Non-Toyota rotors?

99 Avalon, about 53K miles. Had to change front rotors at about 24K
miles because the steering wheel shook when braking at highway speeds.

Now seeing the same symptoms again. I'm thinking of using rotors that
are a little more heavy-duty. Any suggestions? I have heard about
Brembo, are these better or is that just marketing hype?

Also if I do go with non-Toyota rotors, am I forced to go to an
independent shop or will Toyota dealers install these?

"ixat" <ixat2@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:95qt81tt8p58vo7ephuejo8g58f5s25rf3@4ax.com...[color=blue]
> 99 Avalon, about 53K miles. Had to change front rotors at about 24K
> miles because the steering wheel shook when braking at highway speeds.
>
> Now seeing the same symptoms again. I'm thinking of using rotors that
> are a little more heavy-duty. Any suggestions? I have heard about
> Brembo, are these better or is that just marketing hype?[/color]

Any standard rotor will do fine. You can pick some cheap ones up for about
$25 or so from NAPA. Stay away from cross drilled or slotted unless they are
forged that way.
[color=blue]
> Also if I do go with non-Toyota rotors, am I forced to go to an
> independent shop or will Toyota dealers install these?[/color]

They will charge more to install parts that they don't supply. Rotors are
pretty easy to install, if you wanted to do it yourself. I would just find a
small local shop and have them do it.

In article <95qt81tt8p58vo7ephuejo8g58f5s25rf3@4ax.com>,
ixat <ixat2@hotmail.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
> 99 Avalon, about 53K miles. Had to change front rotors at about 24K
> miles because the steering wheel shook when braking at highway speeds.
>
> Now seeing the same symptoms again. I'm thinking of using rotors that
> are a little more heavy-duty. Any suggestions? I have heard about
> Brembo, are these better or is that just marketing hype?[/color]

If you park the car outside in wet weather the rotors will "warp" faster
than if parked under a roof. Fancy aluminum "open" wheels make the
problem worse. All because the rotors are more exposed and rust where
exposed. The "warping" comes from not rusting under the pads.

Brembo makes good high performance brakes. Can't say whether that
applies in your situation.

David Kelly <n4hhe@yahoo.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>In article <95qt81tt8p58vo7ephuejo8g58f5s25rf3@4ax.com>,
> ixat <ixat2@hotmail.com> wrote:
>[color=green]
>> 99 Avalon, about 53K miles. Had to change front rotors at about 24K
>> miles because the steering wheel shook when braking at highway speeds.
>>
>> Now seeing the same symptoms again. I'm thinking of using rotors that
>> are a little more heavy-duty. Any suggestions? I have heard about
>> Brembo, are these better or is that just marketing hype?[/color]
>
>If you park the car outside in wet weather the rotors will "warp" faster
>than if parked under a roof. Fancy aluminum "open" wheels make the
>problem worse. All because the rotors are more exposed and rust where
>exposed. The "warping" comes from not rusting under the pads.
>
>Brembo makes good high performance brakes. Can't say whether that
>applies in your situation.[/color]

Never heard that before, is it true?, I thought warping came from
heating and/or uneven torquing of the studs.
--


-Gord.

"I'm trying to get as old as I can,
and it must be working 'cause I'm
the oldest now that I've ever been"

ixat wrote:
[color=blue]
> 99 Avalon, about 53K miles. Had to change front rotors at about 24K
> miles because the steering wheel shook when braking at highway speeds.
>
> Now seeing the same symptoms again. I'm thinking of using rotors that
> are a little more heavy-duty. Any suggestions? I have heard about
> Brembo, are these better or is that just marketing hype?
>
> Also if I do go with non-Toyota rotors, am I forced to go to an
> independent shop or will Toyota dealers install these?
>[/color]
Your best bet would be to have them machines on the spindle. Use
standard brake pads. High metallic or ceramic will ground the rotors up
and warp them quicker.

--


[url]http://www.rightwingstuff.com[/url]
[url]http://www.gop.org[/url]
[url]http://www.townhall.com[/url]



The Second Amendment Is Americas "Original" Homeland Security!
[url]http://www.nra.org[/url]
[url]http://www.nraila.com[/url]

"Gord Beaman" <gord@islandtelecom.com> wrote in message
news:8ji1919603a5mpf0qai9eu4n52il59vh6h@4ax.com...[color=blue]
> David Kelly <n4hhe@yahoo.com> wrote:
>[color=green]
>>In article <95qt81tt8p58vo7ephuejo8g58f5s25rf3@4ax.com>,
>> ixat <ixat2@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>> 99 Avalon, about 53K miles. Had to change front rotors at about 24K
>>> miles because the steering wheel shook when braking at highway speeds.
>>>
>>> Now seeing the same symptoms again. I'm thinking of using rotors that
>>> are a little more heavy-duty. Any suggestions? I have heard about
>>> Brembo, are these better or is that just marketing hype?[/color]
>>
>>If you park the car outside in wet weather the rotors will "warp" faster
>>than if parked under a roof. Fancy aluminum "open" wheels make the
>>problem worse. All because the rotors are more exposed and rust where
>>exposed. The "warping" comes from not rusting under the pads.
>>
>>Brembo makes good high performance brakes. Can't say whether that
>>applies in your situation.[/color]
>
> Never heard that before, is it true?, I thought warping came from
> heating and/or uneven torquing of the studs.
> --
>
>[/color]
The OP's warpage is not coming from "not rusting under the pads". The
surface rust that forms when parked for a long time gets rubbed off after a
few brake applications.
--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply

In article <e6cad$42914bc2$180fead6$3719@msgid.meganewsservers.com>,
"Ray O" <rokigawa@tristarassociatesDOT.com> wrote:
[color=blue][color=green]
> > Never heard that before, is it true?, I thought warping came from
> > heating and/or uneven torquing of the studs.[/color][/color]

A poorly stress-relieved rotor will change shape after being heated
enough. This is pretty much the same thing as uneven torquing but
internal to the rotor's structure.

Even the best will change shape if one hits a water puddle with hot
brakes because the water will not hit the entire rotor at the same time
evenly.
[color=blue][color=green]
> >[/color]
> The OP's warpage is not coming from "not rusting under the pads". The
> surface rust that forms when parked for a long time gets rubbed off after a
> few brake applications.[/color]

That brake rotor material was converted to rust and rubbed off making
everything that rusted thinner while that which was under the rotor pads
didn't rust is the original thickness. Repeat enough times at random
positions and the effect can cancel out. Trusting to luck that the
rotors are parked in the proper position for each rust cycle doesn't
work very well.

Rusting is far from the only cause of rotor warpage, but is often
ignored.

"Ray O" <rokigawa@tristarassociatesDOT.com> wrote in message
news:e6cad$42914bc2$180fead6$3719@msgid.meganewsservers.com...[color=blue]
>
> "Gord Beaman" <gord@islandtelecom.com> wrote in message
> news:8ji1919603a5mpf0qai9eu4n52il59vh6h@4ax.com...[color=green]
>> David Kelly <n4hhe@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>>In article <95qt81tt8p58vo7ephuejo8g58f5s25rf3@4ax.com>,
>>> ixat <ixat2@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> 99 Avalon, about 53K miles. Had to change front rotors at about 24K
>>>> miles because the steering wheel shook when braking at highway speeds.
>>>>
>>>> Now seeing the same symptoms again. I'm thinking of using rotors that
>>>> are a little more heavy-duty. Any suggestions? I have heard about
>>>> Brembo, are these better or is that just marketing hype?
>>>
>>>If you park the car outside in wet weather the rotors will "warp" faster
>>>than if parked under a roof. Fancy aluminum "open" wheels make the
>>>problem worse. All because the rotors are more exposed and rust where
>>>exposed. The "warping" comes from not rusting under the pads.
>>>
>>>Brembo makes good high performance brakes. Can't say whether that
>>>applies in your situation.[/color]
>>
>> Never heard that before, is it true?, I thought warping came from
>> heating and/or uneven torquing of the studs.
>> --
>>
>>[/color]
> The OP's warpage is not coming from "not rusting under the pads". The
> surface rust that forms when parked for a long time gets rubbed off after
> a few brake applications.
> --[/color]

Anyone care to explain this:
[url]http://img69.echo.cx/img69/2895/rdsc001281ml.jpg[/url]

The build up on the disc (rotor) seemed to be rust, and it was only on the
inside edges.
The car was never left standing for long periods, and infact the pads
weren't grinding away this rust - it was the other way around, the pads were
actually being worn away by it. And the pads weren't soft either, they'd
covered 40,000 miles at this point and still had around a third of their
life left!!

In article <Ef7ke.1399$oT1.1033@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
[email]liberals_are@leaches.com[/email] says...[color=blue]
> ixat wrote:
>[color=green]
> > 99 Avalon, about 53K miles. Had to change front rotors at about 24K
> > miles because the steering wheel shook when braking at highway speeds.
> >
> > Now seeing the same symptoms again. I'm thinking of using rotors that
> > are a little more heavy-duty. Any suggestions? I have heard about
> > Brembo, are these better or is that just marketing hype?
> >
> > Also if I do go with non-Toyota rotors, am I forced to go to an
> > independent shop or will Toyota dealers install these?
> >[/color]
> Your best bet would be to have them machines on the spindle. Use
> standard brake pads. High metallic or ceramic will ground the rotors up
> and warp them quicker.
>
>[/color]
In europe, to be legal, all brake pads must be "E" marked (I've fitted
US imported Akebonos though, who can see a mark on the back of pad
covered by a caliper).
That means they must be
a) no more than 5% more or less effective than standard pads (has really
effected performance aftermarket if you want to stay 100% legal)
b) contain no asbestos (has been in place for many years).

Without Asbestos, to remain within 5% of OEM pads has meant that the pad
compund has had to be hardened. Disc makeup hasn't (normally cast iron).

It means now, where as discs used to last for 100,000 miles, and about
3-5 changes of pads, it's normal for pads to actually wear discs rather
than the other way round, to a much more marked degree, with a set of
discs quite often only lasting 30-40k especially if used in stop start
urban driving.
--
"Sorry Sir, the meatballs are Orf"
The poster formerly known as Skodapilot.
[url]http://www.bouncing-czechs.com[/url]

"Johnny" <n@spam.com> wrote in message
news:42923aff$1_2@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...[color=blue]
> "Ray O" <rokigawa@tristarassociatesDOT.com> wrote in message
> news:e6cad$42914bc2$180fead6$3719@msgid.meganewsservers.com...[color=green]
>>
>> "Gord Beaman" <gord@islandtelecom.com> wrote in message
>> news:8ji1919603a5mpf0qai9eu4n52il59vh6h@4ax.com...[color=darkred]
>>> David Kelly <n4hhe@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>In article <95qt81tt8p58vo7ephuejo8g58f5s25rf3@4ax.com>,
>>>> ixat <ixat2@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> 99 Avalon, about 53K miles. Had to change front rotors at about 24K
>>>>> miles because the steering wheel shook when braking at highway speeds.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now seeing the same symptoms again. I'm thinking of using rotors that
>>>>> are a little more heavy-duty. Any suggestions? I have heard about
>>>>> Brembo, are these better or is that just marketing hype?
>>>>
>>>>If you park the car outside in wet weather the rotors will "warp" faster
>>>>than if parked under a roof. Fancy aluminum "open" wheels make the
>>>>problem worse. All because the rotors are more exposed and rust where
>>>>exposed. The "warping" comes from not rusting under the pads.
>>>>
>>>>Brembo makes good high performance brakes. Can't say whether that
>>>>applies in your situation.
>>>
>>> Never heard that before, is it true?, I thought warping came from
>>> heating and/or uneven torquing of the studs.
>>> --
>>>
>>>[/color]
>> The OP's warpage is not coming from "not rusting under the pads". The
>> surface rust that forms when parked for a long time gets rubbed off after
>> a few brake applications.
>> --[/color]
>
> Anyone care to explain this:
> [url]http://img69.echo.cx/img69/2895/rdsc001281ml.jpg[/url]
>
> The build up on the disc (rotor) seemed to be rust, and it was only on the
> inside edges.
> The car was never left standing for long periods, and infact the pads
> weren't grinding away this rust - it was the other way around, the pads
> were actually being worn away by it. And the pads weren't soft either,
> they'd covered 40,000 miles at this point and still had around a third of
> their life left!![/color]

The rust in the photo is not the surface rust that forms when the vehicle is
parked. The conditions of the rotors was caused by stuck caliper slides.
I hope you cleaned and lubed them with wheel bearing grease or anti-seize
before putting them back together.
--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply

"Ray O" <rokigawa@tristarassociatesDOT.com> wrote in message
news:e195d$4294d6bb$44a4a10d$7457@msgid.meganewsservers.com...[color=blue]
>
> "Johnny" <n@spam.com> wrote in message
> news:42923aff$1_2@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...[color=green]
>>
>> Anyone care to explain this:
>> [url]http://img69.echo.cx/img69/2895/rdsc001281ml.jpg[/url]
>>
>> The build up on the disc (rotor) seemed to be rust, and it was only on
>> the inside edges.
>> The car was never left standing for long periods, and infact the pads
>> weren't grinding away this rust - it was the other way around, the pads
>> were actually being worn away by it. And the pads weren't soft either,
>> they'd covered 40,000 miles at this point and still had around a third of
>> their life left!![/color]
>
> The rust in the photo is not the surface rust that forms when the vehicle
> is parked. The conditions of the rotors was caused by stuck caliper
> slides. I hope you cleaned and lubed them with wheel bearing grease or
> anti-seize before putting them back together.
> --
> Ray O
> correct the return address punctuation to reply
>[/color]
Cheers for the reply.
Never noticed the brakes sticking to be honest. I do know what they feel
like - my Toyota suffered sticking pistons recently, until I changed for
refurbish calipers.
I can't see how that can be caused by sticking calipers either - unless it's
the extreme heat that does it?
I think the rear discs may have suffered the same - I'm not sure, but they
were changed under warranty.