Service manual for 98 Camry: Haynes or Chilton?

If you know both, which is the better service manual (98 Camry) for a
beginner: Haynes or Chilton?

Haynes

On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 16:01:20 +0000, Ajanta wrote:
[color=blue]
> If you know both, which is the better service manual (98 Camry) for a
> beginner: Haynes or Chilton?[/color]

I use both.

If you can swing the bucks, the Toyota manual is the best...

"hachiroku" <ae86@Trueno.GTS> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.06.27.22.57.23.453942@Trueno.GTS...[color=blue]
> On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 16:01:20 +0000, Ajanta wrote:
>[color=green]
>> If you know both, which is the better service manual (98 Camry) for a
>> beginner: Haynes or Chilton?[/color]
>
> I use both.
>
> If you can swing the bucks, the Toyota manual is the best...
>[/color]
Except that the Toyota manual is not for beginners... it assumes that the
user has at least basic automotive knowledge.
--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply

Ray O wrote:[color=blue]
> "hachiroku" <ae86@Trueno.GTS> wrote in message
> news:pan.2005.06.27.22.57.23.453942@Trueno.GTS...[/color]
[color=blue][color=green]
> > If you can swing the bucks, the Toyota manual is the best...
> >[/color]
> Except that the Toyota manual is not for beginners... it
> assumes that the user has at least basic automotive knowledge.[/color]

Nonsense. Factory manuals are actually easier for beginners to
understand since they go into much more detail, especially Toyota's,
and don't substitute generic information for model-specific information
(compare wiring diagrams -- Factory and Mitchell will usually be
exactly right, Haynes and Chilton's only generally correct, which can
make them useless to beginners for some repairs). Factory manuals are
especially better for fuel, emissions, and computer systems and for
information about removing and installing hard-to-reach parts, such as
those inside the dashboard.

For people who don't know how to turn a wrench or change a tire, the
best books by far are John Muir Publishing's "How to Keep Your" <name
of car> "Alive" series, even if the person owns a totally different
car. However a manual written specifically for the person's car is
still needed.

In article <1119940373.004800.269720@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
[email]do_not_spam_me@my-deja.com[/email] wrote:
[color=blue]
> Ray O wrote:[color=green]
> > "hachiroku" <ae86@Trueno.GTS> wrote in message
> > news:pan.2005.06.27.22.57.23.453942@Trueno.GTS...[/color]
>[color=green][color=darkred]
> > > If you can swing the bucks, the Toyota manual is the best...
> > >[/color]
> > Except that the Toyota manual is not for beginners... it
> > assumes that the user has at least basic automotive knowledge.[/color]
>
> Nonsense. Factory manuals are actually easier for beginners to
> understand since they go into much more detail, especially Toyota's,
> and don't substitute generic information for model-specific information
> (compare wiring diagrams -- Factory and Mitchell will usually be
> exactly right, Haynes and Chilton's only generally correct, which can
> make them useless to beginners for some repairs). Factory manuals are
> especially better for fuel, emissions, and computer systems and for
> information about removing and installing hard-to-reach parts, such as
> those inside the dashboard.[/color]

This is the absolute truth folks... even the bad factory shop manuals
are head and shoulders above anything else out there.

Erik

Erik <erik@dejathis.com> wrote:

: This is the absolute truth folks... even the bad factory shop manuals
: are head and shoulders above anything else out there.

What is the price difference between two kinds for Toyota Camry?


:
: Erik

<do_not_spam_me@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:1119940373.004800.269720@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
>
> Ray O wrote:[color=green]
>> "hachiroku" <ae86@Trueno.GTS> wrote in message
>> news:pan.2005.06.27.22.57.23.453942@Trueno.GTS...[/color]
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>> > If you can swing the bucks, the Toyota manual is the best...
>> >[/color]
>> Except that the Toyota manual is not for beginners... it
>> assumes that the user has at least basic automotive knowledge.[/color]
>
> Nonsense. Factory manuals are actually easier for beginners to
> understand since they go into much more detail, especially Toyota's,
> and don't substitute generic information for model-specific information
> (compare wiring diagrams -- Factory and Mitchell will usually be
> exactly right, Haynes and Chilton's only generally correct, which can
> make them useless to beginners for some repairs). Factory manuals are
> especially better for fuel, emissions, and computer systems and for
> information about removing and installing hard-to-reach parts, such as
> those inside the dashboard.
>
> For people who don't know how to turn a wrench or change a tire, the
> best books by far are John Muir Publishing's "How to Keep Your" <name
> of car> "Alive" series, even if the person owns a totally different
> car. However a manual written specifically for the person's car is
> still needed.[/color]

When I worked the customer relations desk, we used to occasionally get
complaints that the factory manuals were hard to understand for a layman
after spending close to $200 for a full set, hence my warning. In my
experience, someone who needs a manual to change oil or brakes probably
should not be attempting fuel injection, emissions, or ECU diagnosis and
repair.
--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply

"Ajanta" <ajanta@null.void> wrote in message
news:280620050246161784%ajanta@null.void...[color=blue]
> Erik <erik@dejathis.com> wrote:
>
> : This is the absolute truth folks... even the bad factory shop manuals
> : are head and shoulders above anything else out there.
>
> What is the price difference between two kinds for Toyota Camry?
>
>
> :
> : Erik[/color]

Factory Service Manual will be around $170 for the base book plus more for
wiring diagrams. Factory manuals are very detailed and with one, you can
disassemble and re-assemble the entire car.

Chiltons and Haynes manuals will be around $30 and cover the repairs most
homeowners would attempt themselves.
--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply

"Ray O" <rokigawa@tristarassociatesDOT.com> wrote in message
news:-uWdnbQBV6fGUF3fRVn-tQ@comcast.com...[color=blue]
>
> "hachiroku" <ae86@Trueno.GTS> wrote in message
> news:pan.2005.06.27.22.57.23.453942@Trueno.GTS...[color=green]
> > On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 16:01:20 +0000, Ajanta wrote:
> >[color=darkred]
> >> If you know both, which is the better service manual (98 Camry) for a
> >> beginner: Haynes or Chilton?[/color]
> >
> > I use both.
> >
> > If you can swing the bucks, the Toyota manual is the best...
> >[/color]
> Except that the Toyota manual is not for beginners... it assumes that the
> user has at least basic automotive knowledge.[/color]


Written for beginners or not, the factory service manual is vastly superior
to either the Haynes or the Chilton. The factory manual has a picture of a
part, any part, and it will actually be the right picture AND it will exist
on the particular car. Haynes and Chilton, on the other hand, will have a
picture that won't look like anything even remotely similar to what you are
working on. I wouldn't encourage anybody to ever buy a Chilton or a Haynes
manual - they aren't even suitable to wipe your ass. The factory manual is
by far the better tool. It is more costly, but it is a much better manual.

I assume the reader has basic automotive knowledge, or he wouldn't be buying
a service manual in the first place. If this is true, then certainly Chilton
and Haynes also assume a certain degree of basic knowledge.

"Ray O" <rokigawa@tristarassociatesDOT.com> wrote in message
news:jMidnX-7gIKhW1zfRVn-gQ@comcast.com...[color=blue]
>
> <do_not_spam_me@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:1119940373.004800.269720@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...[color=green]
> >
> > Ray O wrote:[color=darkred]
> >> "hachiroku" <ae86@Trueno.GTS> wrote in message
> >> news:pan.2005.06.27.22.57.23.453942@Trueno.GTS...[/color]
> >[color=darkred]
> >> > If you can swing the bucks, the Toyota manual is the best...
> >> >
> >> Except that the Toyota manual is not for beginners... it
> >> assumes that the user has at least basic automotive knowledge.[/color]
> >
> > Nonsense. Factory manuals are actually easier for beginners to
> > understand since they go into much more detail, especially Toyota's,
> > and don't substitute generic information for model-specific information
> > (compare wiring diagrams -- Factory and Mitchell will usually be
> > exactly right, Haynes and Chilton's only generally correct, which can
> > make them useless to beginners for some repairs). Factory manuals are
> > especially better for fuel, emissions, and computer systems and for
> > information about removing and installing hard-to-reach parts, such as
> > those inside the dashboard.
> >
> > For people who don't know how to turn a wrench or change a tire, the
> > best books by far are John Muir Publishing's "How to Keep Your" <name
> > of car> "Alive" series, even if the person owns a totally different
> > car. However a manual written specifically for the person's car is
> > still needed.[/color]
>
> When I worked the customer relations desk, we used to occasionally get
> complaints that the factory manuals were hard to understand for a layman
> after spending close to $200 for a full set, hence my warning. In my
> experience, someone who needs a manual to change oil or brakes probably
> should not be attempting fuel injection, emissions, or ECU diagnosis and
> repair.
> --[/color]

In my experience, anybody that needs a manual to change oil should give
seriouis consideration to the Quick Change Joint down the street.

"Jeff Strickland" <spamcatcher@yahoo.net> wrote in message
news:OMydnRM0nf5dUlzfRVn-vA@ez2.net...[color=blue]
>
> "Ray O" <rokigawa@tristarassociatesDOT.com> wrote in message
> news:jMidnX-7gIKhW1zfRVn-gQ@comcast.com...[color=green]
>>
>> <do_not_spam_me@my-deja.com> wrote in message
>> news:1119940373.004800.269720@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...[color=darkred]
>> >
>> > Ray O wrote:
>> >> "hachiroku" <ae86@Trueno.GTS> wrote in message
>> >> news:pan.2005.06.27.22.57.23.453942@Trueno.GTS...
>> >
>> >> > If you can swing the bucks, the Toyota manual is the best...
>> >> >
>> >> Except that the Toyota manual is not for beginners... it
>> >> assumes that the user has at least basic automotive knowledge.
>> >
>> > Nonsense. Factory manuals are actually easier for beginners to
>> > understand since they go into much more detail, especially Toyota's,
>> > and don't substitute generic information for model-specific information
>> > (compare wiring diagrams -- Factory and Mitchell will usually be
>> > exactly right, Haynes and Chilton's only generally correct, which can
>> > make them useless to beginners for some repairs). Factory manuals are
>> > especially better for fuel, emissions, and computer systems and for
>> > information about removing and installing hard-to-reach parts, such as
>> > those inside the dashboard.
>> >
>> > For people who don't know how to turn a wrench or change a tire, the
>> > best books by far are John Muir Publishing's "How to Keep Your" <name
>> > of car> "Alive" series, even if the person owns a totally different
>> > car. However a manual written specifically for the person's car is
>> > still needed.[/color]
>>
>> When I worked the customer relations desk, we used to occasionally get
>> complaints that the factory manuals were hard to understand for a layman
>> after spending close to $200 for a full set, hence my warning. In my
>> experience, someone who needs a manual to change oil or brakes probably
>> should not be attempting fuel injection, emissions, or ECU diagnosis and
>> repair.
>> --[/color]
>
> In my experience, anybody that needs a manual to change oil should give
> seriouis consideration to the Quick Change Joint down the street.
>[/color]
Agreed 100%!!
--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply

On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 23:00:54 -0500, Ray O wrote:
[color=blue]
>
> "hachiroku" <ae86@Trueno.GTS> wrote in message
> news:pan.2005.06.27.22.57.23.453942@Trueno.GTS...[color=green]
>> On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 16:01:20 +0000, Ajanta wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>> If you know both, which is the better service manual (98 Camry) for a
>>> beginner: Haynes or Chilton?[/color]
>>
>> I use both.
>>
>> If you can swing the bucks, the Toyota manual is the best...
>>[/color]
> Except that the Toyota manual is not for beginners... it assumes that the
> user has at least basic automotive knowledge.[/color]

Ya know, yer right! I just assume someone posting a message about manuals
probably has a basic knowledge, but I've been wrong before...


Once.

On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 23:32:53 -0700, do_not_spam_me wrote:
[color=blue]
>
> Ray O wrote:[color=green]
>> "hachiroku" <ae86@Trueno.GTS> wrote in message
>> news:pan.2005.06.27.22.57.23.453942@Trueno.GTS...[/color]
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>> > If you can swing the bucks, the Toyota manual is the best...
>> >[/color]
>> Except that the Toyota manual is not for beginners... it
>> assumes that the user has at least basic automotive knowledge.[/color]
>
> Nonsense. Factory manuals are actually easier for beginners to
> understand since they go into much more detail, especially Toyota's,
> and don't substitute generic information for model-specific information
> (compare wiring diagrams -- Factory and Mitchell will usually be
> exactly right, Haynes and Chilton's only generally correct, which can
> make them useless to beginners for some repairs). Factory manuals are
> especially better for fuel, emissions, and computer systems and for
> information about removing and installing hard-to-reach parts, such as
> those inside the dashboard.
>
> For people who don't know how to turn a wrench or change a tire, the
> best books by far are John Muir Publishing's "How to Keep Your" <name
> of car> "Alive" series, even if the person owns a totally different
> car. However a manual written specifically for the person's car is
> still needed.[/color]

What about Bentley's?

On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 16:40:11 -0500, Ray O wrote:
[color=blue]
>
> "Ajanta" <ajanta@null.void> wrote in message
> news:280620050246161784%ajanta@null.void...[color=green]
>> Erik <erik@dejathis.com> wrote:
>>
>> : This is the absolute truth folks... even the bad factory shop manuals
>> : are head and shoulders above anything else out there.
>>
>> What is the price difference between two kinds for Toyota Camry?
>>
>>
>> :
>> : Erik[/color]
>
> Factory Service Manual will be around $170 for the base book plus more for
> wiring diagrams. Factory manuals are very detailed and with one, you can
> disassemble and re-assemble the entire car.
>
> Chiltons and Haynes manuals will be around $30 and cover the repairs most
> homeowners would attempt themselves.[/color]

CarQuest sells them for $19.95