Can anyone tell the difference between rotors and pads (truthfully)?

I found out from another thread that brake rotors can't warp and it seems
nobody on this planet can really (reliably) tell the difference between
brake friction materials (because there are no standards whatsoever)
according to
[url]http://www.performanceoiltechnology.com/brakingsystems.htm[/url]

So, since I have horrible brake-induced wobble in my Toyota 4Runner, how
DOES anyone buy the right parts given there are no regulations or
standards to protect us?

We may as well close our eyes and choose randomly for all the lack of
standards. Which leaves me to my most important question, having to trust
in your judgement and experience (which I don't have).

Where would YOU buy a good quality rotors & pads for a Toyota 4Runner?

Stu

"Stuart A. Bronstein" <spamtrap@lexregia.com> wrote in
news:FEwNf.36318$Jd.11501@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net:
[color=blue]
> I found out from another thread that brake rotors can't warp and it
> seems nobody on this planet can really (reliably) tell the difference
> between brake friction materials (because there are no standards
> whatsoever) according to
> [url]http://www.performanceoiltechnology.com/brakingsystems.htm[/url]
>
> So, since I have horrible brake-induced wobble in my Toyota 4Runner,
> how DOES anyone buy the right parts given there are no regulations or
> standards to protect us?
>
> We may as well close our eyes and choose randomly for all the lack of
> standards. Which leaves me to my most important question, having to
> trust in your judgement and experience (which I don't have).
>
> Where would YOU buy a good quality rotors & pads for a Toyota 4Runner?
>[/color]

I'd go to a Toyota service agent. Why would they tell anybody else how
to manufacture replacement spare parts for their products?

Incidentally rotors may not warp much (they do a bit), but they can
certainly wear to some very interesting shapes.

Cheers

Greg Locock

Stuart A. Bronstein wrote:
[color=blue]
> I found out from another thread that brake rotors can't warp[/color]



There are many causes of brake pedal pulsation.
[url]http://www.babcox.com/editorial/bf/bf100326.htm[/url]



[color=blue]
> and it
> seems nobody on this planet can really (reliably) tell the difference
> between brake friction materials (because there are no standards
> whatsoever) according to
> [url]http://www.performanceoiltechnology.com/brakingsystems.htm[/url][/color]



And it matters not a snip.


[color=blue]
>
> So, since I have horrible brake-induced wobble in my Toyota 4Runner,[/color]




There are many causes of brake pedal pulsation.
[url]http://www.babcox.com/editorial/bf/bf100326.htm[/url]



[color=blue]
> how DOES anyone buy the right parts given there are no regulations
> or standards to protect us?[/color]




Gee, it's funny how brakes have become absolutely stellar over the
years compared to those that existed in 1920, and that in the complete
absence of any sort of regulations at all except the requirement of a
dual-circuit system.

Even compare brakes from 1970 to now. Regulations were not needed to
rid us of unassisted drums...


[color=blue]
>
> We may as well close our eyes and choose randomly for all the lack of
> standards. Which leaves me to my most important question, having to
> trust in your judgement and experience (which I don't have).[/color]




Don't worry. Toyota has done that for you. Just buy OEM and you've got
the best there is for your car.



[color=blue]
>
> Where would YOU buy a good quality rotors & pads for a Toyota 4Runner?
>[/color]


The dealer.

"Stuart A. Bronstein" <spamtrap@lexregia.com> wrote in message
news:FEwNf.36318$Jd.11501@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net...[color=blue]
> I found out from another thread that brake rotors can't warp[/color]

That is indeed a revelation.

I would put factory pads and rotors back on this truck

Stuart A. Bronstein wrote:[color=blue]
> I found out from another thread that brake rotors can't warp and it seems
> nobody on this planet can really (reliably) tell the difference between
> brake friction materials (because there are no standards whatsoever)
> according to
> [url]http://www.performanceoiltechnology.com/brakingsystems.htm[/url][/color]

I don't have any problem telling the difference between a rotor and a
pad. To date I have never mistakenly interchanged them on a brake job.
But it sounds like you might have. Quite a mechanical accomplishment,
eh?
[color=blue]
>
> So, since I have horrible brake-induced wobble in my Toyota 4Runner, how
> DOES anyone buy the right parts given there are no regulations or
> standards to protect us?[/color]

If you have horrible brake induced wobble it sounds like you screwed up
a home brake job. Just slide those new high milage cheapo pads in with
no maintenance on the caliper and no attention given to the under-limit
and scored rotor. And just bolt that wheel back up with no attention
given to proper bolt sequence and torque.

Or it sounds like you abused the car by allowing a long overdue brake
job to remain not done.
[color=blue]
>
> We may as well close our eyes and choose randomly for all the lack of
> standards. Which leaves me to my most important question, having to trust
> in your judgement and experience (which I don't have).[/color]

Oh, I get it. Finally figured it out - in addition to not knowing how
to do a brake job you are a shill for a web-based peddler of automotive
miracle cures.
[color=blue]
>
> Where would YOU buy a good quality rotors & pads for a Toyota 4Runner?[/color]

I've had real good luck at: 1. The dealer. 2. At the local auto
parts store that has been in business for over 50 years.

[color=blue]
>
> Stu[/color]

From Toyota, put on AZ $20 rotors and pads on your 4700# truck and see what
happens.
"Stuart A. Bronstein" <spamtrap@lexregia.com> wrote in message
news:FEwNf.36318$Jd.11501@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net...[color=blue]
>I found out from another thread that brake rotors can't warp and it seems
> nobody on this planet can really (reliably) tell the difference between
> brake friction materials (because there are no standards whatsoever)
> according to
> [url]http://www.performanceoiltechnology.com/brakingsystems.htm[/url]
>
> So, since I have horrible brake-induced wobble in my Toyota 4Runner, how
> DOES anyone buy the right parts given there are no regulations or
> standards to protect us?
>
> We may as well close our eyes and choose randomly for all the lack of
> standards. Which leaves me to my most important question, having to trust
> in your judgement and experience (which I don't have).
>
> Where would YOU buy a good quality rotors & pads for a Toyota 4Runner?
>
> Stu
>[/color]



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Stuart A. Bronstein wrote:[color=blue]
> I found out from another thread that brake rotors can't warp and it seems
> nobody on this planet can really (reliably) tell the difference between
> brake friction materials (because there are no standards whatsoever)
> according to
> [url]http://www.performanceoiltechnology.com/brakingsystems.htm[/url]
>
> So, since I have horrible brake-induced wobble in my Toyota 4Runner, how
> DOES anyone buy the right parts given there are no regulations or
> standards to protect us?
>
> We may as well close our eyes and choose randomly for all the lack of
> standards. Which leaves me to my most important question, having to trust
> in your judgement and experience (which I don't have).
>
> Where would YOU buy a good quality rotors & pads for a Toyota 4Runner?
>
> Stu[/color]

Ask your mechanic. You do have a mechanic and are not using
Quick-E-Brakes right?

--
Thank you,



"Then said I, Wisdom [is] better than strength: nevertheless the poor
man's wisdom [is] despised, and his words are not heard." Ecclesiastes 9:16

I would put factory pads and rotors on this truck

"Hugo Schmeisser" <invalid@invalid.c0m> wrote in news:v--
[email]dndBXpOSYOJvZRVn-pg@magma.ca[/email]:[color=blue][color=green]
>> I found out from another thread that brake rotors can't warp[/color]
> There are many causes of brake pedal pulsation.
> [url]http://www.babcox.com/editorial/bf/bf100326.htm[/url][/color]


Wow!
That was the most excellent brake-pedal pulsation article I have ever
seen.

I had googled - but I hadn't seen this article. I read it over and over
and over. Thank you thank you thank you. I learned quite a few new
things today from that Babcox braking article.

One is that I have been measuring runout all wrong! For example, I
didn't clean BEHIND the rotors before measuring the runout. And, I
didn't have the dial guage stem at an oblique angle to the rotor and
pointing in the direction of rotartion (I had put it perpendicular)! The
Babcox article suggests that the repeatable "blip" I experienced might
be simply due to vibration induced by that erroneous perpendicular
placement. The article also explained that thickness variation is
generally the ultimate precursor of the severe high-speed brake pedal
pulsation I'm experiencing. By thinking warped rotors, I was heading off
in the wrong direction.

Likewise with the friction material and rotor recommendations. Given
there are no known friction material standards, and believing the
performance oil article at
[url]http://www.performanceoiltechnology.com/brakingsystems.htm[/url], I can come
to the conclusion that one can't believe the parts guy who says "these
are ceramic", "these are semi metallic", etc. as it's all just
advertising!

For example, the manufacturers can call the SAME friction material
either:
* Non Asbestos Organic Friction Material (NAO)
* Semi-Metallic friction material
* Low-Metallic friction material
* Cerami-Metallic friction material
* Corrector Lining
* Euro-Met
and more.

Since all those names are for the same set of brake pads, it's pretty
clear the advertisers have had a field day with we poor mechanics.

So, what am I going to do?

1. Test runout again with the dial guage pointed at an angle and this
time I will first remove the rotors, clean BEHIND the rotors, index the
rotors by high spot and low spot and hub runout and torque down three of
the six lug nuts, rotating three times to get the lowest runout.

2. If runout is outside of 4Runner specifications (0.028 inches), I'll
purchase new rotors and pads and hardware (even though the pads are fine
even after more than 50,000 miles).

I'll ONLY buy OEM pads and rotors (anything else seems like a gamble
since there are no standards for the performance of those materials nor
can we even believe simple material designations such as "ceramic" vs
"metallic"). That really leaves nothing but OEM as the right choice.

In general, I go Internet (remembering the punitive almost 9% uncle
sam). For my 1988 Nissan Maxima, there is a great dealership in another
state that all Nissan owners use who charges at least 20% to 40% less
than any dealership (including shipping). There's no other way to go for
a Nissan as he's truly the do it yourselfer's friend so much more than
the local dealership ever will be.

Do Toyota home mechanics have a similar the-only-right-choice Internet-
aware mechanic's friend dealership like Nissan has?

"Stuart A. Bronstein" <spamtrap@lexregia.com> wrote[color=blue]
>I found out from another thread that brake rotors can't warp and it seems
> nobody on this planet can really (reliably) tell the difference between
> brake friction materials (because there are no standards whatsoever)
> according to
> [url]http://www.performanceoiltechnology.com/brakingsystems.htm[/url]
>
> So, since I have horrible brake-induced wobble in my Toyota 4Runner, how
> DOES anyone buy the right parts given there are no regulations or
> standards to protect us?
>
> We may as well close our eyes and choose randomly for all the lack of
> standards. Which leaves me to my most important question, having to trust
> in your judgement and experience (which I don't have).
>
> Where would YOU buy a good quality rotors & pads for a Toyota 4Runner?[/color]

NOT from the site you've spammed us with.

On 2 Mar 2006 04:44:35 -0800, [email]jfrancis311@gmail.com[/email] wrote:
[color=blue]
>I would put factory pads and rotors back on this truck[/color]

I would not because the hard pads cause the problems most of the
times. They are all putting very hard pads on them to get max pad life
at the expense of rotor. If you drive mildy and are not hard on your
brakes you can get by but if you uses your brakes hard and a lot, you
may likely have problems. Something has to give in front brake area
and if the pads are hard then the rotor has to wear and due to metal
grain it may wear uneven and then develope hot spots which lead to
warpage and brake pusations and shakes. Myself I NEVER use stock pads,
I always use softer aftermarket ones and change them a bit more often
and I have run several rotors past 200K miles with no problems using
them and I "work" my brakes some from time to time. Simple choice
here, change to a softer pad and change them a bit more often or use
hard OEM ones and resign yourself to replacing rotors with every brake
job (more than likely)

Stuart A. Bronstein wrote:[color=blue]
> I found out from another thread that brake rotors can't warp and it seems
> nobody on this planet can really (reliably) tell the difference between
> brake friction materials (because there are no standards whatsoever)
> according to
> [url]http://www.performanceoiltechnology.com/brakingsystems.htm[/url]
>
> So, since I have horrible brake-induced wobble in my Toyota 4Runner, how
> DOES anyone buy the right parts given there are no regulations or
> standards to protect us?
>
> We may as well close our eyes and choose randomly for all the lack of
> standards. Which leaves me to my most important question, having to trust
> in your judgement and experience (which I don't have).
>
> Where would YOU buy a good quality rotors & pads for a Toyota 4Runner?
>
> Stu[/color]

Drive slow and coast up to stop signs and stop lights and you don't
much need brakes.

"Stuart A. Bronstein" <spamtrap@lexregia.com> wrote in message
news:FEwNf.36318$Jd.11501@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net...[color=blue]
> I found out from another thread that brake rotors can't warp and it[/color]
seems[color=blue]
> nobody on this planet can really (reliably) tell the difference[/color]
between[color=blue]
> brake friction materials (because there are no standards whatsoever)
> according to
> [url]http://www.performanceoiltechnology.com/brakingsystems.htm[/url]
>
> So, since I have horrible brake-induced wobble in my Toyota 4Runner,[/color]
how[color=blue]
> DOES anyone buy the right parts given there are no regulations or
> standards to protect us?
>
> We may as well close our eyes and choose randomly for all the lack of
> standards. Which leaves me to my most important question, having to[/color]
trust[color=blue]
> in your judgement and experience (which I don't have).
>
> Where would YOU buy a good quality rotors & pads for a Toyota 4Runner?
>
> Stu
>[/color]

Wow that is a great web site with a load of CRAP.

Brake rotors warp all the time, so do drums. Want to see it happen,
drive down a long hill using the brakes to control your speed, hit a
puddle at the bottom and guess what happens? Warpage is real easy to
define. Relative motion in a sample plane. Uneven heating, or mechanical
stress can cause it easily.

There are standards for what the brakes do and how they are made. The
problem is that those standards are REALLY old. Basically anything can
be used that provides the ability to stop the vehicle in a prescribed
distance. Modern brakes are designed to reduce the problems associated
with the way the brake performance degrades due to the environment and
design.

Personally I run Performance Friction carbon metallic pads. I use rotors
from NAPA. No problems with their performance other than the fact that
they work VERY well so it does take a bit of time to get used to the
better brakes.



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"Stuart A. Bronstein" <spamtrap@lexregia.com> wrote in message
news:FEwNf.36318$Jd.11501@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net...[color=blue]
>I found out from another thread that brake rotors can't warp[/color]

Someone has lied to you.
Brake rotors can warp.
Resurface them if there is enough thickness left.
also,
Even new rotors could have a warp in them (mishandeling etc.)
If you can not resurface your old ones, get new ones
and resurface them before installation and all
brake related vibrations (when hitting the brake) will
be gone.
:)