Noisy turning 4 wheel drive

Jeff Strickland wrote:[color=blue]
> "L" <web1000@shaw.ca> wrote in message
> news:1136872460.679071.230970@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...[color=green]
> >
> > Brad Taylor wrote:[color=darkred]
> >> Another mailer in this thread is calling this a pissing contest. Why
> >> can't
> >> you just take what I say about my experiences with my Jeep and my Toyota
> >> without criticizing everything I say.[/color]
> >
> > Its not a pissing contest. I believe that your Jeep didnt grind. That
> > can have many reasons which were discussed here.
> >
> > In general, a Jeep with conventional 4WD should grind and if it does
> > NOT then something is wrong with it.
> >[/color]
>
> In all fairness, we now know that Brad says he had a Jeep model equiupped
> with either the D27 or D300 transfer case. These are gear driven units that
> would survive driving around in 4WD on pavement, although it's still a bad
> idea and one ought to feel the driveline through the steering wheel while
> doing this sort of thing.[/color]

Am not familiar with the jeep trannies ... definatley a bad idea... It
would lilely make driving fast turns a little dangerous as well...

[color=blue]
> I agree with you completely, one ought NEVER drive a Part Time 4WD system on
> drive pavement with the 4WD engaged. At the very least, the steering will be
> affected, and on newer vehicles that focus on light weight components there
> is a very real probability of mechanical problems in the long run.[/color]

which Jeeps had a center diff? I was sure there were some ...
Matt

"L" <web1000@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:1136924663.510999.243380@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
>
> Jeff Strickland wrote:[color=green]
>> "L" <web1000@shaw.ca> wrote in message
>> news:1136872460.679071.230970@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...[color=darkred]
>> >
>> > Brad Taylor wrote:
>> >> Another mailer in this thread is calling this a pissing contest. Why
>> >> can't
>> >> you just take what I say about my experiences with my Jeep and my
>> >> Toyota
>> >> without criticizing everything I say.
>> >
>> > Its not a pissing contest. I believe that your Jeep didnt grind. That
>> > can have many reasons which were discussed here.
>> >
>> > In general, a Jeep with conventional 4WD should grind and if it does
>> > NOT then something is wrong with it.
>> >[/color]
>>
>> In all fairness, we now know that Brad says he had a Jeep model equiupped
>> with either the D27 or D300 transfer case. These are gear driven units
>> that
>> would survive driving around in 4WD on pavement, although it's still a
>> bad
>> idea and one ought to feel the driveline through the steering wheel while
>> doing this sort of thing.[/color]
>
> Am not familiar with the jeep trannies ... definatley a bad idea... It
> would lilely make driving fast turns a little dangerous as well...
>
>[/color]

It isn't a tranny issue, it's the tcase that we need to be concerned with.

Driving fast and taking a turn is probably okay, going slow and taking a
sharp turn is where the problems come from. In a high speed change of
direction, the turn is very slight -- as dictated by the speed involved. But
a low speed turn can be at full-lock on the steering wheel, and this is
where the maximum difference in tire speed will take place -- that is, the
difference in front and rear tires.

A tcase can be gear-driven or chain-driven. The gear driven models are
generally heavier and are more stout than the chain driven models. Chain
driven transfer cases came about as a result of CAFE rules that mandated
lighter vehicles to increase the fuel economy of the entire fleet. Saving a
pound or two on a million vehicles saves alot of fuel. I suspect the weight
savings is closer to 10 or 20 pounds than 1 or 2.



[color=blue][color=green]
>> I agree with you completely, one ought NEVER drive a Part Time 4WD system
>> on
>> drive pavement with the 4WD engaged. At the very least, the steering will
>> be
>> affected, and on newer vehicles that focus on light weight components
>> there
>> is a very real probability of mechanical problems in the long run.[/color]
>
> which Jeeps had a center diff? I was sure there were some ...
> Matt
>[/color]

This is an option on the Cherokee, and the Grand Cherokee -- but the Grands
very often have it because dealers like to order stuff with pre-selected
option packages, and the high end buyers of the Grand typically want what
amounts to All Wheel Drive. The standard Cherokee can have a center diff,
but most do not. I am not sure of the naming conventions, but Jeep offers
Select Trac and Command Trac, I think Command Trac is the one with the
center diff.

> In all fairness, we now know that Brad says he had a Jeep model equiupped[color=blue]
> with either the D27 or D300 transfer case. These are gear driven units[/color]
that[color=blue]
> would survive driving around in 4WD on pavement, although it's still a bad
> idea and one ought to feel the driveline through the steering wheel while
> doing this sort of thing.[/color]

So perhaps it was a gear driven model. I don't recall. I had a friend with
a '67 and he did the same thing without consequence. I was told it had a
heavy duty (Ford?) 4 spd transmission. It had been special ordered, then
the guy didn't buy it. Drive train wise it WAS very stout. I drove it that
way for four years without a single drive train issue. I did not feel it
through the steering. I had power steering, if that makes a difference. It
really isn't important now, except that no one beleived me and it was
pissing me off. Also, there was a report about Jeeps flipping over in a 45
mph J-curve. We used to do it all the time. We were flabergasted when we
heard that report. But their test also included such things as having a 250
football player standing in the back, which I never allowed anybody to
stand. The test was started as a result of kids getting killed in them at
turns. The CJ-5 got a bad rap for flipping over. I used to do do-nuts in
that thing (dirt) and never once came close to flipping. I never drove it
in 4wd on dry pavement.
[color=blue]
> I agree with you completely, one ought NEVER drive a Part Time 4WD system[/color]
on[color=blue]
> drive pavement with the 4WD engaged. At the very least, the steering will[/color]
be[color=blue]
> affected, and on newer vehicles that focus on light weight components[/color]
there[color=blue]
> is a very real probability of mechanical problems in the long run.[/color]

I don't drive my Toyota in 4WD on dry pavement for all the reasons above.

the thing is just that driving on 4WD on pavement is hard on the entire
drivetrain and tires. It gives you not really any advantage and may
affect handling ...

As to the chirping and grinding ... some people seem to hear everything
while others dont notice those things ... i know enough people who
drive with spools and claim it has no effect on the street and is
hardly noticable ...

Matt

"Brad Taylor" <BradTaylor@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:11sadsm41mp1g05@corp.supernews.com...[color=blue][color=green]
>> In all fairness, we now know that Brad says he had a Jeep model equiupped
>> with either the D27 or D300 transfer case. These are gear driven units[/color]
> that[color=green]
>> would survive driving around in 4WD on pavement, although it's still a
>> bad
>> idea and one ought to feel the driveline through the steering wheel while
>> doing this sort of thing.[/color]
>
> So perhaps it was a gear driven model. I don't recall. I had a friend
> with
> a '67 and he did the same thing without consequence. I was told it had a
> heavy duty (Ford?) 4 spd transmission.[/color]

The transmission makes no difference here. The tcase takes all of the abuse
that resluts from driving on the street in 4WD. Your Jeep had a gear driven
tcase, I thought you had a newer model with a chain driven unit. Your Toyota
has a chain driven tcase.




It had been special ordered, then[color=blue]
> the guy didn't buy it. Drive train wise it WAS very stout. I drove it
> that
> way for four years without a single drive train issue. I did not feel it
> through the steering. I had power steering, if that makes a difference.
> It
> really isn't important now, except that no one beleived me and it was
> pissing me off. Also, there was a report about Jeeps flipping over in a
> 45
> mph J-curve. We used to do it all the time. We were flabergasted when we
> heard that report. But their test also included such things as having a
> 250
> football player standing in the back, which I never allowed anybody to
> stand. The test was started as a result of kids getting killed in them at
> turns. The CJ-5 got a bad rap for flipping over. I used to do do-nuts in
> that thing (dirt) and never once came close to flipping. I never drove it
> in 4wd on dry pavement.
>[color=green]
>> I agree with you completely, one ought NEVER drive a Part Time 4WD system[/color]
> on[color=green]
>> drive pavement with the 4WD engaged. At the very least, the steering will[/color]
> be[color=green]
>> affected, and on newer vehicles that focus on light weight components[/color]
> there[color=green]
>> is a very real probability of mechanical problems in the long run.[/color]
>
> I don't drive my Toyota in 4WD on dry pavement for all the reasons above.
>
>[/color]

You apparently do, that was your original complaint. You say the pavement is
wet, but you should not drive on any pavement in any condition other than
ice or snow. If you are feeling the steering wheel wobble, it's because
you're using 4WD when it isn't needed.

Actually, I didn't have the original "complaint". I only made a comment and
got stuck in the middle.

[color=blue]
> You apparently do, that was your original complaint. You say the pavement[/color]
is[color=blue]
> wet, but you should not drive on any pavement in any condition other than
> ice or snow. If you are feeling the steering wheel wobble, it's because
> you're using 4WD when it isn't needed.
>
>[/color]

Brad Taylor wrote:[color=blue]
> Actually, I didn't have the original "complaint". I only made a comment and
> got stuck in the middle.[/color]

Either some newsreader clients do not show the thread tree. Or, some
posters do not know how to read the tree as I see replies to the wrong
person all of the time. I am replying to your comment but there will be
replies to others on this branch.

--
Jarhead

"Jarhead" <baldintexas@excite.com> wrote in message
news:CKGdnfisQo33J1reRVn-pA@amaonline.com...[color=blue]
> Brad Taylor wrote:[color=green]
>> Actually, I didn't have the original "complaint". I only made a comment
>> and
>> got stuck in the middle.[/color]
>
> Either some newsreader clients do not show the thread tree. Or, some
> posters do not know how to read the tree as I see replies to the wrong
> person all of the time. I am replying to your comment but there will be
> replies to others on this branch.
>
> --
> Jarhead[/color]

Like I've told you before, there's no way you're gonna grow decent lettuce
when temps are 90+ degrees, unless you suspend some shading material over
them.

(Just kidding!)

Doug Kanter wrote:[color=blue]
> "Jarhead" <baldintexas@excite.com> wrote in message
> news:CKGdnfisQo33J1reRVn-pA@amaonline.com...
>[color=green]
>>Brad Taylor wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>>Actually, I didn't have the original "complaint". I only made a comment
>>>and
>>>got stuck in the middle.[/color]
>>
>>Either some newsreader clients do not show the thread tree. Or, some
>>posters do not know how to read the tree as I see replies to the wrong
>>person all of the time. I am replying to your comment but there will be
>>replies to others on this branch.
>>
>>--
>>Jarhead[/color]
>
>
> Like I've told you before, there's no way you're gonna grow decent lettuce
> when temps are 90+ degrees, unless you suspend some shading material over
> them.
>
> (Just kidding!)
>
>[/color]

ROFLMAO LOLOLO!

Jarhead

"Doug Kanter" <ancientangler@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:o2Pxf.660$wk5.8@news02.roc.ny...[color=blue]
>
> "Jarhead" <baldintexas@excite.com> wrote in message
> news:CKGdnfisQo33J1reRVn-pA@amaonline.com...[color=green]
> > Brad Taylor wrote:[color=darkred]
> >> Actually, I didn't have the original "complaint". I only made a[/color][/color][/color]
comment[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
> >> and
> >> got stuck in the middle.[/color]
> >
> > Either some newsreader clients do not show the thread tree. Or, some
> > posters do not know how to read the tree as I see replies to the wrong
> > person all of the time. I am replying to your comment but there will be
> > replies to others on this branch.
> >
> > --
> > Jarhead[/color]
>
> Like I've told you before, there's no way you're gonna grow decent lettuce
> when temps are 90+ degrees, unless you suspend some shading material over
> them.
>
> (Just kidding!)
>[/color]
What kind of shading do you suggest?

"Brad Taylor" <BradTaylor@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:11sg588fk27878b@corp.supernews.com...[color=blue]
>
> "Doug Kanter" <ancientangler@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:o2Pxf.660$wk5.8@news02.roc.ny...[color=green]
>>
>> "Jarhead" <baldintexas@excite.com> wrote in message
>> news:CKGdnfisQo33J1reRVn-pA@amaonline.com...[color=darkred]
>> > Brad Taylor wrote:
>> >> Actually, I didn't have the original "complaint". I only made a[/color][/color]
> comment[color=green][color=darkred]
>> >> and
>> >> got stuck in the middle.
>> >
>> > Either some newsreader clients do not show the thread tree. Or, some
>> > posters do not know how to read the tree as I see replies to the wrong
>> > person all of the time. I am replying to your comment but there will be
>> > replies to others on this branch.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Jarhead[/color]
>>
>> Like I've told you before, there's no way you're gonna grow decent
>> lettuce
>> when temps are 90+ degrees, unless you suspend some shading material over
>> them.
>>
>> (Just kidding!)
>>[/color]
> What kind of shading do you suggest?
>
>[/color]

4 wheel drive shading. No...wait....seriously: Dark window screen, suspended
at least a food over the plants.

Sorry. You got mad at me, and I thought you were the OP.

In any case, Part Time 4WD is not intended for use on pavement. One of the
signs of using it on pavement is that the steering wheel will give feedback
in the form of wobbling in your hands during tight turns, as might be
encountered in low speed driving. High speed driving won't give the feedback
so noticably because the turns are not tight enough to result in large speed
differences in the front and rear tires.





"Brad Taylor" <BradTaylor@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:11seal65pd7nu51@corp.supernews.com...[color=blue]
> Actually, I didn't have the original "complaint". I only made a comment
> and
> got stuck in the middle.
>
>[color=green]
>> You apparently do, that was your original complaint. You say the pavement[/color]
> is[color=green]
>> wet, but you should not drive on any pavement in any condition other than
>> ice or snow. If you are feeling the steering wheel wobble, it's because
>> you're using 4WD when it isn't needed.
>>
>>[/color]
>
>[/color]