CR auto reliability

Can you believe this?
[url]http://www.suntimes.com/output/business/cst-fin-auto08.html[/url]

--
No matter what happens, someone will find a way to take it too
seriously.

Why would anybody believe CR? LOL


mike hunt

badgolferman wrote:[color=blue]
>
> Can you believe this?
> [url]http://www.suntimes.com/output/business/cst-fin-auto08.html[/url]
>
> --
> No matter what happens, someone will find a way to take it too
> seriously.[/color]

<DustyRhoades@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:422DC142.893D02DF@mailcity.com...[color=blue]
> Why would anybody believe CR? LOL
>
>
> mike hunt
>[/color]

Yeah, I'd rather take my advice and reliability ratings from the magazines
that accept advertising from the people they are reporting on. That way, I
know that the source I am using to decide on my investment has lots more
money to really get the best information in an unbiased fashion.

So what if they don't buy the cars they test, or survey thousands of owners?
They just know better.

--
"Stay calm. Be brave. Wait for the signs."

regards,

Frank Johansen
Aurora, Ontario

badgolferman wrote:[color=blue]
>
> Can you believe this?
> [url]http://www.suntimes.com/output/business/cst-fin-auto08.html[/url][/color]

No. The CR reliability rating are poorly constructed and
provide little information of value if your goal is to
minimize cost of ownership and inconvenience. However, if
you are looking for something (over than personal
preference) to justify your purchasing choice, then they can
be useful. If you really value their ratings, it looks like
you need to head down to the Ford store and buy a 2004
Mustang. Got a great rating. And left over 2004's are really
cheap now.

Ed

"badgolferman" <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:xn0dzi86mr92279000@news.individual.net...[color=blue]
> Can you believe this?
> [url]http://www.suntimes.com/output/business/cst-fin-auto08.html[/url]
>
> --
> No matter what happens, someone will find a way to take it too
> seriously.[/color]

Toyota used to have bad reliability too. They turned it around nicely. Glad
to see others doing the same. This will force the U.S. makers to do a better
job. Glad that US cars are already better than the European ones!!

<DustyRhoades@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:422DC142.893D02DF@mailcity.com...[color=blue]
> Why would anybody believe CR? LOL
>
>
> mike hunt[/color]

CR buys cars with their own money, no advertising, and they survey thousands
of drivers. Also, CR is in line with what JDpower says. Unless you have a
conspiracy theory about that too.

The number of new vehicles sold in the US for the past ten years
has been between 14 and 16 million, every year. CR surveyed less
than 800,000 owners, not all of whom are original owners, that
subscribe to their magazine for that report. Well you do the
math.

As too surveys, in general, I have purchased a least one new
vehicle every year for at least the past twenty five years and I
have never been surveyed by anybody except the vehicle
manufacture.

As to buying their own vehicles, they buy ONE copy. Should
others assume the one CR bought to be indicative, good or bad, of
the one you happen to buy? I think not. CR says the mid size
Hyundai Sanota was the best car sold in 2004, do yo believe
that?

If one actually followed their reports over the years you would
discover that CR has often rated one over an other when in
reality they were the same car made on the same assembly line
with a different brand on the hood. check back and see how often
they have recommend vehicle that later turned out to be turkeys.
What CR reports is simply an opinion, no better or worse than
everybody else's opinion. ;)


mike hunt


"Dan J.S." wrote:[color=blue]
>
> <DustyRhoades@mailcity.com> wrote in message
> news:422DC142.893D02DF@mailcity.com...[color=green]
> > Why would anybody believe CR? LOL
> >
> >
> > mike hunt[/color]
>
> CR buys cars with their own money, no advertising, and they survey thousands
> of drivers. Also, CR is in line with what JDpower says. Unless you have a
> conspiracy theory about that too.[/color]

Now that Toyota is selling millions, rather than hundreds of
thousands of vehicles, their quality ratings are slipping as
well, according to J D Powers and CR if you believe that stuff..
Murphy's law I guess. ;)


mike hunt



"Dan J.S." wrote:[color=blue]
>
> "badgolferman" <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:xn0dzi86mr92279000@news.individual.net...[color=green]
> > Can you believe this?
> > [url]http://www.suntimes.com/output/business/cst-fin-auto08.html[/url]
> >
> > --
> > No matter what happens, someone will find a way to take it too
> > seriously.[/color]
>
> Toyota used to have bad reliability too. They turned it around nicely. Glad
> to see others doing the same. This will force the U.S. makers to do a better
> job. Glad that US cars are already better than the European ones!![/color]

<DustyRhoades@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:422E1CF8.3C8387EC@mailcity.com...[color=blue]
> The number of new vehicles sold in the US for the past ten years
> has been between 14 and 16 million, every year. CR surveyed less
> than 800,000 owners, not all of whom are original owners, that
> subscribe to their magazine for that report. Well you do the
> math.
>
> As too surveys, in general, I have purchased a least one new
> vehicle every year for at least the past twenty five years and I
> have never been surveyed by anybody except the vehicle
> manufacture.
>
> As to buying their own vehicles, they buy ONE copy. Should
> others assume the one CR bought to be indicative, good or bad, of
> the one you happen to buy? I think not. CR says the mid size
> Hyundai Sanota was the best car sold in 2004, do yo believe
> that?
>
> If one actually followed their reports over the years you would
> discover that CR has often rated one over an other when in
> reality they were the same car made on the same assembly line
> with a different brand on the hood. check back and see how often
> they have recommend vehicle that later turned out to be turkeys.
> What CR reports is simply an opinion, no better or worse than
> everybody else's opinion. ;)
>
>
> mike hunt[/color]


You do not need to survey everyone to get results within 4% of the real
results of the entire population. This was something proven by many
statisticians and mathematicians.

I would not buy a Hyundai, but I believe that they are getting better. There
are more and more people happy with them. It's car manufacturers like
Hyundai that are keeping pressure on Detroit to produce more quality
product, and by looking at latest jdpower research, it is working. I am now
considering a Ford F-150 truck. Something I would never even think about
(although I just read people dont park them in garages because of some weird
fire problem related to cruise control).

Do you have any clue as to how this report is created?

CR has a subscriber base. CR sends all subscribers a survey asking questions
about the cars those subscribers own. The subscribers answer a series of
questions relating to service requirements, fit and finish, that sort of
thing. Subscribers return the survey and CR tallies the answers. If there
were two subscribers with a new Hyundai Sonota, and they both said that they
needed no service, then the satisfaction rate would be 100%, and this could
propel that make and model to the top of the survey.

This is not a study of cars by CR, and what they rate cars on. This is a
completely different discussion, and I am not sure that I take CR's rating
with anything more than the perverbial grain of salt.

But the survey that was just released, the survey results came from people
just like you and me that subscribe to CR and also responded to the survey
questions. I would give this survey ample weight as I shopped for a new or
used car. It is especially useful to keep a couple of years of the survey on
hand. If you wanted to rate a 2001 Jeep Grand Cherokee, for example, you
could go back to the 2001 Survey results and see how owners liked it new,
then look at the subsequent surveys to see if they still felt the same
aftger a few years. You could look at today's survey to see how the current
owners like the vehicle, and if they find all of the areas to suck, then you
could take a second look at the vehicle before making your purchase.

The trouble with the survey is that you have no idea if the results come
from 10 subscribers or 1000, and this can change things alot.








"badgolferman" <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:xn0dzi86mr92279000@news.individual.net...[color=blue]
> Can you believe this?
> [url]http://www.suntimes.com/output/business/cst-fin-auto08.html[/url]
>
> --
> No matter what happens, someone will find a way to take it too
> seriously.[/color]

<DustyRhoades@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:422E1CF8.3C8387EC@mailcity.com...[color=blue]
> The number of new vehicles sold in the US for the past ten years
> has been between 14 and 16 million, every year. CR surveyed less
> than 800,000 owners, not all of whom are original owners, that
> subscribe to their magazine for that report. Well you do the
> math.
>[/color]

CR only surveys its subscriber base, that is why the number is so low.

I think it is important to note the the survey results are compiled from
reader's own experiences, not from the CR testing department.


[color=blue]
> As too surveys, in general, I have purchased a least one new
> vehicle every year for at least the past twenty five years and I
> have never been surveyed by anybody except the vehicle
> manufacture.
>
> As to buying their own vehicles, they buy ONE copy. Should
> others assume the one CR bought to be indicative, good or bad, of
> the one you happen to buy? I think not. CR says the mid size
> Hyundai Sanota was the best car sold in 2004, do yo believe
> that?
>[/color]

That one copy is not part of the survey that you distrust so much, that one
copy is used to publish the Road Test that is the subjective analysis of
test drivers and other staff members.

The only value of this testing is that the test drivers can say that the car
fits well, the knobs work good and the instruments are easy to read. The
test drivers seldom experience an A/C failure or serious transmission
repairs. But their input that a 6'1" driver won't fit in the car unless the
convertable roof is down is good input to people planning on buying the car,
and are over 6'1". Their subjective analysis of road and wind noise is also
valuable informatioin because they drive all of the cars that come out every
year, and they will know that the Matrix is noisy or not as compared to the
other offerings in the product class.


[color=blue]
> If one actually followed their reports over the years you would
> discover that CR has often rated one over an other when in
> reality they were the same car made on the same assembly line
> with a different brand on the hood. check back and see how often
> they have recommend vehicle that later turned out to be turkeys.
> What CR reports is simply an opinion, no better or worse than
> everybody else's opinion. ;)
>[/color]

This is true, and a relevant complaint. They also test a new car and give it
a thumbs-up, but the survey at the end of the year - this survey - has the
owner's experience completely opposite of the test mule. I think this survey
is much more useful as a guide than the test drive reports that come out
throughout the year.

What is so hard to believe. I know several people who own and have owned
them and they seem to be getting better all the time.

Leonard

"badgolferman" <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:xn0dzi86mr92279000@news.individual.net...[color=blue]
> Can you believe this?
> [url]http://www.suntimes.com/output/business/cst-fin-auto08.html[/url]
>
> --
> No matter what happens, someone will find a way to take it too
> seriously.[/color]

A friend of mine, after having 3 or 4 Corollas, bought a Subaru.

His comment is that he has had more trouble with the Subaru in less than 2
years than he did in 20 years of Corollas.

I still say, look at the blue book value in about 5 years old to see what
has the highest value. These are usually the best car

It is your money spend it were you wish. Personally I would not
buy an F150.


mike hunt


"Dan J.S." wrote:[color=blue]
>
> <DustyRhoades@mailcity.com> wrote in message
> news:422E1CF8.3C8387EC@mailcity.com...[color=green]
> > The number of new vehicles sold in the US for the past ten years
> > has been between 14 and 16 million, every year. CR surveyed less
> > than 800,000 owners, not all of whom are original owners, that
> > subscribe to their magazine for that report. Well you do the
> > math.
> >
> > As too surveys, in general, I have purchased a least one new
> > vehicle every year for at least the past twenty five years and I
> > have never been surveyed by anybody except the vehicle
> > manufacture.
> >
> > As to buying their own vehicles, they buy ONE copy. Should
> > others assume the one CR bought to be indicative, good or bad, of
> > the one you happen to buy? I think not. CR says the mid size
> > Hyundai Sanota was the best car sold in 2004, do yo believe
> > that?
> >
> > If one actually followed their reports over the years you would
> > discover that CR has often rated one over an other when in
> > reality they were the same car made on the same assembly line
> > with a different brand on the hood. check back and see how often
> > they have recommend vehicle that later turned out to be turkeys.
> > What CR reports is simply an opinion, no better or worse than
> > everybody else's opinion. ;)
> >
> >
> > mike hunt[/color]
>
> You do not need to survey everyone to get results within 4% of the real
> results of the entire population. This was something proven by many
> statisticians and mathematicians.
>
> I would not buy a Hyundai, but I believe that they are getting better. There
> are more and more people happy with them. It's car manufacturers like
> Hyundai that are keeping pressure on Detroit to produce more quality
> product, and by looking at latest jdpower research, it is working. I am now
> considering a Ford F-150 truck. Something I would never even think about
> (although I just read people dont park them in garages because of some weird
> fire problem related to cruise control).[/color]

How do you come to that conclusion? The vehicle sold today is
not the same as those sold five years ago.


mike hunt




ron wrote:[color=blue]
>
> A friend of mine, after having 3 or 4 Corollas, bought a Subaru.
>
> His comment is that he has had more trouble with the Subaru in less than 2
> years than he did in 20 years of Corollas.
>
> I still say, look at the blue book value in about 5 years old to see what
> has the highest value. These are usually the best car[/color]