica GTS as part of the 60,000
>>>>mile scheduled service. They said the 60,000 mile service requires the
>>>>changing of ALL fluids in the car. They charged me $62.95 to change the
>>>>manual transmission oil.
>>>>
>>>>When I got home, I checked the manuals. The manuals do talk about the
>>>
>>> need
>>>
>>>>to change automatic transmission fluid at certain intervals, but there is
>>>
>>> NO
>>>
>>>>mention of any schedule to change the manual transmission oil EVER unless
>>>>"you drive primarily while towing a trailer or using a camper or car-top
>>>>carrier. If you drive only occasionally under these conditions, it is not
>>>>necessary to perform the additional services."
>>>>
>>>>Based on that information, I think they ripped me off by performing
>>>>maintenance that is not required on a Celica. How many Celicas are used
>>>>"primarily while towing a trailer...."? I'm tempted to file a complaint
>>>>with the Better Business Bureau.
>>>>
>>>
>>> If the most money you have ever been ripped off for by a car dealer is
>>> $62.95, then you are way ahead of 99.9% of the population.
>>>
>>> Also, you have learned a valuable lesson that you need to do your research
>>> before you talk to an auto dealer or repair shop. That lesson will save you
>>> a lot more than $62.95 over your lifetime.[/color]
>>
>>I wouldn't consider the fluid change itself a ripoff. Dealers often
>>do services above and beyond Toyota's own recommendations. While
>>occasionally shady in doing WAY too much stuff, most will outline
>>exactly what they plan on doing and you should be able to decline any
>>service you don't want. The actual recommendation isn't that it will
>>**never** have to be replaced under "normal" driving conditions. It's
>>that it should be inspected every 30K miles and replaced if the fluid
>>noticeably degrades.
>>
>>I don't trust that fluid technology has gotten so good that it NEVER
>>has to be replaced under normal driving conditions. My current car
>>has a similar 30K inspect and replace if necessary recommendation, and
>>I plan on using Red Line 75W90NS every 30K miles. I don't plan on
>>leaving tons of metal shavings in there for the life of the car. I
>>just wanted to get the Red Line in there at about 4K miles, and the
>>fluid came out with a massive amount of metal, which I understand is
>>normal for a transmission breaking in (this was the first time I'd
>>ever done the first tranny fluid change for any particular car).
>>
>>Now going to the dealer for this kind of service is the real ripoff.
>>You could probably do it yourself for the cost of 3-4 quarts of 75W90
>>GL5 gear oil and a replacement gasket (maybe $16). If you want to
>>go one better, you could use a synthetic like Mobil 1 or Red Line.
>>The Japanese car specialist I take my cars to would charge for the
>>fluid and maybe 15 minutes of labor - maybe $35-40.[/color]
>
>Going to the dealer for ANYTHING = getting ripped off. _ANYTHING_[/color]


Now, now, play nice.


:-P

tom

David wrote:[color=blue]
> My local dealer Kolosso Toyota in Appleton WI talked me into having
> the manual transmission oil changed in my 01 Celica GTS as part of
> the 60,000 mile scheduled service. They said the 60,000 mile service
> requires the changing of ALL fluids in the car. They charged me
> $62.95 to change the manual transmission oil.
>
> When I got home, I checked the manuals. The manuals do talk about
> the need to change automatic transmission fluid at certain intervals,
> but there is NO mention of any schedule to change the manual
> transmission oil EVER unless "you drive primarily while towing a
> trailer or using a camper or car-top carrier. If you drive only
> occasionally under these conditions, it is not necessary to perform
> the additional services."
>
> Based on that information, I think they ripped me off by performing
> maintenance that is not required on a Celica. How many Celicas are
> used "primarily while towing a trailer...."? I'm tempted to file a
> complaint with the Better Business Bureau.[/color]

Forget the BBB. Big yawner.

You should feel "ripped off" (a highly over used phrase describing anything
a customer does not understand and was charged for) IF ... the dealer
charged you for replacing the gearbox oil but did not actually do it.
Personally, I would be pleased with this particular service because NOT
everything that should be done by the long term owner is mentioned in the
minimum service schedule.
--

- Philip

Gary L. Burnore wrote:[color=blue]
>
> Going to the dealer for ANYTHING = getting ripped off. _ANYTHING_[/color]

Rubbish. There are many things that OEM quality parts are the best and in
some cases, the only source for quality parts (ie, body parts, emissions
parts, etc).
--

- Philip

" NOT everything that should be done by the long term owner is mentioned in
the minimum service schedule.[color=blue]
> --
>
> - Philip
>[/color]
That's a new one on me. Actually the service schedule's are quite
conservative. Still, changing fluids at 60,000 miles is not the worst think
you could do with your money.

My PT Cruiser's power steering started to make noise at about that point and
a flush with new fluid cured that. Still, I would think a flush of brake
fluid at that point by his dealer would have been money better spent, but
that is not as easy and profitable as changing the transaxle fluid.

Richard.

jor wrote:
[color=blue]
> If the dealer didn't advise you that they intended to change the
> transmission fluid, that's wrong. However, I think changing the fluid at 60K
> is a good idea. As someone else wrote, metal shavings are common and I would
> add that water, or at least condensationa, is also common. As for the 60
> buck charge, that doesn't seem too bad to me when you consider what a pain
> this job is to do yourself. It certainly can't hurt to change it and you now
> have just a bit more peace of mind.
> jor (apparently the only TP in this thread)[/color]

This seems to be a really easy job to do, although I've never done the
job on this particular model. The following gives detailed instructions
on the tools needed, although the guy used Red Line MT-90 instead of the
recommended 75W90 GL-5 gear oil.

<http://www.toyotaunderground.net/showthread.php?t=169>

The parts needed are a 10/17/24 mm sockets and replacement gaskets.
It might need a breaker bar. I don't know if you need the pump. I've
been able to do similar work with a funnel with a long extension, by
filling slowly from the top.

At least they haven't gone nuts like my new car (not a Toyota). The
transmission drain bolt needs to be removed with a T70 Torx bit.