Engine Overheating Followup

I seemed to have had my wrist slapped for cross-posting this and even
doing it incorrectly. Anyway, thanks for the help with part 1 diagnosis
of my 88 toyota pickup and would appreciate help with this next part

So it seems there is a leak or at least no antifreeze to see in the rad

and little to none in the overflow. The oil is not milky and the
antifreeze overflow ( what little there is) does not seem contaminated
either. Water pump seems fine (no noise, no visible leak, no movement
of pulley), now the question of finding the leak and I have still not
ruled out head gasket --can you lose that much antifreeze via exhaust??

I have noticed some white exhaust but it is cold presently and I see
many cars with similar white exhaust.

For the moment, I am going to top up the existing fluid with a economy
antifreeze 50/50 mix with distilled water with the intent of flushing
the system once I figure out where the leak is. Of course, there is no
pool of fluid under the vehicle which is good and bad.


The responses have been very helpful and if anyway would like to offer
suggestions for the next step, it would be greatly appreciated.

"gp" <gpagmail-news@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1143000480.406104.308890@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
>I seemed to have had my wrist slapped for cross-posting this and even
> doing it incorrectly. Anyway, thanks for the help with part 1 diagnosis
> of my 88 toyota pickup and would appreciate help with this next part
>
> So it seems there is a leak or at least no antifreeze to see in the rad
>
> and little to none in the overflow. The oil is not milky and the
> antifreeze overflow ( what little there is) does not seem contaminated
> either. Water pump seems fine (no noise, no visible leak, no movement
> of pulley), now the question of finding the leak and I have still not
> ruled out head gasket --can you lose that much antifreeze via exhaust??[/color]

Yes, it is possible to lose that much coolant via the exhaust.
[color=blue]
>
> I have noticed some white exhaust but it is cold presently and I see
> many cars with similar white exhaust.[/color]

If the coolant was coming out the exhast you should it would look more
like smoke.
[color=blue]
>
> For the moment, I am going to top up the existing fluid with a economy
> antifreeze 50/50 mix with distilled water with the intent of flushing
> the system once I figure out where the leak is. Of course, there is no
> pool of fluid under the vehicle which is good and bad.[/color]

Top up the radiator and resevoir and then check for leaks. The easiest way
to do this would be with a cooling system pressure tester. They are
available at most auto parts stores or any decent garage would have one.
Places to check for leaks: water pump gasket and weep hole, all hose
connections, heater core, the radiator seams, fins and petcock. Also check
the engine block for leaking freeze plugs. Once you fill the system back up
the may be obvious.
[color=blue]
>
>
> The responses have been very helpful and if anyway would like to offer
> suggestions for the next step, it would be greatly appreciated.
>[/color]

Thank you very much, a little precision, I was reading a service manual
last night and it suggested to check under/inside the oil filler cap
and see if there was a milky/coffe/cream like build up and there was a
bit. It then suggested to change the oil (I will check again if there
is any milky stuff as there was none on the dipstick), run it for
50-100 continuous miles and check it again. I checked the antifreeze
again by drawing some out by the rad drain plug and all seems in order.

Now I am in a bit of denial here, so am hoping that the vehicle being
so old (88), there could have been some buildup over the past 20 years
as nobody actually looks inside the cap or cleans it.

Anyway, the book suggested the I get a Leak down? test done (if still
get milky after the oil change and drive) and a pressure test (for
leaks). As for the coolant coming out exhaust, if you suggest it should
look like smoke. Would it be fair to say, that it would be noticible by
others and/or somthing that is very evident?

"gp" <gpagmail-news@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1143040441.148637.308050@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
> Thank you very much, a little precision, I was reading a service manual
> last night and it suggested to check under/inside the oil filler cap
> and see if there was a milky/coffe/cream like build up and there was a
> bit. It then suggested to change the oil (I will check again if there
> is any milky stuff as there was none on the dipstick), run it for
> 50-100 continuous miles and check it again. I checked the antifreeze
> again by drawing some out by the rad drain plug and all seems in order.
>
> Now I am in a bit of denial here, so am hoping that the vehicle being
> so old (88), there could have been some buildup over the past 20 years
> as nobody actually looks inside the cap or cleans it.
>
> Anyway, the book suggested the I get a Leak down? test done (if still
> get milky after the oil change and drive) and a pressure test (for
> leaks). As for the coolant coming out exhaust, if you suggest it should
> look like smoke. Would it be fair to say, that it would be noticible by
> others and/or somthing that is very evident?
>[/color]

It would be very helpful if you quoted some previous posts so that people
responding would know and remember what has been suggested already as well
as other pertinent info like year, model, mileage, symptoms, etc.

I would not pressure test an 18 year old cooling system because Murphy's law
will kick in and cause additional cooling system leaks. I've seen this
happen numerous times.

Coolant coming out of the exhaust tends to be white steam and will have a
sweet smell like coolant. It is normal to see white clouds coming out of
the exhaust when you first start the engine until it is thoroughly warmed up
and the condensation in the exhaust has burned off. Depending on the
ambient temperature, the amount of white clouds you see should diminish but
if you still see billowing clouds out the exhaust, then that could mean that
coolant is getting into the combustion chambers somehow.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

In article <1143040441.148637.308050@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
gp <gpagmail-news@yahoo.com> wrote:[color=blue]
>Thank you very much, a little precision, I was reading a service manual
>last night and it suggested to check under/inside the oil filler cap
>and see if there was a milky/coffe/cream like build up and there was a
>bit. It then suggested to change the oil (I will check again if there
>is any milky stuff as there was none on the dipstick), run it for
>50-100 continuous miles and check it again. I checked the antifreeze
>again by drawing some out by the rad drain plug and all seems in order.[/color]

MY PSYCHIC POWERS PREDICT A BAD RADIATOR CAP.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

"gp" <gpagmail-news@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1143040441.148637.308050@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
> Thank you very much, a little precision, I was reading a service manual
> last night and it suggested to check under/inside the oil filler cap
> and see if there was a milky/coffe/cream like build up and there was a
> bit. It then suggested to change the oil (I will check again if there
> is any milky stuff as there was none on the dipstick), run it for
> 50-100 continuous miles and check it again. I checked the antifreeze
> again by drawing some out by the rad drain plug and all seems in order.
>
> Now I am in a bit of denial here, so am hoping that the vehicle being
> so old (88), there could have been some buildup over the past 20 years
> as nobody actually looks inside the cap or cleans it.[/color]

It is normal for that engine to have a slight builup on the underside of
the oil filler cap when operated in cold weather. As long as it is only a
thin film you should be ok. All the 4 cyl toyotas I have seen will do that
in cold weather.
[color=blue]
>
> Anyway, the book suggested the I get a Leak down? test done (if still
> get milky after the oil change and drive) and a pressure test (for
> leaks). As for the coolant coming out exhaust, if you suggest it should
> look like smoke. Would it be fair to say, that it would be noticible by
> others and/or somthing that is very evident?[/color]

I would just fill the cooling sytem back up making sure you bleed out all
the air and the have it pressure tested for leaks. If all is ok drive it and
see if your problem returns, it may just be a sticking thermostat. If the
thermostat hasn't been changed in a long time I would do that also. I would
also replace the radiator cap as others have also stated. If after all the
above and you find no leaks then have a leak down test done.

If you have coolant in the exhaust you should be able to smell it. It has
a very distinct sweet smell.

gp wrote:
[color=blue]
> I seemed to have had my wrist slapped for cross-posting this and even
> doing it incorrectly.[/color]



You originally didn't "cross-post", you posted individual messages to
many separate groups. That's not the same thing at all.

I see you've cross-posted correctly with this message. You've posted to
only three groups, and all of them are reasonably related to your
problem.

Congratulations for learning your lesson. :)

I bought the vehicle about 2 years ago and do like it a lot -the rad
and a lot of the houses seem to be in very good condition. It is a 1988
toyota p/u 2wd, 2.4L, 4cyl, 22re engine with 190,000 km on it (marketed
as a one ton). It had one previous owner. I am grasping at any positve
news that it is not a head gasket. I have not smelt any sweet smell
from the exhaust or excessive --have been smelling rubber, but think
that is b/c new exhaust was placed a bit close to undermount spare tire
--hope it is not a rubber smell --no billowing clouds out the exhaust.
Tonight I will top it up with fresh antifreeze/good water mix, run it
with cap off, replace with new cap, and monitor the overflow container.
I will hold off on a pressure test for the moment and see how it goes.
Not sure when the thermostat was last changed, but that would not
explain coolant lose, would it?? Anyway, I do not mind taking it to a
shop in the near future, but I like to have some info if and when it
comes to that. Also, all this info has been useful so next time, I can
catch this earlier as there were signs that this was happening, like
longer for heater to heat inside, heat guage going up higher than
normal and then falling rapidly to a better baseline but this was in
that past 2 weeks, when the heat guage finally went up to red and
luckily I stopped and hope there was no damage done.

I will also copy and post from last series of dignosis.

I bought the vehicle about 2 years ago and do like it a lot -the rad
and a lot of the houses seem to be in very good condition. It is a 1988
toyota p/u 2wd, 2.4L, 4cyl, 22re engine with 190,000 km on it (marketed
as a one ton). It had one previous owner. I am grasping at any positve
news that it is not a head gasket. I have not smelt any sweet smell
from the exhaust or excessive --have been smelling rubber, but think
that is b/c new exhaust was placed a bit close to undermount spare tire
--hope it is not a rubber smell --no billowing clouds out the exhaust.
Tonight I will top it up with fresh antifreeze/good water mix, run it
with cap off, replace with new cap, and monitor the overflow container.
I will hold off on a pressure test for the moment and see how it goes.
Not sure when the thermostat was last changed, but that would not
explain coolant lose, would it?? Anyway, I do not mind taking it to a
shop in the near future, but I like to have some info if and when it
comes to that. Also, all this info has been useful so next time, I can
catch this earlier as there were signs that this was happening, like
longer for heater to heat inside, heat guage going up higher than
normal and then falling rapidly to a better baseline but this was in
that past 2 weeks, when the heat guage finally went up to red and
luckily I stopped and hope there was no damage done.

I will also copy and post from last series of dignosis.

Thanks, I see the benefits to it (cross-posting correctly) too for all
involved.

"Mike" <mik@localnet.com> wrote in message
news:RcgUf.3566$kg.905@news02.roc.ny...[color=blue]
>
> "gp" <gpagmail-news@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1143040441.148637.308050@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...[color=green]
>> Thank you very much, a little precision, I was reading a service manual
>> last night and it suggested to check under/inside the oil filler cap
>> and see if there was a milky/coffe/cream like build up and there was a
>> bit. It then suggested to change the oil (I will check again if there
>> is any milky stuff as there was none on the dipstick), run it for
>> 50-100 continuous miles and check it again. I checked the antifreeze
>> again by drawing some out by the rad drain plug and all seems in order.
>>
>> Now I am in a bit of denial here, so am hoping that the vehicle being
>> so old (88), there could have been some buildup over the past 20 years
>> as nobody actually looks inside the cap or cleans it.[/color]
>
> It is normal for that engine to have a slight builup on the underside of
> the oil filler cap when operated in cold weather. As long as it is only a
> thin film you should be ok. All the 4 cyl toyotas I have seen will do that
> in cold weather.
>[color=green]
>>
>> Anyway, the book suggested the I get a Leak down? test done (if still
>> get milky after the oil change and drive) and a pressure test (for
>> leaks). As for the coolant coming out exhaust, if you suggest it should
>> look like smoke. Would it be fair to say, that it would be noticible by
>> others and/or somthing that is very evident?[/color]
>
> I would just fill the cooling sytem back up making sure you bleed out all
> the air and the have it pressure tested for leaks. If all is ok drive it
> and see if your problem returns, it may just be a sticking thermostat. If
> the thermostat hasn't been changed in a long time I would do that also. I
> would also replace the radiator cap as others have also stated. If after
> all the above and you find no leaks then have a leak down test done.
>
> If you have coolant in the exhaust you should be able to smell it. It has
> a very distinct sweet smell.
>[/color]

I would not recommend a pressure test on an 18 year old cooling system.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

"gp" <gpagmail-news@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1143053273.859180.316650@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
>I bought the vehicle about 2 years ago and do like it a lot -the rad
> and a lot of the houses seem to be in very good condition. It is a 1988
> toyota p/u 2wd, 2.4L, 4cyl, 22re engine with 190,000 km on it (marketed
> as a one ton). It had one previous owner. I am grasping at any positve
> news that it is not a head gasket. I have not smelt any sweet smell
> from the exhaust or excessive --have been smelling rubber, but think
> that is b/c new exhaust was placed a bit close to undermount spare tire
> --hope it is not a rubber smell --no billowing clouds out the exhaust.
> Tonight I will top it up with fresh antifreeze/good water mix, run it
> with cap off, replace with new cap, and monitor the overflow container.
> I will hold off on a pressure test for the moment and see how it goes.[/color]

I would not pressure test an 18 year old system unless whoever is doing the
test is very careful not to over-pressurize the system and actually cause
leaks.

[color=blue]
> Not sure when the thermostat was last changed, but that would not
> explain coolant lose, would it?? Anyway, I do not mind taking it to a
> shop in the near future, but I like to have some info if and when it
> comes to that. Also, all this info has been useful so next time, I can
> catch this earlier as there were signs that this was happening, like
> longer for heater to heat inside, heat guage going up higher than
> normal and then falling rapidly to a better baseline but this was in
> that past 2 weeks, when the heat guage finally went up to red and
> luckily I stopped and hope there was no damage done.
>
> I will also copy and post from last series of dignosis.
>[/color]

A bad thermostat can indirectly cause coolant loss because if it overheats
and turns to steam, it will flow out of the overflow tube. A bad radiator
cap can also cause coolant loss and overheating. The low coolant level can
cause a no heat condition. Also check to make sure the fins in the radiator
are not clogged and hindering airflow through the radiator, and that the fan
clutch is engaging.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

"gp" <gpagmail-news@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1143000480.406104.308890@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
[color=blue]
> I have noticed some white exhaust but it is cold presently and I see
> many cars with similar white exhaust..[/color]

That's common when it's cold outside. If the white smoke continues after the
engine and exhaust are fully warmed up, then you have a problem.

"Ray O" <rokigawa@tristarassociatesDOTcomn> wrote in message
news:1184e$4421e957$44a4a10d$9852@msgid.meganewsservers.com...[color=blue]
>
> "Mike" <mik@localnet.com> wrote in message
> news:RcgUf.3566$kg.905@news02.roc.ny...[color=green]
>>
>> "gp" <gpagmail-news@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:1143040441.148637.308050@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...[color=darkred]
>>> Thank you very much, a little precision, I was reading a service manual
>>> last night and it suggested to check under/inside the oil filler cap
>>> and see if there was a milky/coffe/cream like build up and there was a
>>> bit. It then suggested to change the oil (I will check again if there
>>> is any milky stuff as there was none on the dipstick), run it for
>>> 50-100 continuous miles and check it again. I checked the antifreeze
>>> again by drawing some out by the rad drain plug and all seems in order.
>>>
>>> Now I am in a bit of denial here, so am hoping that the vehicle being
>>> so old (88), there could have been some buildup over the past 20 years
>>> as nobody actually looks inside the cap or cleans it.[/color]
>>
>> It is normal for that engine to have a slight builup on the underside of
>> the oil filler cap when operated in cold weather. As long as it is only a
>> thin film you should be ok. All the 4 cyl toyotas I have seen will do
>> that in cold weather.
>>[color=darkred]
>>>
>>> Anyway, the book suggested the I get a Leak down? test done (if still
>>> get milky after the oil change and drive) and a pressure test (for
>>> leaks). As for the coolant coming out exhaust, if you suggest it should
>>> look like smoke. Would it be fair to say, that it would be noticible by
>>> others and/or somthing that is very evident?[/color]
>>
>> I would just fill the cooling sytem back up making sure you bleed out
>> all the air and the have it pressure tested for leaks. If all is ok drive
>> it and see if your problem returns, it may just be a sticking thermostat.
>> If the thermostat hasn't been changed in a long time I would do that
>> also. I would also replace the radiator cap as others have also stated.
>> If after all the above and you find no leaks then have a leak down test
>> done.
>>
>> If you have coolant in the exhaust you should be able to smell it. It
>> has a very distinct sweet smell.
>>[/color]
>
> I would not recommend a pressure test on an 18 year old cooling system.
> --
>
> Ray O
> (correct punctuation to reply)[/color]

Why not ? If the cooling system is in that poor of a condition that a
pressure test will cause it to fail, those parts needed to be replaced
anyway. Think of it this way. If it were my vehicle I would rather have a
failure in the shop rather than on the road. He has already stated that it
was overheating, the coolant was boiling in the radiator and being blown
into the resevoir.That is already a toture test of the cooling system.
[color=blue]
>
>[/color]

"Mike" <mik@localnet.com> wrote in message
news:CipUf.3652$kg.3005@news02.roc.ny...[color=blue]
>
> "Ray O" <rokigawa@tristarassociatesDOTcomn> wrote in message
> news:1184e$4421e957$44a4a10d$9852@msgid.meganewsservers.com...[color=green]
>>
>> "Mike" <mik@localnet.com> wrote in message
>> news:RcgUf.3566$kg.905@news02.roc.ny...[color=darkred]
>>>
>>> "gp" <gpagmail-news@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:1143040441.148637.308050@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>>>> Thank you very much, a little precision, I was reading a service manual
>>>> last night and it suggested to check under/inside the oil filler cap
>>>> and see if there was a milky/coffe/cream like build up and there was a
>>>> bit. It then suggested to change the oil (I will check again if there
>>>> is any milky stuff as there was none on the dipstick), run it for
>>>> 50-100 continuous miles and check it again. I checked the antifreeze
>>>> again by drawing some out by the rad drain plug and all seems in order.
>>>>
>>>> Now I am in a bit of denial here, so am hoping that the vehicle being
>>>> so old (88), there could have been some buildup over the past 20 years
>>>> as nobody actually looks inside the cap or cleans it.
>>>
>>> It is normal for that engine to have a slight builup on the underside
>>> of the oil filler cap when operated in cold weather. As long as it is
>>> only a thin film you should be ok. All the 4 cyl toyotas I have seen
>>> will do that in cold weather.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, the book suggested the I get a Leak down? test done (if still
>>>> get milky after the oil change and drive) and a pressure test (for
>>>> leaks). As for the coolant coming out exhaust, if you suggest it should
>>>> look like smoke. Would it be fair to say, that it would be noticible by
>>>> others and/or somthing that is very evident?
>>>
>>> I would just fill the cooling sytem back up making sure you bleed out
>>> all the air and the have it pressure tested for leaks. If all is ok
>>> drive it and see if your problem returns, it may just be a sticking
>>> thermostat. If the thermostat hasn't been changed in a long time I would
>>> do that also. I would also replace the radiator cap as others have also
>>> stated. If after all the above and you find no leaks then have a leak
>>> down test done.
>>>
>>> If you have coolant in the exhaust you should be able to smell it. It
>>> has a very distinct sweet smell.
>>>[/color]
>>
>> I would not recommend a pressure test on an 18 year old cooling system.
>> --
>>
>> Ray O
>> (correct punctuation to reply)[/color]
>
> Why not ? If the cooling system is in that poor of a condition that a
> pressure test will cause it to fail, those parts needed to be replaced
> anyway. Think of it this way. If it were my vehicle I would rather have a
> failure in the shop rather than on the road. He has already stated that it
> was overheating, the coolant was boiling in the radiator and being blown
> into the resevoir.That is already a toture test of the cooling system.
>[/color]
Exactly right! The reason for a pressure test is too find a leak or a weak
point in the cooling system. What benefit is their in putting off finding
the problem until help is miles away?
Bob