"max" <max@echoforum.com> wrote in message
news:432a89a6$0$1913$6cceaf45@news.echoforum.com...[color=blue]
> 2006 Toyota Avalon
>
> Year 2006
> Model Avalon XLS Sedan
> Transmission
> Exterior Color Blizzard Pearl
> Interior Color Graphite
> MSRP * $33,741
>
> more details about The latest Toyota Avalon at
> [url]http://www.toyotaoflewisville.com/[/url][/color]
Are you trying to drive buyers away? What idiot would pay that much for a
second rate car? If you have enough cash to pay nearly $34K for a car, you
at least ough to get something better than a strteched Camry. For that kind
of money you can get a 3 series BMW. Seems like a no brainer - Boring over
priced Toyota vs BMW.
"C. E. White" <cewhite3@removemindspring.com> wrote in message
news:432ac237_1@news1.prserv.net...[color=blue]
>
> "max" <max@echoforum.com> wrote in message
> news:432a89a6$0$1913$6cceaf45@news.echoforum.com...[color=green]
>> 2006 Toyota Avalon
>>
>> Year 2006
>> Model Avalon XLS Sedan
>> Transmission
>> Exterior Color Blizzard Pearl
>> Interior Color Graphite
>> MSRP * $33,741
>>
>> more details about The latest Toyota Avalon at
>> [url]http://www.toyotaoflewisville.com/[/url][/color]
>
> Are you trying to drive buyers away? What idiot would pay that much for a
> second rate car? If you have enough cash to pay nearly $34K for a car, you
> at least ough to get something better than a strteched Camry. For that
> kind
> of money you can get a 3 series BMW. Seems like a no brainer - Boring over
> priced Toyota vs BMW.
>
> Ed
>[/color]
I would certainly prefer a BMW over a Toyota but to be fair, the Avalon is
not a "stretched Camry."
jor
In article <432ac237_1@news1.prserv.net>, C. E. White
<cewhite3@removemindspring.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
> "max" <max@echoforum.com> wrote in message
> news:432a89a6$0$1913$6cceaf45@news.echoforum.com...[color=green]
> > 2006 Toyota Avalon
> >
> > Year 2006
> > Model Avalon XLS Sedan
> > Transmission
> > Exterior Color Blizzard Pearl
> > Interior Color Graphite
> > MSRP * $33,741
> >
> > more details about The latest Toyota Avalon at
> > [url]http://www.toyotaoflewisville.com/[/url][/color]
>
> Are you trying to drive buyers away? What idiot would pay that much for a
> second rate car? If you have enough cash to pay nearly $34K for a car, you
> at least ough to get something better than a strteched Camry. For that kind
> of money you can get a 3 series BMW. Seems like a no brainer - Boring over
> priced Toyota vs BMW.[/color]
It's not a stretched Camry anymore. It shares the Lexus platform now.
I'm glad you have the BMW as an alternative. It's nice we all can be
happy.
We might be happier, though, if Toyota dealers weren't posting ads in
the newsgroup. Personally, I'd regard that indiscretion as a
deal-breaker.
"Brent Secombe" <bsecombover@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:160920051012198815%bsecombover@yahoo.co.uk...[color=blue]
> In article <432ac237_1@news1.prserv.net>, C. E. White
> <cewhite3@removemindspring.com> wrote:
>[color=green]
> > "max" <max@echoforum.com> wrote in message
> > news:432a89a6$0$1913$6cceaf45@news.echoforum.com...[color=darkred]
> > > 2006 Toyota Avalon
> > >
> > > Year 2006
> > > Model Avalon XLS Sedan
> > > Transmission
> > > Exterior Color Blizzard Pearl
> > > Interior Color Graphite
> > > MSRP * $33,741
> > >
> > > more details about The latest Toyota Avalon at
> > > [url]http://www.toyotaoflewisville.com/[/url][/color]
> >
> > Are you trying to drive buyers away? What idiot would pay that much for[/color][/color]
a[color=blue][color=green]
> > second rate car? If you have enough cash to pay nearly $34K for a car,[/color][/color]
you[color=blue][color=green]
> > at least ough to get something better than a strteched Camry. For that[/color][/color]
kind[color=blue][color=green]
> > of money you can get a 3 series BMW. Seems like a no brainer - Boring[/color][/color]
over[color=blue][color=green]
> > priced Toyota vs BMW.[/color]
>
> It's not a stretched Camry anymore. It shares the Lexus platform now.[/color]
What is a Lexus but a guzzied up Toyota? And what makes an Avalon more than
a stretched Camry? They share the same basic layout and suspension type (if
not actual parts), transmission, and engine family (the Avalon just gets the
3.5L version). In looking at the specs, the biggest different is the
outrageous price for the Avalon. In the end, it is still just another
adequately powered front wheel drive econo-box trying to be something it
isn't. It is a well assembled third rate design. If you can live with that
sort of mediocrity, a Buick LeSabre costs a lot less. A Ford 500 is a lot
less, and has more room. Heck, a Grand Marquis is less and has more room. I
can't see paying a premium price an Avalon. But that is just me. I suppose
they are lining up at the Toyota store even as I speak.
Brent Secombe wrote:
[color=blue]
> In article <432ac237_1@news1.prserv.net>, C. E. White
> <cewhite3@removemindspring.com> wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Are you trying to drive buyers away? What idiot would pay that much for a
>> second rate car? If you have enough cash to pay nearly $34K for a car, you
>> at least ough to get something better than a strteched Camry. For that kind
>> of money you can get a 3 series BMW. Seems like a no brainer - Boring over
>> priced Toyota vs BMW.[/color]
>
> It's not a stretched Camry anymore. It shares the Lexus platform now.
>
> I'm glad you have the BMW as an alternative. It's nice we all can be
> happy.
>
> We might be happier, though, if Toyota dealers weren't posting ads in
> the newsgroup. Personally, I'd regard that indiscretion as a
> deal-breaker.
>
> Brent[/color]
"C.E. White" is a troll who has been known to throw around misinformation.
Pay no attention to him.
On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 07:08:20 -0700, "jor" <jor@jor.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>
>"C. E. White" <cewhite3@removemindspring.com> wrote in message
>news:432ac237_1@news1.prserv.net...[color=green]
>>
>> "max" <max@echoforum.com> wrote in message
>> news:432a89a6$0$1913$6cceaf45@news.echoforum.com...[color=darkred]
>>> 2006 Toyota Avalon
>>>
>>> Year 2006
>>> Model Avalon XLS Sedan
>>> Transmission
>>> Exterior Color Blizzard Pearl
>>> Interior Color Graphite
>>> MSRP * $33,741
>>>
>>> more details about The latest Toyota Avalon at
>>> [url]http://www.toyotaoflewisville.com/[/url][/color]
>>
>> Are you trying to drive buyers away? What idiot would pay that much for a
>> second rate car? If you have enough cash to pay nearly $34K for a car, you
>> at least ough to get something better than a strteched Camry. For that
>> kind
>> of money you can get a 3 series BMW. Seems like a no brainer - Boring over
>> priced Toyota vs BMW.
>>
>> Ed
>>[/color]
>I would certainly prefer a BMW over a Toyota but to be fair, the Avalon is
>not a "stretched Camry."
>jor
>[/color]
You wouldn't prefer a BMW over an Avalon after the warranty is over!
On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 09:00:22 +0000, max wrote:
[color=blue]
> 2006 Toyota Avalon
>
> Year 2006
> Model Avalon XLS Sedan
> Transmission
> Exterior Color Blizzard Pearl
> Interior Color Graphite
> MSRP * $33,741
>
> more details about The latest Toyota Avalon at
> [url]http://www.toyotaoflewisville.com/[/url][/color]
I just have an opinion. Which part of my post is not ture? Some of it
is clearly opinion, but the facts are pretty clear - if you buy an
Avalon you are buying little more than an enlarged Camry and paying
thousands more. There is nothing technologically significant in an
Avalon. I doubt that anyone thinks an Avalon could keep up with a 3
Series BMW, even though it costs more. The extra interior room over a
Camry comes at a high price. If you want a rooier car than a Camry a
LaSabre, Five Hundred or Grand Marquis all provide increased room for a
much lower price than the Avalon.If you want better performacne than a
Camry, a Maxima or BMW 3 series are better choices. I admit the new
Avalon is a big improvment over the previous generation (which was
literally a stetched Camry), but it still a car without a clear market.
Too overpriced to be a family car, too slow to be a performance car,
and too dull to attract the the people looking to impress the masses. I
can only assume it appeals the the Toyota drones who line up to buy any
thing Toyota sells becasue it a Toyota. In the end it is an incredibly
dull mass market car at a premium price.
On 16 Sep 2005 17:33:35 -0700, "Ed White" <ce.white3@gmail.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>I just have an opinion. Which part of my post is not ture? Some of it
>is clearly opinion, but the facts are pretty clear - if you buy an
>Avalon you are buying little more than an enlarged Camry and paying
>thousands more. There is nothing technologically significant in an
>Avalon. I doubt that anyone thinks an Avalon could keep up with a 3
>Series BMW, even though it costs more. The extra interior room over a
>Camry comes at a high price. If you want a rooier car than a Camry a
>LaSabre, Five Hundred or Grand Marquis all provide increased room for a
>much lower price than the Avalon.If you want better performacne than a
>Camry, a Maxima or BMW 3 series are better choices. I admit the new
>Avalon is a big improvment over the previous generation (which was
>literally a stetched Camry), but it still a car without a clear market.
>Too overpriced to be a family car, too slow to be a performance car,
>and too dull to attract the the people looking to impress the masses. I
>can only assume it appeals the the Toyota drones who line up to buy any
>thing Toyota sells becasue it a Toyota. In the end it is an incredibly
>dull mass market car at a premium price.
>
> Toyota Ford
>Buick
> Spec Avalon Five Hundred LeSabre
> Exterior length 197.2" 200.7" 200.0"
> Exterior body width 72.8" 74.5" 73.5"
> Exterior height 58.5" 60.1" 57.0"
> Wheelbase 111.0" 112.9" 112.2"
> Front legroom 41.3" 41.3" 42.4"
> Rear legroom 40.9" 41.3" 39.9"
> Front headroom 38.8" 39.4" 38.8"
> Rear headroom 37.5" 38.7" 37.8"
> Front hiproom 55.8" 53.7" 56.1"
> Rear hiproom 56.2" 53.7" 56.6"
> Front shoulder room 59.4" 57.8" 59.1"
> Rear shoulder room 58.2" 57.6" 58.7"
> Passenger volume 106.9 cu.ft. 107.1 cu.ft. 107.6 cu.ft.
> MSRP $33,815 $22,165 $26,725
> 0-60 6.7 sec 8.7 sec 8.8
>sec
> EPA Mileage 22/31 21/29 19/30
>
>So what do you get for your $11,600+ or $7,000+ when you buy an Avalon
>besides a little more horsepower?[/color]
Ed White whined:
[color=blue]
> I just have an opinion.[/color]
Calling Toyota buyers "idiots" or "drones" makes you look stupid. I also
recall you recently unleashing a ton of misinformation when comparing a
Camry to an Impala--and getting busted for it.
[color=blue]
> Which part of my post is not ture?[/color]
Since you didn't quote, what part are you referring to?
Never mind, I found it.
The part where you said the Avalon is a stretched Camry is wrong, for one.
[color=blue]
> Some of it
> is clearly opinion, but the facts are pretty clear -[/color]
Not when you are comparing cars in different classes, which is what you have
done here. And your endless "idiot" and "drone" slams don't figure into the
facts either.
[color=blue]
> if you buy an
> Avalon you are buying little more than an enlarged Camry and paying
> thousands more.[/color]
Again, the current Avalon is based on a Lexus platform, not the Camry.
[color=blue]
> There is nothing technologically significant in an
> Avalon.[/color]
What is your definition of "technologically significant"? Electronic
keyless ignition and automatic sensing wipers (to name two) are not
technologically significant?
IMO, being the most technologically significant car in its class does NOT
automatically make it the best in its class.
[color=blue]
> I doubt that anyone thinks an Avalon could keep up with a 3
> Series BMW, even though it costs more.[/color]
I doubt that anyone who buys an Avalon even cares. It doesn't even compete
with the 3-series. Avalon is a semi-large luxury car; 3-series is a smaller
sporty car.
[color=blue]
> The extra interior room over a
> Camry comes at a high price. If you want a rooier car than a Camry a
> LaSabre, Five Hundred or Grand Marquis all provide increased room for a
> much lower price than the Avalon.[/color]
If kept way beyond the warranty period, the Avalon will likely cost less to
maintain over the long term than any of those.
[color=blue]
> If you want better performacne than a
> Camry, a Maxima or BMW 3 series are better choices.[/color]
Why are you using Camry in your comparison now? Camry doesn't compete with
Maxima or 3-Series. And what is your definition of "better"? Certainly not
reliable, that's for sure.
[color=blue]
> I admit the new
> Avalon is a big improvment over the previous generation (which was
> literally a stetched Camry), but it still a car without a clear market.
> Too overpriced to be a family car, too slow to be a performance car,
> and too dull to attract the the people looking to impress the masses.[/color]
Avalon is neither a family car nor a high performance car (well, it has the
acceleration, but not the handling). It is a soft riding luxury car without
the luxury nameplate, much like a Buick. So it is safe to say that it
competes with the LeSabre. Actually, the LeSabre and Park Avenue are being
replaced by the Lucerne this year.
[color=blue]
> I
> can only assume it appeals the the Toyota drones who line up to buy any
> thing Toyota sells becasue it a Toyota.[/color]
Again, knock it off with the "drones". I'm sure that most people who buy a
Toyota are not looking for excitement; they buy it because of its long
proven reputation for reliability (yes, it's not a myth, but a fact).
[color=blue]
> In the end it is an incredibly
> dull mass market car at a premium price.
>[/color]
Your opinion.
[color=blue]
> EPA Mileage 22/31 21/29 19/30
>[/color]
And there's another small advantage of Avalon... slightly better gas
mileage, something Toyota usually excels at.
[color=blue]
> So what do you get for your $11,600+ or $7,000+ when you buy an Avalon
> besides a little more horsepower?
>[/color]
What do you get? You get slightly lower refueling costs, a high probability
of reliability, and much lower maintenance costs if kept beyond the warranty
period.
If you don't like Toyota, fine. Just do yourself and the rest of this
newsgroup a favour... stop squawking about it with lies and insults toward
those who like it, and get the hell out of here.
"Scott in Florida" <JustAsk@Florida.com> wrote in message
news:olsmi19knbha8ouu2khito1lism6865ckk@4ax.com...[color=blue][color=green]
>>So what do you get for your $11,600+ or $7,000+ when you buy an Avalon
>>besides a little more horsepower?[/color]
>
> A car that will last past the warranty?[/color]
Well I have never owned a LeSabre, but a good friend has one that is 14
years old and has 175,000 miles. In all that time his most expensive repair
was a coil pack. My Mother is on her second Grand Marquis (a 1992, then a
2000). The only significant repair for either was an IAC on the 2000.
I've personally only owned one Toyota, a Cressida and it was a rancid piece
of crap. Slow, cramped, unreliable (A/C, transmission, starter, alternator,
relays, faded paint, faded interior - all in less than 7 years and 80,000
miles). I hated the car. I know multiple Toyota owners and I see them taking
their cars in for repairs just like owners of Buicks, Fords, Nissans, etc.,
etc.. The one thing it seems to me that Toyota owners have in common is a
belief that no matter how bad their Toyota is, everything else is worse. It
is just not true. Maybe Toyotas are slightly better than some brands, but
for most people, the difference is trivial and certainly not worth an extra
10% or 15% on the purchase price. Clearly there are thousands and thousands
of people that disagree. Maybe they are right, but I don't think they are. I
may buy a Toyota in the future (Tacomas and Prius' are interesting ) but it
won't be because it's a Toyota, it will be because if offers me something
beyond a hollow reputation at a good price. The "new" Avalon certainly
doesn't meet that requirement. As a friend of mine might say, it is EXTRA
ORDINARY.
On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 22:10:23 -0400, High Tech Misfit wrote:
[color=blue]
> Ed White whined:
>[/color]
<One Big Snipperoo!>
[color=blue][color=green]
>> I
>> can only assume it appeals the the Toyota drones who line up to buy any
>> thing Toyota sells becasue it a Toyota.[/color]
>
> Again, knock it off with the "drones". I'm sure that most people who buy a
> Toyota are not looking for excitement; they buy it because of its long
> proven reputation for reliability (yes, it's not a myth, but a fact).[/color]
I used to. They don't have anything exciting anymore... :(...
[color=blue]
>
>[color=green]
>> In the end it is an incredibly
>> dull mass market car at a premium price.
>>[/color]
> Your opinion.
>
>[color=green]
>> Toyota Ford
>> Buick
>> Spec Avalon Five Hundred LeSabre
>> Exterior length 197.2" 200.7" 200.0"
>> Exterior body width 72.8" 74.5" 73.5"
>> Exterior height 58.5" 60.1" 57.0"
>> Wheelbase 111.0" 112.9" 112.2"
>> Front legroom 41.3" 41.3" 42.4"
>> Rear legroom 40.9" 41.3" 39.9"
>> Front headroom 38.8" 39.4" 38.8"
>> Rear headroom 37.5" 38.7" 37.8"
>> Front hiproom 55.8" 53.7" 56.1"
>> Rear hiproom 56.2" 53.7" 56.6"
>> Front shoulder room 59.4" 57.8" 59.1"
>> Rear shoulder room 58.2" 57.6" 58.7"
>> Passenger volume 106.9 cu.ft. 107.1 cu.ft. 107.6 cu.ft.[/color]
>
> The differences in these dimensions between Avalon and the others are
> insignificant.
>
>[color=green]
>> MSRP $33,815 $22,165 $26,725
>> 0-60 6.7 sec 8.7 sec 8.8
>> sec[/color]
>
> Advantage: Avalon!
>
>[color=green]
>> EPA Mileage 22/31 21/29 19/30
>>[/color]
> And there's another small advantage of Avalon... slightly better gas
> mileage, something Toyota usually excels at.
>
>[color=green]
>> So what do you get for your $11,600+ or $7,000+ when you buy an Avalon
>> besides a little more horsepower?
>>[/color]
> What do you get? You get slightly lower refueling costs, a high probability
> of reliability, and much lower maintenance costs if kept beyond the warranty
> period.
>
> If you don't like Toyota, fine. Just do yourself and the rest of this
> newsgroup a favour... stop squawking about it with lies and insults toward
> those who like it, and get the hell out of here.[/color]
On Sat, 17 Sep 2005 02:13:44 +0000, C. E. White wrote:
[color=blue]
>
> "Scott in Florida" <JustAsk@Florida.com> wrote in message
> news:olsmi19knbha8ouu2khito1lism6865ckk@4ax.com...[color=green][color=darkred]
>>>So what do you get for your $11,600+ or $7,000+ when you buy an Avalon
>>>besides a little more horsepower?[/color]
>>
>> A car that will last past the warranty?[/color]
>
> Well I have never owned a LeSabre, but a good friend has one that is 14
> years old and has 175,000 miles. In all that time his most expensive repair
> was a coil pack. My Mother is on her second Grand Marquis (a 1992, then a
> 2000). The only significant repair for either was an IAC on the 2000.
>
> I've personally only owned one Toyota, a Cressida and it was a rancid piece
> of crap. Slow, cramped, unreliable (A/C, transmission, starter, alternator,
> relays, faded paint, faded interior - all in less than 7 years and 80,000
> miles).[/color]
Was it blue or red?
Either way, washing and waxing are fairly essential. I have an '85 Corolla
GTS that the paint STILL looks great on, since it was washed and waxed 3-4
times a year.
[color=blue]
> I hated the car. I know multiple Toyota owners and I see them taking
> their cars in for repairs just like owners of Buicks, Fords, Nissans, etc.,
> etc..[/color]
There is a difference between 'repair' and 'maintenance'.
[color=blue]
> The one thing it seems to me that Toyota owners have in common is a
> belief that no matter how bad their Toyota is, everything else is worse.[/color]
Dangerous assumption: there are bad Toyotas.
[color=blue]
> It
> is just not true. Maybe Toyotas are slightly better than some brands, but
> for most people, the difference is trivial and certainly not worth an extra
> 10% or 15% on the purchase price.[/color]
BIG Difference. Toyotas don't develop problems that other brands do at
120,000-160,000 until they hit 220,000-260,000.
[color=blue]
> Clearly there are thousands and thousands
> of people that disagree. Maybe they are right, but I don't think they are. I
> may buy a Toyota in the future (Tacomas and Prius' are interesting ) but it
> won't be because it's a Toyota, it will be because if offers me something
> beyond a hollow reputation at a good price. The "new" Avalon certainly
> doesn't meet that requirement. As a friend of mine might say, it is EXTRA
> ORDINARY.
>
> Ed[/color]
Oh, and by the way, Ed... here's another lie:
[color=blue]
> If you want a rooier car than a Camry a
> LaSabre, Five Hundred or Grand Marquis all provide increased room for a
> much lower price than the Avalon.[/color]
So Avalon's closest competitor, LeSabre, costs about the same. Grand
Marquis is slightly less expensive to buy, but more expensive to refuel.
And here is yet another lie:
[color=blue]
> I doubt that anyone thinks an Avalon could keep up with a 3
> Series BMW, even though it costs more.[/color]
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