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Old 09-30-2006, 01:00 PM   #1 (permalink)
ShadeTree via CarKB.com
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Troubleshooting a rebuilt A140E Transmission

The original problem with my 1997 Camry transmission was it stopped driving
forward completely. Reverse was no problem. I first thought valve body or
shift sensor. I gave the valve body a good cleaning check springs, pins, etc.
I noticed there was I black film on the parts. When I reinstalled the valve
body the car would move forward a little at very high RPM, but now it was the
same for reverse. I went backwards in this repair.

The forward clutch assembly was burnt up and you didn’t have to know what you
looking for to find it. I replaced the clutches, steels, and two pressure
plates. Compression checks where done to make sure things where working and
soaked everything well. Had a little hick up with the torque converter on the
reinstall but thanks to some input from the forum everything with that issue
is corrected.

The car started up fine but will not engage into any gear. I would think that
even if I put something in wrong which I’m 99.99% sure I didn’t the car would
buck, cough, go into a gear make a funny noise or something. It feels like
it’s a fluid pressure issue which I think takes me back to the valve body. I
will start the troubleshooting process with the computer and a pressure test.
The pump and TC checked out fine on the inside. Please I’ll take any input on
things to consider for troubleshooting this problem. I just don’t want to
think immediately that’s it is internal.

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Old 09-30-2006, 09:49 PM   #2 (permalink)
johngdole@hotmail.com
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Re: Troubleshooting a rebuilt A140E Transmission

When you check out the pump did you measure the line pressure from the
test port on the left front (?) of the case? I suppose you don't even
get the bump when moving from N to either D or R.

Is the manual shifting any different? Manual shifts add the help of
some brake bands. Were the o-rings in the solenods and pistons
replaced? How's the condition of the strainer. I assume it's may be all
plugged up when the first clutch failed. Fram has an excellent kit with
rubber-cork gasket.


ShadeTree via CarKB.com wrote:[color=blue]
> The original problem with my 1997 Camry transmission was it stopped driving
> forward completely. Reverse was no problem. I first thought valve body or
> shift sensor. I gave the valve body a good cleaning check springs, pins, etc.
> I noticed there was I black film on the parts. When I reinstalled the valve
> body the car would move forward a little at very high RPM, but now it was the
> same for reverse. I went backwards in this repair.
>
> The forward clutch assembly was burnt up and you didn't have to know what you
> looking for to find it. I replaced the clutches, steels, and two pressure
> plates. Compression checks where done to make sure things where working and
> soaked everything well. Had a little hick up with the torque converter on the
> reinstall but thanks to some input from the forum everything with that issue
> is corrected.
>
> The car started up fine but will not engage into any gear. I would think that
> even if I put something in wrong which I'm 99.99% sure I didn't the car would
> buck, cough, go into a gear make a funny noise or something. It feels like
> it's a fluid pressure issue which I think takes me back to the valve body. I
> will start the troubleshooting process with the computer and a pressure test.
> The pump and TC checked out fine on the inside. Please I'll take any input on
> things to consider for troubleshooting this problem. I just don't want to
> think immediately that's it is internal.
>
> --
> Message posted via CarKB.com
> [url]http://www.carkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/toyota-camry/200609/1[/url][/color]

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Old 10-01-2006, 03:11 PM   #3 (permalink)
johngdole@hotmail.com
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Re: Troubleshooting a rebuilt A140E Transmission

BTW, which rebuild kit did you buy. And do you really need to use
specialized tools, like the main shaft holder?

Also, the Aisin series of transmssions are know for sluggish line
pressure problems. This contributed to the soft shifts that many people
mistaken for a feature. A lot of wear and tear happens to the clutch
pack and brake bands the parts get coated good with black powder.
Frequent changing of the strainer (15K miles) helps cut down. Fram ATF
is a good kit.


ShadeTree via CarKB.com wrote:[color=blue]
> The original problem with my 1997 Camry transmission was it stopped driving
> forward completely. Reverse was no problem. I first thought valve body or
> shift sensor. I gave the valve body a good cleaning check springs, pins, etc.
> I noticed there was I black film on the parts. When I reinstalled the valve
> body the car would move forward a little at very high RPM, but now it was the
> same for reverse. I went backwards in this repair.
>
> The forward clutch assembly was burnt up and you didn't have to know what you
> looking for to find it. I replaced the clutches, steels, and two pressure
> plates. Compression checks where done to make sure things where working and
> soaked everything well. Had a little hick up with the torque converter on the
> reinstall but thanks to some input from the forum everything with that issue
> is corrected.
>
> The car started up fine but will not engage into any gear. I would think that
> even if I put something in wrong which I'm 99.99% sure I didn't the car would
> buck, cough, go into a gear make a funny noise or something. It feels like
> it's a fluid pressure issue which I think takes me back to the valve body. I
> will start the troubleshooting process with the computer and a pressure test.
> The pump and TC checked out fine on the inside. Please I'll take any input on
> things to consider for troubleshooting this problem. I just don't want to
> think immediately that's it is internal.
>
> --
> Message posted via CarKB.com
> [url]http://www.carkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/toyota-camry/200609/1[/url][/color]

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Old 10-02-2006, 08:38 AM   #4 (permalink)
ShadeTree via CarKB.com
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Re: Troubleshooting a rebuilt A140E Transmission

The computer shows no trouble codes which is good I guess. The transmission
which should read at least 53 psi in idle shows 0 pressure. Research says
look in these areas:

Trottle cable adjustment needed
Faulty regulator valve Main or throttle
Bad TC
Bad Pump

When the pump was out I measured it to specs and turned the bearing fine and
replaced the seals. The TC was cleaned. (Washed out) I checked to see if the
bearing would spin in the neck area, but did not check to see if it would
lock if turned counter clockwise not because I was lazy just was unware of
this fact until after reinstall.

I have replaced the gaskets in the valve body and cleaned the black film off
it from the cluth burn out. But not sure how to check to see if working
correctly. Some type of compression test maybe?

I really think the problem is in the valve body but not having any preasure
at all really seems extreme so maybe the TC or Oil pump. Any ideas on how
attack or troubleshoot this issue? Thanks for all input.


[email]johngdole@hotmail.com[/email] wrote:[color=blue]
>BTW, which rebuild kit did you buy. And do you really need to use
>specialized tools, like the main shaft holder?
>
>Also, the Aisin series of transmssions are know for sluggish line
>pressure problems. This contributed to the soft shifts that many people
>mistaken for a feature. A lot of wear and tear happens to the clutch
>pack and brake bands the parts get coated good with black powder.
>Frequent changing of the strainer (15K miles) helps cut down. Fram ATF
>is a good kit.
>[color=green]
>> The original problem with my 1997 Camry transmission was it stopped driving
>> forward completely. Reverse was no problem. I first thought valve body or[/color]
>[quoted text clipped - 22 lines][color=green]
>> Message posted via CarKB.com
>> [url]http://www.carkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/toyota-camry/200609/1[/url][/color][/color]

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Old 10-02-2006, 03:28 PM   #5 (permalink)
davemac
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Re: Troubleshooting a rebuilt A140E Transmission

If reverse was working before your work on the trans, then I would say
you must have put something back wrong. Reverse requires the highest
pressure. It does not make sense that your line pressure would read 0
psi. A weak pump or leak would cause a reduced pressure, but 0? Are
you sure you used the pressure test port behind the left wheel well
cover? If you are sure, then I would suspect that maybe you put one of
the valve body gaskets in the wrong way or the check balls, with the
result being one or more of the hydraulic ports on it is totally
blocked. Are you sure you did not miss a gasket or seal? 0 psi from
the valve body would require a totally seized regulator valve I would
think. Did you verify the valves moved freely before re-assembling the
VB? If you did not re-install some valve body components correctly, I
would think it could cause excessive leakage which maybe would bleed
off a ll your pressure, but I am not experienced enough to say.

Some other things to check:

1. Make sure the TC was installed properly.

2. Make sure the shift cam engages the manual shift valve after
re-installing the VB.

Before worrying about the throttle cable or the shift solenoids, make
sure you can get reverse and 1st and 2nd manually with the shifter.
The throttle cable will affect base pressure which should be over 50
PSI, not cause it to be 0.

good luck,

davemc

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Old 10-03-2006, 10:33 AM   #6 (permalink)
Daniel
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Re: Troubleshooting a rebuilt A140E Transmission

ShadeTree via CarKB.com wrote:[color=blue]
>
> The car started up fine but will not engage into any gear.[/color]
=============================
My guess would be the oil pump.
When you assemble the torque converter to the flex plate, you need to
first ensure the oil pump is installed fully and correctly engaged.
Have heard of others simply bolting the transaxle carefully back to the
engine and then no oil pressure.
A secondary concern is that if the oil pump is not properly installed,
metal wear and filings can accumulate around the input shaft seal.
This is all second hand information. Personally I keep the fluid extra
clean so I don't have to learn how to rebuild transmissions.

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Old 10-03-2006, 11:13 AM   #7 (permalink)
ShadeTree via CarKB.com
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Re: Troubleshooting a rebuilt A140E Transmission

I'm leaning towards the pump myself..I feel confident that oil pump and TC
installed correctly this time by actually putting the TC completly against
the oil pump to far (three clicks) and letting the TC bolts pull it back to
the correct position when attached to the flywheel. I believe my past issue
with it being installed incorrectly caused some damage.

So tonight I'll have a look. Thanks everyone for the input. The postive side
is I can now pull the engine and seperate the tranny completly in about 4
hours and have changed the timing belt, front seal and pump gaskets (oil &
water). Practice does make prefect and the 4th time is a charm.

Daniel wrote:[color=blue][color=green]
>> The car started up fine but will not engage into any gear.[/color]
>=============================
>My guess would be the oil pump.
>When you assemble the torque converter to the flex plate, you need to
>first ensure the oil pump is installed fully and correctly engaged.
>Have heard of others simply bolting the transaxle carefully back to the
>engine and then no oil pressure.
>A secondary concern is that if the oil pump is not properly installed,
>metal wear and filings can accumulate around the input shaft seal.
>This is all second hand information. Personally I keep the fluid extra
>clean so I don't have to learn how to rebuild transmissions.[/color]

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Old 10-03-2006, 03:40 PM   #8 (permalink)
Daniel
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Re: Troubleshooting a rebuilt A140E Transmission

ShadeTree via CarKB.com wrote:[color=blue]
> The postive side
> is I can now pull the engine and seperate the tranny completly in about 4
> hours and have changed the timing belt, front seal and pump gaskets (oil &
> water).[/color]
=====================
Would definitely change the rear main oil seal while you're right there
- as preventative maintenance.
Happy to hear any pointers about streamlining this task even though I
hope I never need to pull the tranmission.

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Old 10-03-2006, 09:01 PM   #9 (permalink)
johngdole@hotmail.com
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Re: Troubleshooting a rebuilt A140E Transmission

If you have it apart again, consider replacing the ATF strainer and
gasket (for example a Fram ATF kit). Blocked ATF strainer, or cooler
lines (tried blowing air through them while disconnected? Becareful of
oil spray) can contribute to car not moving. But I wonder if a strainer
can be that clogged to cause 0 psi at the main line port.

The valve pistons themselves, when dropped into the valve body should
fall freely to the bottom of their respective port holes but should not
have excessive clearance. Particularly the boost valve whose wear has
contributed to the known sluggish line pressure rise and soft shift
problems (excessive wear of clutches and brakes) of Aisin
transmissions. I am not sure if the regulator valve stuck in the over
pressure position can actually cause block off ATF.

I don't know where Aisin puts the main line pressure port. But if the
pump is turning and ATf pickup is not clogged, it's hard to get 0 psi.

Please keep us posted. Inquiring minds like ours like to know.


ShadeTree via CarKB.com wrote:[color=blue]
> The computer shows no trouble codes which is good I guess. The transmission
> which should read at least 53 psi in idle shows 0 pressure. Research says
> look in these areas:
>
> Trottle cable adjustment needed
> Faulty regulator valve Main or throttle
> Bad TC
> Bad Pump
>
> When the pump was out I measured it to specs and turned the bearing fine and
> replaced the seals. The TC was cleaned. (Washed out) I checked to see if the
> bearing would spin in the neck area, but did not check to see if it would
> lock if turned counter clockwise not because I was lazy just was unware of
> this fact until after reinstall.
>
> I have replaced the gaskets in the valve body and cleaned the black film off
> it from the cluth burn out. But not sure how to check to see if working
> correctly. Some type of compression test maybe?
>
> I really think the problem is in the valve body but not having any preasure
> at all really seems extreme so maybe the TC or Oil pump. Any ideas on how
> attack or troubleshoot this issue? Thanks for all input.
>[/color]

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Old 10-07-2006, 10:54 AM   #10 (permalink)
ShadeTree via CarKB.com
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Re: Troubleshooting a rebuilt A140E Transmission

So the oil pump looks good the rotation and measurements of the gears is at
specs, the gaskets are new and good and the oil pump fits onto the torque
converter just the way it should. That’s good news. The bad is I still don't
know why I didn't, don't have fluid pressure through the tranny.

I asked a transmission shop if they had one of those fancy machines I could
test my valve body. She informed me that if I had no movement it was not the
valve body. But if I have no pressure how can rule out the valve body?

I'm starting the troubleshooting process, I'm about to run compressed air
through some passages and see if I can get pressure in right areas before I
take off the valve body. Any suggestion would be greatly appreciated because
if not the oil pump then what else? TC?

Daniel wrote:[color=blue][color=green]
>> The postive side
>> is I can now pull the engine and seperate the tranny completly in about 4
>> hours and have changed the timing belt, front seal and pump gaskets (oil &
>> water).[/color]
>=====================
>Would definitely change the rear main oil seal while you're right there
>- as preventative maintenance.
>Happy to hear any pointers about streamlining this task even though I
>hope I never need to pull the tranmission.[/color]

--
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Old 10-16-2006, 01:47 AM   #11 (permalink)
markr
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Re: Troubleshooting a rebuilt A140E Transmission

let me know what you figured out cause I have a situation with a 92 A140E .
I changed the engine and now I have no transmission engagement!!!!! but I
think its the TC and how it is set up before its installed ??? because it
worked on the old engine and some of the tech's say that you have to rotate
TC 180 to get it to engage the oil pump???? I may have damaged mine cause I
heard a crack just before flush w engine and one rude shop owner told me I
broke it cause its very thin in there he said to get a used one be cheapest.
so look at the case and the area around pump to see if you broke it and what
you broke I'll be into mine later...keep me posted
ShadeTree wrote:[color=blue]
>So the oil pump looks good the rotation and measurements of the gears is at
>specs, the gaskets are new and good and the oil pump fits onto the torque
>converter just the way it should. That’s good news. The bad is I still don't
>know why I didn't, don't have fluid pressure through the tranny.
>
>I asked a transmission shop if they had one of those fancy machines I could
>test my valve body. She informed me that if I had no movement it was not the
>valve body. But if I have no pressure how can rule out the valve body?
>
>I'm starting the troubleshooting process, I'm about to run compressed air
>through some passages and see if I can get pressure in right areas before I
>take off the valve body. Any suggestion would be greatly appreciated because
>if not the oil pump then what else? TC?
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>>> The postive side
>>> is I can now pull the engine and seperate the tranny completly in about 4[/color][/color]
>[quoted text clipped - 5 lines][color=green]
>>Happy to hear any pointers about streamlining this task even though I
>>hope I never need to pull the tranmission.[/color][/color]

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Old 10-16-2006, 10:47 AM   #12 (permalink)
ShadeTree via CarKB.com
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Re: Troubleshooting a rebuilt A140E Transmission

My first engagement problem was the TC not fully seated into the oil pump
because I left the TC on the engine (drive plate) and installed the
transmission to the engine. That was wrong!!! I had no damage to the TC or
pump. But if you do have damage there will be no guessing at it. Has you may
already know the TC does needs to slip into the transmission first before
installing the tranny. You'll know it is in place by turning two clicks in
(may need to work it back & forth) and when installed correctly it may feel
like it is rubbing against the oil pump. This is o.k because when you attach
it to the drive plate it will be in the correct position.

My second problem with engagement came with no line pressure from a missed
placed washer in the valve body. When I reassembled the valve body a put a
washer in front of a spring instead of behind it. This valve was the main
regulator valve which its name says it all. Now the tranny will engage into
forward and reverse. If you didn't fool with the valve body at all then there
would be no reason to fool with it now.

Suggestion:

1. Check for line pressure: Fastest way, but can be messy is to take off the
cooling line put your thumb over it and have some one start the engine. At
idle the pressure should be no lower than 53 psi you should be able to get
feel for it with your thumb. Of course a compression tester is the most
accurate and less messy and the tranny has a testing port dedicated to this
test. If you have no pressure chances are good it is the oil pump.
2. Have pressure and no movement: now troubleshooting becomes a little bit
more complicated but I would start with the TC especially if the tranny was
working on the other engine. I think all TCs are basically rebuilt and should
cost around $150.00 that’s what I paid at the local tranny parts store.

I’m still having issues with mine and that it will not up shift and the the
engine break engages instead of up shifting..I’m thinking I might still have
valve body issues. If you have ideas I’ll take them.



markr wrote:[color=blue]
>let me know what you figured out cause I have a situation with a 92 A140E .
>I changed the engine and now I have no transmission engagement!!!!! but I
>think its the TC and how it is set up before its installed ??? because it
>worked on the old engine and some of the tech's say that you have to rotate
>TC 180 to get it to engage the oil pump???? I may have damaged mine cause I
>heard a crack just before flush w engine and one rude shop owner told me I
>broke it cause its very thin in there he said to get a used one be cheapest.
>so look at the case and the area around pump to see if you broke it and what
>you broke I'll be into mine later...keep me posted[color=green]
>>So the oil pump looks good the rotation and measurements of the gears is at
>>specs, the gaskets are new and good and the oil pump fits onto the torque[/color]
>[quoted text clipped - 15 lines][color=green][color=darkred]
>>>Happy to hear any pointers about streamlining this task even though I
>>>hope I never need to pull the tranmission.[/color][/color][/color]

--
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Old 10-16-2006, 09:54 PM   #13 (permalink)
johngdole@hotmail.com
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Re: Troubleshooting a rebuilt A140E Transmission

No upshift can be the shift valve or the forward clutch (F1?) and brake
band (B2?). Can the shops you work with test the VB? If you are certain
everything except the VB is in good order and the VB continues to be a
problem, then a $199 rebuild from the likes of Phoenix may help:

[url]www.phoenixhardparts.com/browseproducts/A140E-Standard-VB.HTML[/url]


ShadeTree via CarKB.com wrote:[color=blue]
> My first engagement problem was the TC not fully seated into the oil pump
> because I left the TC on the engine (drive plate) and installed the
> transmission to the engine. That was wrong!!! I had no damage to the TC or
> pump. But if you do have damage there will be no guessing at it. Has you may
> already know the TC does needs to slip into the transmission first before
> installing the tranny. You'll know it is in place by turning two clicks in
> (may need to work it back & forth) and when installed correctly it may feel
> like it is rubbing against the oil pump. This is o.k because when you attach
> it to the drive plate it will be in the correct position.
>
> My second problem with engagement came with no line pressure from a missed
> placed washer in the valve body. When I reassembled the valve body a put a
> washer in front of a spring instead of behind it. This valve was the main
> regulator valve which its name says it all. Now the tranny will engage into
> forward and reverse. If you didn't fool with the valve body at all then there
> would be no reason to fool with it now.
>
> Suggestion:
>
> 1. Check for line pressure: Fastest way, but can be messy is to take off the
> cooling line put your thumb over it and have some one start the engine. At
> idle the pressure should be no lower than 53 psi you should be able to get
> feel for it with your thumb. Of course a compression tester is the most
> accurate and less messy and the tranny has a testing port dedicated to this
> test. If you have no pressure chances are good it is the oil pump.
> 2. Have pressure and no movement: now troubleshooting becomes a little bit
> more complicated but I would start with the TC especially if the tranny was
> working on the other engine. I think all TCs are basically rebuilt and should
> cost around $150.00 that's what I paid at the local tranny parts store.
>
> I'm still having issues with mine and that it will not up shift and the the
> engine break engages instead of up shifting..I'm thinking I might still have
> valve body issues. If you have ideas I'll take them.
>[/color]

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