Re: My Honda Paint Job is Lookin BAAD -- Help (Hachiroku?)

I want an answer NOW

Learning Richard wrote:[color=blue]
> I said Hachiroku because I saw on another thread that you had some sort
> of extra-strong, almost paint-eating cleaner you were using on a Matrix
> -- there was something about an old man crapping his pants too, but
> that's not the focus here.
>
> My 208,000 miles and counting 1992 Honda Accord sedan runs like new.
> Cold AC, no warning lights, good power, and generally a supurb LX
> model.
>
> Looks are something different. Working in a big city as I do, there's
> a lot of pollution and general filth that is really starting to eat at
> my car. In fact, a few weeks ago I actually found the beginnings of a
> RUST SPOT * sob *.
>
> I want my dependable Honda, with its titanium white paint job, to look
> as good on the outside as it runs on the inside. Now, I am very leery
> of getting a new paint job.
>
> Could I use that extra-strong cleaner to clear away the almost-embedded
> grease/oil stains from weekend mechanics such as myself , VOC chemical
> stains, etc without seriously ruining my paint job? There are numerous
> nicks I suppose from road tar, rocks, etc ... but don't ya think if I
> cleaned the hell out of it then put a really strong coat of wax on it,
> that it would still look alot better? Also, any ideas for patching
> those miniscule little chips and those dirty looking wrinkle features?
> And how do I exterminate that confounded little rust spot I found near
> the rear wheel well?
>
> I wanna push at least 500,000 mi before I abandon this dependable
> lady... and she just laughs at me when I take her to the car wash
> (hand wash, laser, or brush... I'm such a DIY freak) help!![/color]

Waiving the right to remain silent, "Learning Richard"
<learningrichard@gmail.com> said:
[color=blue]
> I want an answer NOW[/color]

Honda paint (at least the paint from Japan) has always sucked.

--
Larry J. - Remove spamtrap in ALLCAPS to e-mail

The United States is the greatest country in the world..!
Twenty-five million illegal aliens can't be wrong.

"Learning Richard" <learningrichard@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1118435290.875431.200430@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...[color=blue][color=green]
>> And how do I exterminate that confounded little rust spot I found near
>> the rear wheel well?[/color][/color]

That spot you found is rust most likely eating its way out, not in. Water
gets into the arch fold and starts rust on the inside. The only treatment is
to reseal the fold with silicon on the outside, grind out the spot and
either weld or fill with bondo, AND get into the inside wheel arch to treat
the rust there. There'll be more than you see on the outside.

Stewart DIBBS

Larry J. wrote:[color=blue]
> Waiving the right to remain silent, "Learning Richard"
> <learningrichard@gmail.com> said:
>[color=green]
> > I want an answer NOW[/color]
>
> Honda paint (at least the paint from Japan) has always sucked.
>[/color]

Brilliant solution!

Stewart DIBBS wrote:[color=blue]
> "Learning Richard" <learningrichard@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1118435290.875431.200430@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...[color=green][color=darkred]
> >> And how do I exterminate that confounded little rust spot I found near
> >> the rear wheel well?[/color][/color]
>
> That spot you found is rust most likely eating its way out, not in. Water
> gets into the arch fold and starts rust on the inside. The only treatment is
> to reseal the fold with silicon on the outside, grind out the spot and
> either weld or fill with bondo, AND get into the inside wheel arch to treat
> the rust there. There'll be more than you see on the outside.
>[/color]

Would it make more sense to do all of that, or to cruise the local
junkyards / ebay for those parts?

On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 13:28:10 -0700, Learning Richard wrote:
[color=blue]
> I want an answer NOW[/color]

OK! OK! Whew!

Somehow, your original post got lost, and all I saw today was this RE:
My server must have dropped it somehow.

At any rate, I don't know what we use!!! It is from a specialty chemical
co we get our detailing supplies from, and isn't available as a Consumer
Commodity.

The Next Best Thing I can think of; it feels similar, smells similar and
only differes by color AFAIK is made by Castrol, it's called Super Clean
or something like that; it's $5-6 for a gallon, and it's purple.

DON'T USE IT FULL STRENGTH!!!! Maximum 50/50; I'd start even less, like
1/3 cleaner to 2/3 water. You're always better off starting as WEAK as you
can and working your way stronger if you need to. While you're out buying
the stuff (if you're one of those dead set against Wal-Mart, they have it
at AutoZone and CarQuest) get yourself a quart spray bottle with an
adjustable sprayer and some good, regular car wash and a good wax like
Meguire's.

Mix the stuff MAX 50/50. Wet the car like a good wash, and spray ONE area.
Spray it good. DON'T LET IT DRY!!!!!!!! Wash the area with the regular
car wash; shake the cloth/rag/sheepskin before dunking it again...you
don't want to contaminate the wash water. Do another section and wash off.
When washing is will suds up; let it get good and sudsy. Rinse thoroughly
after every section. When you're done washing the car, dry it well and
apply the wax.

Two things: THIS ONLY WORKS WELL WITH WHITE!!!!
and YOUR PAINT WILL BE NOTICEABLY DULL AFTER WASHING!!!

Oh, one more thing....DON'T shit your pants!!! ;)
[color=blue]
>
> Learning Richard wrote:[color=green]
>> I said Hachiroku because I saw on another thread that you had some sort
>> of extra-strong, almost paint-eating cleaner you were using on a Matrix
>> -- there was something about an old man crapping his pants too, but
>> that's not the focus here.
>>
>> My 208,000 miles and counting 1992 Honda Accord sedan runs like new.
>> Cold AC, no warning lights, good power, and generally a supurb LX
>> model.
>>
>> Looks are something different. Working in a big city as I do, there's
>> a lot of pollution and general filth that is really starting to eat at
>> my car. In fact, a few weeks ago I actually found the beginnings of a
>> RUST SPOT * sob *.
>>
>> I want my dependable Honda, with its titanium white paint job, to look
>> as good on the outside as it runs on the inside. Now, I am very leery
>> of getting a new paint job.
>>
>> Could I use that extra-strong cleaner to clear away the almost-embedded
>> grease/oil stains from weekend mechanics such as myself , VOC chemical
>> stains, etc without seriously ruining my paint job? There are numerous
>> nicks I suppose from road tar, rocks, etc ... but don't ya think if I
>> cleaned the hell out of it then put a really strong coat of wax on it,
>> that it would still look alot better? Also, any ideas for patching
>> those miniscule little chips and those dirty looking wrinkle features?
>> And how do I exterminate that confounded little rust spot I found near
>> the rear wheel well?[/color][/color]

Live with it? ALL Hondas this vintage have this. You could sand/grind it
down, fill it and get some Dupli-color at AutoZone. If the color is, say
2C3 CC, this means a Clear Coat has to be applied to match properly.
Luckily, white is a fairly easy match.

The OTHER thing you could do, if you're leery of using such a harsh
cleaner is buffing the car. You can get a good finish restorer at any
parts store; I prefer 3M Mircrofinish Glaze (actually, if you can find it
get Fill 'n Glaze, 3M P/N 05977. It was discontinued 2 years ago but some
places still have it.) If the oxidation is light enough you can apply it
by hand; the wetter it is, the lighter the effect, as it begins to dry it
begins to cut harder. Rub it on, rub in one direction then allow it to dry
and wipe it off. If this works, great. If not, you may have to buff it
with a rotary buffer. This will remove a lot of oxidation without damaging
the paint, in fact it will make it GLOW! If you are truly a Learning
Richard and not a Lazy Richard (or are perhaps too old to be out farting
around with cars?) this method is the best, but be prepared to spend 6-8
hours doing this! And I always start with the LEAST drastic method first,
this would be a wash and a light polishing with the 3M stuff. If this
doesn't work haul out a buffer and put a little Fill 'n Glaze on the car
and buff it out. Use the Castrol stuff as a last resort!

Good luck...
[color=blue][color=green]
>>
>> I wanna push at least 500,000 mi before I abandon this dependable
>> lady... and she just laughs at me when I take her to the car wash
>> (hand wash, laser, or brush... I'm such a DIY freak) help!![/color][/color]

OK, then, get out the rags and buy the 3M!!! See you Sunday night, all
worn out!

--
The Relentless Pursuit Of Conception...

On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 15:58:51 -0700, Learning Richard wrote:
[color=blue]
>
>
> Stewart DIBBS wrote:[color=green]
>> "Learning Richard" <learningrichard@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1118435290.875431.200430@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...[color=darkred]
>> >> And how do I exterminate that confounded little rust spot I found near
>> >> the rear wheel well?[/color]
>>
>> That spot you found is rust most likely eating its way out, not in. Water
>> gets into the arch fold and starts rust on the inside. The only treatment is
>> to reseal the fold with silicon on the outside, grind out the spot and
>> either weld or fill with bondo, AND get into the inside wheel arch to treat
>> the rust there. There'll be more than you see on the outside.
>>[/color]
>
> Would it make more sense to do all of that, or to cruise the local
> junkyards / ebay for those parts?[/color]

Yer talking right around the rear wheel, right? This means buying a 1/4
panel and welding it in! And anything in a YunkJard is probably rusted as
bad or on it's way! Grinding, filling and sealing is the easier method.
How are you at sculpting or staying between the lines?

--
The Relentless Pursuit Of Conception...

hachiroku wrote:[color=blue]
> On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 13:28:10 -0700, Learning Richard wrote:
>[color=green]
> > I want an answer NOW[/color]
>
> OK! OK! Whew![/color]

Thank you for the verbose answer. Just what I wanted to know. This is
the first weekend I have free in a month -- I've been Mr. Mom for two
weeks while my wife helped attend to some of her family business from
140 miles away.

Believe me, I'm looking forward to a day of taking care of the old
Honda. If I do a good job (and I'm gonna have to study your answer)
I'll take a few snapshots and post them online.

I'm leaving the rest below for any wayward googlers with the same
problem.
[color=blue]
>
> Somehow, your original post got lost, and all I saw today was this RE:
> My server must have dropped it somehow.
>
> At any rate, I don't know what we use!!! It is from a specialty chemical
> co we get our detailing supplies from, and isn't available as a Consumer
> Commodity.
>
> The Next Best Thing I can think of; it feels similar, smells similar and
> only differes by color AFAIK is made by Castrol, it's called Super Clean
> or something like that; it's $5-6 for a gallon, and it's purple.
>
> DON'T USE IT FULL STRENGTH!!!! Maximum 50/50; I'd start even less, like
> 1/3 cleaner to 2/3 water. You're always better off starting as WEAK as you
> can and working your way stronger if you need to. While you're out buying
> the stuff (if you're one of those dead set against Wal-Mart, they have it
> at AutoZone and CarQuest) get yourself a quart spray bottle with an
> adjustable sprayer and some good, regular car wash and a good wax like
> Meguire's.
>
> Mix the stuff MAX 50/50. Wet the car like a good wash, and spray ONE area.
> Spray it good. DON'T LET IT DRY!!!!!!!! Wash the area with the regular
> car wash; shake the cloth/rag/sheepskin before dunking it again...you
> don't want to contaminate the wash water. Do another section and wash off.
> When washing is will suds up; let it get good and sudsy. Rinse thoroughly
> after every section. When you're done washing the car, dry it well and
> apply the wax.
>
> Two things: THIS ONLY WORKS WELL WITH WHITE!!!!
> and YOUR PAINT WILL BE NOTICEABLY DULL AFTER WASHING!!!
>
> Oh, one more thing....DON'T shit your pants!!! ;)
>[color=green]
> >
> > Learning Richard wrote:[color=darkred]
> >> I said Hachiroku because I saw on another thread that you had some sort
> >> of extra-strong, almost paint-eating cleaner you were using on a Matrix
> >> -- there was something about an old man crapping his pants too, but
> >> that's not the focus here.
> >>
> >> My 208,000 miles and counting 1992 Honda Accord sedan runs like new.
> >> Cold AC, no warning lights, good power, and generally a supurb LX
> >> model.
> >>
> >> Looks are something different. Working in a big city as I do, there's
> >> a lot of pollution and general filth that is really starting to eat at
> >> my car. In fact, a few weeks ago I actually found the beginnings of a
> >> RUST SPOT * sob *.
> >>
> >> I want my dependable Honda, with its titanium white paint job, to look
> >> as good on the outside as it runs on the inside. Now, I am very leery
> >> of getting a new paint job.
> >>
> >> Could I use that extra-strong cleaner to clear away the almost-embedded
> >> grease/oil stains from weekend mechanics such as myself , VOC chemical
> >> stains, etc without seriously ruining my paint job? There are numerous
> >> nicks I suppose from road tar, rocks, etc ... but don't ya think if I
> >> cleaned the hell out of it then put a really strong coat of wax on it,
> >> that it would still look alot better? Also, any ideas for patching
> >> those miniscule little chips and those dirty looking wrinkle features?
> >> And how do I exterminate that confounded little rust spot I found near
> >> the rear wheel well?[/color][/color]
>
> Live with it? ALL Hondas this vintage have this. You could sand/grind it
> down, fill it and get some Dupli-color at AutoZone. If the color is, say
> 2C3 CC, this means a Clear Coat has to be applied to match properly.
> Luckily, white is a fairly easy match.
>
> The OTHER thing you could do, if you're leery of using such a harsh
> cleaner is buffing the car. You can get a good finish restorer at any
> parts store; I prefer 3M Mircrofinish Glaze (actually, if you can find it
> get Fill 'n Glaze, 3M P/N 05977. It was discontinued 2 years ago but some
> places still have it.) If the oxidation is light enough you can apply it
> by hand; the wetter it is, the lighter the effect, as it begins to dry it
> begins to cut harder. Rub it on, rub in one direction then allow it to dry
> and wipe it off. If this works, great. If not, you may have to buff it
> with a rotary buffer. This will remove a lot of oxidation without damaging
> the paint, in fact it will make it GLOW! If you are truly a Learning
> Richard and not a Lazy Richard (or are perhaps too old to be out farting
> around with cars?) this method is the best, but be prepared to spend 6-8
> hours doing this! And I always start with the LEAST drastic method first,
> this would be a wash and a light polishing with the 3M stuff. If this
> doesn't work haul out a buffer and put a little Fill 'n Glaze on the car
> and buff it out. Use the Castrol stuff as a last resort!
>
> Good luck...
>[color=green][color=darkred]
> >>
> >> I wanna push at least 500,000 mi before I abandon this dependable
> >> lady... and she just laughs at me when I take her to the car wash
> >> (hand wash, laser, or brush... I'm such a DIY freak) help!![/color][/color]
>
> OK, then, get out the rags and buy the 3M!!! See you Sunday night, all
> worn out!
>
> --
> The Relentless Pursuit Of Conception...[/color]

"Learning Richard" <learningrichard@gmail.com> wrote in
news:1118444331.447587.232440@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:
[color=blue]
>
>
> Stewart DIBBS wrote:[color=green]
>> "Learning Richard" <learningrichard@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1118435290.875431.200430@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...[color=darkred]
>> >> And how do I exterminate that confounded little rust spot I found
>> >> near the rear wheel well?[/color]
>>
>> That spot you found is rust most likely eating its way out, not in.
>> Water gets into the arch fold and starts rust on the inside. The only
>> treatment is to reseal the fold with silicon on the outside, grind
>> out the spot and either weld or fill with bondo, AND get into the
>> inside wheel arch to treat the rust there. There'll be more than you
>> see on the outside.
>>[/color]
>
> Would it make more sense to do all of that, or to cruise the local
> junkyards / ebay for those parts?
>[/color]


I seem to have come in late here. My news provider does not have the
original posts in this thread.

I gather the rust you speak of is at the rear of the rear wheel arch, right
where it meets the bumper skin.

If so, this rust is fatal and you will never get rid of it. The rust starts
from the INSIDE. There are at least four panels welded together at this
location, and the combination of pinchwelds and enclosed surfaces means
lots of condensation and rain collecting there.

By the time you see it, the rust has taken permanent hold. You can do
whatever you like on the outside, but it will ALWAYS come back. This is
true for any vehicle with similar construction. Repair is a waste of money
and time.

The solution?
[url]www.rustcheck.com[/url]
[url]www.krown.com[/url]
From NEW.
Odd that this is unknown to Americans and Britons, despite the astonishing
efficacy of the treatment. It costs $110Cdn per year, but by God it works.
Believe you me.
[url]http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/readersrides/tegger/[/url]
Except for the hood and roof (stone chips) and left front fender, that's
all original paint you see. 14 years and almost 250K miles.

--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
[url]www.tegger.com/hondafaq/[/url]

TeGGeR® wrote:[color=blue]
> "Learning Richard" <learningrichard@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:1118444331.447587.232440@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:
>[color=green]
> >
> >
> > Stewart DIBBS wrote:[color=darkred]
> >> "Learning Richard" <learningrichard@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >> news:1118435290.875431.200430@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >> >> And how do I exterminate that confounded little rust spot I found
> >> >> near the rear wheel well?
> >>
> >> That spot you found is rust most likely eating its way out, not in.
> >> Water gets into the arch fold and starts rust on the inside. The only
> >> treatment is to reseal the fold with silicon on the outside, grind
> >> out the spot and either weld or fill with bondo, AND get into the
> >> inside wheel arch to treat the rust there. There'll be more than you
> >> see on the outside.
> >>[/color]
> >
> > Would it make more sense to do all of that, or to cruise the local
> > junkyards / ebay for those parts?
> >[/color]
>
>
> I seem to have come in late here. My news provider does not have the
> original posts in this thread.
>
> I gather the rust you speak of is at the rear of the rear wheel arch, right
> where it meets the bumper skin.
>
> If so, this rust is fatal and you will never get rid of it. The rust starts
> from the INSIDE. There are at least four panels welded together at this
> location, and the combination of pinchwelds and enclosed surfaces means
> lots of condensation and rain collecting there.
>
> By the time you see it, the rust has taken permanent hold. You can do
> whatever you like on the outside, but it will ALWAYS come back. This is
> true for any vehicle with similar construction. Repair is a waste of money
> and time.
>
> The solution?
> [url]www.rustcheck.com[/url]
> [url]www.krown.com[/url]
> From NEW.
> Odd that this is unknown to Americans and Britons, despite the astonishing
> efficacy of the treatment. It costs $110Cdn per year, but by God it works.
> Believe you me.
> [url]http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/readersrides/tegger/[/url]
> Except for the hood and roof (stone chips) and left front fender, that's
> all original paint you see. 14 years and almost 250K miles.
>[/color]

Wow, very nice condition. My car isn't exactly about to fall apart on
the outside -- aside from the little rust spot (I think I'm the only
one who can see it right now) the body is smooth, one tiny ding on a
door and the stone chips which I really wish I could get rid of...

Can't wait to get down with that 3M stuff Hachiroku recommended on
Sunday... I'll post pics if it goes well. Meanwhile I'm going to check
into those rusty links you posted ;)

Tx

TeGGeR® wrote:[color=blue]
>
> [url]http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/readersrides/tegger/[/url]
> Except for the hood and roof (stone chips) and left front fender, that's
> all original paint you see. 14 years and almost 250K miles.
>
> --
> TeGGeR®
>[/color]

[url]http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/readersrides/tegger/91670006.jpg[/url]

Yikes... is that a seat cover I see? That car reminds me of my old
1986 Honda Accord -- made it to 276,000 before I acquired my '92 Accord
and gave her away.

Those model year Acuras are still head turners.

"Learning Richard" <learningrichard@gmail.com> wrote in
news:1118459379.192504.13800@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
[color=blue]
>
>
> TeGGeR® wrote:[color=green]
>>
>> [url]http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/readersrides/tegger/[/url]
>> Except for the hood and roof (stone chips) and left front fender, that's
>> all original paint you see. 14 years and almost 250K miles.
>>[/color]
>
>
> [url]http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/readersrides/tegger/91670006.jpg[/url]
>
> Yikes... is that a seat cover I see?[/color]


Yep. Better that than have the outside bolster wear through. That seat is
brand-new under the cover. So said the appraiser, too. Today I finally got
the report, but the appraiser made a few mistakes, so it's going to be a
few days before I have a final report with corrections. Will post it when I
get it.


[color=blue]
> That car reminds me of my old
> 1986 Honda Accord -- made it to 276,000 before I acquired my '92 Accord
> and gave her away.
>
> Those model year Acuras are still head turners.
>
>[/color]


I'm up to 248,022 miles as of today. 2K per quart of oil. Just passed smog
for the third time with no work needed.
[url]http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/91_integra_emissions.html[/url]


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
[url]www.tegger.com/hondafaq/[/url]

Learning Richard wrote:
[color=blue]
> I want an answer NOW
>
>[/color]

Demanding aren't we?

People who use this tone are usually bad bosses or poorly raise
children. Neither gets rewarded with prompt answer. I have found I get
far better results by asking nicely and not demanding service
immediately. I really hope you don't go and demand service in this
manner at the Honda dealer.

ma_twain wrote:[color=blue]
> Learning Richard wrote:
>[color=green]
> > I want an answer NOW
> >
> >[/color]
>
> Demanding aren't we?
>
> People who use this tone are usually bad bosses or poorly raise
> children. Neither gets rewarded with prompt answer. I have found I get
> far better results by asking nicely and not demanding service
> immediately. I really hope you don't go and demand service in this
> manner at the Honda dealer.
>[/color]

This is a news group, not a retail Honda outlet.

HTH.

On Sat, 11 Jun 2005 02:51:02 +0000, TeGGeR® wrote:
[color=blue]
> "Learning Richard" <learningrichard@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:1118444331.447587.232440@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:
>[color=green]
>>
>>
>> Stewart DIBBS wrote:[color=darkred]
>>> "Learning Richard" <learningrichard@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:1118435290.875431.200430@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>> >> And how do I exterminate that confounded little rust spot I found
>>> >> near the rear wheel well?
>>>
>>> That spot you found is rust most likely eating its way out, not in.
>>> Water gets into the arch fold and starts rust on the inside. The only
>>> treatment is to reseal the fold with silicon on the outside, grind
>>> out the spot and either weld or fill with bondo, AND get into the
>>> inside wheel arch to treat the rust there. There'll be more than you
>>> see on the outside.
>>>[/color]
>>
>> Would it make more sense to do all of that, or to cruise the local
>> junkyards / ebay for those parts?
>>[/color]
>
>
> I seem to have come in late here. My news provider does not have the
> original posts in this thread.
>
> I gather the rust you speak of is at the rear of the rear wheel arch, right
> where it meets the bumper skin.
>
> If so, this rust is fatal and you will never get rid of it. The rust starts
> from the INSIDE. There are at least four panels welded together at this
> location, and the combination of pinchwelds and enclosed surfaces means
> lots of condensation and rain collecting there.
>
> By the time you see it, the rust has taken permanent hold. You can do
> whatever you like on the outside, but it will ALWAYS come back. This is
> true for any vehicle with similar construction. Repair is a waste of money
> and time.
>
> The solution?
> [url]www.rustcheck.com[/url]
> [url]www.krown.com[/url]
> From NEW.
> Odd that this is unknown to Americans and Britons, despite the astonishing
> efficacy of the treatment. It costs $110Cdn per year, but by God it works.
> Believe you me.
> [url]http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/readersrides/tegger/[/url]
> Except for the hood and roof (stone chips) and left front fender, that's
> all original paint you see. 14 years and almost 250K miles.[/color]

It probably has something to do with VOC contents, certain chemicals
banned in the US or the fact that Rusty Jones and Ziebart went belly-up
'cause their stuff just didn't work and us down here just aren't buying it
any more.

Where can I get some Cosmoline...

--
The Relentless Pursuit Of Conception...