87 Tercel HC in emission tests

Took my 1987 tercel for emission tests and it failed for the 2nd time. It
has very high Hydrocarbons (HC) in the idle only. Anyway I can find the
problem or replace a part?

I hope this is the right newsgroup.

ANy help is spreciated.

I'm sure your local Toyota can find the problem and correct it
for you.


mike hunt



floppy wrote:[color=blue]
>
> Took my 1987 tercel for emission tests and it failed for the 2nd time. It
> has very high Hydrocarbons (HC) in the idle only. Anyway I can find the
> problem or replace a part?
>
> I hope this is the right newsgroup.
>
> ANy help is spreciated.[/color]

The car is worth $800, and I don't want to pay 100 to just find what the
problem is.

Thats why I am asking for help here.


<BenDover@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:424F383B.2FA94FE1@mailcity.com...[color=blue]
> I'm sure your local Toyota can find the problem and correct it
> for you.
>
>
> mike hunt
>
>
>
> floppy wrote:[color=green]
>>
>> Took my 1987 tercel for emission tests and it failed for the 2nd time. It
>> has very high Hydrocarbons (HC) in the idle only. Anyway I can find the
>> problem or replace a part?
>>
>> I hope this is the right newsgroup.
>>
>> ANy help is spreciated.[/color][/color]

On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 03:53:47 +0000, floppy wrote:
[color=blue]
> The car is worth $800, and I don't want to pay 100 to just find what the
> problem is.
>
> Thats why I am asking for help here.[/color]

Under penalty of losing my 'connection', one mechanic (who performs
emissions inspections) recommended advancing the timing slightly and using
93 ocatne gas before going into inspection. Make sure the car is fully
warmed up before having it tested.
[color=blue]
>
>
> <BenDover@mailcity.com> wrote in message
> news:424F383B.2FA94FE1@mailcity.com...[color=green]
>> I'm sure your local Toyota can find the problem and correct it
>> for you.
>>
>>
>> mike hunt
>>
>>
>>
>> floppy wrote:[color=darkred]
>>>
>>> Took my 1987 tercel for emission tests and it failed for the 2nd time. It
>>> has very high Hydrocarbons (HC) in the idle only. Anyway I can find the
>>> problem or replace a part?
>>>
>>> I hope this is the right newsgroup.
>>>
>>> ANy help is spreciated.[/color][/color][/color]

"hachiroku" <levin@ae86.gts> wrote in message
news:CQN3e.3296$7b.810@trndny01...[color=blue]
> On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 03:53:47 +0000, floppy wrote:
>[color=green]
>> The car is worth $800, and I don't want to pay 100 to just find what the
>> problem is.
>>
>> Thats why I am asking for help here.[/color]
>
> Under penalty of losing my 'connection', one mechanic (who performs
> emissions inspections) recommended advancing the timing slightly and using
> 93 ocatne gas before going into inspection. Make sure the car is fully
> warmed up before having it tested.
>[/color]

HC is unburnt fuel so the engine is running rich at idle. IIRC, that was
around the time the Tercel either had an electronic carburetor or was just
changing over to fuel injection. If it is fuel injected, you can try a
container of fuel injection cleaner, either the one supplied by Toyota
dealers or Chevron's Techron product. Follow the instructions on the
container, then try Hachiroku's recommendations.

--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply

It is carborator

Shahin


"Ray O" <rokigawa@tristarassociatesDOT.com> wrote in message
news:1495e$42503ede$180fead6$2469@msgid.meganewsservers.com...[color=blue]
> "hachiroku" <levin@ae86.gts> wrote in message
> news:CQN3e.3296$7b.810@trndny01...[color=green]
>> On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 03:53:47 +0000, floppy wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>> The car is worth $800, and I don't want to pay 100 to just find what the
>>> problem is.
>>>
>>> Thats why I am asking for help here.[/color]
>>
>> Under penalty of losing my 'connection', one mechanic (who performs
>> emissions inspections) recommended advancing the timing slightly and
>> using
>> 93 ocatne gas before going into inspection. Make sure the car is fully
>> warmed up before having it tested.
>>[/color]
>
> HC is unburnt fuel so the engine is running rich at idle. IIRC, that was
> around the time the Tercel either had an electronic carburetor or was just
> changing over to fuel injection. If it is fuel injected, you can try a
> container of fuel injection cleaner, either the one supplied by Toyota
> dealers or Chevron's Techron product. Follow the instructions on the
> container, then try Hachiroku's recommendations.
>
> --
> Ray O
> correct the return address punctuation to reply
>[/color]

"floppy" <REMOVEshahint@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:rm14e.893248$6l.787838@pd7tw2no...[color=blue]
> It is carborator
>
> Shahin
>[/color]

Late 80's Tercel carbs were not the most reliable fuel delivery system
developed by Toyota. Make sure the air filter is relatively clean (see if
you can shine a light through the air filter element), drive it on the
highway for about 30 minutes before you take it in for a re-test.
--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply

Ray O wrote:
[color=blue]
> HC is unburnt fuel so the engine is running rich at idle. IIRC, that[/color]
was[color=blue]
> around the time the Tercel either had an electronic carburetor or was[/color]
just[color=blue]
> changing over to fuel injection. If it is fuel injected, you can try[/color]
a[color=blue]
> container of fuel injection cleaner, either the one supplied by[/color]
Toyota[color=blue]
> dealers or Chevron's Techron product. Follow the instructions on the[/color]
[color=blue]
> container, then try Hachiroku's recommendations.
>
> --
> Ray O
> correct the return address punctuation to reply[/color]


HC is unburned fuel so the engine is *misfiring* at idle. The OP
apparently passed everything else (CO for example) so he is misfiring,
not running rich.

It uses the POS variable venturi carb that noone including myself can
consistently fix every time. Chances are that if the cause isn't
vacuum leak or secondary misfire related, then it's probably a control
valve around the POS carb, followed by an obstructed bleed circuit or
venturi slide problem internally. My opinion is that any carb problem
on a 1987 to 1990 Tercel isn't worth fixing. That opinion gets more
strong every year.

Toyota MDT in MO

"Comboverfish" <comboverfish@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1112585536.862401.39140@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
>
> Ray O wrote:
>[color=green]
>> HC is unburnt fuel so the engine is running rich at idle. IIRC, that[/color]
> was[color=green]
>> around the time the Tercel either had an electronic carburetor or was[/color]
> just[color=green]
>> changing over to fuel injection. If it is fuel injected, you can try[/color]
> a[color=green]
>> container of fuel injection cleaner, either the one supplied by[/color]
> Toyota[color=green]
>> dealers or Chevron's Techron product. Follow the instructions on the[/color]
>[color=green]
>> container, then try Hachiroku's recommendations.
>>
>> --
>> Ray O
>> correct the return address punctuation to reply[/color]
>
>
> HC is unburned fuel so the engine is *misfiring* at idle.[/color]

The OP[color=blue]
> apparently passed everything else (CO for example) so he is misfiring,
> not running rich.[/color]

Oops! Another brain fart from Ray on the mixture thing! Asleep at the
keyboard.
[color=blue]
>
> It uses the POS variable venturi carb that noone including myself can
> consistently fix every time. Chances are that if the cause isn't
> vacuum leak or secondary misfire related, then it's probably a control
> valve around the POS carb, followed by an obstructed bleed circuit or
> venturi slide problem internally. My opinion is that any carb problem
> on a 1987 to 1990 Tercel isn't worth fixing. That opinion gets more
> strong every year.
>
> Toyota MDT in MO
>[/color]

I remember sitting in on a class on the variable venturi carb and thinking
that it was going to be a constant source of comebacks since it was a PITA
to calibrate and there were too many things that could go wrong with it.

--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply

>Took my 1987 tercel for emission tests and it failed for the 2nd time. It[color=blue]
>has very high Hydrocarbons (HC) in the idle only. Anyway I can find the
>problem or replace a part?[/color]

Actually I have the same car :-)

And back in 2000, I too failed emissions. But I was
able to get it to pass - with flying colors!

Check out the before/after emissions results:

HC (ppm) CO (%)

Limit: 220 1.20
Before: 267 3.05 <-- failed both HC and CO
After: 008 0.02 <-- passed both HC and CO


It was quite a challenge to find a shop that didn't freeze up in
horror when they learned it had a (gasp) variable venturi carb.

Even the Toyota dealer wimped out ("We won't try to repair it, but
we can try to replace it. I should warn you though, we've never
done it before, and it'll cost $1,200."). Thanks, but no thanks.

Finally I just called all the repair shops that advertised as
carb specialists. And I was so frustrated at that point that
I just had the do "the whole works" all at once, ie,

1) Motorvac carbon cleaning - basically this is like giving
your carb an enema, with a super-strong carburator cleaner.

Cost: $125
Details:
[url]http://www.autoequipmentonline.com/autoequipmentonline/Autocare/autocare.html[/url]
and
[url]http://www.marcsgarage.com/why_motorvac.shtml[/url]


2) rebuild the carb
Cost: $390.

----
In hindsight,
since my emissions numbers improved so phenomenally, I think that
the cheap route (1) would have been sufficient.

Fortunately... you do NOT need to find a carb expert to do a MotorVac
treatment - lots of places will do it.

----
Or if you just want to try the "starving student" solution, you could
just go by Napa and get a $5 bottle of "SeaFoam" and try it yourself.

SeaFoam is a lot more effective than Techron or the other car cleaners.
The way to use it is to take off your air cleaner, rev the engine
up a bit, and while its running, slowly dribble it into the carb.

Here's a write-up that gives an (alternate) way of doing the
SeaFoam treatment:

[url]http://www.diyimports.com/seafoam.html[/url]

----
Regarding the comment that it's just an $800 car - well, that may
be the blue book value, but the way I look at it is I'd have to spend
at least $8k to be assured of getting a car as reliable as my Tercel.
So in my mind, that makes my Tercel an $8k car.

As far as longevity, my Toyota mechanic buddy drives a 1985 Toyota
van with 330k, and the engine is still just fine (good compression
in all cylinders). So I figure my 150k Tercel probably has lots more useful
life left.

Good luck!
-Ted

[email]ted@mayfield.hp.com[/email] (Ted Johnson) writes:
[color=blue]
> Or if you just want to try the "starving student" solution, you could
> just go by Napa and get a $5 bottle of "SeaFoam" and try it yourself.
>
> SeaFoam is a lot more effective than Techron or the other car cleaners.
> The way to use it is to take off your air cleaner, rev the engine
> up a bit, and while its running, slowly dribble it into the carb.[/color]

I have an 85 carbourated Corolla that starts to run really rough when
cold about every 5 years. A can of carbourator cleaner inside and
out, followed by WD40 on every moving part I can see is my solution.

--
Ken Goldman [email]kgold@watson.ibm.com[/email] 914-784-7646