OT/ON Topic? Grand Voyaher problem

Hey guys (and gals...)
I posted this in the Dodge forum, but there doesn't seem to be a
response. Since we have a bunch of bright, inquisitive people here who may
have had an issue with this (ART!!!) I'll post it here. Maybe someone has
seen this problem and knows a quick fix:


Another engineer I'd like to punch in the nose, but that's for another
thread:

1992 Plym Grand Voyager: this morning in a raging snowstorm the pass
side windshied wiper stopped working. It appeared as though (from the
sound) the linkage came undone. I removed the cowling, etc and found
that was just what happened. The assembly is the wiper, a thing that
looks like a knob with a shaft on it, and the end of the shaft is
knurled. There was also a spring washer resting under the whole mess in
the cowling.

I pressed it all back together using two blocks of wood. The way it
went together I didn't think it was ever coming apart again. It lasted
all of 27 minutes.

What is supposed to attach to the bottom of the splined shaft? is there
a screw or clip I'm missing, or is it perhaps just worn to the point
where it doesn't hold anymore?

TIA

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 05:05:31 GMT, hachiroku <levin@ae86.gts> wrote:
[color=blue]
>Hey guys (and gals...)
>I posted this in the Dodge forum, but there doesn't seem to be a
>response. Since we have a bunch of bright, inquisitive people here who may
>have had an issue with this (ART!!!) I'll post it here. Maybe someone has
>seen this problem and knows a quick fix:
>
>
>Another engineer I'd like to punch in the nose, but that's for another
>thread:
>
>1992 Plym Grand Voyager: this morning in a raging snowstorm the pass
>side windshied wiper stopped working. It appeared as though (from the
>sound) the linkage came undone. I removed the cowling, etc and found
>that was just what happened. The assembly is the wiper, a thing that
>looks like a knob with a shaft on it, and the end of the shaft is
>knurled. There was also a spring washer resting under the whole mess in
>the cowling.
>
>I pressed it all back together using two blocks of wood. The way it
>went together I didn't think it was ever coming apart again. It lasted
>all of 27 minutes.
>
>What is supposed to attach to the bottom of the splined shaft? is there
>a screw or clip I'm missing, or is it perhaps just worn to the point
>where it doesn't hold anymore?[/color]

I'd have to look at the car to give you a definitive answer, one
clue I can offer is to look and see how the pivot joint is assembled
on the other side of your car. You know, the side that hasn't broken
yet. ;-)

But car manufacturers do stupid shit all the time - like trusting a
splined shaft with a simple interference press fit into a hole on the
stamped sheetmetal crank arm to last forever...

If there is a slot on the backside of the pivot 'knob' they could
have used a C circlip or speed-nut as a retainer, and it broke.

You may have to engineer your own permanent fix, which could range
from cross-drilling the shaft for a cotter pin or wire, or threading
the back of the shaft and putting a nut on, welding or heat to red and
peen over the back of the shaft like a rivet (if both parts are
steel), or epoxy...

Wiper linkages are tricky. If you take it apart, take pictures and
draw match-lines everywhere, so you can get it back together correctly
the first time.

And most car makers use the exact same electric wiper motor for all
the cars they make for several years range, and anything from the
junkyard will do. What determines the stop position and wiper throw
is the motor crank arm and the double-D punched hole for the motor
shaft - save yours or get one from an exact match junk car.

--<< Bruce >>--
--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

Did you try the Chrysler forum? There is a lot of action there though not
all of it is helpful.

rec.autos.makers.chrysler



"hachiroku" <levin@ae86.gts> wrote in message
news:vSPYd.1242$jt6.117@trndny07...[color=blue]
> Hey guys (and gals...)
> I posted this in the Dodge forum, but there doesn't seem to be a
> response. Since we have a bunch of bright, inquisitive people here who may
> have had an issue with this (ART!!!) I'll post it here. Maybe someone has
> seen this problem and knows a quick fix:
>
>
> Another engineer I'd like to punch in the nose, but that's for another
> thread:
>
> 1992 Plym Grand Voyager: this morning in a raging snowstorm the pass
> side windshied wiper stopped working. It appeared as though (from the
> sound) the linkage came undone. I removed the cowling, etc and found
> that was just what happened. The assembly is the wiper, a thing that
> looks like a knob with a shaft on it, and the end of the shaft is
> knurled. There was also a spring washer resting under the whole mess in
> the cowling.
>
> I pressed it all back together using two blocks of wood. The way it
> went together I didn't think it was ever coming apart again. It lasted
> all of 27 minutes.
>
> What is supposed to attach to the bottom of the splined shaft? is there
> a screw or clip I'm missing, or is it perhaps just worn to the point
> where it doesn't hold anymore?
>
> TIA[/color]

hachiroku wrote:[color=blue]
> I posted this in the Dodge forum, but there doesn't seem to be a
> response. Since we have a bunch of bright, inquisitive people here
> who may have had an issue with this (ART!!!) I'll post it here. Maybe
> someone has seen this problem and knows a quick fix:[/color]

Quick fix? Trade in the POS on a Sienna.

Bruce L. Bergman wrote:
[color=blue]
> On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 05:05:31 GMT, hachiroku <levin@ae86.gts> wrote:
>
>[color=green]
>>Hey guys (and gals...)
>>I posted this in the Dodge forum, but there doesn't seem to be a
>>response. Since we have a bunch of bright, inquisitive people here who may
>>have had an issue with this (ART!!!) I'll post it here. Maybe someone has
>>seen this problem and knows a quick fix:
>>
>>
>>Another engineer I'd like to punch in the nose, but that's for another
>>thread:
>>
>>1992 Plym Grand Voyager: this morning in a raging snowstorm the pass
>>side windshied wiper stopped working. It appeared as though (from the
>>sound) the linkage came undone. I removed the cowling, etc and found
>>that was just what happened. The assembly is the wiper, a thing that
>>looks like a knob with a shaft on it, and the end of the shaft is
>>knurled. There was also a spring washer resting under the whole mess in
>>the cowling.
>>
>>I pressed it all back together using two blocks of wood. The way it
>>went together I didn't think it was ever coming apart again. It lasted
>>all of 27 minutes.
>>
>>What is supposed to attach to the bottom of the splined shaft? is there
>>a screw or clip I'm missing, or is it perhaps just worn to the point
>>where it doesn't hold anymore?
>>[/color]
>
> I'd have to look at the car to give you a definitive answer, one
> clue I can offer is to look and see how the pivot joint is assembled
> on the other side of your car. You know, the side that hasn't broken
> yet. ;-)[/color]


You must have owned a Chrysler product - because of the way you said
"the side that hasn't broken - yet". This implies that will break . . .

[color=blue]
>
> But car manufacturers do stupid shit all the time - like trusting a
> splined shaft with a simple interference press fit into a hole on the
> stamped sheetmetal crank arm to last forever...
>
> If there is a slot on the backside of the pivot 'knob' they could
> have used a C circlip or speed-nut as a retainer, and it broke.
>
> You may have to engineer your own permanent fix, which could range
> from cross-drilling the shaft for a cotter pin or wire, or threading
> the back of the shaft and putting a nut on, welding or heat to red and
> peen over the back of the shaft like a rivet (if both parts are
> steel), or epoxy...
>
> Wiper linkages are tricky. If you take it apart, take pictures and
> draw match-lines everywhere, so you can get it back together correctly
> the first time.
>
> And most car makers use the exact same electric wiper motor for all
> the cars they make for several years range, and anything from the
> junkyard will do. What determines the stop position and wiper throw
> is the motor crank arm and the double-D punched hole for the motor
> shaft - save yours or get one from an exact match junk car.
>
> --<< Bruce >>--
>[/color]

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 14:02:19 -0500, ma_twain <ma_twain@yahoo.com>
wrote:[color=blue]
>Bruce L. Bergman wrote:[/color]
[color=blue][color=green]
>> I'd have to look at the car to give you a definitive answer, one
>> clue I can offer is to look and see how the pivot joint is assembled
>> on the other side of your car. You know, the side that hasn't broken
>> yet. ;-)[/color]
>
>You must have owned a Chrysler product - because of the way you said
>"the side that hasn't broken - yet". This implies that will break . . .[/color]

No, it only implies that if they did a for-shit job on one side,
they probably did the same thing on both sides. When you figure out a
fix for the botched design, fix them both - or you'll just have to
take it apart again next year...

I haven't had the linkage break, but I've changed out several CryCo
wiper motors over the years. Last on the old Work Truck, 92 Dodge in
about 98, a motor that shouldn't have gone bad that soon.

--<< Bruce >>--


--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

Bruce L. Bergman wrote:[color=blue]
> I haven't had the linkage break, but I've changed out several CryCo
> wiper motors over the years. Last on the old Work Truck, 92 Dodge in
> about 98, a motor that shouldn't have gone bad that soon.[/color]

And some people still wonder why Toyota keeps gaining market share.....

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 19:00:10 +0000, Travis Jordan wrote:
[color=blue]
> hachiroku wrote:[color=green]
>> I posted this in the Dodge forum, but there doesn't seem to be a
>> response. Since we have a bunch of bright, inquisitive people here
>> who may have had an issue with this (ART!!!) I'll post it here. Maybe
>> someone has seen this problem and knows a quick fix:[/color]
>
> Quick fix? Trade in the POS on a Sienna.[/color]

Aw, c'mon! It was a whole $150, it runs, has 4WD and is a winter
beater/band equip hauler. Ticks like a time bomb, but it runs.

Before I bought it a guy came in and asked if I wanted to buy an '87 Toy
van w/4WD and a 5 speed. He came back about 3 weeks later, I drove it, it
ran fine, told him to come back in 2 weeks and I'd have the cash for it
($600). Never came back...so, a guy wanted to trade the Voyager for an
Explorer, I gave him $150 and away we went!

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 16:22:05 +0000, Art wrote:
[color=blue]
> Did you try the Chrysler forum? There is a lot of action there though not
> all of it is helpful.[/color]

No, that I didn't. Still no reply in the Dodge forum...
[color=blue]
>
> rec.autos.makers.chrysler
>
>
>
> "hachiroku" <levin@ae86.gts> wrote in message
> news:vSPYd.1242$jt6.117@trndny07...[color=green]
>> Hey guys (and gals...)
>> I posted this in the Dodge forum, but there doesn't seem to be a
>> response. Since we have a bunch of bright, inquisitive people here who may
>> have had an issue with this (ART!!!) I'll post it here. Maybe someone has
>> seen this problem and knows a quick fix:
>>
>>
>> Another engineer I'd like to punch in the nose, but that's for another
>> thread:
>>
>> 1992 Plym Grand Voyager: this morning in a raging snowstorm the pass
>> side windshied wiper stopped working. It appeared as though (from the
>> sound) the linkage came undone. I removed the cowling, etc and found
>> that was just what happened. The assembly is the wiper, a thing that
>> looks like a knob with a shaft on it, and the end of the shaft is
>> knurled. There was also a spring washer resting under the whole mess in
>> the cowling.
>>
>> I pressed it all back together using two blocks of wood. The way it
>> went together I didn't think it was ever coming apart again. It lasted
>> all of 27 minutes.
>>
>> What is supposed to attach to the bottom of the splined shaft? is there
>> a screw or clip I'm missing, or is it perhaps just worn to the point
>> where it doesn't hold anymore?
>>
>> TIA[/color][/color]

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 16:17:06 +0000, Bruce L. Bergman wrote:
[color=blue]
> On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 05:05:31 GMT, hachiroku <levin@ae86.gts> wrote:
>[color=green]
>>Hey guys (and gals...)
>>I posted this in the Dodge forum, but there doesn't seem to be a
>>response. Since we have a bunch of bright, inquisitive people here who may
>>have had an issue with this (ART!!!) I'll post it here. Maybe someone has
>>seen this problem and knows a quick fix:
>>
>>
>>Another engineer I'd like to punch in the nose, but that's for another
>>thread:
>>
>>1992 Plym Grand Voyager: this morning in a raging snowstorm the pass
>>side windshied wiper stopped working. It appeared as though (from the
>>sound) the linkage came undone. I removed the cowling, etc and found
>>that was just what happened. The assembly is the wiper, a thing that
>>looks like a knob with a shaft on it, and the end of the shaft is
>>knurled. There was also a spring washer resting under the whole mess in
>>the cowling.
>>
>>I pressed it all back together using two blocks of wood. The way it
>>went together I didn't think it was ever coming apart again. It lasted
>>all of 27 minutes.
>>
>>What is supposed to attach to the bottom of the splined shaft? is there
>>a screw or clip I'm missing, or is it perhaps just worn to the point
>>where it doesn't hold anymore?[/color]
>
> I'd have to look at the car to give you a definitive answer, one
> clue I can offer is to look and see how the pivot joint is assembled
> on the other side of your car. You know, the side that hasn't broken
> yet. ;-)[/color]


Yeah! If I could SEE it! It's buried under sheet metal, with an approx 3"
access hole to get to it. At least the side that broke has a 4" access
hole! I still cut the hell outta my hand! I guess I need something like a
dentists' mirror to look at the good one.
[color=blue]
>
> But car manufacturers do stupid shit all the time - like trusting a
> splined shaft with a simple interference press fit into a hole on the
> stamped sheetmetal crank arm to last forever...
>
> If there is a slot on the backside of the pivot 'knob' they could
> have used a C circlip or speed-nut as a retainer, and it broke.[/color]

There is a slot...at the TOP of the splined area! Only thing I can think
is there's some kind of clip that encompasses the entire mess...
[color=blue]
>
> You may have to engineer your own permanent fix, which could range
> from cross-drilling the shaft for a cotter pin or wire, or threading
> the back of the shaft and putting a nut on, welding or heat to red and
> peen over the back of the shaft like a rivet (if both parts are
> steel), or epoxy...[/color]

Except for the Epoxy, I guess we think alike.
[color=blue]
>
> Wiper linkages are tricky. If you take it apart, take pictures and
> draw match-lines everywhere, so you can get it back together correctly
> the first time.
>
> And most car makers use the exact same electric wiper motor for all
> the cars they make for several years range, and anything from the
> junkyard will do. What determines the stop position and wiper throw
> is the motor crank arm and the double-D punched hole for the motor
> shaft - save yours or get one from an exact match junk car.
>
> --<< Bruce >>--[/color]


Yeah, my next step if I can't figure something out is to go dumpster
diving. I may try slotting it myself and using a circlip (otherwise known
as Jesus clips...)

OK, why is it called a Jesus clip?

hachiroku wrote:[color=blue]
> Aw, c'mon! It was a whole $150, it runs, has 4WD and is a winter
> beater/band equip hauler. Ticks like a time bomb, but it runs.[/color]

Well, I guess that's OK then <grin>. Just don't spend any real money on
it. I like the epoxy idea.

hachiroku wrote:
[color=blue]
> On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 16:22:05 +0000, Art wrote:
>
>[color=green]
>>Did you try the Chrysler forum? There is a lot of action there though not
>>all of it is helpful.
>>[/color]
>
> No, that I didn't. Still no reply in the Dodge forum...
>[/color]

What to they talk about on the Dodge forum? Not politics I hope :-)
Obivously, you have gotten more responses from the Toyota forum, despite
all of the political and nerd posting.

[color=blue]
>[color=green]
>>rec.autos.makers.chrysler
>>
>>
>>
>>"hachiroku" <levin@ae86.gts> wrote in message
>>news:vSPYd.1242$jt6.117@trndny07...
>>[color=darkred]
>>>Hey guys (and gals...)
>>>I posted this in the Dodge forum, but there doesn't seem to be a
>>>response. Since we have a bunch of bright, inquisitive people here who may
>>>have had an issue with this (ART!!!) I'll post it here. Maybe someone has
>>>seen this problem and knows a quick fix:
>>>
>>>
>>>Another engineer I'd like to punch in the nose, but that's for another
>>>thread:
>>>
>>>1992 Plym Grand Voyager: this morning in a raging snowstorm the pass
>>>side windshied wiper stopped working. It appeared as though (from the
>>>sound) the linkage came undone. I removed the cowling, etc and found
>>>that was just what happened. The assembly is the wiper, a thing that
>>>looks like a knob with a shaft on it, and the end of the shaft is
>>>knurled. There was also a spring washer resting under the whole mess in
>>>the cowling.
>>>
>>>I pressed it all back together using two blocks of wood. The way it
>>>went together I didn't think it was ever coming apart again. It lasted
>>>all of 27 minutes.
>>>
>>>What is supposed to attach to the bottom of the splined shaft? is there
>>>a screw or clip I'm missing, or is it perhaps just worn to the point
>>>where it doesn't hold anymore?
>>>
>>>TIA
>>>[/color][/color]
>[/color]

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 22:58:14 -0500, ma_twain wrote:
[color=blue]
> hachiroku wrote:
>[color=green]
>> On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 16:22:05 +0000, Art wrote:
>>
>>[color=darkred]
>>>Did you try the Chrysler forum? There is a lot of action there though not
>>>all of it is helpful.
>>>[/color]
>>
>> No, that I didn't. Still no reply in the Dodge forum...
>>[/color]
>
> What to they talk about on the Dodge forum? Not politics I hope :-)
> Obivously, you have gotten more responses from the Toyota forum, despite
> all of the political and nerd posting.
>[/color]

Infinitly more. And, uh, *I* participate in some of the political
postings, and definitely the nerd postings!!
[color=blue]
>[color=green]
>>[color=darkred]
>>>rec.autos.makers.chrysler
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"hachiroku" <levin@ae86.gts> wrote in message
>>>news:vSPYd.1242$jt6.117@trndny07...
>>>
>>>>Hey guys (and gals...)
>>>>I posted this in the Dodge forum, but there doesn't seem to be a
>>>>response. Since we have a bunch of bright, inquisitive people here who may
>>>>have had an issue with this (ART!!!) I'll post it here. Maybe someone has
>>>>seen this problem and knows a quick fix:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Another engineer I'd like to punch in the nose, but that's for another
>>>>thread:
>>>>
>>>>1992 Plym Grand Voyager: this morning in a raging snowstorm the pass
>>>>side windshied wiper stopped working. It appeared as though (from the
>>>>sound) the linkage came undone. I removed the cowling, etc and found
>>>>that was just what happened. The assembly is the wiper, a thing that
>>>>looks like a knob with a shaft on it, and the end of the shaft is
>>>>knurled. There was also a spring washer resting under the whole mess in
>>>>the cowling.
>>>>
>>>>I pressed it all back together using two blocks of wood. The way it
>>>>went together I didn't think it was ever coming apart again. It lasted
>>>>all of 27 minutes.
>>>>
>>>>What is supposed to attach to the bottom of the splined shaft? is there
>>>>a screw or clip I'm missing, or is it perhaps just worn to the point
>>>>where it doesn't hold anymore?
>>>>
>>>>TIA
>>>>[/color]
>>[/color][/color]

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 23:06:54 +0000, Travis Jordan wrote:
[color=blue]
> hachiroku wrote:[color=green]
>> Aw, c'mon! It was a whole $150, it runs, has 4WD and is a winter
>> beater/band equip hauler. Ticks like a time bomb, but it runs.[/color]
>
> Well, I guess that's OK then <grin>. Just don't spend any real money on
> it. I like the epoxy idea.[/color]

Damn man! I just remembered. I was going to go junkyard diving but one of
our associates has three of these things behind his garage! All he chrges
me for parts is what he pays his guys to trudge out there and pull 'em,
usually $5-10. If I get off my butt and go myself, they're free.

Thanks for reminding me!

If you search this group you will find several Toyota wiper problems posted
here. Usually because the strong motor breaks the linkage when the wipers
are frozen down by ice. Not the best design either.


"Travis Jordan" <no.one@no.net> wrote in message
news:n52Zd.1220164$Zm5.187788@news.easynews.com...[color=blue]
> Bruce L. Bergman wrote:[color=green]
>> I haven't had the linkage break, but I've changed out several CryCo
>> wiper motors over the years. Last on the old Work Truck, 92 Dodge in
>> about 98, a motor that shouldn't have gone bad that soon.[/color]
>
> And some people still wonder why Toyota keeps gaining market share.....
>
>[/color]