coasting to improve fuel efficiency?

Hi all,

I read recently that some hobbyists had modified
their Priuses (Prii?) to coast as much as possible
and thereby achieved 200 mpg on the racetrack.

My questions are:

1. how many mpg did they get on regular roads?

2. can this principle be applied to everyday
driving using a gasoline-powered stickshift car?

Thanks.

"Bush is a Fascist" <z333r@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1125525990.769921.280780@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
> Hi all,
>
> I read recently that some hobbyists had modified
> their Priuses (Prii?) to coast as much as possible
> and thereby achieved 200 mpg on the racetrack.
>
> My questions are:
>
> 1. how many mpg did they get on regular roads?[/color]

That 200 mpg is only for the first 10 miles on any trip, and after that,
their mileage is the same as any other Prius.

[color=blue]
>
> 2. can this principle be applied to everyday
> driving using a gasoline-powered stickshift car?[/color]

Basically they spent around $30,000 in parts to add additional batteries and
an internal charger. The batteries only lasted for the for the first 10
miles, then they ran out and the regular Prius system took over. Add the
cost that a regular consumer would have to pay someone to design and install
the system and it could be an additional $40,000 on top of the base cost of
the car. That's kind of a lot of money to spend to get improved mileage
only for the first 10 miles of a trip and then regular mileage for the rest
of the trip, which is why auto manufacturers have not yet tried to
commercially market the "booster batteries".

--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply

Have you heard of Oklahoma Overdrive? Popularized when the dust bowl
refugees practiced principle #2 whenever they could on their journey to
California -- but especially during downhill runs in the mountains.

You can do it, but it frowned upon by the authorities.

"Bush is a Fascist" <z333r@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1125525990.769921.280780@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
> Hi all,
>
> I read recently that some hobbyists had modified
> their Priuses (Prii?) to coast as much as possible
> and thereby achieved 200 mpg on the racetrack.
>
> My questions are:
>
> 1. how many mpg did they get on regular roads?
>
> 2. can this principle be applied to everyday
> driving using a gasoline-powered stickshift car?
>
> Thanks.
>[/color]

Too bad that coasting is illegal on the roads. This is a law that I
disagree with and I coast all the time in my Jeep 5 spd. Tougher to do in
the Sienna....
Tomes

Tomes wrote:
[color=blue]
> Too bad that coasting is illegal on the roads. This is a law that I
> disagree with[/color]

I don't believe you. Tell us which law and which state.
Even if it exists, I bet such laws are not universal.

"Bush is a Fascist" <z333r@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1125525990.769921.280780@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
> Hi all,
>
> I read recently that some hobbyists had modified
> their Priuses (Prii?) to coast as much as possible
> and thereby achieved 200 mpg on the racetrack.
>
> My questions are:
>
> 1. how many mpg did they get on regular roads?
>
> 2. can this principle be applied to everyday
> driving using a gasoline-powered stickshift car?[/color]

No, it can not be applied to a manual stick shift car. It can't be applied
to ANY car that is driven on the streets and highways because it is ILLEGAL
to coast in Neutral or with the clutch pedal depressed.

Yes, the theory works well, no the practice doesn't work at all. There are
huge safety implications with cars rolling along down hill doing 70 in
Neutral.

[color=blue]
>There are huge safety implications with cars rolling along down hill doing 70 in[/color]
Neutral.

Why do you think this is a valid statement? In any situation,
protecting yourself involves braking, not accelerating.

1. if there is an accident ahead of you, brake.

2. if there is an accident behind you, continue.

3. if there is an accident happening at either side,
brake.

OK, tell us why it is illegal to coast in Neutral, and provide ANY state's
vehicle code that says it is OK to coast in Neutral. (Coasting in Neutral
and coasting with the clutch pedal depressed is the same thing, by the way.)


California Vehicle Code

21710 - Coasting Prohibited
The driver of a motor vehicle when traveling on down grade upon any highway
shall not coast with the gears of such vehicle in neutral.


The only possible reason is that there is an inherent safety issue with
operating a motor vehicle in this manner.





"Bush is a Fascist" <z333r@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1125593714.999158.169660@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
>[color=green]
>>There are huge safety implications with cars rolling along down hill doing
>>70 in[/color]
> Neutral.
>
> Why do you think this is a valid statement? In any situation,
> protecting yourself involves braking, not accelerating.
>
> 1. if there is an accident ahead of you, brake.
>
> 2. if there is an accident behind you, continue.
>
> 3. if there is an accident happening at either side,
> brake.
>[/color]

Go to [url]www.google.com[/url].

Type in the search box these three words

coasting neutral prohibited

Count of the number of state laws that pop up prohibiting the practice.

Then read a few other articles from the safety publications that
pop-up. Then report back. :>)

On 1 Sep 2005 12:35:22 -0700, [email]timbirr@mailcity.com[/email] wrote:
[color=blue]
>Go to [url]www.google.com[/url].
>
>Type in the search box these three words
>
>coasting neutral prohibited
>
>Count of the number of state laws that pop up prohibiting the practice.
>
>Then read a few other articles from the safety publications that
>pop-up. Then report back. :>)[/color]

All well and good....but how in the hell would they ever catch you?

LOL

--

Scott in Florida

"A Democratic shift to the right risks inflaming the party's Angry
Left base, while a shift to the left would surely cost the party
whatever support it has left from normal people."

James Taranto - Wall Street Journal

Ah, Scott, they get you -- or what is left -- when they scrape you up
from the wreckage after your brakes overheat and fail after cruising
down the continential divide. ;>)

On 1 Sep 2005 16:14:21 -0700, [email]timbirr@mailcity.com[/email] wrote:
[color=blue]
>Ah, Scott, they get you -- or what is left -- when they scrape you up
>from the wreckage after your brakes overheat and fail after cruising
>down the continential divide. ;>)[/color]

Ah ok....

LOL

--

Scott in Florida

"A Democratic shift to the right risks inflaming the party's Angry
Left base, while a shift to the left would surely cost the party
whatever support it has left from normal people."

James Taranto - Wall Street Journal

On Thu, 1 Sep 2005 10:33:30 -0700, "J Strickland" <spam@nospam.net>
wrote:
[color=blue]
>OK, tell us why it is illegal to coast in Neutral, and provide ANY state's
>vehicle code that says it is OK to coast in Neutral. (Coasting in Neutral
>and coasting with the clutch pedal depressed is the same thing, by the way.)
>
>California Vehicle Code
>
>21710 - Coasting Prohibited
>The driver of a motor vehicle when traveling on down grade upon any highway
>shall not coast with the gears of such vehicle in neutral.[/color]

[url]http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21710.htm[/url] If you don't believe
him.
[color=blue]
>The only possible reason is that there is an inherent safety issue with
>operating a motor vehicle in this manner.[/color]

I can tell you /exactly/ where this law came from, even without a
reference footnote on the bottom saying something like "Enacted 1935"
(when the first statewide regulations were codified) - remember
totally unsynchronized transmissions, AKA "Crash Boxes"? Many cars
got synchros as soon as they were invented, but some trucks are STILL
sold that way.

Not like the old VW Beetles or MG's that didn't have a Synchro on
First, making it a bear to get into first at anything but a dead stop,
I'm talking they didn't have a synchro on ANY gear. You either
double-clutched, or you matched road speed and RPM's and slid the gear
shift home for the next gear at the right moment every time, or you
simply didn't go anywhere. If you sat there and ground on them at
every shift, you'd quickly destroy the gearbox.

Especially in a hilly state like California, there were too many
instances where a heavy truck or car shifted out of gear on a hill and
started coasting nice and easy... Then the hill got steeper...

Then the brakes started fading or weren't strong enough for the hill
and load, and they started picking up speed. (Remember all-mechanical
brakes? And later hydraulic drums?) Then they tried to shift into
gear while moving for some engine braking and simply couldn't get the
tranny to go back into gear (GRRRUNNNNNCH!)...

Followed moments later by the vehicle doing one of the following:
A. Too fast for the curve, Over the edge of the cliff.
B. Too fast for the curve, Smack into the side of a hill.
C. Too fast for the rough road, Lose control and roll or crash.
D. Unable to keep to their side of the road in a right-hand curve,
collect a few more unfortunate souls going the other way, then see A B
or C.
E. Bounce off the side of the hill or the old steel guardrail on a
left hand curve, lose control, cross the line, hit a few cars full of
people, then see A B or C.

In a non-synchro box, once those gears on the countershafts stop
spinning while you are underway, you play hell getting them spinning
again. When you are on the verge of losing control anyways is NOT the
time to try and play with the gears. You have about five seconds to
do everything right, in the right order, and get it together in time
to save yourself (and a bunch of innocent people that will be in the
way) - Tick... Tick... Tick... Tick...

--<< Bruce >>--

--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

"Bruce L. Bergman" <blPYTHONbergman@earthlink.invalid> wrote in message
news:pt4fh1hnf4vk3eocbr2qq1m81tp88k95bs@4ax.com...[color=blue]
> On Thu, 1 Sep 2005 10:33:30 -0700, "J Strickland" <spam@nospam.net>
> wrote:
>[color=green]
>>OK, tell us why it is illegal to coast in Neutral, and provide ANY state's
>>vehicle code that says it is OK to coast in Neutral. (Coasting in Neutral
>>and coasting with the clutch pedal depressed is the same thing, by the
>>way.)
>>
>>California Vehicle Code
>>
>>21710 - Coasting Prohibited
>>The driver of a motor vehicle when traveling on down grade upon any
>>highway
>>shall not coast with the gears of such vehicle in neutral.[/color]
>
> [url]http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21710.htm[/url] If you don't believe
> him.
>[color=green]
>>The only possible reason is that there is an inherent safety issue with
>>operating a motor vehicle in this manner.[/color]
>
> I can tell you /exactly/ where this law came from, even without a
> reference footnote on the bottom saying something like "Enacted 1935"
> (when the first statewide regulations were codified) - remember
> totally unsynchronized transmissions, AKA "Crash Boxes"? Many cars
> got synchros as soon as they were invented, but some trucks are STILL
> sold that way.
>
> Not like the old VW Beetles or MG's that didn't have a Synchro on
> First, making it a bear to get into first at anything but a dead stop,
> I'm talking they didn't have a synchro on ANY gear. You either
> double-clutched, or you matched road speed and RPM's and slid the gear
> shift home for the next gear at the right moment every time, or you
> simply didn't go anywhere. If you sat there and ground on them at
> every shift, you'd quickly destroy the gearbox.
>
> Especially in a hilly state like California, there were too many
> instances where a heavy truck or car shifted out of gear on a hill and
> started coasting nice and easy... Then the hill got steeper...
>
> Then the brakes started fading or weren't strong enough for the hill
> and load, and they started picking up speed. (Remember all-mechanical
> brakes? And later hydraulic drums?) Then they tried to shift into
> gear while moving for some engine braking and simply couldn't get the
> tranny to go back into gear (GRRRUNNNNNCH!)...
>
> Followed moments later by the vehicle doing one of the following:
> A. Too fast for the curve, Over the edge of the cliff.
> B. Too fast for the curve, Smack into the side of a hill.
> C. Too fast for the rough road, Lose control and roll or crash.
> D. Unable to keep to their side of the road in a right-hand curve,
> collect a few more unfortunate souls going the other way, then see A B
> or C.
> E. Bounce off the side of the hill or the old steel guardrail on a
> left hand curve, lose control, cross the line, hit a few cars full of
> people, then see A B or C.
>
> In a non-synchro box, once those gears on the countershafts stop
> spinning while you are underway, you play hell getting them spinning
> again. When you are on the verge of losing control anyways is NOT the
> time to try and play with the gears. You have about five seconds to
> do everything right, in the right order, and get it together in time
> to save yourself (and a bunch of innocent people that will be in the
> way) - Tick... Tick... Tick... Tick...
>
> --<< Bruce >>--
>
> --
> Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
> Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
> 5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
> Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.[/color]

Good, informative explanation Bruce!

BTW, shifting an automatic transmission into neutral and then back into gear
at 60 MPH doesn't exactly help its durability.
--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply

"Bush is a Fascist" <z333r@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1125587098.440943.187020@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
>
> Tomes wrote:
>[color=green]
> > Too bad that coasting is illegal on the roads. This is a law that I
> > disagree with[/color]
>
> I don't believe you. Tell us which law and which state.
> Even if it exists, I bet such laws are not universal.
>[/color]
I am not going to go look it all up, but we had this discussion at length in
the Jeep NGs. Folks actually were pulled over for it. The evidence stated
was state/province, not national.