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Old 07-02-2006, 01:31 PM   #1 (permalink)
Keith
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RANDOM no spark / start 1993 Toyota Camry 2.2

My 1993 Toyota Camry 2.2L has an intermittent, no spark / start problem.
Sometime it starts and runs with no problem, other times it will crank with
no spark at all.

I've seen more than once when I use a spark tool to "see" if there's spark,
it will change from no spark to full and the car will start right up.

I've tried wiggling wires, bench tested all components by the manual etc.
etc.

I even stopped by the Toyota dealer for some insight and they agreed that
the car must stay "broken" long enough to diagnose. Just a few minutes ago,
I pushed it into the garage, put it on the lift and it started right up.

I have replaced the distributor/coil assembly (new unit), ignitor, ECM,
charcoal canister and spark plugs to no avail.

ANY ideas would be greatly appreciated.


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Old 07-02-2006, 01:52 PM   #2 (permalink)
Larry Van Wormer
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Re: RANDOM no spark / start 1993 Toyota Camry 2.2

Keith wrote:[color=blue]
> My 1993 Toyota Camry 2.2L has an intermittent, no spark / start problem.
> Sometime it starts and runs with no problem, other times it will crank with
> no spark at all.[/color]
[color=blue]
> I have replaced the distributor/coil assembly (new unit), ignitor, ECM,
> charcoal canister and spark plugs to no avail.
>
> ANY ideas would be greatly appreciated.[/color]

I've seen similar problems if an engine ground strap, or other grounding
connection in the circuits, is faulty. Have you checked that the
strap(s) are okay, and the contact points clean?

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
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Old 07-02-2006, 02:30 PM   #3 (permalink)
Keith
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Re: RANDOM no spark / start 1993 Toyota Camry 2.2

The ground at the transaxle/engine was a little "iffy" and it's spotless
now. I does start up now and I'll keep checking it...

*Thanks

"Larry Van Wormer" <lvw@bmts.com> wrote in message
news:1151866555.909362@donna.bmts.com...[color=blue]
> Keith wrote:[color=green]
>> My 1993 Toyota Camry 2.2L has an intermittent, no spark / start problem.
>> Sometime it starts and runs with no problem, other times it will crank
>> with no spark at all.[/color]
>[color=green]
>> I have replaced the distributor/coil assembly (new unit), ignitor, ECM,
>> charcoal canister and spark plugs to no avail.
>>
>> ANY ideas would be greatly appreciated.[/color]
>
> I've seen similar problems if an engine ground strap, or other grounding
> connection in the circuits, is faulty. Have you checked that the strap(s)
> are okay, and the contact points clean?
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet
> News==----
> [url]http://www.newsfeeds.com[/url] The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+
> Newsgroups
> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
> =----[/color]


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Old 07-03-2006, 06:17 AM   #4 (permalink)
m Ransley
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Re: RANDOM no spark / start 1993 Toyota Camry 2.2

Did you replace plug wires, do all plug wires show no spark. Is this the
reason you replaced the coil?

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Old 07-03-2006, 11:41 AM   #5 (permalink)
Keith
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Re: RANDOM no spark / start 1993 Toyota Camry 2.2

I didn't replace the plug wires as they are either all firing or non firing.

"m Ransley" <ransley@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:18413-44A8FCAF-548@storefull-3137.bay.webtv.net...[color=blue]
> Did you replace plug wires, do all plug wires show no spark. Is this the
> reason you replaced the coil?
>[/color]


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Old 07-03-2006, 02:33 PM   #6 (permalink)
m Ransley
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Re: RANDOM no spark / start 1993 Toyota Camry 2.2

Did you use toyota parts, is this the reason you replaced the coil,
coils are known camry issues and aftermarket electronics have a high
defect rate.

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Old 07-03-2006, 03:43 PM   #7 (permalink)
Keith
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Re: RANDOM no spark / start 1993 Toyota Camry 2.2

Yes, I used Toyota parts.

"m Ransley" <ransley@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:6590-44A970F3-691@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net...[color=blue]
> Did you use toyota parts, is this the reason you replaced the coil,
> coils are known camry issues and aftermarket electronics have a high
> defect rate.
>[/color]


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Old 07-03-2006, 06:29 PM   #8 (permalink)
Keith
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Re: RANDOM no spark / start 1993 Toyota Camry 2.2

So far so good Larry - I think your ground suggestion nailed it.

"Keith" <km7648_nospam_@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:I9Vpg.17825$Z67.1477@tornado.socal.rr.com...[color=blue]
> The ground at the transaxle/engine was a little "iffy" and it's spotless
> now. I does start up now and I'll keep checking it...
>
> *Thanks
>
> "Larry Van Wormer" <lvw@bmts.com> wrote in message
> news:1151866555.909362@donna.bmts.com...[color=green]
>> Keith wrote:[color=darkred]
>>> My 1993 Toyota Camry 2.2L has an intermittent, no spark / start problem.
>>> Sometime it starts and runs with no problem, other times it will crank
>>> with no spark at all.[/color]
>>[color=darkred]
>>> I have replaced the distributor/coil assembly (new unit), ignitor, ECM,
>>> charcoal canister and spark plugs to no avail.
>>>
>>> ANY ideas would be greatly appreciated.[/color]
>>
>> I've seen similar problems if an engine ground strap, or other grounding
>> connection in the circuits, is faulty. Have you checked that the strap(s)
>> are okay, and the contact points clean?
>>
>> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet
>> News==----
>> [url]http://www.newsfeeds.com[/url] The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+
>> Newsgroups
>> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
>> =----[/color]
>
>[/color]


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Old 07-04-2006, 09:43 AM   #9 (permalink)
Daniel
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Re: RANDOM no spark / start 1993 Toyota Camry 2.2

Keith wrote:[color=blue]
> So far so good Larry - I think your ground suggestion nailed it.[/color]
===============
So where did you find the questionable ground?
Battery?
Frame?

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Old 07-05-2006, 04:24 PM   #10 (permalink)
Keith
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Re: RANDOM no spark / start 1993 Toyota Camry 2.2

There's two grounds that leave the battery. One runs to the body (and was
OK).

The one that grounds the engine is on the transmission. It was the
questionable one and the car is still running fine.

"Daniel" <nospampls2002@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1152024225.869967.116270@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
> Keith wrote:[color=green]
>> So far so good Larry - I think your ground suggestion nailed it.[/color]
> ===============
> So where did you find the questionable ground?
> Battery?
> Frame?
>[/color]


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Old 07-06-2006, 11:43 AM   #11 (permalink)
Keith
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Re: RANDOM no spark / start 1993 Toyota Camry 2.2

Nuts. It happened again this morning after 3-4 days of working great.

Stopped about an hour and the car cranks but won't start. On about the 5th
try, it starts right up and drives away, no problem at all.

Again, I'd appreciate any suggestions on items that I can check out to
diagnose this random, no starting condition.

"Keith" <km7648_nospam_@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:OLhqg.11500$MF6.7354@tornado.socal.rr.com...[color=blue]
> So far so good Larry - I think your ground suggestion nailed it.
>
> "Keith" <km7648_nospam_@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:I9Vpg.17825$Z67.1477@tornado.socal.rr.com...[color=green]
>> The ground at the transaxle/engine was a little "iffy" and it's spotless
>> now. I does start up now and I'll keep checking it...
>>
>> *Thanks
>>
>> "Larry Van Wormer" <lvw@bmts.com> wrote in message
>> news:1151866555.909362@donna.bmts.com...[color=darkred]
>>> Keith wrote:
>>>> My 1993 Toyota Camry 2.2L has an intermittent, no spark / start
>>>> problem. Sometime it starts and runs with no problem, other times it
>>>> will crank with no spark at all.
>>>
>>>> I have replaced the distributor/coil assembly (new unit), ignitor, ECM,
>>>> charcoal canister and spark plugs to no avail.
>>>>
>>>> ANY ideas would be greatly appreciated.
>>>
>>> I've seen similar problems if an engine ground strap, or other grounding
>>> connection in the circuits, is faulty. Have you checked that the
>>> strap(s) are okay, and the contact points clean?
>>>
>>> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet
>>> News==----
>>> [url]http://www.newsfeeds.com[/url] The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+
>>> Newsgroups
>>> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
>>> =----[/color]
>>
>>[/color]
>
>[/color]


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Old 07-06-2006, 02:51 PM   #12 (permalink)
Larry Van Wormer
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Re: RANDOM no spark / start 1993 Toyota Camry 2.2

Keith wrote:[color=blue]
> Nuts. It happened again this morning after 3-4 days of working great.
>
> Stopped about an hour and the car cranks but won't start. On about the 5th
> try, it starts right up and drives away, no problem at all.
>
> Again, I'd appreciate any suggestions on items that I can check out to
> diagnose this random, no starting condition.[/color]

Nuts indeed! Thought it was fixed.

Do you have a voltmeter to confirm whether or not power is being
supplied to the ignition? If 12V is indeed always available, then it's
the ignition system itself that's at fault.

A CD of the repair manual, with wiring diagrams, is likely available on
eBay...

Larry Van Wormer

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
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Old 07-06-2006, 08:12 PM   #13 (permalink)
Keith
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Re: RANDOM no spark / start 1993 Toyota Camry 2.2

Yes, 12v is available to the system.

When the car won't start, I've also noticed that the gas tank appears to be
under a significant amount of vacuum. When you release the gas cap, there's
a distinct "whoosh" as air rushes in.

After doing this, the car restarts and you can drive away. It happened like
this twice today (a very warm day) in San Diego.

I expect that this might be as meaningful as sprinkling holy water on the
hood but it does seem to have an impact.

Does anyone in the group know of a fuel system switch that would shut off
the ECM or spark?

"Larry Van Wormer" <lvw@bmts.com> wrote in message
news:1152215681.9345@donna.bmts.com...[color=blue]
> Keith wrote:[color=green]
>> Nuts. It happened again this morning after 3-4 days of working great.
>>
>> Stopped about an hour and the car cranks but won't start. On about the
>> 5th try, it starts right up and drives away, no problem at all.
>>
>> Again, I'd appreciate any suggestions on items that I can check out to
>> diagnose this random, no starting condition.[/color]
>
> Nuts indeed! Thought it was fixed.
>
> Do you have a voltmeter to confirm whether or not power is being supplied
> to the ignition? If 12V is indeed always available, then it's the ignition
> system itself that's at fault.
>
> A CD of the repair manual, with wiring diagrams, is likely available on
> eBay...
>
> Larry Van Wormer
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet
> News==----
> [url]http://www.newsfeeds.com[/url] The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+
> Newsgroups
> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
> =----[/color]


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Old 07-15-2006, 02:59 PM   #14 (permalink)
Keith
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Re: RANDOM no spark / start 1993 Toyota Camry 2.2

Well the problem is still there and I could use any help that the group
could provide.

It seems now that the fuel tank thing was a red herring and had nothing to
do with the actual problem. The canister, purge, lines etc. have all been
checked and they're working fine. To be safe, I put on a new Toyota gas cap
as well.

I've tried the "wiggle test" on the wires and harnesses when it wouldn't /
would start and that seems to have no affect.

The spark / no spark will be at random and affects all cylinders. There
seems to be no pattern in the condition so I'm definitely guessing here.

Any new ideas out there?


"Keith" <km7648_nospam_@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:N4brg.24730$uy3.8549@tornado.socal.rr.com...[color=blue]
> Nuts. It happened again this morning after 3-4 days of working great.
>
> Stopped about an hour and the car cranks but won't start. On about the
> 5th try, it starts right up and drives away, no problem at all.
>
> Again, I'd appreciate any suggestions on items that I can check out to
> diagnose this random, no starting condition.
>
> "Keith" <km7648_nospam_@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:OLhqg.11500$MF6.7354@tornado.socal.rr.com...[color=green]
>> So far so good Larry - I think your ground suggestion nailed it.
>>
>> "Keith" <km7648_nospam_@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:I9Vpg.17825$Z67.1477@tornado.socal.rr.com...[color=darkred]
>>> The ground at the transaxle/engine was a little "iffy" and it's spotless
>>> now. I does start up now and I'll keep checking it...
>>>
>>> *Thanks
>>>
>>> "Larry Van Wormer" <lvw@bmts.com> wrote in message
>>> news:1151866555.909362@donna.bmts.com...
>>>> Keith wrote:
>>>>> My 1993 Toyota Camry 2.2L has an intermittent, no spark / start
>>>>> problem. Sometime it starts and runs with no problem, other times it
>>>>> will crank with no spark at all.
>>>>
>>>>> I have replaced the distributor/coil assembly (new unit), ignitor,
>>>>> ECM, charcoal canister and spark plugs to no avail.
>>>>>
>>>>> ANY ideas would be greatly appreciated.
>>>>
>>>> I've seen similar problems if an engine ground strap, or other
>>>> grounding connection in the circuits, is faulty. Have you checked that
>>>> the strap(s) are okay, and the contact points clean?
>>>>
>>>> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet
>>>> News==----
>>>> [url]http://www.newsfeeds.com[/url] The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
>>>> 120,000+ Newsgroups
>>>> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
>>>> =----
>>>
>>>[/color]
>>
>>[/color]
>
>[/color]


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Old 07-15-2006, 05:48 PM   #15 (permalink)
m Ransley
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Re: RANDOM no spark / start 1993 Toyota Camry 2.2

Try Igition Coil

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