Rear drum brake upgrade for 93 4x4 p/u

My rear brakes just are not working like they should. They help a little,
but I can't get them to lock up even on dirt. I replaced all the rubber
lines and rebuilt the master cylinder. The rear pads are adjusted
correctly and I have the proportional valve adjusted to max. Even with
the parking brake pulled out and on dirt, I can't get the rear to really
do anything. The fronts are doing most of the stopping.

I think part of the problem is the Hawk pads I have on the front braking
better then the stock pads in the rear.

Does anyone know of some super soft pads or drum upgrade I can do to the
rear to get them into the act more?

I know the fronts do 90% of the breaking and the brakes are designed not
lock up the rears, but I should be seeing more then this.

Thanks for any suggestions.

Confusing post -- If you have drums on the rear then you have shoes NOT pads
there. Did you bleed the brakes - starting with the rear brakes and get all
the crud and air out? Have you adjusted the shoes to where the drums just
stop and then back them off a bit? Have you then adjusted the parking brake
so it holds after about 3-5 clicks? If so then pulling the emergency
(parking brake) should stop you (but may not lock the rears). With parking
brake off and rear wheel in air on jack stand - have some one presss on
breake - can you turn the drum?

"Eddie" <no@spamatall.com> wrote in message
news:120nrr6cq08mq0b@corp.supernews.com...[color=blue]
> My rear brakes just are not working like they should. They help a little,
> but I can't get them to lock up even on dirt. I replaced all the rubber
> lines and rebuilt the master cylinder. The rear pads are adjusted
> correctly and I have the proportional valve adjusted to max. Even with
> the parking brake pulled out and on dirt, I can't get the rear to really
> do anything. The fronts are doing most of the stopping.
>
> I think part of the problem is the Hawk pads I have on the front braking
> better then the stock pads in the rear.
>
> Does anyone know of some super soft pads or drum upgrade I can do to the
> rear to get them into the act more?
>
> I know the fronts do 90% of the breaking and the brakes are designed not
> lock up the rears, but I should be seeing more then this.
>
> Thanks for any suggestions.[/color]

Sorry about the confusing post. I ment to say shoes and not pads.

I fully blead the brakes. It all has new fluid and I am sure no air is in
the lines. I blead them twice after a short drive to be really sure.

I removed the rear drums and shoes and lubed up the self-adjuster. I then
reinstalled the drums and shoes and pulled on the parking brake cable
until the self-adjusters did what they do. My parking brake cable is a
mess and needs to be replaced, so it does not hold the truck after 3-5
clicks. You have to pull it really hard for anything to happen. But I
think that is just dirt in the cable. The rear drums self-adjusted like
they should.

With the truck on the jacks, pressing the brake (or pulling the parking
brake cable) will stop the drum from spinning by hand.

Everything looks to be working fine, I just don't feel any stopping power
from the rears. I hull around 1000 pounds of tools and shell on the
back of this thing. I would like the rear brakes do to more.

I was just thinking, my truck has a anti-skidding thing on it. I don't
know if it still works or not. Could that be causing my problem? Or maybe
it's working correctly and stopping the rears from locking up on dirt.
Maybe I will try to disable it and see what that does.

Thanks
-Eddie




On Mon, 06 Mar 2006 17:08:20 -0800, Wolfgang wrote:
[color=blue]
> Confusing post -- If you have drums on the rear then you have shoes NOT
> pads there. Did you bleed the brakes - starting with the rear brakes
> and get all the crud and air out? Have you adjusted the shoes to where
> the drums just stop and then back them off a bit? Have you then
> adjusted the parking brake so it holds after about 3-5 clicks? If so
> then pulling the emergency (parking brake) should stop you (but may not
> lock the rears). With parking brake off and rear wheel in air on jack
> stand - have some one presss on breake - can you turn the drum?
>
> "Eddie" <no@spamatall.com> wrote in message
> news:120nrr6cq08mq0b@corp.supernews.com...[color=green]
>> My rear brakes just are not working like they should. They help a
>> little, but I can't get them to lock up even on dirt. I replaced all
>> the rubber lines and rebuilt the master cylinder. The rear pads are
>> adjusted correctly and I have the proportional valve adjusted to max.
>> Even with the parking brake pulled out and on dirt, I can't get the
>> rear to really do anything. The fronts are doing most of the stopping.
>>
>> I think part of the problem is the Hawk pads I have on the front
>> braking better then the stock pads in the rear.
>>
>> Does anyone know of some super soft pads or drum upgrade I can do to
>> the rear to get them into the act more?
>>
>> I know the fronts do 90% of the breaking and the brakes are designed
>> not lock up the rears, but I should be seeing more then this.
>>
>> Thanks for any suggestions.[/color][/color]

Don't rely on just the self adjusters -- you can use the star adjuster thru
the backing plate to get the shoes a little tighter - just make sure you can
still turn the wheel. Are shoes new if so they take time to conform to
drums. If not new - how old are they - perhaps grazed or worn down too far.

"Eddie" <no@spamatall.com> wrote in message
news:120qgp83fu5vc9c@corp.supernews.com...[color=blue]
> Sorry about the confusing post. I ment to say shoes and not pads.
>
> I fully blead the brakes. It all has new fluid and I am sure no air is in
> the lines. I blead them twice after a short drive to be really sure.
>
> I removed the rear drums and shoes and lubed up the self-adjuster. I then
> reinstalled the drums and shoes and pulled on the parking brake cable
> until the self-adjusters did what they do. My parking brake cable is a
> mess and needs to be replaced, so it does not hold the truck after 3-5
> clicks. You have to pull it really hard for anything to happen. But I
> think that is just dirt in the cable. The rear drums self-adjusted like
> they should.
>
> With the truck on the jacks, pressing the brake (or pulling the parking
> brake cable) will stop the drum from spinning by hand.
>
> Everything looks to be working fine, I just don't feel any stopping power
> from the rears. I hull around 1000 pounds of tools and shell on the
> back of this thing. I would like the rear brakes do to more.
>
> I was just thinking, my truck has a anti-skidding thing on it. I don't
> know if it still works or not. Could that be causing my problem? Or maybe
> it's working correctly and stopping the rears from locking up on dirt.
> Maybe I will try to disable it and see what that does.
>
> Thanks
> -Eddie
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, 06 Mar 2006 17:08:20 -0800, Wolfgang wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Confusing post -- If you have drums on the rear then you have shoes NOT
>> pads there. Did you bleed the brakes - starting with the rear brakes
>> and get all the crud and air out? Have you adjusted the shoes to where
>> the drums just stop and then back them off a bit? Have you then
>> adjusted the parking brake so it holds after about 3-5 clicks? If so
>> then pulling the emergency (parking brake) should stop you (but may not
>> lock the rears). With parking brake off and rear wheel in air on jack
>> stand - have some one presss on breake - can you turn the drum?
>>
>> "Eddie" <no@spamatall.com> wrote in message
>> news:120nrr6cq08mq0b@corp.supernews.com...[color=darkred]
>>> My rear brakes just are not working like they should. They help a
>>> little, but I can't get them to lock up even on dirt. I replaced all
>>> the rubber lines and rebuilt the master cylinder. The rear pads are
>>> adjusted correctly and I have the proportional valve adjusted to max.
>>> Even with the parking brake pulled out and on dirt, I can't get the
>>> rear to really do anything. The fronts are doing most of the stopping.
>>>
>>> I think part of the problem is the Hawk pads I have on the front
>>> braking better then the stock pads in the rear.
>>>
>>> Does anyone know of some super soft pads or drum upgrade I can do to
>>> the rear to get them into the act more?
>>>
>>> I know the fronts do 90% of the breaking and the brakes are designed
>>> not lock up the rears, but I should be seeing more then this.
>>>
>>> Thanks for any suggestions.[/color][/color][/color]

I'm sorry, but I'm not familiar with an 'anti-skidding' thing on the
back of a Toyota pick-up. Are you talking ABS? Or are you refering to
the load-proportioning valve? The LPV has always been troublesome. This
valve is in the brake line at the rear, mounted to the frame, and has a
rod that connects to the rear axle. The rod adjusts the valve depending
on the load. But, they do malfunction, get out of adjustment, and
generally gum up. The solution is to re-do the lines to bypass it, and
rely on the proportioning valve under the hood to control the rear brake
power.

Good Luck.

Eddie <no@spamatall.com> wrote in
news:120qgp83fu5vc9c@corp.supernews.com:
[color=blue]
> Sorry about the confusing post. I ment to say shoes and not pads.
>
> I fully blead the brakes. It all has new fluid and I am sure no air is
> in the lines. I blead them twice after a short drive to be really
> sure.
>
> I removed the rear drums and shoes and lubed up the self-adjuster. I
> then reinstalled the drums and shoes and pulled on the parking brake
> cable until the self-adjusters did what they do. My parking brake
> cable is a mess and needs to be replaced, so it does not hold the
> truck after 3-5 clicks. You have to pull it really hard for anything
> to happen. But I think that is just dirt in the cable. The rear drums
> self-adjusted like they should.
>
> With the truck on the jacks, pressing the brake (or pulling the
> parking brake cable) will stop the drum from spinning by hand.
>
> Everything looks to be working fine, I just don't feel any stopping
> power from the rears. I hull around 1000 pounds of tools and shell on
> the back of this thing. I would like the rear brakes do to more.
>
> I was just thinking, my truck has a anti-skidding thing on it. I don't
> know if it still works or not. Could that be causing my problem? Or
> maybe it's working correctly and stopping the rears from locking up on
> dirt. Maybe I will try to disable it and see what that does.
>
> Thanks
> -Eddie
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, 06 Mar 2006 17:08:20 -0800, Wolfgang wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Confusing post -- If you have drums on the rear then you have shoes
>> NOT pads there. Did you bleed the brakes - starting with the rear
>> brakes and get all the crud and air out? Have you adjusted the shoes
>> to where the drums just stop and then back them off a bit? Have you
>> then adjusted the parking brake so it holds after about 3-5 clicks?
>> If so then pulling the emergency (parking brake) should stop you (but
>> may not lock the rears). With parking brake off and rear wheel in air
>> on jack stand - have some one presss on breake - can you turn the
>> drum?
>>
>> "Eddie" <no@spamatall.com> wrote in message
>> news:120nrr6cq08mq0b@corp.supernews.com...[color=darkred]
>>> My rear brakes just are not working like they should. They help a
>>> little, but I can't get them to lock up even on dirt. I replaced all
>>> the rubber lines and rebuilt the master cylinder. The rear pads are
>>> adjusted correctly and I have the proportional valve adjusted to
>>> max. Even with the parking brake pulled out and on dirt, I can't get
>>> the rear to really do anything. The fronts are doing most of the
>>> stopping.
>>>
>>> I think part of the problem is the Hawk pads I have on the front
>>> braking better then the stock pads in the rear.
>>>
>>> Does anyone know of some super soft pads or drum upgrade I can do to
>>> the rear to get them into the act more?
>>>
>>> I know the fronts do 90% of the breaking and the brakes are designed
>>> not lock up the rears, but I should be seeing more then this.
>>>
>>> Thanks for any suggestions.[/color][/color][/color]

The pads are adjusted right. The shoes are not new, but hand lots of
padding left. I would not mind replacing them with something with a
softer compound. A muffen perhaps.


On Tue, 07 Mar 2006 17:49:49 -0800, Wolfgang wrote:
[color=blue]
> Don't rely on just the self adjusters -- you can use the star adjuster
> thru the backing plate to get the shoes a little tighter - just make
> sure you can still turn the wheel. Are shoes new if so they take time
> to conform to drums. If not new - how old are they - perhaps grazed or
> worn down too far.
>
> "Eddie" <no@spamatall.com> wrote in message
> news:120qgp83fu5vc9c@corp.supernews.com...[color=green]
>> Sorry about the confusing post. I ment to say shoes and not pads.
>>
>> I fully blead the brakes. It all has new fluid and I am sure no air is
>> in the lines. I blead them twice after a short drive to be really sure.
>>
>> I removed the rear drums and shoes and lubed up the self-adjuster. I
>> then reinstalled the drums and shoes and pulled on the parking brake
>> cable until the self-adjusters did what they do. My parking brake cable
>> is a mess and needs to be replaced, so it does not hold the truck after
>> 3-5 clicks. You have to pull it really hard for anything to happen. But
>> I think that is just dirt in the cable. The rear drums self-adjusted
>> like they should.
>>
>> With the truck on the jacks, pressing the brake (or pulling the parking
>> brake cable) will stop the drum from spinning by hand.
>>
>> Everything looks to be working fine, I just don't feel any stopping
>> power from the rears. I hull around 1000 pounds of tools and shell on
>> the back of this thing. I would like the rear brakes do to more.
>>
>> I was just thinking, my truck has a anti-skidding thing on it. I don't
>> know if it still works or not. Could that be causing my problem? Or
>> maybe it's working correctly and stopping the rears from locking up on
>> dirt. Maybe I will try to disable it and see what that does.
>>
>> Thanks
>> -Eddie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 06 Mar 2006 17:08:20 -0800, Wolfgang wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>> Confusing post -- If you have drums on the rear then you have shoes
>>> NOT pads there. Did you bleed the brakes - starting with the rear
>>> brakes and get all the crud and air out? Have you adjusted the shoes
>>> to where the drums just stop and then back them off a bit? Have you
>>> then adjusted the parking brake so it holds after about 3-5 clicks? If
>>> so then pulling the emergency (parking brake) should stop you (but may
>>> not lock the rears). With parking brake off and rear wheel in air on
>>> jack stand - have some one presss on breake - can you turn the drum?
>>>
>>> "Eddie" <no@spamatall.com> wrote in message
>>> news:120nrr6cq08mq0b@corp.supernews.com...
>>>> My rear brakes just are not working like they should. They help a
>>>> little, but I can't get them to lock up even on dirt. I replaced all
>>>> the rubber lines and rebuilt the master cylinder. The rear pads are
>>>> adjusted correctly and I have the proportional valve adjusted to max.
>>>> Even with the parking brake pulled out and on dirt, I can't get the
>>>> rear to really do anything. The fronts are doing most of the
>>>> stopping.
>>>>
>>>> I think part of the problem is the Hawk pads I have on the front
>>>> braking better then the stock pads in the rear.
>>>>
>>>> Does anyone know of some super soft pads or drum upgrade I can do to
>>>> the rear to get them into the act more?
>>>>
>>>> I know the fronts do 90% of the breaking and the brakes are designed
>>>> not lock up the rears, but I should be seeing more then this.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for any suggestions.[/color][/color][/color]

No, not ABS. Something like ABS, but not really. It somehow involves a
g-force box, a computer behind the glove box, and some heavy chunk of
metal bolted to the frame that has an excess of power steering and brake
lines going in and out of it. According to the service manual, it's to
stop the rear bumper from passing the driver under heavy braking.

The LPV could be the issue. I adjusted it for max braking effort, but it
didn't seem to do anything.

I think it's the extra soft Hawk front pads and the stock Toyota
extra-metal-long-lasting shoes on the rear that is causing my problem.

Thanks
-Eddie




On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 03:26:53 -0800, ccoles wrote:
[color=blue]
> I'm sorry, but I'm not familiar with an 'anti-skidding' thing on the
> back of a Toyota pick-up. Are you talking ABS? Or are you refering to
> the load-proportioning valve? The LPV has always been troublesome. This
> valve is in the brake line at the rear, mounted to the frame, and has a
> rod that connects to the rear axle. The rod adjusts the valve depending
> on the load. But, they do malfunction, get out of adjustment, and
> generally gum up. The solution is to re-do the lines to bypass it, and
> rely on the proportioning valve under the hood to control the rear brake
> power.
>
> Good Luck.
>
> Eddie <no@spamatall.com> wrote in
> news:120qgp83fu5vc9c@corp.supernews.com:
>[color=green]
>> Sorry about the confusing post. I ment to say shoes and not pads.
>>
>> I fully blead the brakes. It all has new fluid and I am sure no air is
>> in the lines. I blead them twice after a short drive to be really sure.
>>
>> I removed the rear drums and shoes and lubed up the self-adjuster. I
>> then reinstalled the drums and shoes and pulled on the parking brake
>> cable until the self-adjusters did what they do. My parking brake cable
>> is a mess and needs to be replaced, so it does not hold the truck after
>> 3-5 clicks. You have to pull it really hard for anything to happen. But
>> I think that is just dirt in the cable. The rear drums self-adjusted
>> like they should.
>>
>> With the truck on the jacks, pressing the brake (or pulling the parking
>> brake cable) will stop the drum from spinning by hand.
>>
>> Everything looks to be working fine, I just don't feel any stopping
>> power from the rears. I hull around 1000 pounds of tools and shell on
>> the back of this thing. I would like the rear brakes do to more.
>>
>> I was just thinking, my truck has a anti-skidding thing on it. I don't
>> know if it still works or not. Could that be causing my problem? Or
>> maybe it's working correctly and stopping the rears from locking up on
>> dirt. Maybe I will try to disable it and see what that does.
>>
>> Thanks
>> -Eddie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 06 Mar 2006 17:08:20 -0800, Wolfgang wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>> Confusing post -- If you have drums on the rear then you have shoes
>>> NOT pads there. Did you bleed the brakes - starting with the rear
>>> brakes and get all the crud and air out? Have you adjusted the shoes
>>> to where the drums just stop and then back them off a bit? Have you
>>> then adjusted the parking brake so it holds after about 3-5 clicks? If
>>> so then pulling the emergency (parking brake) should stop you (but may
>>> not lock the rears). With parking brake off and rear wheel in air on
>>> jack stand - have some one presss on breake - can you turn the drum?
>>>
>>> "Eddie" <no@spamatall.com> wrote in message
>>> news:120nrr6cq08mq0b@corp.supernews.com...
>>>> My rear brakes just are not working like they should. They help a
>>>> little, but I can't get them to lock up even on dirt. I replaced all
>>>> the rubber lines and rebuilt the master cylinder. The rear pads are
>>>> adjusted correctly and I have the proportional valve adjusted to max.
>>>> Even with the parking brake pulled out and on dirt, I can't get the
>>>> rear to really do anything. The fronts are doing most of the
>>>> stopping.
>>>>
>>>> I think part of the problem is the Hawk pads I have on the front
>>>> braking better then the stock pads in the rear.
>>>>
>>>> Does anyone know of some super soft pads or drum upgrade I can do to
>>>> the rear to get them into the act more?
>>>>
>>>> I know the fronts do 90% of the breaking and the brakes are designed
>>>> not lock up the rears, but I should be seeing more then this.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for any suggestions.[/color][/color][/color]

ccoles has the right idea in above post, bypass it (at your own risk).
Study the lines, (which one does what) and its not too much trouble to
do without buying anything. I removed it on my 1981 4x4 pickup because
the rear brakes did basically nothing, even after playing with the load
sensing valve. It can lock 'em up now if needed, but I'm a slow driver..

ccoles has the right idea in above post, bypass it (at your own risk).
Study the lines, (which one does what) and its not too much trouble to
do without buying anything. I removed it on my 1981 4x4 pickup because
the rear brakes did basically nothing, even after playing with the load
sensing valve. It can lock 'em up now if needed, but I'm a slow driver..