22re timing chain dilemna

I know this has been discussed many times but what will one more hurt.
92 4runner, bought last fall with 175,ooo miles, has about 185 now. It
had a little timing chain noise when I bought it, but it wasnt a big
concern to me. My 86 has gone 290K with no trouble. Well recently the
92 starting losing antifreeze, I have noticed some white exhaust smoke
at startup and there doesnt appear to be any antifreeze in the oil. So,

this means head gasket, right? or could it be the TC causing this?

would it be absolutely foolish of me to have the HG fixed and not have
tht timing chain done at the same time? It will bascially cost me
double to have both done, not an expense that I relish right now. But I
relish the thought of paying that same amount in 3 months, on top of
the HG repair now, if I dont do it all at once. Common sense tells me
to bite the bullet nd do it all now, but I just want to make sure.....

But I
relish the thought of paying that same amount in 3 months, on top of
the HG repair now, if I dont do it all at once
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I mean I DONT relish that thought!!

"Joe" <in2deep@airpost.net> wrote in message
news:1119545967.218392.132720@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
>I know this has been discussed many times but what will one more hurt.
> 92 4runner, bought last fall with 175,ooo miles, has about 185 now. It
> had a little timing chain noise when I bought it, but it wasnt a big
> concern to me. My 86 has gone 290K with no trouble. Well recently the
> 92 starting losing antifreeze, I have noticed some white exhaust smoke
> at startup and there doesnt appear to be any antifreeze in the oil. So,
>
> this means head gasket, right?[/color]

Probably.
or could it be the TC causing this?

No.
[color=blue]
>
> would it be absolutely foolish of me to have the HG fixed and not have
> tht timing chain done at the same time? It will bascially cost me
> double to have both done, not an expense that I relish right now. But I
> relish the thought of paying that same amount in 3 months, on top of
> the HG repair now, if I dont do it all at once. Common sense tells me
> to bite the bullet nd do it all now, but I just want to make sure.....
>[/color]
The TC noise could actually be from the tensioner; you may be able to get
away with just a new tensioner if the chain is still in good condition.

--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply

Ray O wrote:[color=blue]
> "Joe" <in2deep@airpost.net> wrote in message[/color]
[color=blue]
> Probably.
> or could it be the TC causing this?
>
> No.[/color]


didnt think so. I presume that means yes to headgasket then.

[color=blue][color=green]
> >[/color]
> The TC noise could actually be from the tensioner; you may be able to get
> away with just a new tensioner if the chain is still in good condition.[/color]


is there any way to know this for sure or do I have to trust the
goodwill of my local Toyota Tech? Does that save me any labor?

"Joe" <in2deep@airpost.net> wrote in message
news:1119559636.144457.307000@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
>
>
> Ray O wrote:[color=green]
>> "Joe" <in2deep@airpost.net> wrote in message[/color]
>[color=green]
>> Probably.
>> or could it be the TC causing this?
>>
>> No.[/color]
>
>
> didnt think so. I presume that means yes to headgasket then.
>[/color]

Unfortnately, the head gasket moves to the top of the suspect list.
[color=blue]
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>> >[/color]
>> The TC noise could actually be from the tensioner; you may be able to get
>> away with just a new tensioner if the chain is still in good condition.[/color]
>
>
> is there any way to know this for sure or do I have to trust the
> goodwill of my local Toyota Tech? Does that save me any labor?[/color]


The only way to know for sure if you can get away with just a tensioner is
to look at the chain. Toyota techs should be familiar with what a loose
tensioner sounds like and most dealer service departments are pretty honest.
It has been a long time since I've looked at one but IIRC, changing just the
tensioner is a little easier (less labor) than the changing the chain. Of
course, most people wait until the chain is trashed so then the tensioner
and chain need replacement.
--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply

Ok, but what are the odds that I get say, 100,000 more miles of this
timing chain before it blows and/or or ruins my engine? trying to
figure out if there is any sense at all in just leaving it be. Once
they get all the way in to look at it theres no sense in not fixing it,
but they cant see it with just the heads off, or can they?

"Joe" <in2deep@airpost.net> wrote in message
news:1119585557.980719.113790@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
> Ok, but what are the odds that I get say, 100,000 more miles of this
> timing chain before it blows and/or or ruins my engine? trying to
> figure out if there is any sense at all in just leaving it be. Once
> they get all the way in to look at it theres no sense in not fixing it,
> but they cant see it with just the heads off, or can they?
>[/color]
It's been a long time since I looked at a 22RE but the timing chain is not
as deep into the engine as the heads. The head and cams have to be
installed on the engine before you install the timing chain or belt. There
is probably a front cover that is relatively easy to remove to inspect the
chain and tensioner.
--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply

On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 20:59:18 -0700, Joe wrote:
[color=blue]
> Ok, but what are the odds that I get say, 100,000 more miles of this
> timing chain before it blows and/or or ruins my engine? trying to
> figure out if there is any sense at all in just leaving it be. Once
> they get all the way in to look at it theres no sense in not fixing it,
> but they cant see it with just the heads off, or can they?[/color]

Well, I had a GOOD night tonight, but my suggestion, if you can affords it:
you gotta do the head gasket, while you're there the timing chain is
another hour or so, and the water pump about another 20 minutes. if you
can afford it, do it now, and then you'llo get your 100,000 (actually,
abotu 180,000) miles out of it. If the rest of the truck isd in good
shape, do it! have a tech give it a good check first. I changed an engine,
and then the exhaust and the fuel lines blew out at the same time. If I
had known those systems were bad I would have put my money elsewhere...


--
The Relentless Pursuit Of Conception...

On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 04:57:33 +0000, Merritt Mullen wrote:
[color=blue]
> In article <1119585557.980719.113790@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
> "Joe" <in2deep@airpost.net> wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Ok, but what are the odds that I get say, 100,000 more miles of this
>> timing chain before it blows and/or or ruins my engine? trying to
>> figure out if there is any sense at all in just leaving it be. Once
>> they get all the way in to look at it theres no sense in not fixing it,
>> but they cant see it with just the heads off, or can they?[/color]
>
> I am assuming that engine has overhead cams like every other Toyota, and
> if so, the timing chain will have to be removed in order to remove the
> head. So it should be easy to check it for wear. I don't know what a
> timing chain costs,[/color]

About $60-75.
[color=blue]
> but it could cost less than the labor to replace it.
> By doing it along with the head, you save that labor cost.
>
> Merritt[/color]

--
The Relentless Pursuit Of Conception...

Thanks for all the replies, but every shop I've talked to so far (3)
have quoted me nearly double the head gasket repair price for doing the
timing chain as well. If it was only an additional hour or two of
labor, I wouldnt have a dilemna. I am getting quotes of roughly 700
for repairing the head gasket and 1200-1500 for head gasket and timing
chain, including parts.

On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 14:26:01 -0700, Joe wrote:
[color=blue]
> Thanks for all the replies, but every shop I've talked to so far (3)
> have quoted me nearly double the head gasket repair price for doing the
> timing chain as well. If it was only an additional hour or two of
> labor, I wouldnt have a dilemna. I am getting quotes of roughly 700
> for repairing the head gasket and 1200-1500 for head gasket and timing
> chain, including parts.[/color]

Those are Flat Rate shops, which a lot of dealers are. That means EVERYONE
pays the same price for whatever repair. You have to remove all the same
pieces to change the HG (and MORE) as you do to change the chain and
tensioners! You would THINK that since it's all apart already...

but that's what a Flat Rate shop it. You have this job, you pay this. You
have that job, you pay that. You have both at once, you pay this AND that.

Try to find a good independant shop that knows Toyotas and have them do it.

Where are you located?

--
The Relentless Pursuit Of Conception...

In article <pan.2005.06.24.22.37.40.336073@Trueno.GTS>,
hachiroku <hachiroku@Trueno.GTS> wrote:
[color=blue]
> Those are Flat Rate shops, which a lot of dealers are. That means EVERYONE
> pays the same price for whatever repair. You have to remove all the same
> pieces to change the HG (and MORE) as you do to change the chain and
> tensioners! You would THINK that since it's all apart already...
>
> but that's what a Flat Rate shop it. You have this job, you pay this. You
> have that job, you pay that. You have both at once, you pay this AND that.
>
> Try to find a good independant shop that knows Toyotas and have them do it.[/color]

I don't know about all Toyota dealers, but I don't think mine works that
way. Perhaps this is a case where the dealer is cheaper.

Merritt

usually the timing chain guides break and the chain wears a hole in the
coolant passage, thus coolant in the oil. If you do the chain, tensioner
and guides you should replace the head gasket too. To do the job correctly
the head should come off.

hachiroku wrote:[color=blue]
> On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 14:26:01 -0700, Joe wrote:
>[color=green]
> > Thanks for all the replies, but every shop I've talked to so far (3)
> > have quoted me nearly double the head gasket repair price for doing the
> > timing chain as well. If it was only an additional hour or two of
> > labor, I wouldnt have a dilemna. I am getting quotes of roughly 700
> > for repairing the head gasket and 1200-1500 for head gasket and timing
> > chain, including parts.[/color]
>
> Those are Flat Rate shops, which a lot of dealers are. That means EVERYONE
> pays the same price for whatever repair. You have to remove all the same
> pieces to change the HG (and MORE) as you do to change the chain and
> tensioners! You would THINK that since it's all apart already...
>
> but that's what a Flat Rate shop it. You have this job, you pay this. You
> have that job, you pay that. You have both at once, you pay this AND that.
>
> Try to find a good independant shop that knows Toyotas and have them do it.
>
> Where are you located?[/color]



I'm in northern MN. Perhaps I should call around and see what people
charge for the timing chain only, assuming the heads are going to come
off and get a new gasket anyway. I was quite surprised when my local
shop quoted quite similar to the Toyota dealer on this...also the same
price as the best/only foreign auto shop I know.

"toyotawiz" <toyotawiz@yahoo.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>usually the timing chain guides break and the chain wears a hole in the
>coolant passage, thus coolant in the oil. If you do the chain, tensioner
>and guides you should replace the head gasket too. To do the job correctly
>the head should come off.[/color]

This does not compute to me...how's changing the HG going to help
if the chain wears a hole in a coolant passage?...come to think
of it, how can the TC wear a hole in any coolant passage?...where
is it near them? Mind you I might be wrong here (and will
certainly admit it if I am)
--


-Gord.

"I'm trying to get as old as I can,
and it must be working 'cause I'm
the oldest now that I've ever been"