Please advice: Planning to buy Camry tomorrow.

Guys,

After doing a lot of research with tons of dealers and websites
(including carsdirect.com), I got a Hayward, Sanfrancisco dealer to
quote me $17,000 for Camry LE with side air bags. I am hoping that it's
a good deal. I've been warned that those Autonation dealers are all
fraud and they really get their money back thru financing. I've heard
that they sometimes even fix damaged cars and sell them as new. Is that
really true? How can I tell if they fixed the odometer and cheated on
me?

I was thinking of signing up for financing and paying all the money off
right away. Will I be charged any penalty for paying the loan off too
early? Also, I hear that these scamsters make you sign the contract and
then add up bogus fees such as ad fees, doc. fees, junk add-on costs.
What should I tell the dealer to knock off those bogus fees?

If any of you experienced people have some suggestions, please share
with me and help me from getting ripped off :( 17k for a new Camry LE
'05 with side airbags seems too good to be true.

Thank you so much.
Shanker

On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 17:54:46 -0800, shanx wrote:
[color=blue]
> Guys,
>
> After doing a lot of research with tons of dealers and websites
> (including carsdirect.com), I got a Hayward, Sanfrancisco dealer to
> quote me $17,000 for Camry LE with side air bags. I am hoping that it's
> a good deal. I've been warned that those Autonation dealers are all
> fraud and they really get their money back thru financing. I've heard
> that they sometimes even fix damaged cars and sell them as new. Is that
> really true? How can I tell if they fixed the odometer and cheated on
> me?
>
> I was thinking of signing up for financing and paying all the money off
> right away. Will I be charged any penalty for paying the loan off too
> early? Also, I hear that these scamsters make you sign the contract and
> then add up bogus fees such as ad fees, doc. fees, junk add-on costs.
> What should I tell the dealer to knock off those bogus fees?
>
> If any of you experienced people have some suggestions, please share
> with me and help me from getting ripped off :( 17k for a new Camry LE
> '05 with side airbags seems too good to be true.
>
> Thank you so much.
> Shanker[/color]

THis seems like a real good deal.

As far as fixing damaged car, in order to sell it as New it has to have a
MFG's certificate of origin. No COO, no new car. So, if they are selling
them as new, they have to have the COO. The only way around this and not
getting it from a Toyota dealer? Stuff happens. Cars fall off trucks. They
get damaged in shipping. Almost EVERY SINGLE car gets damages in shipping!
(Except maybe Volvos and Mercedes. Ever see a shipment of either of these
cars? You won't! They're shipped by Swift Transport in enclosed trailers!)
So, ask to see the Certificate Of Origin. If they can't produce it, ask
why.

So, if they are selling damged cars, this is probably how they are
damaged. Now, to the extent of the damage. Here in Mass, if a car has a
Salvage title, I have to TELL you it has a salvage title. If it has a
Reconstructed title, I don't HAVE to tell you, but I will (My boss doesn't
like it; it rarely keeps me from making the sale!). Depending on where YOU
are more than where the dealer is determines what he needs to disclose.
ASK THEM if the car has been damaged, and the extent of the damage; or
take it to a body shop and have it looked at. There are tell-tale signs:
paint doesn't quite match, bubbles or dust in paint, rough spots, etc.
Take a small magnet wrapped in a tissue and go around the car. If there is
bondo, it may still stidk, but with less force.

It could just be they are trying to make their quota, too. March is a big
time for selling cars; I've sold half my lot already (um, we're pretty
small...) and two or three more possibles. Big dealers have to sell cars
at this time; it's counted on by the MFG's. They may be a little behind
and need to boost sales. Toyota used to be funny; I don't know if they
still are (RAY???). Let's say a dealer wanted Camrys, so he orders 15
Camrys. Toyota is overstocked with Corollas. They send the dealer 7 Camrys
and 10 Corollas. They tell the dealer if he wants the balalnce of the
Camrys, move the Corollas...NOW! So, the dealer will bend over backwards
to sell Corollas, but won't budge an inch on the Camrys, and may even
charge above sticker (A friend of mine at Toyota of Greenfield told me
this back in '87. We wanted a new Camry and wound up almost stealing a
Corolla!). Perhaps your dealer wants Avalons, and has to move Camrys to
get them.

Let me know what happens with this.

Wow. Thanks for the inside info. I didn't know that dealers would do
anything to sell off models that get overstocked. I found a post (don't
remember the link, but you can search for '2005 Camry pricing' in
Google newsgroups) where some guy bought a new Camry 2005 with manual
transmission for a measly 14,730 + taxes and the sticker price is 19K!

So I am going to walk in and ask for 16K. I'll keep you posted if I end
up buying it tomorrow. I'm rehearsing my dialogues now :)

-S

hachiroku wrote:[color=blue]
> On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 17:54:46 -0800, shanx wrote:
>[color=green]
> > Guys,
> >
> > After doing a lot of research with tons of dealers and websites
> > (including carsdirect.com), I got a Hayward, Sanfrancisco dealer to
> > quote me $17,000 for Camry LE with side air bags. I am hoping that[/color][/color]
it's[color=blue][color=green]
> > a good deal. I've been warned that those Autonation dealers are all
> > fraud and they really get their money back thru financing. I've[/color][/color]
heard[color=blue][color=green]
> > that they sometimes even fix damaged cars and sell them as new. Is[/color][/color]
that[color=blue][color=green]
> > really true? How can I tell if they fixed the odometer and cheated[/color][/color]
on[color=blue][color=green]
> > me?
> >
> > I was thinking of signing up for financing and paying all the money[/color][/color]
off[color=blue][color=green]
> > right away. Will I be charged any penalty for paying the loan off[/color][/color]
too[color=blue][color=green]
> > early? Also, I hear that these scamsters make you sign the contract[/color][/color]
and[color=blue][color=green]
> > then add up bogus fees such as ad fees, doc. fees, junk add-on[/color][/color]
costs.[color=blue][color=green]
> > What should I tell the dealer to knock off those bogus fees?
> >
> > If any of you experienced people have some suggestions, please[/color][/color]
share[color=blue][color=green]
> > with me and help me from getting ripped off :( 17k for a new Camry[/color][/color]
LE[color=blue][color=green]
> > '05 with side airbags seems too good to be true.
> >
> > Thank you so much.
> > Shanker[/color]
>
> THis seems like a real good deal.
>
> As far as fixing damaged car, in order to sell it as New it has to[/color]
have a[color=blue]
> MFG's certificate of origin. No COO, no new car. So, if they are[/color]
selling[color=blue]
> them as new, they have to have the COO. The only way around this and[/color]
not[color=blue]
> getting it from a Toyota dealer? Stuff happens. Cars fall off trucks.[/color]
They[color=blue]
> get damaged in shipping. Almost EVERY SINGLE car gets damages in[/color]
shipping![color=blue]
> (Except maybe Volvos and Mercedes. Ever see a shipment of either of[/color]
these[color=blue]
> cars? You won't! They're shipped by Swift Transport in enclosed[/color]
trailers!)[color=blue]
> So, ask to see the Certificate Of Origin. If they can't produce it,[/color]
ask[color=blue]
> why.
>
> So, if they are selling damged cars, this is probably how they are
> damaged. Now, to the extent of the damage. Here in Mass, if a car has[/color]
a[color=blue]
> Salvage title, I have to TELL you it has a salvage title. If it has a
> Reconstructed title, I don't HAVE to tell you, but I will (My boss[/color]
doesn't[color=blue]
> like it; it rarely keeps me from making the sale!). Depending on[/color]
where YOU[color=blue]
> are more than where the dealer is determines what he needs to[/color]
disclose.[color=blue]
> ASK THEM if the car has been damaged, and the extent of the damage;[/color]
or[color=blue]
> take it to a body shop and have it looked at. There are tell-tale[/color]
signs:[color=blue]
> paint doesn't quite match, bubbles or dust in paint, rough spots,[/color]
etc.[color=blue]
> Take a small magnet wrapped in a tissue and go around the car. If[/color]
there is[color=blue]
> bondo, it may still stidk, but with less force.
>
> It could just be they are trying to make their quota, too. March is a[/color]
big[color=blue]
> time for selling cars; I've sold half my lot already (um, we're[/color]
pretty[color=blue]
> small...) and two or three more possibles. Big dealers have to sell[/color]
cars[color=blue]
> at this time; it's counted on by the MFG's. They may be a little[/color]
behind[color=blue]
> and need to boost sales. Toyota used to be funny; I don't know if[/color]
they[color=blue]
> still are (RAY???). Let's say a dealer wanted Camrys, so he orders 15
> Camrys. Toyota is overstocked with Corollas. They send the dealer 7[/color]
Camrys[color=blue]
> and 10 Corollas. They tell the dealer if he wants the balalnce of the
> Camrys, move the Corollas...NOW! So, the dealer will bend over[/color]
backwards[color=blue]
> to sell Corollas, but won't budge an inch on the Camrys, and may even
> charge above sticker (A friend of mine at Toyota of Greenfield told[/color]
me[color=blue]
> this back in '87. We wanted a new Camry and wound up almost stealing[/color]
a[color=blue]
> Corolla!). Perhaps your dealer wants Avalons, and has to move Camrys[/color]
to[color=blue]
> get them.
>
> Let me know what happens with this.[/color]

On 11 Mar 2005 17:54:46 -0800, "shanx" <shanker.neelakantan@gmail.com>
wrote:
[color=blue]
>Guys,
>
>After doing a lot of research with tons of dealers and websites
>(including carsdirect.com), I got a Hayward, Sanfrancisco dealer to
>quote me $17,000 for Camry LE with side air bags. I am hoping that it's
>a good deal. I've been warned that those Autonation dealers are all
>fraud and they really get their money back thru financing. I've heard
>that they sometimes even fix damaged cars and sell them as new. Is that
>really true? How can I tell if they fixed the odometer and cheated on
>me?[/color]

Like Hachi said, if they don't have the right paperwork they can't
sell used as new. If in doubt, take the car to a neutral local
mechanic for an impartial inspection - if there is anything odd with
the car a trained eye will pick it up where you probably wouldn't.
[color=blue]
>I was thinking of signing up for financing and paying all the money off
>right away. Will I be charged any penalty for paying the loan off too
>early? Also, I hear that these scamsters make you sign the contract and
>then add up bogus fees such as ad fees, doc. fees, junk add-on costs.
>What should I tell the dealer to knock off those bogus fees?[/color]

First, ask if that quote was the "Out The Door" price (using that
exact term) - I.E. if you cut them a check for exactly $17,000 they'll
hand you the keys. If that's the "Sale Price" and not the "Out The
Door" price, they have lots of room to add bogus fees and get extra
profit from you once they get you in the Back Room to sign the papers.

Paint Protection, Upholstery Protection, Body Side Molding, upgraded
stereos, floor mats, undercoating, extended warranties... Just say NO,
you want none of that. It's all mostly pure profit.

They can add junk fees to the paperwork numbers if they want (within
reason) as long as they subtract them from the "Sale Price" so it adds
up to the $17,000 "Out The Door" price.

Yes, they make a lot of money from the dealer financing, because
they get a percentage back from the finance company. And yes, there's
usually a pre-payment clause ("Rule Of Seven"?) that makes you pay a
BIG chunk of interest for paying down the loan immediately - the
second you sign the loan paperwork there's a minimum cost to get out
of the loan early, even on the next business day. My dad got burned
by that once - and badly, it was on a motorhome...

If you are going to finance elsewhere, don't sign paper one about a
loan at the dealer and then talk to your bank, go see your bank or
credit union /first/ and get pre-approved before you go back to the
dealer. But don't walk in to the dealer and volunteer the info that
you are financing elsewhere until AFTER you come to an agreement on an
"Out The Door" price. They might be cutting the car price lower
figuring they'll make it all back from you with the financing.

If pressed, /after/ you agree on the OTD Price tell them you'll
finance there IF they can give you better deal. Unless it's a
Manufacturer backed 0% financing deal, they probably can't.

And work out the trade-in value of your old car after you agree on
the price of the new car, don't even talk trade yet - same reason,
that's another place to play with the numbers, inflate the new car
price to cover the inflated trade-in value. You are often better off
selling your old car yourself privately than taking their realistic
wholesale offer - but not always...
[color=blue]
>If any of you experienced people have some suggestions, please share
>with me and help me from getting ripped off :( 17k for a new Camry LE
>'05 with side airbags seems too good to be true.[/color]

Car buyers get ripped off all the time because you only buy a new
car once every 5 or 10 years, while that dealership might sell 3, 5,
10, 20 cars a day. They get a lot more practice at making the numbers
fall where they want them than you do. Like Las Vegas, the game of
car selling is rigged for the house to have the odds.

If you sense them doing something shady, get up and walk out. You
are the buyer and no matter how intimidated you may feel you still
have the ultimate power, that of taking your business elsewhere.

There is more than one new Camry out there. They're like city
buses, if you miss this one, there will be another one along in 15
minutes. And they can only rip you off if you LET them.

--<< Bruce >>--
--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

Don't spend a lot of time rehersing your dialog. Remember, the guy you are
worried about convincing probably was cooking french fries at
Arbie's before he got on with that fancy Toyota dealer.
jor[color=blue]
>[/color]
"shanx" <shanker.neelakantan@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1110597906.083124.90880@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
>
> Wow. Thanks for the inside info. I didn't know that dealers would do
> anything to sell off models that get overstocked. I found a post (don't
> remember the link, but you can search for '2005 Camry pricing' in
> Google newsgroups) where some guy bought a new Camry 2005 with manual
> transmission for a measly 14,730 + taxes and the sticker price is 19K!
>
> So I am going to walk in and ask for 16K. I'll keep you posted if I end
> up buying it tomorrow. I'm rehearsing my dialogues now :)
>
> -S
>
> hachiroku wrote:[color=green]
>> On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 17:54:46 -0800, shanx wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>> > Guys,
>> >
>> > After doing a lot of research with tons of dealers and websites
>> > (including carsdirect.com), I got a Hayward, Sanfrancisco dealer to
>> > quote me $17,000 for Camry LE with side air bags. I am hoping that[/color][/color]
> it's[color=green][color=darkred]
>> > a good deal. I've been warned that those Autonation dealers are all
>> > fraud and they really get their money back thru financing. I've[/color][/color]
> heard[color=green][color=darkred]
>> > that they sometimes even fix damaged cars and sell them as new. Is[/color][/color]
> that[color=green][color=darkred]
>> > really true? How can I tell if they fixed the odometer and cheated[/color][/color]
> on[color=green][color=darkred]
>> > me?
>> >
>> > I was thinking of signing up for financing and paying all the money[/color][/color]
> off[color=green][color=darkred]
>> > right away. Will I be charged any penalty for paying the loan off[/color][/color]
> too[color=green][color=darkred]
>> > early? Also, I hear that these scamsters make you sign the contract[/color][/color]
> and[color=green][color=darkred]
>> > then add up bogus fees such as ad fees, doc. fees, junk add-on[/color][/color]
> costs.[color=green][color=darkred]
>> > What should I tell the dealer to knock off those bogus fees?
>> >
>> > If any of you experienced people have some suggestions, please[/color][/color]
> share[color=green][color=darkred]
>> > with me and help me from getting ripped off :( 17k for a new Camry[/color][/color]
> LE[color=green][color=darkred]
>> > '05 with side airbags seems too good to be true.
>> >
>> > Thank you so much.
>> > Shanker[/color]
>>
>> THis seems like a real good deal.
>>
>> As far as fixing damaged car, in order to sell it as New it has to[/color]
> have a[color=green]
>> MFG's certificate of origin. No COO, no new car. So, if they are[/color]
> selling[color=green]
>> them as new, they have to have the COO. The only way around this and[/color]
> not[color=green]
>> getting it from a Toyota dealer? Stuff happens. Cars fall off trucks.[/color]
> They[color=green]
>> get damaged in shipping. Almost EVERY SINGLE car gets damages in[/color]
> shipping![color=green]
>> (Except maybe Volvos and Mercedes. Ever see a shipment of either of[/color]
> these[color=green]
>> cars? You won't! They're shipped by Swift Transport in enclosed[/color]
> trailers!)[color=green]
>> So, ask to see the Certificate Of Origin. If they can't produce it,[/color]
> ask[color=green]
>> why.
>>
>> So, if they are selling damged cars, this is probably how they are
>> damaged. Now, to the extent of the damage. Here in Mass, if a car has[/color]
> a[color=green]
>> Salvage title, I have to TELL you it has a salvage title. If it has a
>> Reconstructed title, I don't HAVE to tell you, but I will (My boss[/color]
> doesn't[color=green]
>> like it; it rarely keeps me from making the sale!). Depending on[/color]
> where YOU[color=green]
>> are more than where the dealer is determines what he needs to[/color]
> disclose.[color=green]
>> ASK THEM if the car has been damaged, and the extent of the damage;[/color]
> or[color=green]
>> take it to a body shop and have it looked at. There are tell-tale[/color]
> signs:[color=green]
>> paint doesn't quite match, bubbles or dust in paint, rough spots,[/color]
> etc.[color=green]
>> Take a small magnet wrapped in a tissue and go around the car. If[/color]
> there is[color=green]
>> bondo, it may still stidk, but with less force.
>>
>> It could just be they are trying to make their quota, too. March is a[/color]
> big[color=green]
>> time for selling cars; I've sold half my lot already (um, we're[/color]
> pretty[color=green]
>> small...) and two or three more possibles. Big dealers have to sell[/color]
> cars[color=green]
>> at this time; it's counted on by the MFG's. They may be a little[/color]
> behind[color=green]
>> and need to boost sales. Toyota used to be funny; I don't know if[/color]
> they[color=green]
>> still are (RAY???). Let's say a dealer wanted Camrys, so he orders 15
>> Camrys. Toyota is overstocked with Corollas. They send the dealer 7[/color]
> Camrys[color=green]
>> and 10 Corollas. They tell the dealer if he wants the balalnce of the
>> Camrys, move the Corollas...NOW! So, the dealer will bend over[/color]
> backwards[color=green]
>> to sell Corollas, but won't budge an inch on the Camrys, and may even
>> charge above sticker (A friend of mine at Toyota of Greenfield told[/color]
> me[color=green]
>> this back in '87. We wanted a new Camry and wound up almost stealing[/color]
> a[color=green]
>> Corolla!). Perhaps your dealer wants Avalons, and has to move Camrys[/color]
> to[color=green]
>> get them.
>>
>> Let me know what happens with this.[/color]
>[/color]

Thanks for all this input guys. I won't sign up for financing and pay
it off right away if I'll end up paying a BIG prepayment interest
amount. These car dealers have a backdoor escape route for all our
tricks. Lets see what happens today as I get ready to make my first 5
figure purchase in 5 years.

-S

17K seems like a real good deal , I'm sure that's not the "out the door"
price , I would bet that you'll have to add state sales tax to that figure.
However , If you're OTD at about 18K to 18.5K I think you're doing real
well .

-Dana
"Bruce L. Bergman" <blPYTHONbergman@earthlink.invalid> wrote in message
news:eiv4315frmrecgk2d62jiefr5648m7da88@4ax.com...[color=blue]
> On 11 Mar 2005 17:54:46 -0800, "shanx" <shanker.neelakantan@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>[color=green]
>>Guys,
>>
>>After doing a lot of research with tons of dealers and websites
>>(including carsdirect.com), I got a Hayward, Sanfrancisco dealer to
>>quote me $17,000 for Camry LE with side air bags. I am hoping that it's
>>a good deal. I've been warned that those Autonation dealers are all
>>fraud and they really get their money back thru financing. I've heard
>>that they sometimes even fix damaged cars and sell them as new. Is that
>>really true? How can I tell if they fixed the odometer and cheated on
>>me?[/color]
>
> Like Hachi said, if they don't have the right paperwork they can't
> sell used as new. If in doubt, take the car to a neutral local
> mechanic for an impartial inspection - if there is anything odd with
> the car a trained eye will pick it up where you probably wouldn't.
>[color=green]
>>I was thinking of signing up for financing and paying all the money off
>>right away. Will I be charged any penalty for paying the loan off too
>>early? Also, I hear that these scamsters make you sign the contract and
>>then add up bogus fees such as ad fees, doc. fees, junk add-on costs.
>>What should I tell the dealer to knock off those bogus fees?[/color]
>
> First, ask if that quote was the "Out The Door" price (using that
> exact term) - I.E. if you cut them a check for exactly $17,000 they'll
> hand you the keys. If that's the "Sale Price" and not the "Out The
> Door" price, they have lots of room to add bogus fees and get extra
> profit from you once they get you in the Back Room to sign the papers.
>
> Paint Protection, Upholstery Protection, Body Side Molding, upgraded
> stereos, floor mats, undercoating, extended warranties... Just say NO,
> you want none of that. It's all mostly pure profit.
>
> They can add junk fees to the paperwork numbers if they want (within
> reason) as long as they subtract them from the "Sale Price" so it adds
> up to the $17,000 "Out The Door" price.
>
> Yes, they make a lot of money from the dealer financing, because
> they get a percentage back from the finance company. And yes, there's
> usually a pre-payment clause ("Rule Of Seven"?) that makes you pay a
> BIG chunk of interest for paying down the loan immediately - the
> second you sign the loan paperwork there's a minimum cost to get out
> of the loan early, even on the next business day. My dad got burned
> by that once - and badly, it was on a motorhome...
>
> If you are going to finance elsewhere, don't sign paper one about a
> loan at the dealer and then talk to your bank, go see your bank or
> credit union /first/ and get pre-approved before you go back to the
> dealer. But don't walk in to the dealer and volunteer the info that
> you are financing elsewhere until AFTER you come to an agreement on an
> "Out The Door" price. They might be cutting the car price lower
> figuring they'll make it all back from you with the financing.
>
> If pressed, /after/ you agree on the OTD Price tell them you'll
> finance there IF they can give you better deal. Unless it's a
> Manufacturer backed 0% financing deal, they probably can't.
>
> And work out the trade-in value of your old car after you agree on
> the price of the new car, don't even talk trade yet - same reason,
> that's another place to play with the numbers, inflate the new car
> price to cover the inflated trade-in value. You are often better off
> selling your old car yourself privately than taking their realistic
> wholesale offer - but not always...
>[color=green]
>>If any of you experienced people have some suggestions, please share
>>with me and help me from getting ripped off :( 17k for a new Camry LE
>>'05 with side airbags seems too good to be true.[/color]
>
> Car buyers get ripped off all the time because you only buy a new
> car once every 5 or 10 years, while that dealership might sell 3, 5,
> 10, 20 cars a day. They get a lot more practice at making the numbers
> fall where they want them than you do. Like Las Vegas, the game of
> car selling is rigged for the house to have the odds.
>
> If you sense them doing something shady, get up and walk out. You
> are the buyer and no matter how intimidated you may feel you still
> have the ultimate power, that of taking your business elsewhere.
>
> There is more than one new Camry out there. They're like city
> buses, if you miss this one, there will be another one along in 15
> minutes. And they can only rip you off if you LET them.
>
> --<< Bruce >>--
> --
> Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
> Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
> 5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
> Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.[/color]

shanx wrote:[color=blue]
> Guys,
>
> After doing a lot of research with tons of dealers and websites
> (including carsdirect.com), I got a Hayward, Sanfrancisco dealer to
> quote me $17,000 for Camry LE with side air bags. I am hoping that[/color]
it's[color=blue]
> a good deal. I've been warned that those Autonation dealers are all
> fraud and they really get their money back thru financing. I've heard
> that they sometimes even fix damaged cars and sell them as new. Is[/color]
that[color=blue]
> really true? How can I tell if they fixed the odometer and cheated on
> me?
>
> I was thinking of signing up for financing and paying all the money[/color]
off[color=blue]
> right away. Will I be charged any penalty for paying the loan off too
> early? Also, I hear that these scamsters make you sign the contract[/color]
and[color=blue]
> then add up bogus fees such as ad fees, doc. fees, junk add-on costs.
> What should I tell the dealer to knock off those bogus fees?
>
> If any of you experienced people have some suggestions, please share
> with me and help me from getting ripped off :( 17k for a new Camry LE
> '05 with side airbags seems too good to be true.
>
> Thank you so much.
> Shanker[/color]

Camry is a very reliable car

I'd definately recommend the 4 with stick or the v6,
though. The automatic 4 is very Corolla-ish in
terms of power - not really adequate for such a
large car.

You would think that a 4 cylinder with automatic is not adequate for a
Camry, but there are more of these cars on the road then any thing else.

"Joseph Oberlander" <josephoberlander@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:gMRYd.8982$cN6.3458@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...[color=blue]
> I'd definately recommend the 4 with stick or the v6,
> though. The automatic 4 is very Corolla-ish in
> terms of power - not really adequate for such a
> large car.
>[/color]

I have an 05 Camry LE with the 4 CYL automatic and there's no doubt it's
PERFECTLY adequate in terms of power. I've drove the car 95 to 100 mph for
long peroids of time with NO problems what so ever. Pick up from stop lights
is fine too

The four seems to work fine as long as you do not want to get up
to speed very quickly or do not need clime steep grades.


mike hunt

[email]richard48@webtv.net[/email] wrote:[color=blue]
>
> You would think that a 4 cylinder with automatic is not adequate for a
> Camry, but there are more of these cars on the road then any thing else.[/color]

[email]richard48@webtv.net[/email] wrote:[color=blue]
> You would think that a 4 cylinder with automatic is not adequate for a
> Camry, but there are more of these cars on the road then any thing else.[/color]

That's neither here nor there. Lots of people buy Cavaliers and
Echos too, but they are also underpowered. The 4 with automatic
drives too much like an economy car for my liking.

<MikeHunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:4234DF49.D10BE37C@mailcity.com...[color=blue]
> The four seems to work fine as long as you do not want to get up
> to speed very quickly or do not need clime steep grades.
>
>
> mike hunt[/color]

IIRC from when I lived in the SF Bay area, there were quite a few steep
grades there!
--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply

I was referring to pulling grades at highway speeds, at the
limits of the available torque, not running on lower gears. One
can easily pull a grade but who wants to run in a lower gear all
the time to do so, and use more fuel?


mike hunt



Ray O wrote:[color=blue]
>
> <MikeHunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
> news:4234DF49.D10BE37C@mailcity.com...[color=green]
> > The four seems to work fine as long as you do not want to get up
> > to speed very quickly or do not need clime steep grades.
> >
> >
> > mike hunt[/color]
>
> IIRC from when I lived in the SF Bay area, there were quite a few steep
> grades there!
> --
> Ray O
> correct the return address punctuation to reply[/color]