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Old 08-27-2005, 09:06 AM   #1 (permalink)
Scott
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92 Landcruiser hard hot starting

I have a 1992 Landcruiser with ~170k miles I've owned since new. It
has been almost troublefree until this summer. Now it frequently won't
start when hot. It cranks fine but won't fire at all. This problem
only occurs when it is hot and has been shut off for a couple of
minutes up to about a half hour (hot time under the hood). It will
start up right after shut down just fine.

I have pulled a plug and they are dry (no fuel on them) during these
episodes. However there also is no spark if I ground a plug and crank
it during an episode.

One other pertinent detail is that I recently replaced the original
thermostat because the engine had begun to run hotter under load. The
old OEM thermostat was significantly slower opening than the new OEM
replacement during a hot water test and in fact wouldn't open fully
until the the water boiled.

I've scoured the internet and eventually came up with the pick-up coil
in the distributor as the most likely culprit among many possibilities.
I changed it without any luck.

I'm still thinking electrical but not ruling out fuel problems. I am
wondering if the 13+ years and recent extra heat has been cooking
something. I would have already tried replacing the ignition control
module but my local Toyota parts guy with 12 years experience says he
has never sold one to the public or for the dealer shop. This of
course doesn't mean it isn't bad but I thought I would seek some advise
before I continue shotgunning my repair process. Any thoughts would be
appreciated.

Scott

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Old 08-27-2005, 10:02 AM   #2 (permalink)
Stewart DIBBS
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Re: 92 Landcruiser hard hot starting

"Scott" <Toyota92Landcruiser@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1125151583.797368.39570@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
>I have a 1992 Landcruiser ...
> I have pulled a plug and they are dry (no fuel on them) during these
> episodes. However there also is no spark if I ground a plug and crank[/color]

OK, no spark AND no fuel as well. I could understand just no fuel, as this
suggests vapour lock or fuel filter problems. The engine runs hotter too.
This suggests its running a bit lean. You need to investigate what controls
both the injectors and spark. "ignition control module" ? If this is what
generates the spark, its very likely NOT the problem as you've been advised.

Does the engine have a crank angle sensor of some sort, or a distributor? If
the crank position is not being reported to the ECU, it will
a) not cause the ignition control module to produce spark; and
b) not fire the injectors because of a).

If the engine really is running lean, this suggests that another engine
sensor or possibly an O2 sensor is malfunctioning.

When it won't start, does the check engine light come on? Are you getting a
error code from the ECU? Are you getting any error codes from the ECU that
are not severe enough to turn on the check engine light ?

Or it may just be a series of poor connections caused by age. Pull all the
engine connectors you can see and give them squirt with WD40, then R/R the
connections a few times. See if the problem goes away.

Stewart DIBBS


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Old 08-27-2005, 09:15 PM   #3 (permalink)
Ray O
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Re: 92 Landcruiser hard hot starting



--
Ray Okigawa
TriStar Associates L.L.C.
Phone: 847-690-0910 Extension 17
Fax: 847-690-0916
[email]rokigawa@tristarassociates.com[/email]

"Stewart DIBBS" <sjd@pixcl.com> wrote in message
news:0sKdnZ2dnZ3DJZ36nZ2dnRYdjd6dnZ2dRVn-0J2dnZ0@magma.ca...[color=blue]
> "Scott" <Toyota92Landcruiser@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1125151583.797368.39570@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...[color=green]
>>I have a 1992 Landcruiser ...
>> I have pulled a plug and they are dry (no fuel on them) during these
>> episodes. However there also is no spark if I ground a plug and crank[/color]
>
> OK, no spark AND no fuel as well. I could understand just no fuel, as this
> suggests vapour lock or fuel filter problems. The engine runs hotter too.
> This suggests its running a bit lean. You need to investigate what
> controls both the injectors and spark. "ignition control module" ? If this
> is what generates the spark, its very likely NOT the problem as you've
> been advised.[/color]

Ignition igniters have been known to go bad but they do not fail
intermittently. They tend to just stop working and you get no spark.

What kind of spark plugs, ignition wires, cap, rotor, etc. are installed?
If it is aftermarket, that could be the problem. If they are OEM less than
60,000 miles old, then they are not likely to be the problem.
[color=blue]
>
> Does the engine have a crank angle sensor of some sort, or a distributor?
> If the crank position is not being reported to the ECU, it will
> a) not cause the ignition control module to produce spark; and
> b) not fire the injectors because of a).[/color]

IIRC, it has a distributor.
[color=blue]
>
> If the engine really is running lean, this suggests that another engine
> sensor or possibly an O2 sensor is malfunctioning.
>
> When it won't start, does the check engine light come on? Are you getting
> a error code from the ECU? Are you getting any error codes from the ECU
> that are not severe enough to turn on the check engine light ?
>
> Or it may just be a series of poor connections caused by age. Pull all the
> engine connectors you can see and give them squirt with WD40, then R/R the
> connections a few times. See if the problem goes away.
>
> Stewart DIBBS
>[/color]
--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply


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Old 08-27-2005, 09:18 PM   #4 (permalink)
Ray O
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Re: 92 Landcruiser hard hot starting


"Scott" <Toyota92Landcruiser@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1125151583.797368.39570@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
>I have a 1992 Landcruiser with ~170k miles I've owned since new. It
> has been almost troublefree until this summer. Now it frequently won't
> start when hot. It cranks fine but won't fire at all. This problem
> only occurs when it is hot and has been shut off for a couple of
> minutes up to about a half hour (hot time under the hood). It will
> start up right after shut down just fine.[/color]

Take it to a shop with a fuel pressure gauge. It sounds like the fuel
pressure regulator is bleeding down instead of holding pressure. On a cold
start, the cold start injector gives an extra shot of fuel to help start and
mask the problem.
[color=blue]
>
> I have pulled a plug and they are dry (no fuel on them) during these
> episodes. However there also is no spark if I ground a plug and crank
> it during an episode.
>
> One other pertinent detail is that I recently replaced the original
> thermostat because the engine had begun to run hotter under load. The
> old OEM thermostat was significantly slower opening than the new OEM
> replacement during a hot water test and in fact wouldn't open fully
> until the the water boiled.
>
> I've scoured the internet and eventually came up with the pick-up coil
> in the distributor as the most likely culprit among many possibilities.
> I changed it without any luck.
>
> I'm still thinking electrical but not ruling out fuel problems. I am
> wondering if the 13+ years and recent extra heat has been cooking
> something. I would have already tried replacing the ignition control
> module but my local Toyota parts guy with 12 years experience says he
> has never sold one to the public or for the dealer shop. This of
> course doesn't mean it isn't bad but I thought I would seek some advise
> before I continue shotgunning my repair process. Any thoughts would be
> appreciated.
>
> Scott
>[/color]
One other thing to try - on a U.S. spec Crusher, there is a wire that goes
to the fuel pump in the LR quarter panel that comes loose, although it tends
to not start whether hot or cold.

I think the no spark is a red herring - start by checking fuel pressure
under the conditions when it is hard starting.
--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply


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