Hybrid Cars - Electrocution Danger question

Hi,

I saw a story on the news not too long ago. It said that rescue
workers are in danger when there is a crash involving a hybrid car of
electrocution. I would not have thought of it but, apparently, when there
is a bad crash and the jaws of life need to be used cutting through an
electric wire is a big concern. Does this not make the hybrid cars less
survivable in a crash than a conventional fully gas burning car?

> "R Steenerson" wrote:[color=blue]
> I saw a story on the news not too long ago. It said that rescue
> workers are in danger when there is a crash involving a hybrid car of
> electrocution. I would not have thought of it but, apparently, when there
> is a bad crash and the jaws of life need to be used cutting through an
> electric wire is a big concern. Does this not make the hybrid cars less
> survivable in a crash than a conventional fully gas burning car?[/color]

Doubtful as the jaws are used on the upper part of the car and the high
voltage wires are underneath. I do know that the battery has potassium
hydroxide and the neutralizing solution is boric acid. That may be more of
a concern for the Hazmat crew (although the HV battery under the back seat
isn't that large).

B~

In article <qaJLe.32371$3S5.3895@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com>,
"R Steenerson" <rsteenerson@mn.rr.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
> Hi,
>
> I saw a story on the news not too long ago. It said that rescue
> workers are in danger when there is a crash involving a hybrid car of
> electrocution. I would not have thought of it but, apparently, when there
> is a bad crash and the jaws of life need to be used cutting through an
> electric wire is a big concern. Does this not make the hybrid cars less
> survivable in a crash than a conventional fully gas burning car?[/color]

It is just another hazard that the responding authorities need to be aware
of and be trained to deal with. It seems to me that is a much less hazard
than leaking gasoline would be. I am sure the rescuers know not to cut
through a gas tank or gas line with the jaws of life, and likewise, know
where not to cut on an electric vehicle.

Those same people have to deal with electrical and natural gas hazards
when working on home that has collapsed or is on fire.

Merritt

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 20:19:34 +0000, Merritt Mullen wrote:
[color=blue]
> In article <qaJLe.32371$3S5.3895@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com>,
> "R Steenerson" <rsteenerson@mn.rr.com> wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Hi,
>>
>> I saw a story on the news not too long ago. It said that rescue
>> workers are in danger when there is a crash involving a hybrid car of
>> electrocution. I would not have thought of it but, apparently, when there
>> is a bad crash and the jaws of life need to be used cutting through an
>> electric wire is a big concern. Does this not make the hybrid cars less
>> survivable in a crash than a conventional fully gas burning car?[/color]
>
> It is just another hazard that the responding authorities need to be aware
> of and be trained to deal with. It seems to me that is a much less hazard
> than leaking gasoline would be. I am sure the rescuers know not to cut
> through a gas tank or gas line with the jaws of life, and likewise, know
> where not to cut on an electric vehicle.
>
> Those same people have to deal with electrical and natural gas hazards
> when working on home that has collapsed or is on fire.
>
> Merritt[/color]


Supposedly, from what a friend who is a fireman has told me, there have
already been a couple of deaths of first responders in Prius accidents.
This was a couple years ago, and very shortly after there were procedures
devised by FR groups and Toyta in dealing with a Prius wreck.

"HachiRoku" <Trueno@ae86.GTS> wrote in message
news:LGOLe.1019$I56.965@trndny06...[color=blue]
> On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 20:19:34 +0000, Merritt Mullen wrote:
>
>
>
> Supposedly, from what a friend who is a fireman has told me, there have
> already been a couple of deaths of first responders in Prius accidents.
> This was a couple years ago, and very shortly after there were procedures
> devised by FR groups and Toyta in dealing with a Prius wreck.[/color]

I understand the battery voltage on a 2005 Prius is over 500 volts. That
will be enough to do almost anything if there is water around. It might be
worth a second thought when shopping for a fuel efficient car.

Chuck

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 16:22:39 -0700, Chuck Olson wrote:
[color=blue]
>
> "HachiRoku" <Trueno@ae86.GTS> wrote in message
> news:LGOLe.1019$I56.965@trndny06...[color=green]
>> On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 20:19:34 +0000, Merritt Mullen wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Supposedly, from what a friend who is a fireman has told me, there have
>> already been a couple of deaths of first responders in Prius accidents.
>> This was a couple years ago, and very shortly after there were procedures
>> devised by FR groups and Toyta in dealing with a Prius wreck.[/color]
>
> I understand the battery voltage on a 2005 Prius is over 500 volts. That
> will be enough to do almost anything if there is water around. It might be
> worth a second thought when shopping for a fuel efficient car.
>
> Chuck[/color]


268 Volts from a bank of cells that is about 1 ydX7 inches. But at a
pretty high current; I don't know what the current rating is.

Hachiroku <Trueno@ae86.gts> wrote:
[color=blue]
>On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 16:22:39 -0700, Chuck Olson wrote:
>[color=green]
>>
>> "HachiRoku" <Trueno@ae86.GTS> wrote in message
>> news:LGOLe.1019$I56.965@trndny06...[color=darkred]
>>> On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 20:19:34 +0000, Merritt Mullen wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Supposedly, from what a friend who is a fireman has told me, there have
>>> already been a couple of deaths of first responders in Prius accidents.
>>> This was a couple years ago, and very shortly after there were procedures
>>> devised by FR groups and Toyta in dealing with a Prius wreck.[/color]
>>
>> I understand the battery voltage on a 2005 Prius is over 500 volts. That
>> will be enough to do almost anything if there is water around. It might be
>> worth a second thought when shopping for a fuel efficient car.
>>
>> Chuck[/color]
>
>
>268 Volts from a bank of cells that is about 1 ydX7 inches. But at a
>pretty high current; I don't know what the current rating is.[/color]

Same as a "D" cell I believe (what - couple of amps?)
--

-Gord.
(use gordon in email)

On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 00:57:41 +0000, Gord Beaman wrote:
[color=blue]
> Hachiroku <Trueno@ae86.gts> wrote:
>[color=green]
>>On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 16:22:39 -0700, Chuck Olson wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>>
>>> "HachiRoku" <Trueno@ae86.GTS> wrote in message
>>> news:LGOLe.1019$I56.965@trndny06...
>>>> On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 20:19:34 +0000, Merritt Mullen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Supposedly, from what a friend who is a fireman has told me, there have
>>>> already been a couple of deaths of first responders in Prius accidents.
>>>> This was a couple years ago, and very shortly after there were procedures
>>>> devised by FR groups and Toyta in dealing with a Prius wreck.
>>>
>>> I understand the battery voltage on a 2005 Prius is over 500 volts. That
>>> will be enough to do almost anything if there is water around. It might be
>>> worth a second thought when shopping for a fuel efficient car.
>>>
>>> Chuck[/color]
>>
>>
>>268 Volts from a bank of cells that is about 1 ydX7 inches. But at a
>>pretty high current; I don't know what the current rating is.[/color]
>
> Same as a "D" cell I believe (what - couple of amps?)[/color]

Yeah, but there are about 120 of them ganged together.

All I know for sure, when the Prius Ace in the shop works on them, he
wears the same kind of protection as the guys working high-tension
transmission lines; a pair of cloth gloves, covered with a pair of rubber
gloves, and then another pair of canvas gloves over that.

Seems like an awful lot of a couple amps...

"R Steenerson" <rsteenerson@mn.rr.com> wrote in message
news:qaJLe.32371$3S5.3895@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...[color=blue]
> Hi,
>
> I saw a story on the news not too long ago. It said that rescue
> workers are in danger when there is a crash involving a hybrid car of
> electrocution. I would not have thought of it but, apparently, when there
> is a bad crash and the jaws of life need to be used cutting through an
> electric wire is a big concern. Does this not make the hybrid cars less
> survivable in a crash than a conventional fully gas burning car?
>[/color]
I read somewhere that high voltage wires are marked bright yellow so that it
is obvious to someone cutting through a vehicle. As far as crash
survivability, it is no worse than a similar sized car.
--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply

> "Ray O" wrote:[color=blue]
> I read somewhere that high voltage wires are marked bright yellow so that
> it is obvious to someone cutting through a vehicle. As far as crash
> survivability, it is no worse than a similar sized car.[/color]

True. The wires are in a very bright orange loom and pretty hard to miss as
they are large like garden hoses. The HV battery voltage is around 208
volts as I recall from the manual and it floats to around a 50% charge
(which is why they warranty it for 10 years and 120,000 miles in
California). Never really fully charges (cooks) nor drains (ICE cuts in) so
it keeps the wear down considerably. It is also cooled fairly well (inside
the car under the back seat with a fan and vents).

B~

Thanks for bringing this up. There many people who believe hybrids have are
better in every way, except higher price.


"R Steenerson" <rsteenerson@mn.rr.com> wrote in message
news:qaJLe.32371$3S5.3895@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...[color=blue]
> Hi,
>
> I saw a story on the news not too long ago. It said that rescue
> workers are in danger when there is a crash involving a hybrid car of
> electrocution. I would not have thought of it but, apparently, when there
> is a bad crash and the jaws of life need to be used cutting through an
> electric wire is a big concern. Does this not make the hybrid cars less
> survivable in a crash than a conventional fully gas burning car?
>
>[/color]

Ya, I saw that story. I can't find the link now, but I also found a
follow-up that showed how that story is fake and paied for by GM.

The Toyota batteries are sealed in a metal box, and all the high voltage
wires are yellow or red. I forget what, but they are clearly marked. The
high voltage system is not grounded to the frame so you would have to cut
into 2 wires and cross both to get shocked. I am not sure, but I think it
also has a impact cut off at the batteries. Like a crash fuel shutoff
normal cars have.

In my thinking, the chances of a gas leak and a large fire are far greater
then getting shocked. I work next to an auto body shop. About 1 in 10
crashed cars I see have caught fire.

Only time will tell what is really safer, but I don't see it as anything
to panic about.


On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 08:11:18 -0700, R Steenerson wrote:
[color=blue]
> Hi,
>
> I saw a story on the news not too long ago. It said that rescue
> workers are in danger when there is a crash involving a hybrid car of
> electrocution. I would not have thought of it but, apparently, when
> there is a bad crash and the jaws of life need to be used cutting
> through an electric wire is a big concern. Does this not make the
> hybrid cars less survivable in a crash than a conventional fully gas
> burning car?[/color]

> "Eddie" wrote:[color=blue]
> Ya, I saw that story. I can't find the link now, but I also found a
> follow-up that showed how that story is fake and paid for by GM.[/color]

GM paid for it? Nah, can't be. ;o)

So where's this hybrid GM truck I keep hearing about, or that Saturn hybrid?
GM is sitting by and really wasting time catching up to Toyota. No wonder
they fell out of the top slot and now have a net worth 1/5th that of Toyota.
I knew something was really wrong when Harley-Davidson passed them too.

The fire thing may be a trade off. The hybrid's tank is a third the
capacity of a regular truck or car. When it goes boom or ablaze, it's an
apples and oranges argument - hybrid or not.

B~

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 16:22:39 -0700, "Chuck Olson"
<chuckolson01@REMOVETHIScomcast.net> wrote:
[color=blue]
>
>"HachiRoku" <Trueno@ae86.GTS> wrote in message
>news:LGOLe.1019$I56.965@trndny06...[color=green]
>> On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 20:19:34 +0000, Merritt Mullen wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Supposedly, from what a friend who is a fireman has told me, there have
>> already been a couple of deaths of first responders in Prius accidents.
>> This was a couple years ago, and very shortly after there were procedures
>> devised by FR groups and Toyta in dealing with a Prius wreck.[/color]
>
>I understand the battery voltage on a 2005 Prius is over 500 volts. That
>will be enough to do almost anything if there is water around. It might be
>worth a second thought when shopping for a fuel efficient car.[/color]

You understand incorrectly. It is 201v or some such.[color=blue]
>Chuck
>[/color]

"Chris Hill" <hillco@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3tk23us2n23546kfipkr2c2nbggfdu6bhk@4ax.com...[color=blue]
> On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 16:22:39 -0700, "Chuck Olson"
> <chuckolson01@REMOVETHIScomcast.net> wrote:
>[color=green]
> >
> >"HachiRoku" <Trueno@ae86.GTS> wrote in message
> >news:LGOLe.1019$I56.965@trndny06...[color=darkred]
> >> On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 20:19:34 +0000, Merritt Mullen wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Supposedly, from what a friend who is a fireman has told me, there have
> >> already been a couple of deaths of first responders in Prius accidents.
> >> This was a couple years ago, and very shortly after there were[/color][/color][/color]
procedures[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
> >> devised by FR groups and Toyta in dealing with a Prius wreck.[/color]
> >
> >I understand the battery voltage on a 2005 Prius is over 500 volts. That
> >will be enough to do almost anything if there is water around. It might[/color][/color]
be[color=blue][color=green]
> >worth a second thought when shopping for a fuel efficient car.[/color]
>
> You understand incorrectly. It is 201v or some such.[/color]

Yes, you're right - - for 2005 they reduced the battery from 38 modules to
28 modules, and used an inverter that puts out up to 500 volts AC at a
varying frequency to the PM synchronous motor. My statement was based on
this data: [url]http://www.1000islandstoyota.com/newsite/pages/prius.html[/url] . The
confusion evidently was over the battery voltage compared to the motor
voltage rating. Here are a couple of good reference for the current
configuration:
[url]http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/tech/environment/hsd/pdf/a_guide_to_hsd.pdf[/url] and
[url]http://www.toyota.com/images/vehicles/ebrochure/pdfs/priebroch.pdf[/url] .