Tire size on the echo...

I would like to go alittle wider tire width ( was told more stable of a ride
in gusty winds ), but will it turn without rubbing the inner wheelwell .
I've got an '01 ,want to go to 185-60-14 . What advantage's if any would I
really get... thank's for your reply

First, look in the owner's manual. It will tell what other sizes Toyota
approves of for your car.

Second, go to tirerack.com and check out their tire education sections.
It might take a bit of poking to find them, but their articles in
general are terrific and they have specific articles that go into
detail about the advantages, disadvantages of "supersizing" your Echo.

Indeed, I believe if you enter your car information into their "tire
finder" it will actually pull up the OEM tires for your car, as well as
a couple of other size options that you could consider.

The primary factor with a larger tire is that you will see a decrease
in gas mileage, an increase in traction and an increase in the actual
cost of the tires ;>)

You didn't tell us what size you have now.

The numbers you gave us mean the following,

185
This is the width of the tread.

60
This is the "aspect ratio". It defines the sidewall height as 60% of the
tread width. In your case, 185 X 60% = 111mm. Your sidewalls measure 111mm,
so the total diameter of your tire is 23 inches. 111mm = 4.5 inches, so 4.5
+ 4.5 + 14 = 23.

14
Rim diameter. Any tire you buy must be a 14 or you have to buy new rims at
the same time. the rims have another number that describes the width of the
rim, I don't know what it is for an Echo, but I'll make a guess that it is
5.5 or 6. If your tires are too wide, then they will not fit the rims
either, but it would be difficult get a tire that was too wide and still be
a 14.






"odyssey" <odyssey@nothanks.com> wrote in message
news:s4Yre.4764$eM6.2329@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...[color=blue]
> I would like to go alittle wider tire width ( was told more stable of a[/color]
ride[color=blue]
> in gusty winds ), but will it turn without rubbing the inner wheelwell .
> I've got an '01 ,want to go to 185-60-14 . What advantage's if any would I
> really get... thank's for your reply
>
>[/color]

odyssey wrote:[color=blue]
> I would like to go alittle wider tire width ( was told more stable of a ride
> in gusty winds ), but will it turn without rubbing the inner wheelwell .
> I've got an '01 ,want to go to 185-60-14 . What advantage's if any would I
> really get... thank's for your reply
>[/color]

I went up to the "premium" size on my 95 Corolla, after verifying in
the glovebox owner's manual and visiting Tirerack.com. Got a set of
Pirelli P400s, which had the top ranking in their class on
Consumerreports.com. The difference is amazing. Smoother ride, better
handling, and the tires just look better on the car.

Tires were only $53 a piece for 185-65-14 plus shipping from
tirerack.com. They shipped right to my mechanic in 3 days. Came with
a decent speed rating and healthy warranty even. I'd recommend looking
at the Pirelli P400s for the price and quality.

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 15:47:36 +0000, odyssey wrote:
[color=blue]
> I would like to go alittle wider tire width ( was told more stable of a ride
> in gusty winds ), but will it turn without rubbing the inner wheelwell .
> I've got an '01 ,want to go to 185-60-14 . What advantage's if any would I
> really get... thank's for your reply[/color]

I had a '95 Tercel, which is basically the same car. When I bought it from
it's second owner (bought "her" from "her" second onwer, who had named
"her" Isabella!) it had the stock 155/80-13's on it. I had a set of 14"
rims that fit perfectly EXCEPT for clearing the calipers. Oooops...

So, I found in an older Corolla I had bought for parts, a set of 4
185/60-13's in the hatch. I mounted them on the Tercel rims.

I will tell you this: you will run out of engine LONG before you run out
of tire!!! The thing ran like it was on rails. Cornering increased
dramatically! I remember I was getting on an on-ramp with another Tercel
behind me with the stock size tires, and we had both been running down a
secondary highway at about 60MPH, so the driver of the other Tercel was
not afraid of a little speed. On the on ramp, a sweeping right-hander with
a 'pinch' at the end I left the other driver in the dust!!! I was doing
about 45 or so with no loss of tire contact at all; no squealing, etc.

This size is still available. And it is close enough to the original
profile that the speedometer is only off by about 1/4MPH. And, if you look
REAL hard, you might still find some 185/55-13's hanging around somewhere
which will handle even better than the 60 series.
--
The Relentless Pursuit Of Conception...

"hachiroku" <Trueno@ae86.gts> wrote in message
news:b%1se.13793$ej1.10731@trndny09...

<snipped>
[color=blue]
> On the on ramp, a sweeping right-hander with
> a 'pinch' at the end I left the other driver in the dust!!![/color]

Are you talking about those decreasing-radius exit ramps that seem to be
unique to Mass? They are fun in a sporty car but I noticed that a lot of
people apply brakes while they are turning, which make for some exciting
attitude adjustments!

I remember riding with a co-worker (to protect the guilty, we'll call him
Moe) on the on-ramp near our office. We were being followed closely at
about 45-50 MPH when we hit the on the on-ramp by another co-worker (to
protect the guiltier, we'll call him Curly). Moe had actual racing
instruction and experience, and while Curly would talk about yaw, pitch,
roll, yadda, yadda, yadda, I don't think he had any actual competition
experience. Moe was driving a 4X4 van (the first generation that looked
like a 2-slice toaster from the side) and Curly was driving a Cressida. In
theory, the more powerful Cressida with IRS should easily catch up and
out-handle the top-heavy, live axle, 4-cylinder van, but Moe in the van was
leaving Curly in the Cressida in the dust on the decreasing radius on-ramp.
We could see Curly's look of embarrassment that a lowly 4 banger van was
leaving his straight 6 Cressida in the dust.

Moe looked over his shoulder, saw traffic coming, and in order to have more
time to accelerate while merging, gives the parking brake a quick pull to
bleed off speed while still on the gas to keep RPM up, corrects the steering
wheel, and smoothly merges on to the highway. Since the brake lights in the
van didn't come on when the parking brake was applied, Curly quickly caught
up a LOT quicker than he expected and nails his brakes to avoid rear-ending
us. As you can imagine, standing on the brakes at 45-50 MPH on a decreasing
radius ramp will put the car sideways. In our mirrors, all we saw was
a**holes and elbows as Curly worked on his yaw control. Luckily, Curly
didn't hit anything and so he avoided having to explain how he got his shiny
company car Cressida wrecked while trying to keep up with a van with a
reputation for not being able to get out of its own way!
--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 18:17:12 -0500, Ray O wrote:
[color=blue]
> "hachiroku" <Trueno@ae86.gts> wrote in message
> news:b%1se.13793$ej1.10731@trndny09...
>
> <snipped>
>[color=green]
>> On the on ramp, a sweeping right-hander with
>> a 'pinch' at the end I left the other driver in the dust!!![/color]
>
> Are you talking about those decreasing-radius exit ramps that seem to be
> unique to Mass? They are fun in a sporty car but I noticed that a lot of
> people apply brakes while they are turning, which make for some exciting
> attitude adjustments![/color]

Yeah, man, those are the ones! And remember, we are also the Rotary King
of the US, too. All other states abandon them ('roundabouts' for the
non-US participants) and Mass doubles the number of them in the state!
[color=blue]
>
> I remember riding with a co-worker (to protect the guilty, we'll call him
> Moe) on the on-ramp near our office. We were being followed closely at
> about 45-50 MPH when we hit the on the on-ramp by another co-worker (to
> protect the guiltier, we'll call him Curly). Moe had actual racing
> instruction and experience, and while Curly would talk about yaw, pitch,
> roll, yadda, yadda, yadda, I don't think he had any actual competition
> experience. Moe was driving a 4X4 van (the first generation that looked
> like a 2-slice toaster from the side) and Curly was driving a Cressida. In
> theory, the more powerful Cressida with IRS should easily catch up and
> out-handle the top-heavy, live axle, 4-cylinder van, but Moe in the van was
> leaving Curly in the Cressida in the dust on the decreasing radius on-ramp.
> We could see Curly's look of embarrassment that a lowly 4 banger van was
> leaving his straight 6 Cressida in the dust.
>
> Moe looked over his shoulder, saw traffic coming, and in order to have more
> time to accelerate while merging, gives the parking brake a quick pull to
> bleed off speed while still on the gas to keep RPM up, corrects the steering
> wheel, and smoothly merges on to the highway. Since the brake lights in the
> van didn't come on when the parking brake was applied, Curly quickly caught
> up a LOT quicker than he expected and nails his brakes to avoid rear-ending
> us. As you can imagine, standing on the brakes at 45-50 MPH on a decreasing
> radius ramp will put the car sideways. In our mirrors, all we saw was
> a**holes and elbows as Curly worked on his yaw control. Luckily, Curly
> didn't hit anything and so he avoided having to explain how he got his shiny
> company car Cressida wrecked while trying to keep up with a van with a
> reputation for not being able to get out of its own way![/color]

And you were Larry?

Man, I LOVED those vans! I almost bought a white 4x4 last summer, arranged
the price, had the cash and the dude never came back! I guess, since I was
so eager, he decided he actually had a good vehicle, 'cause I still see
him tooling around in it.

--
The Relentless Pursuit Of Conception...

hachiroku wrote:[color=blue]
> On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 18:17:12 -0500, Ray O wrote:
>[color=green]
> > "hachiroku" <Trueno@ae86.gts> wrote in message
> > news:b%1se.13793$ej1.10731@trndny09...
> >
> > <snipped>
> >[color=darkred]
> >> On the on ramp, a sweeping right-hander with
> >> a 'pinch' at the end I left the other driver in the dust!!![/color]
> >
> > Are you talking about those decreasing-radius exit ramps that seem to be
> > unique to Mass? They are fun in a sporty car but I noticed that a lot of
> > people apply brakes while they are turning, which make for some exciting
> > attitude adjustments![/color]
>
> Yeah, man, those are the ones! And remember, we are also the Rotary King
> of the US, too. All other states abandon them ('roundabouts' for the
> non-US participants) and Mass doubles the number of them in the state!
>[/color]

Are those the same things as traffic circles? Actual circular roads
with turnoffs for various directions, placed at highway exits? We got
'em in MD. My daughter always screams for me to take a couple of
orbits on them before we get off to where we were actually going.

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 18:27:08 -0700, Learning Richard wrote:
[color=blue]
>
>
> hachiroku wrote:[color=green]
>> On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 18:17:12 -0500, Ray O wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>> > "hachiroku" <Trueno@ae86.gts> wrote in message
>> > news:b%1se.13793$ej1.10731@trndny09...
>> >
>> > <snipped>
>> >
>> >> On the on ramp, a sweeping right-hander with
>> >> a 'pinch' at the end I left the other driver in the dust!!!
>> >
>> > Are you talking about those decreasing-radius exit ramps that seem to be
>> > unique to Mass? They are fun in a sporty car but I noticed that a lot of
>> > people apply brakes while they are turning, which make for some exciting
>> > attitude adjustments![/color]
>>
>> Yeah, man, those are the ones! And remember, we are also the Rotary King
>> of the US, too. All other states abandon them ('roundabouts' for the
>> non-US participants) and Mass doubles the number of them in the state!
>>[/color]
>
> Are those the same things as traffic circles? Actual circular roads
> with turnoffs for various directions, placed at highway exits? We got
> 'em in MD. My daughter always screams for me to take a couple of
> orbits on them before we get off to where we were actually going.[/color]

As fast as possible!!!

The #1 dumbest thing I ever saw was a woman in a BMW in a construction
zone, left-hand lane on a 3-lane highway, ignore every single "Left Lane
Closed XXX Feet", and continue on down to the VERY LAST CONE before
merging right. Problem was it was rush hour and NOBODY let her merge.

This was a close run to beat out what is my absolute all-time favourite
dumb-ass driver: The one who BACKED UP on a rotary 'cause she missed the
exit!!!

--
The Relentless Pursuit Of Conception...

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 15:47:36 GMT, "odyssey" <odyssey@nothanks.com>
wrote:
[color=blue]
>I would like to go alittle wider tire width ( was told more stable of a ride
>in gusty winds ), but will it turn without rubbing the inner wheelwell .
>I've got an '01 ,want to go to 185-60-14 . What advantage's if any would I
>really get... thank's for your reply
>[/color]

I went to 195-55-15 Yokohamas on Fondmetal rims. Very nice, same
diameter as the original so there was no impact on the speedo.


--- Rich
[url]http://richlockyer.tripod.com/[/url]

hachiroku wrote:[color=blue]
> On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 18:27:08 -0700, Learning Richard wrote:
>[color=green]
> >
> >
> > hachiroku wrote:[color=darkred]
> >> On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 18:17:12 -0500, Ray O wrote:
> >>
> >> > "hachiroku" <Trueno@ae86.gts> wrote in message
> >> > news:b%1se.13793$ej1.10731@trndny09...
> >> >
> >> > <snipped>
> >> >
> >> >> On the on ramp, a sweeping right-hander with
> >> >> a 'pinch' at the end I left the other driver in the dust!!!
> >> >
> >> > Are you talking about those decreasing-radius exit ramps that seem to be
> >> > unique to Mass? They are fun in a sporty car but I noticed that a lot of
> >> > people apply brakes while they are turning, which make for some exciting
> >> > attitude adjustments!
> >>
> >> Yeah, man, those are the ones! And remember, we are also the Rotary King
> >> of the US, too. All other states abandon them ('roundabouts' for the
> >> non-US participants) and Mass doubles the number of them in the state!
> >>[/color]
> >
> > Are those the same things as traffic circles? Actual circular roads
> > with turnoffs for various directions, placed at highway exits? We got
> > 'em in MD. My daughter always screams for me to take a couple of
> > orbits on them before we get off to where we were actually going.[/color]
>
> As fast as possible!!!
>
> The #1 dumbest thing I ever saw was a woman in a BMW in a construction
> zone, left-hand lane on a 3-lane highway, ignore every single "Left Lane
> Closed XXX Feet", and continue on down to the VERY LAST CONE before
> merging right. Problem was it was rush hour and NOBODY let her merge.
>[/color]

Well... according to the Maryland Driver's manual, that's exactly what
she was supposed to do.

Hey, I didn't write the manual, just tellin you what it says... no
doubt since Maryland is a Blue State it was written by some Lefty who
was concerned that all traffic lanes get equal treatment... ;-)
[color=blue]
> This was a close run to beat out what is my absolute all-time favourite
> dumb-ass driver: The one who BACKED UP on a rotary 'cause she missed the
> exit!!!
>[/color]

Yeah -- usually some tiny woman in an Expedition who's talking on her
cell ;) See it all the time here (backing up on shoulder lanes of exit
ramps that is)

On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 11:32:13 -0500, Ray O wrote:
[color=blue]
>
> "hachiroku" <Trueno@ae86.gts> wrote in message
> news:_X3se.3859$kl1.676@trndny08...[color=green]
>> On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 18:17:12 -0500, Ray O wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>> "hachiroku" <Trueno@ae86.gts> wrote in message
>>> news:b%1se.13793$ej1.10731@trndny09...
>>>
>>> <snipped>
>>>
>>>> On the on ramp, a sweeping right-hander with
>>>> a 'pinch' at the end I left the other driver in the dust!!!
>>>
>>> Are you talking about those decreasing-radius exit ramps that seem to be
>>> unique to Mass? They are fun in a sporty car but I noticed that a lot of
>>> people apply brakes while they are turning, which make for some exciting
>>> attitude adjustments![/color]
>>
>> Yeah, man, those are the ones! And remember, we are also the Rotary King
>> of the US, too. All other states abandon them ('roundabouts' for the
>> non-US participants) and Mass doubles the number of them in the state!
>>[color=darkred]
>>>
>>> I remember riding with a co-worker (to protect the guilty, we'll call him
>>> Moe) on the on-ramp near our office. We were being followed closely at
>>> about 45-50 MPH when we hit the on the on-ramp by another co-worker (to
>>> protect the guiltier, we'll call him Curly). Moe had actual racing
>>> instruction and experience, and while Curly would talk about yaw, pitch,
>>> roll, yadda, yadda, yadda, I don't think he had any actual competition
>>> experience. Moe was driving a 4X4 van (the first generation that looked
>>> like a 2-slice toaster from the side) and Curly was driving a Cressida.
>>> In
>>> theory, the more powerful Cressida with IRS should easily catch up and
>>> out-handle the top-heavy, live axle, 4-cylinder van, but Moe in the van
>>> was
>>> leaving Curly in the Cressida in the dust on the decreasing radius
>>> on-ramp.
>>> We could see Curly's look of embarrassment that a lowly 4 banger van was
>>> leaving his straight 6 Cressida in the dust.
>>>
>>> Moe looked over his shoulder, saw traffic coming, and in order to have
>>> more
>>> time to accelerate while merging, gives the parking brake a quick pull to
>>> bleed off speed while still on the gas to keep RPM up, corrects the
>>> steering
>>> wheel, and smoothly merges on to the highway. Since the brake lights in
>>> the
>>> van didn't come on when the parking brake was applied, Curly quickly
>>> caught
>>> up a LOT quicker than he expected and nails his brakes to avoid
>>> rear-ending
>>> us. As you can imagine, standing on the brakes at 45-50 MPH on a
>>> decreasing
>>> radius ramp will put the car sideways. In our mirrors, all we saw was
>>> a**holes and elbows as Curly worked on his yaw control. Luckily, Curly
>>> didn't hit anything and so he avoided having to explain how he got his
>>> shiny
>>> company car Cressida wrecked while trying to keep up with a van with a
>>> reputation for not being able to get out of its own way![/color]
>>
>> And you were Larry?
>>
>> Man, I LOVED those vans! I almost bought a white 4x4 last summer, arranged
>> the price, had the cash and the dude never came back! I guess, since I was
>> so eager, he decided he actually had a good vehicle, 'cause I still see
>> him tooling around in it.
>>
>> --
>> The Relentless Pursuit Of Conception...[/color]
>
> If the van is an LE, look for the mini-fridge with ice cube trays in the
> center console. Those vans were designed for city delivery in Japan so they
> are very manoeverable. When they were in production, they had the tightest
> turning radius of Toyotas sold in the U.S. and could practically do a u-turn
> in your driveway. The bad news was a highway ride like a bucking bronco.[/color]

I saw one of them in the not-too-distant past (past 2 years or so)
Interesting. My primary need for a van is to move band equipment around,
so being able to navigate handily is a plus. BUT I also need to drive
distances sometimes, so poor highway handling is a minus. Most of our gigs
are within 25 miles from home and can be handled a lot at speeds between
40-60 MPH. Hmmmm....

--
The Relentless Pursuit Of Conception...

On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 08:46:20 -0700, Learning Richard wrote:
[color=blue]
>
>
> hachiroku wrote:[color=green]
>> On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 18:27:08 -0700, Learning Richard wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>> >
>> >
>> > hachiroku wrote:
>> >> On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 18:17:12 -0500, Ray O wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > "hachiroku" <Trueno@ae86.gts> wrote in message
>> >> > news:b%1se.13793$ej1.10731@trndny09...
>> >> >
>> >> > <snipped>
>> >> >
>> >> >> On the on ramp, a sweeping right-hander with
>> >> >> a 'pinch' at the end I left the other driver in the dust!!!
>> >> >
>> >> > Are you talking about those decreasing-radius exit ramps that seem to be
>> >> > unique to Mass? They are fun in a sporty car but I noticed that a lot of
>> >> > people apply brakes while they are turning, which make for some exciting
>> >> > attitude adjustments!
>> >>
>> >> Yeah, man, those are the ones! And remember, we are also the Rotary King
>> >> of the US, too. All other states abandon them ('roundabouts' for the
>> >> non-US participants) and Mass doubles the number of them in the state!
>> >>
>> >
>> > Are those the same things as traffic circles? Actual circular roads
>> > with turnoffs for various directions, placed at highway exits? We got
>> > 'em in MD. My daughter always screams for me to take a couple of
>> > orbits on them before we get off to where we were actually going.[/color]
>>
>> As fast as possible!!!
>>
>> The #1 dumbest thing I ever saw was a woman in a BMW in a construction
>> zone, left-hand lane on a 3-lane highway, ignore every single "Left Lane
>> Closed XXX Feet", and continue on down to the VERY LAST CONE before
>> merging right. Problem was it was rush hour and NOBODY let her merge.
>>[/color]
>
> Well... according to the Maryland Driver's manual, that's exactly what
> she was supposed to do.
>
> Hey, I didn't write the manual, just tellin you what it says... no
> doubt since Maryland is a Blue State it was written by some Lefty who
> was concerned that all traffic lanes get equal treatment... ;-)[/color]

WHAT?!?!?! In CT, all the signs as she was tooling along apparently
oblivious said MERGE RIGHT.[color=blue]
>[color=green]
>> This was a close run to beat out what is my absolute all-time favourite
>> dumb-ass driver: The one who BACKED UP on a rotary 'cause she missed
>> the exit!!!
>>
>>[/color]
> Yeah -- usually some tiny woman in an Expedition who's talking on her
> cell ;) See it all the time here (backing up on shoulder lanes of exit
> ramps that is)[/color]

--
The Relentless Pursuit Of Conception...

hachiroku wrote:[color=blue]
> On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 08:46:20 -0700, Learning Richard wrote:
>[color=green]
> >
> >
> > hachiroku wrote:[color=darkred]
> >> On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 18:27:08 -0700, Learning Richard wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > hachiroku wrote:
> >> >> On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 18:17:12 -0500, Ray O wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > "hachiroku" <Trueno@ae86.gts> wrote in message
> >> >> > news:b%1se.13793$ej1.10731@trndny09...
> >> >> >
> >> >> > <snipped>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> On the on ramp, a sweeping right-hander with
> >> >> >> a 'pinch' at the end I left the other driver in the dust!!!
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Are you talking about those decreasing-radius exit ramps that seem to be
> >> >> > unique to Mass? They are fun in a sporty car but I noticed that a lot of
> >> >> > people apply brakes while they are turning, which make for some exciting
> >> >> > attitude adjustments!
> >> >>
> >> >> Yeah, man, those are the ones! And remember, we are also the Rotary King
> >> >> of the US, too. All other states abandon them ('roundabouts' for the
> >> >> non-US participants) and Mass doubles the number of them in the state!
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > Are those the same things as traffic circles? Actual circular roads
> >> > with turnoffs for various directions, placed at highway exits? We got
> >> > 'em in MD. My daughter always screams for me to take a couple of
> >> > orbits on them before we get off to where we were actually going.
> >>
> >> As fast as possible!!!
> >>
> >> The #1 dumbest thing I ever saw was a woman in a BMW in a construction
> >> zone, left-hand lane on a 3-lane highway, ignore every single "Left Lane
> >> Closed XXX Feet", and continue on down to the VERY LAST CONE before
> >> merging right. Problem was it was rush hour and NOBODY let her merge.
> >>[/color]
> >
> > Well... according to the Maryland Driver's manual, that's exactly what
> > she was supposed to do.
> >
> > Hey, I didn't write the manual, just tellin you what it says... no
> > doubt since Maryland is a Blue State it was written by some Lefty who
> > was concerned that all traffic lanes get equal treatment... ;-)[/color]
>
> WHAT?!?!?! In CT, all the signs as she was tooling along apparently
> oblivious said MERGE RIGHT.
>[/color]

OK maybe I took some liberties with what it says in the manual. Hmmm
kind of like Bush does with his ...

eh you know ;-)

"hachiroku" <Trueno@ae86.gts> wrote in message
news:tZmse.9773$Nx1.2436@trndny05...[color=blue]
> On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 11:32:13 -0500, Ray O wrote:[/color]

<snipped>
[color=blue][color=green]
>> If the van is an LE, look for the mini-fridge with ice cube trays in the
>> center console. Those vans were designed for city delivery in Japan so
>> they
>> are very manoeverable. When they were in production, they had the
>> tightest
>> turning radius of Toyotas sold in the U.S. and could practically do a
>> u-turn
>> in your driveway. The bad news was a highway ride like a bucking bronco.[/color]
>
> I saw one of them in the not-too-distant past (past 2 years or so)
> Interesting. My primary need for a van is to move band equipment around,
> so being able to navigate handily is a plus. BUT I also need to drive
> distances sometimes, so poor highway handling is a minus. Most of our gigs
> are within 25 miles from home and can be handled a lot at speeds between
> 40-60 MPH. Hmmmm....
>
> --
> The Relentless Pursuit Of Conception...[/color]

25 miles on the highway in one of those vans is nothing. I used to drive
about 1,000 miles a week and did several Carver, MA to Chicago, IL runs in
them. It takes a while to get used to sitting over the front wheels, with
your legs actually ahead of the front wheels. Having the van loaded
improved the ride quite a bit, which would make it a good band van.

--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply