Deliberately close refineries to drive up price

[url]http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2005/04/315482.shtml[/url]

Boxer Has a Tape
author: ABC7

Looks like there could be a FTC investigation if Bush Appointee
Chairwoman can be budged-She used to work for Chief Counsel to Chevron Oil

Boxer Calls For Oil Price Investigation

Apr. 13 (ABC7) - It was a pretty startling admission from the oil
industry -- the head of a major refinery gleefully pronouncing that tight
supplies were driving up prices and profits. After reviewing an ABC7 News
tape of that event, California Senator Barbara Boxer is now calling for an
investigation. Senator Boxer has fired off a letter accusing the oil
industry of "making windfall profits on the backs of consumers." ABC7's Mark
Matthews reports.


The gasoline industry tells us that high prices are the product of the
market place - supply and demand. We believe that if there is a big demand,
suppliers will ramp up, and if the market works like it's supposed to,
supply will increase and prices will come down. But that isn't what the
nation's largest independent oil refiner has in mind.

When Hank Kuchta took the podium last month he had just received an
award for refiner of the year. And his companies stock is up 50 percent from
last year; he told his fellow refiners business is good and likely to stay
that way.

Hank Kuchta, Premcor (3/10/05): "When you take a look at where the
supply demand balance sits worldwide, you certainly come to the conclusion
that we're now finally in a situation where we don't have a lot of extra
supply."

Kuchta went on to encourage his fellow refiners to keep the supply
demand balance tight.

Kuchta (3/10/05): "If we go in and we start expanding like crazy
before the demand gets there, that's the shoot yourself in the foot theory
and we'll all be the opposite of geniuses. You pick the word, but they'll
kill us for it, believe me."

We took the raw video tape of the refiner's speech to Washington to
show to Sentor Barbara Boxer.

Sen. Barbara Boxer, (D) California: "I'm really angry. I'm upset that
these oil companies, these refiners, they don't care about anyone but
themselves and the bottom line, and I hope this tape makes them pay a price
for this."

Senator Boxer is sending the video tape we gave her to the Federal
Trade Commission along with a letter to the commissions president calling on
the commission to investigate the refineries immediately.

Sen. Boxer: "I think what is important about what you've done is you
got a camera into a room where nobody thought you were, and therefore, they
spoke the truth."

In the past when we've asked refiners about the price of gasoline,
we've been told they were working as fast as they can, but there are too few
refineries and the environmental regulations are too stiff.

Dave Fogarty, Western States Petroleum Association: "We're making as
much gasoline as we possibly can in this state."

Dave Fogarty is a spokesman for the refinery association that invited
us to the conference last month. He doesn't represent Hank Kuchta's company,
but I asked him what he thought about the refiner's comments.

Mark Matthews (quoting Kuchta): "If we start expanding like crazy
before the demand gets there that's the shoot yourself in the foot theory."

Fogarty: "I can't interpret that. You're going to have to ask him."

We put Dave Forgarty on the spot, but he's right, we need to ask Hank
Kuchta. About what he said, his assistant told us today her boss is
traveling, she has no comment. The chairwoman of the of the Federal Trade
Commission was appointed by President Bush. She used to work for the chief
counsel to Chevron Oil.

In article <Rcbce.808$V01.554@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
"Philip" <1chip-state1@earthlink.n0t> wrote:
[color=blue]
> [url]http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2005/04/315482.shtml[/url]
>
> Boxer Has a Tape
> author: ABC7
>
> Looks like there could be a FTC investigation if Bush Appointee
> Chairwoman can be budged-She used to work for Chief Counsel to Chevron Oil
>
> Boxer Calls For Oil Price Investigation
>
> Apr. 13 (ABC7) - It was a pretty startling admission from the oil
> industry -- the head of a major refinery gleefully pronouncing that tight
> supplies were driving up prices and profits. After reviewing an ABC7 News
> tape of that event, California Senator Barbara Boxer is now calling for an
> investigation. Senator Boxer has fired off a letter accusing the oil
> industry of "making windfall profits on the backs of consumers." ABC7's Mark
> Matthews reports.
>
>
> The gasoline industry tells us that high prices are the product of the
> market place - supply and demand. We believe that if there is a big demand,
> suppliers will ramp up, and if the market works like it's supposed to,
> supply will increase and prices will come down. But that isn't what the
> nation's largest independent oil refiner has in mind.
>
> When Hank Kuchta took the podium last month he had just received an
> award for refiner of the year. And his companies stock is up 50 percent from
> last year; he told his fellow refiners business is good and likely to stay
> that way.
>
> Hank Kuchta, Premcor (3/10/05): "When you take a look at where the
> supply demand balance sits worldwide, you certainly come to the conclusion
> that we're now finally in a situation where we don't have a lot of extra
> supply."
>
> Kuchta went on to encourage his fellow refiners to keep the supply
> demand balance tight.
>
> Kuchta (3/10/05): "If we go in and we start expanding like crazy
> before the demand gets there, that's the shoot yourself in the foot theory
> and we'll all be the opposite of geniuses. You pick the word, but they'll
> kill us for it, believe me."
>
> We took the raw video tape of the refiner's speech to Washington to
> show to Sentor Barbara Boxer.
>
> Sen. Barbara Boxer, (D) California: "I'm really angry. I'm upset that
> these oil companies, these refiners, they don't care about anyone but
> themselves and the bottom line, and I hope this tape makes them pay a price
> for this."
>
> Senator Boxer is sending the video tape we gave her to the Federal
> Trade Commission along with a letter to the commissions president calling on
> the commission to investigate the refineries immediately.
>
> Sen. Boxer: "I think what is important about what you've done is you
> got a camera into a room where nobody thought you were, and therefore, they
> spoke the truth."
>
> In the past when we've asked refiners about the price of gasoline,
> we've been told they were working as fast as they can, but there are too few
> refineries and the environmental regulations are too stiff.
>
> Dave Fogarty, Western States Petroleum Association: "We're making as
> much gasoline as we possibly can in this state."
>
> Dave Fogarty is a spokesman for the refinery association that invited
> us to the conference last month. He doesn't represent Hank Kuchta's company,
> but I asked him what he thought about the refiner's comments.
>
> Mark Matthews (quoting Kuchta): "If we start expanding like crazy
> before the demand gets there that's the shoot yourself in the foot theory."
>
> Fogarty: "I can't interpret that. You're going to have to ask him."
>
> We put Dave Forgarty on the spot, but he's right, we need to ask Hank
> Kuchta. About what he said, his assistant told us today her boss is
> traveling, she has no comment. The chairwoman of the of the Federal Trade
> Commission was appointed by President Bush. She used to work for the chief
> counsel to Chevron Oil.[/color]

I'm happy California has her and not us. I really like to watch and
listen to her talk though. She's a real actor. Shudda taken up movie
acting.
--

Dbu,~' wrote:[color=blue]
> In article <Rcbce.808$V01.554@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
> "Philip" <1chip-state1@earthlink.n0t> wrote:
>[color=green]
> > [url]http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2005/04/315482.shtml[/url]
> >
> > Boxer Has a Tape
> > author: ABC7
> >
> > Looks like there could be a FTC investigation if Bush[/color][/color]
Appointee[color=blue][color=green]
> > Chairwoman can be budged-She used to work for Chief Counsel to[/color][/color]
Chevron Oil[color=blue][color=green]
> >
> > Boxer Calls For Oil Price Investigation
> >
> > Apr. 13 (ABC7) - It was a pretty startling admission from the[/color][/color]
oil[color=blue][color=green]
> > industry -- the head of a major refinery gleefully pronouncing that[/color][/color]
tight[color=blue][color=green]
> > supplies were driving up prices and profits. After reviewing an[/color][/color]
ABC7 News[color=blue][color=green]
> > tape of that event, California Senator Barbara Boxer is now calling[/color][/color]
for an[color=blue][color=green]
> > investigation. Senator Boxer has fired off a letter accusing the[/color][/color]
oil[color=blue][color=green]
> > industry of "making windfall profits on the backs of consumers."[/color][/color]
ABC7's Mark[color=blue][color=green]
> > Matthews reports.
> >
> >
> > The gasoline industry tells us that high prices are the[/color][/color]
product of the[color=blue][color=green]
> > market place - supply and demand. We believe that if there is a big[/color][/color]
demand,[color=blue][color=green]
> > suppliers will ramp up, and if the market works like it's supposed[/color][/color]
to,[color=blue][color=green]
> > supply will increase and prices will come down. But that isn't what[/color][/color]
the[color=blue][color=green]
> > nation's largest independent oil refiner has in mind.
> >
> > When Hank Kuchta took the podium last month he had just[/color][/color]
received an[color=blue][color=green]
> > award for refiner of the year. And his companies stock is up 50[/color][/color]
percent from[color=blue][color=green]
> > last year; he told his fellow refiners business is good and likely[/color][/color]
to stay[color=blue][color=green]
> > that way.
> >
> > Hank Kuchta, Premcor (3/10/05): "When you take a look at[/color][/color]
where the[color=blue][color=green]
> > supply demand balance sits worldwide, you certainly come to the[/color][/color]
conclusion[color=blue][color=green]
> > that we're now finally in a situation where we don't have a lot of[/color][/color]
extra[color=blue][color=green]
> > supply."
> >
> > Kuchta went on to encourage his fellow refiners to keep the[/color][/color]
supply[color=blue][color=green]
> > demand balance tight.
> >
> > Kuchta (3/10/05): "If we go in and we start expanding like[/color][/color]
crazy[color=blue][color=green]
> > before the demand gets there, that's the shoot yourself in the foot[/color][/color]
theory[color=blue][color=green]
> > and we'll all be the opposite of geniuses. You pick the word, but[/color][/color]
they'll[color=blue][color=green]
> > kill us for it, believe me."
> >
> > We took the raw video tape of the refiner's speech to[/color][/color]
Washington to[color=blue][color=green]
> > show to Sentor Barbara Boxer.
> >
> > Sen. Barbara Boxer, (D) California: "I'm really angry. I'm[/color][/color]
upset that[color=blue][color=green]
> > these oil companies, these refiners, they don't care about anyone[/color][/color]
but[color=blue][color=green]
> > themselves and the bottom line, and I hope this tape makes them pay[/color][/color]
a price[color=blue][color=green]
> > for this."
> >
> > Senator Boxer is sending the video tape we gave her to the[/color][/color]
Federal[color=blue][color=green]
> > Trade Commission along with a letter to the commissions president[/color][/color]
calling on[color=blue][color=green]
> > the commission to investigate the refineries immediately.
> >
> > Sen. Boxer: "I think what is important about what you've done[/color][/color]
is you[color=blue][color=green]
> > got a camera into a room where nobody thought you were, and[/color][/color]
therefore, they[color=blue][color=green]
> > spoke the truth."
> >
> > In the past when we've asked refiners about the price of[/color][/color]
gasoline,[color=blue][color=green]
> > we've been told they were working as fast as they can, but there[/color][/color]
are too few[color=blue][color=green]
> > refineries and the environmental regulations are too stiff.
> >
> > Dave Fogarty, Western States Petroleum Association: "We're[/color][/color]
making as[color=blue][color=green]
> > much gasoline as we possibly can in this state."
> >
> > Dave Fogarty is a spokesman for the refinery association that[/color][/color]
invited[color=blue][color=green]
> > us to the conference last month. He doesn't represent Hank Kuchta's[/color][/color]
company,[color=blue][color=green]
> > but I asked him what he thought about the refiner's comments.
> >
> > Mark Matthews (quoting Kuchta): "If we start expanding like[/color][/color]
crazy[color=blue][color=green]
> > before the demand gets there that's the shoot yourself in the foot[/color][/color]
theory."[color=blue][color=green]
> >
> > Fogarty: "I can't interpret that. You're going to have to ask[/color][/color]
him."[color=blue][color=green]
> >
> > We put Dave Forgarty on the spot, but he's right, we need to[/color][/color]
ask Hank[color=blue][color=green]
> > Kuchta. About what he said, his assistant told us today her boss is
> > traveling, she has no comment. The chairwoman of the of the Federal[/color][/color]
Trade[color=blue][color=green]
> > Commission was appointed by President Bush. She used to work for[/color][/color]
the chief[color=blue][color=green]
> > counsel to Chevron Oil.[/color]
>
> I'm happy California has her and not us. I really like to watch and
> listen to her talk though. She's a real actor. Shudda taken up[/color]
movie[color=blue]
> acting.
>[/color]

Dbu~, you certainly aren't the brightest bulb in the pack are you?
Here's a Senator calling for an investigation because oil companies are
bilking American Taxpayers like you and me, and somehow you have a
problem with that. Not to engage in name calling, but you sure do act
like a complete moron..


Richard
-------
[url]www.xdnc.com[/url]

"Philip" <1chip-state1@earthlink.n0t> wrote in message
news:Rcbce.808$V01.554@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...[color=blue]
> [url]http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2005/04/315482.shtml[/url]
>
> Boxer Has a Tape
> author: ABC7
>
> Looks like there could be a FTC investigation if Bush Appointee
> Chairwoman can be budged-She used to work for Chief Counsel to Chevron Oil
>[/color]

This is ridiculous. It would help an oil refiner to close someone else's
refinery, but does not help to close their own refinery, even if it caused
prices to go up for there other refineries.

These idiots need an education in basic micro-economics.

The reason that there are not enough refineries is that no new ones have
built in the last 30 years in the US because of environmental laws and other
regulatory legislation.

Why don't all the democrats pool their money and build a refinery (lets see
if they can get regulatory approvals). Independent refineries do exist, they
just buy up crude oil on the open market from independent oil companies. No
problem. Lets see the democrats try it. Maybe dems like George Soros or
Warren Buffet should build some refineries. They have plenty of cash to
invest. I believe that Bill Gates is also a Democrat.

In article <fKCdnZqTh-Eqz-zfRVn-2g@comcast.com>,
"Mark A" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
> Why don't all the democrats pool their money and build a refinery (lets see
> if they can get regulatory approvals). Independent refineries do exist, they
> just buy up crude oil on the open market from independent oil companies. No
> problem. Lets see the democrats try it. Maybe dems like George Soros or
> Warren Buffet should build some refineries. They have plenty of cash to
> invest. I believe that Bill Gates is also a Democrat.[/color]

Now I'd love to see old George Soros pony up some serious cash, same
with Warren Buffet. Perhaps they could sell off a bunch of their
respective companies and/or stock holdings for the good of our country
and help lower the oil prices for the rest of us. Come on George and
Warren lets pitch in. Soros spent a bundle on trying to unseat Bush, i
would think a few billion would be ok, after all he is a progressive
Democrat and this is the kind of stuff he preaches.
--

"Dbu,~'" <notspam@sp.com> wrote in message
news:notspam-593941.16523028042005@news-rdr-01.rdc-kc.rr.com...[color=blue]
> In article <fKCdnZqTh-Eqz-zfRVn-2g@comcast.com>,
> "Mark A" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Why don't all the democrats pool their money and build a refinery (lets
>> see
>> if they can get regulatory approvals). Independent refineries do exist,
>> they
>> just buy up crude oil on the open market from independent oil companies.
>> No
>> problem. Lets see the democrats try it. Maybe dems like George Soros or
>> Warren Buffet should build some refineries. They have plenty of cash to
>> invest. I believe that Bill Gates is also a Democrat.[/color]
>
> Now I'd love to see old George Soros pony up some serious cash, same
> with Warren Buffet. Perhaps they could sell off a bunch of their
> respective companies and/or stock holdings for the good of our country
> and help lower the oil prices for the rest of us. Come on George and
> Warren lets pitch in. Soros spent a bundle on trying to unseat Bush, i
> would think a few billion would be ok, after all he is a progressive
> Democrat and this is the kind of stuff he preaches.
> --[/color]

I'd bet George Soros and Warren Buffet could fund a refinery without having
to sell off a bunch their companies or stock holdings.
--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply

"Ray O" <rokigawa@tristarassociatesDOT.com> wrote in message
news:b4f29$427160a0[color=blue]
> I'd bet George Soros and Warren Buffet could fund a refinery without
> having to sell off a bunch their companies or stock holdings.
> --
> Ray O[/color]

They could build a bunch of refineries out of their own personal holdings
and not even notice the impact on their net worth (assuming they could get
regulatory approval to build them).

Dbu,~' wrote:[color=blue]
> In article <Rcbce.808$V01.554@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
> "Philip" <1chip-state1@earthlink.n0t> wrote:
>[color=green]
>> [url]http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2005/04/315482.shtml[/url]
>>
>> Boxer Has a Tape
>> author: ABC7
>>
>> Looks like there could be a FTC investigation if Bush Appointee
>> Chairwoman can be budged-She used to work for Chief Counsel to
>> Chevron Oil
>>
>> Boxer Calls For Oil Price Investigation
>>
>> Apr. 13 (ABC7) - It was a pretty startling admission from the
>> oil industry -- the head of a major refinery gleefully pronouncing
>> that tight supplies were driving up prices and profits. After
>> reviewing an ABC7 News tape of that event, California Senator
>> Barbara Boxer is now calling for an investigation. Senator Boxer has
>> fired off a letter accusing the oil industry of "making windfall
>> profits on the backs of consumers." ABC7's Mark Matthews reports.
>>
>>
>> The gasoline industry tells us that high prices are the
>> product of the market place - supply and demand. We believe that if
>> there is a big demand, suppliers will ramp up, and if the market
>> works like it's supposed to, supply will increase and prices will
>> come down. But that isn't what the nation's largest independent oil
>> refiner has in mind.
>>
>> When Hank Kuchta took the podium last month he had just
>> received an award for refiner of the year. And his companies stock
>> is up 50 percent from last year; he told his fellow refiners
>> business is good and likely to stay that way.
>>
>> Hank Kuchta, Premcor (3/10/05): "When you take a look at where
>> the supply demand balance sits worldwide, you certainly come to the
>> conclusion that we're now finally in a situation where we don't have
>> a lot of extra supply."
>>
>> Kuchta went on to encourage his fellow refiners to keep the
>> supply demand balance tight.
>>
>> Kuchta (3/10/05): "If we go in and we start expanding like
>> crazy before the demand gets there, that's the shoot yourself in the
>> foot theory and we'll all be the opposite of geniuses. You pick the
>> word, but they'll kill us for it, believe me."
>>
>> We took the raw video tape of the refiner's speech to
>> Washington to show to Sentor Barbara Boxer.
>>
>> Sen. Barbara Boxer, (D) California: "I'm really angry. I'm
>> upset that these oil companies, these refiners, they don't care
>> about anyone but themselves and the bottom line, and I hope this
>> tape makes them pay a price for this."
>>
>> Senator Boxer is sending the video tape we gave her to the
>> Federal Trade Commission along with a letter to the commissions
>> president calling on the commission to investigate the refineries
>> immediately.
>>
>> Sen. Boxer: "I think what is important about what you've done
>> is you got a camera into a room where nobody thought you were, and
>> therefore, they spoke the truth."
>>
>> In the past when we've asked refiners about the price of
>> gasoline, we've been told they were working as fast as they can, but
>> there are too few refineries and the environmental regulations are
>> too stiff.
>>
>> Dave Fogarty, Western States Petroleum Association: "We're
>> making as much gasoline as we possibly can in this state."
>>
>> Dave Fogarty is a spokesman for the refinery association that
>> invited us to the conference last month. He doesn't represent Hank
>> Kuchta's company, but I asked him what he thought about the
>> refiner's comments.
>>
>> Mark Matthews (quoting Kuchta): "If we start expanding like
>> crazy before the demand gets there that's the shoot yourself in the
>> foot theory."
>>
>> Fogarty: "I can't interpret that. You're going to have to ask
>> him."
>>
>> We put Dave Forgarty on the spot, but he's right, we need to
>> ask Hank Kuchta. About what he said, his assistant told us today her
>> boss is traveling, she has no comment. The chairwoman of the of the
>> Federal Trade Commission was appointed by President Bush. She used
>> to work for the chief counsel to Chevron Oil.[/color]
>
> I'm happy California has her and not us. I really like to watch and
> listen to her talk though. She's a real actor. Shudda taken up movie
> acting.[/color]

Boxer is an embarrassment 99% of the time. But she got a piece of meat with
this audio/video of that oil exec spouting off about limiting petrol
refining in order to get fuel prices higher.

Learning Richard wrote:[color=blue]
> Dbu,~' wrote:[color=green]
>> In article <Rcbce.808$V01.554@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
>> "Philip" <1chip-state1@earthlink.n0t> wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>> [url]http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2005/04/315482.shtml[/url]
>>>
>>> Boxer Has a Tape
>>> author: ABC7
>>>
>>> Looks like there could be a FTC investigation if Bush
>>> Appointee Chairwoman can be budged-She used to work for Chief
>>> Counsel to Chevron Oil
>>>
>>> Boxer Calls For Oil Price Investigation
>>>
>>> Apr. 13 (ABC7) - It was a pretty startling admission from the
>>> oil industry -- the head of a major refinery gleefully pronouncing
>>> that tight supplies were driving up prices and profits. After
>>> reviewing an[/color][/color]
> ABC7 News[color=green][color=darkred]
>>> tape of that event, California Senator Barbara Boxer is now calling
>>> for an investigation. Senator Boxer has fired off a letter accusing
>>> the[/color][/color]
> oil[color=green][color=darkred]
>>> industry of "making windfall profits on the backs of consumers."
>>> ABC7's Mark Matthews reports.
>>>
>>>
>>> The gasoline industry tells us that high prices are the
>>> product of the market place - supply and demand. We believe that if
>>> there is a big demand, suppliers will ramp up, and if the market
>>> works like it's supposed to, supply will increase and prices will
>>> come down. But that isn't what the nation's largest independent oil
>>> refiner has in mind.
>>>
>>> When Hank Kuchta took the podium last month he had just
>>> received an award for refiner of the year. And his companies stock
>>> is up 50 percent from last year; he told his fellow refiners
>>> business is good and likely to stay that way.
>>>
>>> Hank Kuchta, Premcor (3/10/05): "When you take a look at[/color][/color]
> where the[color=green][color=darkred]
>>> supply demand balance sits worldwide, you certainly come to the
>>> conclusion that we're now finally in a situation where we don't
>>> have a lot of extra supply."
>>>
>>> Kuchta went on to encourage his fellow refiners to keep the
>>> supply demand balance tight.
>>>
>>> Kuchta (3/10/05): "If we go in and we start expanding like
>>> crazy before the demand gets there, that's the shoot yourself in
>>> the foot theory and we'll all be the opposite of geniuses. You pick
>>> the word, but they'll kill us for it, believe me."
>>>
>>> We took the raw video tape of the refiner's speech to
>>> Washington to show to Sentor Barbara Boxer.
>>>
>>> Sen. Barbara Boxer, (D) California: "I'm really angry. I'm
>>> upset that these oil companies, these refiners, they don't care
>>> about anyone but themselves and the bottom line, and I hope this
>>> tape makes them pay a price for this."
>>>
>>> Senator Boxer is sending the video tape we gave her to the
>>> Federal Trade Commission along with a letter to the commissions
>>> president calling on the commission to investigate the refineries
>>> immediately.
>>>
>>> Sen. Boxer: "I think what is important about what you've done
>>> is you got a camera into a room where nobody thought you were, and
>>> therefore, they spoke the truth."
>>>
>>> In the past when we've asked refiners about the price of
>>> gasoline, we've been told they were working as fast as they can,
>>> but there[/color][/color]
> are too few[color=green][color=darkred]
>>> refineries and the environmental regulations are too stiff.
>>>
>>> Dave Fogarty, Western States Petroleum Association: "We're
>>> making as much gasoline as we possibly can in this state."
>>>
>>> Dave Fogarty is a spokesman for the refinery association that
>>> invited us to the conference last month. He doesn't represent Hank
>>> Kuchta's company, but I asked him what he thought about the
>>> refiner's comments.
>>>
>>> Mark Matthews (quoting Kuchta): "If we start expanding like
>>> crazy before the demand gets there that's the shoot yourself in the
>>> foot theory."
>>>
>>> Fogarty: "I can't interpret that. You're going to have to ask
>>> him."
>>>
>>> We put Dave Forgarty on the spot, but he's right, we need to
>>> ask Hank Kuchta. About what he said, his assistant told us today
>>> her boss is traveling, she has no comment. The chairwoman of the of
>>> the Federal Trade Commission was appointed by President Bush. She
>>> used to work for[/color][/color]
> the chief[color=green][color=darkred]
>>> counsel to Chevron Oil.[/color]
>>
>> I'm happy California has her and not us. I really like to watch and
>> listen to her talk though. She's a real actor. Shudda taken up[/color]
> movie[color=green]
>> acting.
>>[/color]
>
> Dbu~, you certainly aren't the brightest bulb in the pack are you?
> Here's a Senator calling for an investigation because oil companies
> are bilking American Taxpayers like you and me, and somehow you have a
> problem with that. Not to engage in name calling, but you sure do act
> like a complete moron..
>
>
> Richard[/color]

He DID miss the point of the article. Maybe he'll post again. ;-)

Mark A wrote:[color=blue]
> "Philip" <1chip-state1@earthlink.n0t> wrote in message
> news:Rcbce.808$V01.554@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...[color=green]
>> [url]http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2005/04/315482.shtml[/url]
>>
>> Boxer Has a Tape
>> author: ABC7
>>
>> Looks like there could be a FTC investigation if Bush Appointee
>> Chairwoman can be budged-She used to work for Chief Counsel to
>> Chevron Oil[/color]
>
> This is ridiculous. It would help an oil refiner to close someone
> else's refinery, but does not help to close their own refinery, even
> if it caused prices to go up for there other refineries.
>
> These idiots need an education in basic micro-economics.
>
> The reason that there are not enough refineries is that no new ones
> have built in the last 30 years in the US because of environmental
> laws and other regulatory legislation.
>
> Why don't all the democrats pool their money and build a refinery
> (lets see if they can get regulatory approvals). Independent
> refineries do exist, they just buy up crude oil on the open market
> from independent oil companies. No problem. Lets see the democrats
> try it. Maybe dems like George Soros or Warren Buffet should build
> some refineries. They have plenty of cash to invest. I believe that
> Bill Gates is also a Democrat.[/color]

The idiot is you. He's and industry strategist (among other things) and you
.... what do you do for a living? The point is, the guy got caught ENDORSING
the further reduction in finished product production as a good way to get
fuel prices higher!

Dbu,~' wrote:[color=blue]
> In article <fKCdnZqTh-Eqz-zfRVn-2g@comcast.com>,
> "Mark A" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Why don't all the democrats pool their money and build a refinery
>> (lets see if they can get regulatory approvals). Independent
>> refineries do exist, they just buy up crude oil on the open market
>> from independent oil companies. No problem. Lets see the democrats
>> try it. Maybe dems like George Soros or Warren Buffet should build
>> some refineries. They have plenty of cash to invest. I believe that
>> Bill Gates is also a Democrat.[/color]
>
> Now I'd love to see old George Soros pony up some serious cash, same
> with Warren Buffet. Perhaps they could sell off a bunch of their
> respective companies and/or stock holdings for the good of our country
> and help lower the oil prices for the rest of us. Come on George and
> Warren lets pitch in. Soros spent a bundle on trying to unseat Bush,
> i would think a few billion would be ok, after all he is a progressive
> Democrat and this is the kind of stuff he preaches.[/color]

Great (sarcasm). A socialist Democrat (isn't that redundant these days?)
owing a refinery. Bank on him becoming a capitalist.

"Philip" <1chip-state1@earthlink.n0t> wrote in message news:hsjce.1075[color=blue]
> The idiot is you. He's and industry strategist (among other things) and
> you ... what do you do for a living? The point is, the guy got caught
> ENDORSING the further reduction in finished product production as a good
> way to get fuel prices higher![/color]
You are the idiot. It may get prices higher, but it won't maximize
profitability of the refining companies. So whether or not it is a good way
to get prices higher is irrelevant. Any idiot knows that if supply is
reduced then prices go higher for anything that is sold. What difference
does it make who says it.

There is an argument that can be made that for a scarce resource like oil,
it is better to reduce supply and raise prices, because there is only so
much product you have available to sell, now and in the future.

But that does not apply to refining capacity. If a day goes by without a
refinery working at full capacity, you can never recover that lost refinery
revenue. It is like a airplane or hotel with an empty seat or empty room.
Once the day goes by, you cannot recover that lost revenue of not operating
at full capacity. This is fundamentally different than a scarce resource
like oil.

Unfortunately Phillip, you and the Democrats don't seem have the
intellectual capacity to understand these basic economic principles.
Actually, the Dems understand it, but they are demagogues trying to make hay
about nothing, because it is easy to fool most of the people most of the
time.

"Philip" <1chip-state1@earthlink.n0t> wrote in message news:osjce.1076[color=blue]
> Great (sarcasm). A socialist Democrat (isn't that redundant these days?)
> owing a refinery. Bank on him becoming a capitalist.
>[/color]
Those guys (buffet, Soros, Gates) would invest in oil exploration/production
or refining (two totally different industries) if they thought they could
make a buck at it. But history of the last 50 years is strewn with people
who have gone completely bankrupt in these industries.

Democrats love to bash the profitability of oil companies, but they never
want to invest themselves. The price of oil hit $38 a barrel in 1981 and
everyone cried foul, but none of the liberals complained in 1986 when it
sunk to $8 a barrel. I wonder why?

This is surprizing, how?

Mark A wrote:
[color=blue]
> "Philip" <1chip-state1@earthlink.n0t> wrote in message
> news:Rcbce.808$V01.554@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>[color=green]
>>[url]http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2005/04/315482.shtml[/url]
>>
>>Boxer Has a Tape
>>author: ABC7
>>
>> Looks like there could be a FTC investigation if Bush Appointee
>>Chairwoman can be budged-She used to work for Chief Counsel to Chevron Oil
>>[/color]
>
>
> This is ridiculous. It would help an oil refiner to close someone else's
> refinery, but does not help to close their own refinery, even if it caused
> prices to go up for there other refineries.
>
> These idiots need an education in basic micro-economics.[/color]

What happens when the suppliers who have a monopoly on a
product decide to not play by the rules? That's right -
we pay reguardless. Theories are theories. This is reality.