OT Illinois Democrat Senator calls American Servicemen ... Nazis

from the Wall Street Journal

BY JAMES TARANTO
Wednesday, June 15, 2005 4:11 p.m. EDT

Durbin Supports the Troops
Sen. Dick Durbin, an Illinois Democrat, took the Senate floor
yesterday and likened American servicemen to Nazis (link in PDF):

When you read some of the graphic descriptions of what has
occurred here [at Guantanamo Bay]--I almost hesitate to put them in
the [Congressional] Record, and yet they have to be added to this
debate. Let me read to you what one FBI agent saw. And I quote from
his report:

On a couple of occasions, I entered interview rooms to find a
detainee chained hand and foot in a fetal position to the floor, with
no chair, food or water. Most times they urinated or defecated on
themselves, and had been left there for 18-24 hours or more. On one
occasion, the air conditioning had been turned down so far and the
temperature was so cold in the room, that the barefooted detainee was
shaking with cold. . . . On another occasion, the [air conditioner]
had been turned off, making the temperature in the unventilated room
well over 100 degrees. The detainee was almost unconscious on the
floor, with a pile of hair next to him. He had apparently been
literally pulling his hair out throughout the night. On another
occasion, not only was the temperature unbearably hot, but extremely
loud rap music was being played in the room, and had been since the
day before, with the detainee chained hand and foot in the fetal
position on the tile floor.

If I read this to you and did not tell you that it was an FBI
agent describing what Americans had done to prisoners in their
control, you would most certainly believe this must have been done by
Nazis, Soviets in their gulags, or some mad regime--Pol Pot or
others--that had no concern for human beings. Sadly, that is not the
case. This was the action of Americans in the treatment of their
prisoners.

We are fighting an enemy that murdered 3,000 innocent people on
American soil 3 1/2 years ago and would murder millions more if given
the chance--and according to Dick Durbin, our soldiers are the Nazis.

-----------------------------

This guy needs to be GONE!

--

Scott in Florida

Incredible what parallels the Left can draw... he's a stooge at best...

On 16 Jun 2005 06:57:18 -0700, "Mark" <markpippin@email.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>Incredible what parallels the Left can draw... he's a stooge at best...[/color]

Just in case anyone would care to send this guy a letter or email or
fax...as a public service the following is provided...



SEN DURBAN, (D)ILLINOIS

Chicago
230 South Dearborn St.
Suite 3892
Chicago, IL 60604
(312) 353-4952
(312) 353-0150 - fax

Springfield
525 South 8th St.
Springfield, IL 62703
(217 ) 492-4062
(217) 492-4382 - fax

Marion
701 N. Court St.
Marion, IL 62959
(618) 998-8812
(618) 997-0176 - fax

[url]http://durbin.senate.gov/[/url]


--

Scott in Florida

"Scott in Florida" <JustAsk@Florida.com> wrote in message
news:4bp2b1pivabnjlinihqs4s15sdls4eva7e@4ax.com...[color=blue]
> from the Wall Street Journal
>
> BY JAMES TARANTO
> Wednesday, June 15, 2005 4:11 p.m. EDT
>
> Durbin Supports the Troops
> Sen. Dick Durbin, an Illinois Democrat, took the Senate floor
> yesterday and likened American servicemen to Nazis (link in PDF):
>
> When you read some of the graphic descriptions of what has
> occurred here [at Guantanamo Bay]--I almost hesitate to put them in
> the [Congressional] Record, and yet they have to be added to this
> debate. Let me read to you what one FBI agent saw. And I quote from
> his report:
>
> On a couple of occasions, I entered interview rooms to find a
> detainee chained hand and foot in a fetal position to the floor, with
> no chair, food or water. Most times they urinated or defecated on
> themselves, and had been left there for 18-24 hours or more. On one
> occasion, the air conditioning had been turned down so far and the
> temperature was so cold in the room, that the barefooted detainee was
> shaking with cold. . . . On another occasion, the [air conditioner]
> had been turned off, making the temperature in the unventilated room
> well over 100 degrees. The detainee was almost unconscious on the
> floor, with a pile of hair next to him. He had apparently been
> literally pulling his hair out throughout the night. On another
> occasion, not only was the temperature unbearably hot, but extremely
> loud rap music was being played in the room, and had been since the
> day before, with the detainee chained hand and foot in the fetal
> position on the tile floor.
>
> If I read this to you and did not tell you that it was an FBI
> agent describing what Americans had done to prisoners in their
> control, you would most certainly believe this must have been done by
> Nazis, Soviets in their gulags, or some mad regime--Pol Pot or
> others--that had no concern for human beings. Sadly, that is not the
> case. This was the action of Americans in the treatment of their
> prisoners.
>
> We are fighting an enemy that murdered 3,000 innocent people on
> American soil 3 1/2 years ago and would murder millions more if given
> the chance--and according to Dick Durbin, our soldiers are the Nazis.
>
> -----------------------------
>
> This guy needs to be GONE!
>
> --
>
> Scott in Florida[/color]

If by "GONE," you're referring to Taranto, you're right.

Durbin's absolutely right. If you'd read this out of context, without
references to Guantanamo, you'd have said it was the Chinese or the
Vietnamese or the Japanese or the Nazis who were behaving the way these
captors are.

The world is starting to think our Constitution is an ironic joke.

The US used to object because the likes of Syria could get a seat on the UN
High Commission on Human Rights. Our behavior in "The War on Terror" makes
that objection look hypocritical.

The real irony is that at Guantanamo, we're not necessarily fighting an
enemy of any kind. The Administration has no idea who these prisoner are or
what they know. Some were picked up by mistake. At our other shining star
of a correctional facility, Abu Ghraib, 70% of the prisoners were eventually
simply let go because they'd been picked up by mistake. Some had been
tortured or mistreated. What sorts of things to you suppose they said when
they got home to their friends and family? "Support the US, they're great
guys?" I doubt it. This is breeding insurgentsf for sure and probably
terrorists, too.

If you agree with Taranto, and it's Durbin you think should be "GONE," then
I guess our nation's honor means nothing to you. And I'm not at all
surprised at that.

You don't get honor from torturing people. If you're objecting to Durbin
making this public, well, you don't get honor from a coverup, either.

Scott in Florida wrote:[color=blue]
> from the Wall Street Journal
>[/color]

dammit Scott... will you _please_ find different sources? Is it such a
stretch?
[color=blue]
> BY JAMES TARANTO
> Wednesday, June 15, 2005 4:11 p.m. EDT
>
> Durbin Supports the Troops
> Sen. Dick Durbin, an Illinois Democrat, took the Senate floor
> yesterday and likened American servicemen to Nazis (link in PDF):
>[/color]

Is that the same as "[calling] American Servicemen ... Nazis"?
[color=blue]
>
> When you read some of the graphic descriptions of what has
> occurred here [at Guantanamo Bay]--I almost hesitate to put them in
> the [Congressional] Record, and yet they have to be added to this
> debate. Let me read to you what one FBI agent saw. And I quote from
> his report:
>[/color]

So Durbin has the chutzpah to say what 57% of Americans are thinking.
Seems like you'd applaud that sort of bravery in Washington, where the
only thing that is sure to get you beat is speaking the truth.
[color=blue]
>
> On a couple of occasions, I entered interview rooms to find a
> detainee chained hand and foot in a fetal position to the floor, with
> no chair, food or water. Most times they urinated or defecated on
> themselves, and had been left there for 18-24 hours or more. On one
> occasion, the air conditioning had been turned down so far and the
> temperature was so cold in the room, that the barefooted detainee was
> shaking with cold. . . . On another occasion, the [air conditioner]
> had been turned off, making the temperature in the unventilated room
> well over 100 degrees. The detainee was almost unconscious on the
> floor, with a pile of hair next to him. He had apparently been
> literally pulling his hair out throughout the night. On another
> occasion, not only was the temperature unbearably hot, but extremely
> loud rap music was being played in the room, and had been since the
> day before, with the detainee chained hand and foot in the fetal
> position on the tile floor.
>[/color]

Good God man... that's horrible. Agents of the USA did all of that?
[color=blue]
>
> If I read this to you and did not tell you that it was an FBI
> agent describing what Americans had done to prisoners in their
> control, you would most certainly believe this must have been done by
> Nazis, Soviets in their gulags, or some mad regime--Pol Pot or
> others--that had no concern for human beings. Sadly, that is not the
> case. This was the action of Americans in the treatment of their
> prisoners.
>[/color]

Scott, that's what you consider "[calling] American Servicemen ...
Nazis"? Set your partisanship and distate for "LLL"s aside for a
second. Don't you think those kinds of abuses are horrible? It sounds
markedly similar to what _did_ happen to American servicemen in
Vietnam, or in the prison camps of Germany.
[color=blue]
>
> We are fighting an enemy that murdered 3,000 innocent people on
> American soil 3 1/2 years ago and would murder millions more if given
> the chance--and according to Dick Durbin, our soldiers are the Nazis.
>[/color]

No Scott. Dick Durbin did not call anyone a Nazi. If you dig hard
enough, you can indeed find some pretty wretched stuff done by Dems...
like Larry Byrd filibustering the congress to defeat Civil Rights
legislation in the 1960s... but Durbin's comments are far from
wretched.

By the way, we are now past 1,700 dead servicemen in Iraq... and so far
its been a failure over there (simply comparing the facts on the ground
to the Bush Administration's predictions of where we should be by now).

And, 3,000 - 1,700 = 1,300. Bush is getting pretty close, my man.

On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 07:27:47 -0700, Eric Dreher <ericd@cox.nét> wrote:
[color=blue]
>On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 14:22:17 GMT, Scott in Florida
><JustAsk@Florida.com> wrote:
>[color=green]
>>On 16 Jun 2005 06:57:18 -0700, "Mark" <markpippin@email.com> wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>>Incredible what parallels the Left can draw... he's a stooge at best...[/color]
>>
>>Just in case anyone would care to send this guy a letter or email or
>>fax...as a public service the following is provided...
>>
>>
>>
>>SEN DURBAN, (D)ILLINOIS
>>
>>Chicago
>>230 South Dearborn St.
>>Suite 3892
>>Chicago, IL 60604
>>(312) 353-4952
>>(312) 353-0150 - fax
>>
>>Springfield
>>525 South 8th St.
>>Springfield, IL 62703
>>(217 ) 492-4062
>>(217) 492-4382 - fax
>>
>>Marion
>>701 N. Court St.
>>Marion, IL 62959
>>(618) 998-8812
>>(618) 997-0176 - fax
>>
>>[url]http://durbin.senate.gov/[/url][/color]
>
>Let's hope he's up for re-election in 2006 OR that thinking people in
>Illinois use this one against him in 2008.
>
>Incredible.[/color]

Elected to the U.S. Senate on November 5, 1996 and re-elected in 2002,
Durbin fills the seat left vacant by the retirement of his long-time
friend and mentor, U.S. Senator Paul Simon.


--

Scott in Florida

On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 15:10:37 GMT, Scott in Florida
<JustAsk@Florida.com> wrote:
[color=blue][color=green]
>>Let's hope he's up for re-election in 2006 OR that thinking people in
>>Illinois use this one against him in 2008.
>>
>>Incredible.[/color]
>
>Elected to the U.S. Senate on November 5, 1996 and re-elected in 2002,
>Durbin fills the seat left vacant by the retirement of his long-time
>friend and mentor, U.S. Senator Paul Simon.[/color]

As goofy as Simon was/is, I doubt even HE would approve of this
idiot's Nazi assertions.


------------------------------------------------
The DNC - Building a bridge to the 20th Century.

On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 08:16:46 -0700, Eric Dreher <ericd@cox.nét> wrote:
[color=blue]
>On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 15:10:37 GMT, Scott in Florida
><JustAsk@Florida.com> wrote:
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>>>Let's hope he's up for re-election in 2006 OR that thinking people in
>>>Illinois use this one against him in 2008.
>>>
>>>Incredible.[/color]
>>
>>Elected to the U.S. Senate on November 5, 1996 and re-elected in 2002,
>>Durbin fills the seat left vacant by the retirement of his long-time
>>friend and mentor, U.S. Senator Paul Simon.[/color]
>
>As goofy as Simon was/is, I doubt even HE would approve of this
>idiot's Nazi assertions.[/color]

I would guess he is receiving a 'few' emails and faxes.

Gotta go jump on one of my Senator's butts about his idiotic support
for the LLL plan to get out of Gitmo...


--

Scott in Florida

"DH" <DH@stargate.nospam.com> wrote in message >[color=blue]
> The real irony is that at Guantanamo, we're not necessarily fighting an
> enemy of any kind. The Administration has no idea who these prisoner are
> or
> what they know. Some were picked up by mistake. At our other shining
> star
> of a correctional facility, Abu Ghraib, 70% of the prisoners were
> eventually
> simply let go because they'd been picked up by mistake. Some had been
> tortured or mistreated. What sorts of things to you suppose they said
> when
> they got home to their friends and family? "Support the US, they're great
> guys?" I doubt it. This is breeding insurgentsf for sure and probably
> terrorists, too.
>
> If you agree with Taranto, and it's Durbin you think should be "GONE,"
> then
> I guess our nation's honor means nothing to you. And I'm not at all
> surprised at that.
>
> You don't get honor from torturing people. If you're objecting to Durbin
> making this public, well, you don't get honor from a coverup, either.
>
>[/color]

Years ago there was a night security guard at our company that was a German
immigrant. I got to talking to him one night and he told a story of how he
was
a German Soldier and POW during WWII. He said that the Americans treated
them
with respect, were fed and they were better off than in the German Army. As
soon as the
war was over and released, he immigrated to America as soon as
he could. It's pretty sad that we are acting more like the people we used
to
fight against instead of upholding the ideals that used to seperate us from
the Communists and Nazis.

On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 09:20:43 -0700, "ToMh" <Teelhumm@hotm.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>
>"DH" <DH@stargate.nospam.com> wrote in message >[color=green]
>> The real irony is that at Guantanamo, we're not necessarily fighting an
>> enemy of any kind. The Administration has no idea who these prisoner are
>> or
>> what they know. Some were picked up by mistake. At our other shining
>> star
>> of a correctional facility, Abu Ghraib, 70% of the prisoners were
>> eventually
>> simply let go because they'd been picked up by mistake. Some had been
>> tortured or mistreated. What sorts of things to you suppose they said
>> when
>> they got home to their friends and family? "Support the US, they're great
>> guys?" I doubt it. This is breeding insurgentsf for sure and probably
>> terrorists, too.
>>
>> If you agree with Taranto, and it's Durbin you think should be "GONE,"
>> then
>> I guess our nation's honor means nothing to you. And I'm not at all
>> surprised at that.
>>
>> You don't get honor from torturing people. If you're objecting to Durbin
>> making this public, well, you don't get honor from a coverup, either.
>>
>>[/color]
>
>Years ago there was a night security guard at our company that was a German
>immigrant. I got to talking to him one night and he told a story of how he
>was
>a German Soldier and POW during WWII. He said that the Americans treated
>them
>with respect, were fed and they were better off than in the German Army. As
>soon as the
>war was over and released, he immigrated to America as soon as
>he could. It's pretty sad that we are acting more like the people we used
>to
>fight against instead of upholding the ideals that used to seperate us from
>the Communists and Nazis.
>[/color]
From what I've been able to find out....we are doing a damned fine job
of taking care of the 'enemy' combatants. Hell Gitmo is a vacation
compared to how they lived on the battlefield.

Remember 9/11?

Want to see some graphic pictures of what they did?


--

Scott in Florida

Scott in Florida wrote:[color=blue]
> On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 09:20:43 -0700, "ToMh" <Teelhumm@hotm.com> wrote:
>[color=green]
> >
> >"DH" <DH@stargate.nospam.com> wrote in message >[color=darkred]
> >> The real irony is that at Guantanamo, we're not necessarily fighting an
> >> enemy of any kind. The Administration has no idea who these prisoner are
> >> or
> >> what they know. Some were picked up by mistake. At our other shining
> >> star
> >> of a correctional facility, Abu Ghraib, 70% of the prisoners were
> >> eventually
> >> simply let go because they'd been picked up by mistake. Some had been
> >> tortured or mistreated. What sorts of things to you suppose they said
> >> when
> >> they got home to their friends and family? "Support the US, they're great
> >> guys?" I doubt it. This is breeding insurgentsf for sure and probably
> >> terrorists, too.
> >>
> >> If you agree with Taranto, and it's Durbin you think should be "GONE,"
> >> then
> >> I guess our nation's honor means nothing to you. And I'm not at all
> >> surprised at that.
> >>
> >> You don't get honor from torturing people. If you're objecting to Durbin
> >> making this public, well, you don't get honor from a coverup, either.
> >>
> >>[/color]
> >
> >Years ago there was a night security guard at our company that was a German
> >immigrant. I got to talking to him one night and he told a story of how he
> >was
> >a German Soldier and POW during WWII. He said that the Americans treated
> >them
> >with respect, were fed and they were better off than in the German Army. As
> >soon as the
> >war was over and released, he immigrated to America as soon as
> >he could. It's pretty sad that we are acting more like the people we used
> >to
> >fight against instead of upholding the ideals that used to seperate us from
> >the Communists and Nazis.
> >[/color]
> From what I've been able to find out....we are doing a damned fine job
> of taking care of the 'enemy' combatants. Hell Gitmo is a vacation
> compared to how they lived on the battlefield.
>
> Remember 9/11?
>
> Want to see some graphic pictures of what they did?
>[/color]

How about some "graphic pictures" of our children dying every day in
Iraq? Got any?

Didn't think so... how odd

"Scott in Florida" <JustAsk@Florida.com> wrote in message
news:nna3b1hg5ndk253u758eopcods7kq6q3sg@4ax.com...[color=blue]
> On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 09:20:43 -0700, "ToMh" <Teelhumm@hotm.com> wrote:
>[color=green]
>>
>>"DH" <DH@stargate.nospam.com> wrote in message >[color=darkred]
>>> The real irony is that at Guantanamo, we're not necessarily fighting an
>>> enemy of any kind. The Administration has no idea who these prisoner
>>> are
>>> or
>>> what they know. Some were picked up by mistake. At our other shining
>>> star
>>> of a correctional facility, Abu Ghraib, 70% of the prisoners were
>>> eventually
>>> simply let go because they'd been picked up by mistake. Some had been
>>> tortured or mistreated. What sorts of things to you suppose they said
>>> when
>>> they got home to their friends and family? "Support the US, they're
>>> great
>>> guys?" I doubt it. This is breeding insurgentsf for sure and probably
>>> terrorists, too.
>>>
>>> If you agree with Taranto, and it's Durbin you think should be "GONE,"
>>> then
>>> I guess our nation's honor means nothing to you. And I'm not at all
>>> surprised at that.
>>>
>>> You don't get honor from torturing people. If you're objecting to
>>> Durbin
>>> making this public, well, you don't get honor from a coverup, either.
>>>
>>>[/color]
>>
>>Years ago there was a night security guard at our company that was a
>>German
>>immigrant. I got to talking to him one night and he told a story of how he
>>was
>>a German Soldier and POW during WWII. He said that the Americans treated
>>them
>>with respect, were fed and they were better off than in the German Army.
>>As
>>soon as the
>>war was over and released, he immigrated to America as soon as
>>he could. It's pretty sad that we are acting more like the people we used
>>to
>>fight against instead of upholding the ideals that used to seperate us
>>from
>>the Communists and Nazis.
>>[/color]
> From what I've been able to find out....we are doing a damned fine job
> of taking care of the 'enemy' combatants. Hell Gitmo is a vacation
> compared to how they lived on the battlefield.
>
> Remember 9/11?
>
> Want to see some graphic pictures of what they did?
>
>[/color]
You just don't get it. How we treat our captures are a reflection on
our society. Lowerering ourselves to their level will do us far more
harm than good. As a matter of fact, I will conclude that the abuses
at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo have undermined our war effort by
evaporating what little support we had in the Arab world and have
given strength and support to the insurgent movment.

On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 10:01:28 -0700, "ToMh" <Teelhumm@hotm.com> wrote:
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Remember 9/11?
>>
>> Want to see some graphic pictures of what they did?
>>
>>[/color]
>You just don't get it. How we treat our captures are a reflection on
>our society. Lowerering ourselves to their level will do us far more
>harm than good. As a matter of fact, I will conclude that the abuses
>at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo have undermined our war effort by
>evaporating what little support we had in the Arab world and have
>given strength and support to the insurgent movment.
>[/color]


These are 'enemy combatant's....

Tell me what rights they have....again?

....and again they are being treated a hell of a lot better than what
happens to our guys when they are captured...but of course you don't
give two sh*ts about that do ya?




--

Scott in Florida

Durbin's absolutely right. If you'd read this out of context, without
references to Guantanamo, you'd have said it was the Chinese or the
Vietnamese or the Japanese or the Nazis who were behaving the way these

captors are.


If you think the American treatment of those at Guantanamo sounds the
same as the Nazis or Japanese or Vietnamese treatment of their
prisoners then you are tragically under-informed. I suggest you do a
little reading and/or viewing before offering your naive opinion. The
atrocities committed by each of those sadistic groups are well
documented.

"Scott in Florida" <JustAsk@Florida.com> wrote in message
news:lfc3b1d6221764vvu7clo034d1ekltr8vi@4ax.com...[color=blue]
> On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 10:01:28 -0700, "ToMh" <Teelhumm@hotm.com> wrote:
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>>> Remember 9/11?
>>>
>>> Want to see some graphic pictures of what they did?
>>>
>>>[/color]
>>You just don't get it. How we treat our captures are a reflection on
>>our society. Lowerering ourselves to their level will do us far more
>>harm than good. As a matter of fact, I will conclude that the abuses
>>at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo have undermined our war effort by
>>evaporating what little support we had in the Arab world and have
>>given strength and support to the insurgent movment.
>>[/color]
>
>
> These are 'enemy combatant's....
>
> Tell me what rights they have....again?
>
> ...and again they are being treated a hell of a lot better than what
> happens to our guys when they are captured...but of course you don't
> give two sh*ts about that do ya?
>
>
>[/color]
Like I said, you just don't get it. Any point I make is lost on you,
I may as well debate a doorknob. It's not about how bad they are,
it's about us rising above that and not being like them. Do you
understand that point? Really now, can you open that thick
Neocon skull of yours and think about a different point of view
and actually comment on that point? Telling me that I
don't care about our guys because I don't support the way
we treat our prisoners is just childish.