The Truth (History, Corrected): Reagan had LITTLE To Do With Communism's Fall

CITE: <http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2005/pope/stories/bio3/index.html>

The above isn't the best citation actually. It is a starting point for
all of the dittoheads and right-wing radicals who frequent these
postings.

To quote Robert Moynihan, editor/publisher of "Inside the Vatican" (a
vatican magazine):

[quote]
Huge, adoring crowds met (Pope John Paul II) wherever he went and were
an acute source of embarrassment to the communist government.

Officially, the country was atheistic; it was also suffering from food
shortages.

The pope added to the authorities' discomfort by reminding his fellow
Poles of their human rights.

"That was the beginning of the end of what we call the Soviet Empire,"
Robert Moynihan, editor and publisher of the magazine "Inside the
Vatican," told CNN in a 2003 interview.

"I think he brought that empire down, but not with missiles and not
even with economic sanctions, but just by being a man, by being a man
of faith."
[/quote]


The fact is.. that communism was falling before Reagan even took
office. It started with the election of an unknown Polish holy man to
the Papacy. It started with Jimmy Carter shaking hands with John Paul
II during his first visit to the United States.

By the time Reagan started his obsession with Intercontinental
Ballistic Missles carrying Nuclear Warheads, the "Solidarity" movement
had taken foot.

Although Reagan and then-CIA chief William Casey did their share of
covert financing of the Solidarity movement [THROUGH THE VATICAN'S
OFFICE], Without Lech Walensa, Pope John Paul II and Mikhail Gorbachev
we'd probably all be dead now thanks to a nuclear war and Reagan's love
affair with Weapons of Mass Distruction.


Again I say... How Ironic?


Richard
-------
[url]www.xdnc.com[/url]

Learning Richard, 4/4/2005, 2:16:26 PM, wrote:

Subject should be corrected to History, Rewritten by fringe bitter
Michael Moore wannabe.

--
No matter what happens, someone will find a way to take it too
seriously.

In article <1112638586.869697.37770@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
"Learning Richard" <learningrichard@gmail.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
> CITE: <http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2005/pope/stories/bio3/index.html>
>
> The above isn't the best citation actually. It is a starting point for
> all of the dittoheads and right-wing radicals who frequent these
> postings.
>
> To quote Robert Moynihan, editor/publisher of "Inside the Vatican" (a
> vatican magazine):
>
> [quote]
> Huge, adoring crowds met (Pope John Paul II) wherever he went and were
> an acute source of embarrassment to the communist government.
>
> Officially, the country was atheistic; it was also suffering from food
> shortages.
>
> The pope added to the authorities' discomfort by reminding his fellow
> Poles of their human rights.
>
> "That was the beginning of the end of what we call the Soviet Empire,"
> Robert Moynihan, editor and publisher of the magazine "Inside the
> Vatican," told CNN in a 2003 interview.
>
> "I think he brought that empire down, but not with missiles and not
> even with economic sanctions, but just by being a man, by being a man
> of faith."
> [/quote]
>
>
> The fact is.. that communism was falling before Reagan even took
> office. It started with the election of an unknown Polish holy man to
> the Papacy. It started with Jimmy Carter shaking hands with John Paul
> II during his first visit to the United States.
>
> By the time Reagan started his obsession with Intercontinental
> Ballistic Missles carrying Nuclear Warheads, the "Solidarity" movement
> had taken foot.
>
> Although Reagan and then-CIA chief William Casey did their share of
> covert financing of the Solidarity movement [THROUGH THE VATICAN'S
> OFFICE], Without Lech Walensa, Pope John Paul II and Mikhail Gorbachev
> we'd probably all be dead now thanks to a nuclear war and Reagan's love
> affair with Weapons of Mass Distruction.
>
>
> Again I say... How Ironic?
>
>
> Richard
> -------
> [url]www.xdnc.com[/url][/color]

who cares
--

badgolferman wrote:[color=blue]
> Learning Richard, 4/4/2005, 2:16:26 PM, wrote:
>
> Subject should be corrected to History, Rewritten by fringe bitter
> Michael Moore wannabe.[/color]


Which part of the above citation is incorrect in its statement of fact?
All Reagan did was build Nuclear Bombs. Walensa, John Paul II, and
Gorbachev ended Communism.


Richard
-------
[url]www.xdnc.com[/url]

On 4 Apr 2005 11:41:42 -0700, "Learning Richard"
<learningrichard@gmail.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>Which part of the above citation is incorrect in its statement of fact?
> All Reagan did was build Nuclear Bombs. Walensa, John Paul II, and
>Gorbachev ended Communism.[/color]

The sad part of this whole thread, Richard, is that you actually
believe that.

CNN as a source? LOL. All Reagan did was build bombs? How willingly
and woefully ignorant you are.

But you're still Learning.


------------------------------------------------
The DNC - Building a bridge to the 20th Century.

dbu~' wrote:[color=blue]
> In article <1112638586.869697.37770@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
> "Learning Richard" <learningrichard@gmail.com> wrote:
>[color=green]
> > CITE:[/color][/color]
<http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2005/pope/stories/bio3/index.html>[color=blue][color=green]
> >
> > The above isn't the best citation actually. It is a starting point[/color][/color]
for[color=blue][color=green]
> > all of the dittoheads and right-wing radicals who frequent these
> > postings.
> >
> > To quote Robert Moynihan, editor/publisher of "Inside the Vatican"[/color][/color]
(a[color=blue][color=green]
> > vatican magazine):
> >
> > [quote]
> > Huge, adoring crowds met (Pope John Paul II) wherever he went and[/color][/color]
were[color=blue][color=green]
> > an acute source of embarrassment to the communist government.
> >
> > Officially, the country was atheistic; it was also suffering from[/color][/color]
food[color=blue][color=green]
> > shortages.
> >
> > The pope added to the authorities' discomfort by reminding his[/color][/color]
fellow[color=blue][color=green]
> > Poles of their human rights.
> >
> > "That was the beginning of the end of what we call the Soviet[/color][/color]
Empire,"[color=blue][color=green]
> > Robert Moynihan, editor and publisher of the magazine "Inside the
> > Vatican," told CNN in a 2003 interview.
> >
> > "I think he brought that empire down, but not with missiles and not
> > even with economic sanctions, but just by being a man, by being a[/color][/color]
man[color=blue][color=green]
> > of faith."
> > [/quote]
> >
> >
> > The fact is.. that communism was falling before Reagan even took
> > office. It started with the election of an unknown Polish holy man[/color][/color]
to[color=blue][color=green]
> > the Papacy. It started with Jimmy Carter shaking hands with John[/color][/color]
Paul[color=blue][color=green]
> > II during his first visit to the United States.
> >
> > By the time Reagan started his obsession with Intercontinental
> > Ballistic Missles carrying Nuclear Warheads, the "Solidarity"[/color][/color]
movement[color=blue][color=green]
> > had taken foot.
> >
> > Although Reagan and then-CIA chief William Casey did their share of
> > covert financing of the Solidarity movement [THROUGH THE VATICAN'S
> > OFFICE], Without Lech Walensa, Pope John Paul II and Mikhail[/color][/color]
Gorbachev[color=blue][color=green]
> > we'd probably all be dead now thanks to a nuclear war and Reagan's[/color][/color]
love[color=blue][color=green]
> > affair with Weapons of Mass Distruction.
> >
> >
> > Again I say... How Ironic?
> >
> >
> > Richard
> > -------
> > [url]www.xdnc.com[/url][/color]
>
> who cares[/color]

I do. I care about the truth. So do most Sane American Citizens.


Richard
-------
[url]www.xdnc.com[/url]

On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 11:48:50 -0700, Eric Dreher <ericd@cox.nét> wrote:
[color=blue]
>On 4 Apr 2005 11:41:42 -0700, "Learning Richard"
><learningrichard@gmail.com> wrote:
>[color=green]
>>Which part of the above citation is incorrect in its statement of fact?
>> All Reagan did was build Nuclear Bombs. Walensa, John Paul II, and
>>Gorbachev ended Communism.[/color]
>
>The sad part of this whole thread, Richard, is that you actually
>believe that.
>
>CNN as a source? LOL. All Reagan did was build bombs? How willingly
>and woefully ignorant you are.
>
>But you're still Learning.[/color]

Yes...I saw CNN and decided it was not worth reading.

Went back and read it and it confirmed my first impression.

Does anyone watch CNN anymore???


--
Scott in Florida

On 4 Apr 2005 11:54:07 -0700, "Learning Richard"
<learningrichard@gmail.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>
>dbu~' wrote:[/color]
[color=blue][color=green]
>> who cares[/color]
>
>I do. I care about the truth. So do most Sane American Citizens.
>
>
>Richard[/color]

If you truly care about the truth, then I'd suggest you find some
'real' sources for your information.


--
Scott in Florida

Scott in Florida wrote:[color=blue]
> On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 11:48:50 -0700, Eric Dreher <ericd@cox.nét>[/color]
wrote:[color=blue]
>[color=green]
> >On 4 Apr 2005 11:41:42 -0700, "Learning Richard"
> ><learningrichard@gmail.com> wrote:
> >[color=darkred]
> >>Which part of the above citation is incorrect in its statement of[/color][/color][/color]
fact?[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
> >> All Reagan did was build Nuclear Bombs. Walensa, John Paul II,[/color][/color][/color]
and[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
> >>Gorbachev ended Communism.[/color]
> >
> >The sad part of this whole thread, Richard, is that you actually
> >believe that.
> >
> >CNN as a source? LOL. All Reagan did was build bombs? How[/color][/color]
willingly[color=blue][color=green]
> >and woefully ignorant you are.
> >
> >But you're still Learning.[/color]
>
> Yes...I saw CNN and decided it was not worth reading.
>
> Went back and read it and it confirmed my first impression.
>
> Does anyone watch CNN anymore???[/color]

It's ok girls. The fact that I cited CNN is arbitrary. Give me a
little time, I'll post the Cliff's Notes for the book upon which the
above is based. Face it guys. All Reagan did was Build Bombs.

"Learning Richard" <learningrichard@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1112638586.869697.37770@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
> CITE: <http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2005/pope/stories/bio3/index.html>
>
> The above isn't the best citation actually. It is a starting point for
> all of the dittoheads and right-wing radicals who frequent these
> postings.
>[/color]
There were no Catholics in East Germany, where Regain said "Tear Down This
Wall."

There were no Catholics in the USSR, which split in to multiple independent
nations (Russia, Ukraine, and about 10 others).

This is just a bunch of left wing propoganda.

The pope just did what Reagan told him to do.

Mark A wrote:[color=blue]
> "Learning Richard" <learningrichard@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1112638586.869697.37770@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...[color=green]
> > CITE:[/color][/color]
<http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2005/pope/stories/bio3/index.html>[color=blue][color=green]
> >
> > The above isn't the best citation actually. It is a starting point[/color][/color]
for[color=blue][color=green]
> > all of the dittoheads and right-wing radicals who frequent these
> > postings.
> >[/color]
> There were no Catholics in East Germany, where Regain said "Tear Down[/color]
This[color=blue]
> Wall."[/color]

What kind of drugs are you on? I'm sorry, but this is patently false.
A lie, if you will (and I will). I suppose you believe that John Paul
II wasn't really Polish either.
[color=blue]
>
> There were no Catholics in the USSR, which split in to multiple[/color]
independent[color=blue]
> nations (Russia, Ukraine, and about 10 others).[/color]

That would be Gorbachev saying he would no longer support these
countries economically. Nothing to do with Reagan.
[color=blue]
>
> This is just a bunch of left wing propoganda.[/color]

Sure... and William Casey, CIA Director under Ronald Reagan,
contributed much material to the book I cite. I'm sure he's a card
carrying liberal.

[color=blue]
>
> The pope just did what Reagan told him to do.[/color]

Give facts. You can type anything you want into that little window,
but generally we try to post facts that can be supported.


HTH


Richard
-------
[url]www.xdnc.com[/url]

"Learning Richard" <learningrichard@gmail.com> wrote in
news:1112640101.884537.44850@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
[color=blue]
>
> badgolferman wrote:[color=green]
>> Learning Richard, 4/4/2005, 2:16:26 PM, wrote:
>>
>> Subject should be corrected to History, Rewritten by fringe bitter
>> Michael Moore wannabe.[/color]
>
>
> Which part of the above citation is incorrect in its statement of fact?
> All Reagan did was build Nuclear Bombs. Walensa, John Paul II, and
> Gorbachev ended Communism.
>[/color]



Well, actually, Sovietism began to collapse after two major events
occurred:

1) Paul Volcker and Reagan stopped runaway '70s inflation
2) Reagan deregulated oil and natural gas prices
3) The Soviets engaged in a hugely expensive and futile war in Afghanistan.

The first two meant that without the support of wild inflation, the price
of gold and oil collapsed, and the Soviets lost the vast bulk of their
hard-currency income. Most of their real income was derived from foreign
sales of oil and gold. Their domestic economy certainly didn't produce
anything.

Without hard currency, the Soviets were uanable to pay for their support of
their satellite states, and were unable to continue their enormous
expenditures in support of Communist rebels and terrorist organizations
like the PLO and the IRA.

By the time JPII and Walesa actually had any real influence, the Soviet
Empire was a hollow shell. Only nobody knew it until they failed to roll
the tanks when Jaruzelski fell, and then when they failed to roll the tanks
after Ceaucescu fell, and then when they failed to roll them after the
Berlin Wall fell.

Money drives terrorism and despotism. Money drove the Soviets, and money
drives the current middle-Eastern terrorists today. Only today it's drug
prohibition that funds them, not oil and gold.

--
TeGGeR®

Eric Dreher wrote:
[color=blue]
> CNN as a source? LOL. All Reagan did was build bombs? How[/color]
willingly[color=blue]
> and woefully ignorant you are.
>
> But you're still Learning.[/color]

He did a lot more.

He armed, trained and funded the Taliban and Osama Ben Laden's militia
to fight the Soviets in Afganistan.

He armed and trained Saddam Hussein's army to fight the Iranians.

This was necessary because he armed the Iranians to get covert money
for Nicaragua.

Long term planning was not his strength.

But Congress gave him a credit card with a $500 billion a year limit
and it was fun until the bill came due.

Where do you get the goofy stuff you post? I what you say were
true then why did the head of the Russian KGB say; "Reagan's
decision to out spend us on defense was brilliant. Trying to keep
up destroyed our economy and brought down the Communist Party?"
;)


mike hunt



Learning Richard wrote:[color=blue]
>
> badgolferman wrote:[color=green]
> > Learning Richard, 4/4/2005, 2:16:26 PM, wrote:
> >
> > Subject should be corrected to History, Rewritten by fringe bitter
> > Michael Moore wannabe.[/color]
>
> Which part of the above citation is incorrect in its statement of fact?
> All Reagan did was build Nuclear Bombs. Walensa, John Paul II, and
> Gorbachev ended Communism.
>
> Richard
> -------
> [url]www.xdnc.com[/url][/color]

In article <1112640101.884537.44850@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"Learning Richard" <learningrichard@gmail.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
> All Reagan did was build Nuclear Bombs. Walensa, John Paul II, and
> Gorbachev ended Communism.
>
>
> Richard[/color]

surely you jest sir?
--