New brakes

Hello,

I recently took my 2004 4Runner (SR5--2WD) in for a 30,000 mile tune-up to
the Toyota dealership. While changing my oil and rotating my tires, they
informed me that the front brakes were 90% gone.

Being somewhat naive and uninformed about the mechanics of these parts, I
was wondering if someone here could fill me in on the details. The brake
pedal feels like it may be a bit low, but I haven't noticed any other signs
that they may be 90% depleted. They stated the brakes needed to be totally
replaced--not just the pads. This will cost me somewhere between $150-$200.

Is this sort of service normal for a car with 30,000 miles on it? Is this
something I can inspect myself to verify that this service is needed?

Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

"G Ford" <mcg3934@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:tbqdne9O9s9xjrLZRVn-tw@comcast.com...[color=blue]
> Hello,
>
> I recently took my 2004 4Runner (SR5--2WD) in for a 30,000 mile tune-up to
> the Toyota dealership. While changing my oil and rotating my tires, they
> informed me that the front brakes were 90% gone.
>
> Being somewhat naive and uninformed about the mechanics of these parts, I
> was wondering if someone here could fill me in on the details. The brake
> pedal feels like it may be a bit low, but I haven't noticed any other
> signs that they may be 90% depleted. They stated the brakes needed to be
> totally replaced--not just the pads. This will cost me somewhere between
> $150-$200.
>
> Is this sort of service normal for a car with 30,000 miles on it? Is
> this something I can inspect myself to verify that this service is needed?
>
> Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.[/color]


It is "possible" that your pads need to be replaced after 30,000 miles if
you do a lot of in-town driving and also depending on your driving habits.
It is extremely unlikely if you do mostly highway driving.

Obviously, brakes don't wear out unless you use them, and so it is not
directly related to the number of miles you drive. It is possible that if
the brakes are 90% worn that you will not notice any particular problem..

However, most places will do a free inspection, so you might want to get
another opinion. Brake pads are designed to make a lot of noise when the
reach the end of life, before you are in immediate danger of them failing.

That price would cover replacing the pads and turning the rotors -- It would
not cover rotor replacement or caliper rebuild/replacement. Buy the OEM
pads for $40 and find someone to replace them before the remaining 105 is
gone and you need to then replace the rotors too.

"G Ford" <mcg3934@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:tbqdne9O9s9xjrLZRVn-tw@comcast.com...[color=blue]
> Hello,
>
> I recently took my 2004 4Runner (SR5--2WD) in for a 30,000 mile tune-up to
> the Toyota dealership. While changing my oil and rotating my tires, they
> informed me that the front brakes were 90% gone.
>
> Being somewhat naive and uninformed about the mechanics of these parts, I
> was wondering if someone here could fill me in on the details. The brake
> pedal feels like it may be a bit low, but I haven't noticed any other
> signs that they may be 90% depleted. They stated the brakes needed to be
> totally replaced--not just the pads. This will cost me somewhere between
> $150-$200.
>
> Is this sort of service normal for a car with 30,000 miles on it? Is
> this something I can inspect myself to verify that this service is needed?
>
> Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.
>[/color]

"G Ford" <mcg3934@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:tbqdne9O9s9xjrLZRVn-tw@comcast.com...[color=blue]
> Hello,
>
> I recently took my 2004 4Runner (SR5--2WD) in for a 30,000 mile tune-up to
> the Toyota dealership. While changing my oil and rotating my tires, they
> informed me that the front brakes were 90% gone.
>
> Being somewhat naive and uninformed about the mechanics of these parts, I
> was wondering if someone here could fill me in on the details. The brake
> pedal feels like it may be a bit low, but I haven't noticed any other
> signs that they may be 90% depleted. They stated the brakes needed to be
> totally replaced--not just the pads. This will cost me somewhere between
> $150-$200.
>
> Is this sort of service normal for a car with 30,000 miles on it? Is
> this something I can inspect myself to verify that this service is needed?
>
> Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.[/color]

As others have pointed out, brake pad wear is directly related to driving
conditions and driving style.

There are a couple of ways to check the wear on your front brakes. Open the
hood and check the brake fluid level in the master cylinder reservoir. It
is a translucent plastic container with a black rubber cap on the driver's
side of the firewall. If the brake fluid level is near the "low" mark on
the reservoir, then the pads and/or shoes are worn. Note that a high level
does not necessarily mean the pads are not worn because the dealer service
department may have topped off the fluid.

The correct method to check remaining brake pad life is to remove the front
wheels and measure the brake lining thickness. If the thickness on the
inner or outer pad is less than 2 mm, then they need replacement.

$150-$200 sounds very reasonable to replace the pads. This is not a
"complete" replacement because it probably does not include rotor
replacement at that price (if pad wear is caught early, rotors do not
necessarily have to be replaced).
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

"G Ford" <mcg3934@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:tbqdne9O9s9xjrLZRVn-tw@comcast.com...[color=blue]
> Hello,
>
> I recently took my 2004 4Runner (SR5--2WD) in for a 30,000 mile tune-up to
> the Toyota dealership. While changing my oil and rotating my tires, they
> informed me that the front brakes were 90% gone.
>
> Being somewhat naive and uninformed about the mechanics of these parts, I
> was wondering if someone here could fill me in on the details. The brake
> pedal feels like it may be a bit low, but I haven't noticed any other[/color]
signs[color=blue]
> that they may be 90% depleted. They stated the brakes needed to be[/color]
totally[color=blue]
> replaced--not just the pads. This will cost me somewhere between[/color]
$150-$200.[color=blue]
>[/color]

You can tell just by eyeballing the parts, keep in mind the 90% is
a "by eye" figure, not a measured figure, unless they took the pads off
and used a micrometer and did the math (unlikely) If you look at
the rotors you can see if there's any grooving of the rotor, this is caused
by the pad wearing all the way down then you get metal to metal
contact and a grinding sound.
[color=blue]
> Is this sort of service normal for a car with 30,000 miles on it? Is[/color]
this[color=blue]
> something I can inspect myself to verify that this service is needed?
>[/color]

In my opinion they should have taken you into the service bay and
pointed out the problem, this is very easy to explain to an untrained
person and to show them what a new brake pad looks like compared
to a used one.

You have to take any kinds of recommendations you get during
these oil-change tire-rotate services with a grain of salt, no matter
who does them. Most shops use oil changes the way the supermarket
uses milk - they put coupons in the paper for $19.95 oil changes,
which barely cover the parts and certainly not the labor - in hopes
of getting a shot at the more profitable business like brakes. A brake
job is a very easy job to do, very fast to do, and they can put their
junior shop people on it since it is not a complicated job.

I would be leery of "turning" or grinding the rotors. If the rotors are
in good condition they do not need to be turned, and turning removes
material. Usually rotors that are grooved enough to need turning
are so deeply grooved that you might as well replace them.

Ted

G Ford wrote:[color=blue]
> Hello,
>
> I recently took my 2004 4Runner (SR5--2WD) in for a 30,000 mile tune-up to
> the Toyota dealership. While changing my oil and rotating my tires, they
> informed me that the front brakes were 90% gone.
>
> Being somewhat naive and uninformed about the mechanics of these parts, I
> was wondering if someone here could fill me in on the details. The brake
> pedal feels like it may be a bit low, but I haven't noticed any other signs
> that they may be 90% depleted. They stated the brakes needed to be totally
> replaced--not just the pads. This will cost me somewhere between $150-$200.
>
> Is this sort of service normal for a car with 30,000 miles on it? Is this
> something I can inspect myself to verify that this service is needed?
>
> Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.
>
>[/color]
Lots of good advice above.

Very unlikely you've consumed 90% of the brake lining thickness
unless you have the habit of resting your left foot on the brake
pedal while driving, or drive lots of hills and never downshift on
long grades, or other not-the-best driving technique. Most likely
is that the guy who wrote that gets a kickback when the work comes in.

$200 won't totally replace all of any vehicle's brake parts. Do you
have the recommendation in writing? I'm perverse enough to take it
back to the stealership, get a written detailed price for all the
work, take your truck elsewhere and get actual measurements of the
remaining brake pad thickness, and if it isn't reasonably near 90%
gone, report them to your state's auto repair complaint office,
often in the Attorney General's office.

Next time, find a good local independent repair shop to do your
repair work. Expect the price to be less. You only need to return
to the stealership for warranty repair items. Any licensed auto
repair shop can do all your maintenance and satisfy the warranty
requirements. (Much can be done yourself, also, if correctly
documented.)


Ken

I just got a quote from my local South Houston dealer for $210 per axel.
That was turning the rotors and new pads. Most of the cars I have owned did
not require rotors to be turned unless they were grooved (as stated earlier
in another post). I will purchase new pads and do the labor..... unless
someone tells me I need a super doper thingy tool of some kind.
Question, Do all the 03 4Runners use the same brake pads and rotor? I'm
getting conflicting answers from the part stores.

Rob
03 4Runner 4x4
30K miles

"G Ford" <mcg3934@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:tbqdne9O9s9xjrLZRVn-tw@comcast.com...[color=blue]
> Hello,
>
> I recently took my 2004 4Runner (SR5--2WD) in for a 30,000 mile tune-up to
> the Toyota dealership. While changing my oil and rotating my tires, they
> informed me that the front brakes were 90% gone.
>
> Being somewhat naive and uninformed about the mechanics of these parts, I
> was wondering if someone here could fill me in on the details. The brake
> pedal feels like it may be a bit low, but I haven't noticed any other
> signs that they may be 90% depleted. They stated the brakes needed to be
> totally replaced--not just the pads. This will cost me somewhere between
> $150-$200.
>
> Is this sort of service normal for a car with 30,000 miles on it? Is
> this something I can inspect myself to verify that this service is needed?
>
> Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.
>[/color]

"eddie" <epurkiewicz@houston.rr.com> wrote in message
news:MqVXf.50910$1Z5.27220@tornado.texas.rr.com...[color=blue]
>I just got a quote from my local South Houston dealer for $210 per axel.
>That was turning the rotors and new pads. Most of the cars I have owned did
>not require rotors to be turned unless they were grooved (as stated earlier
>in another post). I will purchase new pads and do the labor..... unless
>someone tells me I need a super doper thingy tool of some kind.
> Question, Do all the 03 4Runners use the same brake pads and rotor? I'm
> getting conflicting answers from the part stores.
>
> Rob
> 03 4Runner 4x4
> 30K miles
>[/color]
You do not need any special service tools to replace brake pads on an '03
4Runner. A metric socket set, C-clamp, and some wheel bearing grease or
anti-seize are sufficient.

I always recommend OEM brake pads and rotors because of the large variance
in the quality and performance of aftermarket brake parts. Some aftermarket
brake parts work well, some do not. Rather than spending a lot of money to
experiment, I just stick to OEM.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

I've regreted buy non OEM brake (and ignition) parts - Yota often has sales
on pads or buy from mail order OEM parts place. You'll need anti-squeal
(usually orange) stuff and special grease for the holding pins.

"eddie" <epurkiewicz@houston.rr.com> wrote in message
news:MqVXf.50910$1Z5.27220@tornado.texas.rr.com...[color=blue]
>I just got a quote from my local South Houston dealer for $210 per axel.
>That was turning the rotors and new pads. Most of the cars I have owned did
>not require rotors to be turned unless they were grooved (as stated earlier
>in another post). I will purchase new pads and do the labor..... unless
>someone tells me I need a super doper thingy tool of some kind.
> Question, Do all the 03 4Runners use the same brake pads and rotor? I'm
> getting conflicting answers from the part stores.
>
> Rob
> 03 4Runner 4x4
> 30K miles
>
> "G Ford" <mcg3934@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:tbqdne9O9s9xjrLZRVn-tw@comcast.com...[color=green]
>> Hello,
>>
>> I recently took my 2004 4Runner (SR5--2WD) in for a 30,000 mile tune-up
>> to the Toyota dealership. While changing my oil and rotating my tires,
>> they informed me that the front brakes were 90% gone.
>>
>> Being somewhat naive and uninformed about the mechanics of these parts, I
>> was wondering if someone here could fill me in on the details. The brake
>> pedal feels like it may be a bit low, but I haven't noticed any other
>> signs that they may be 90% depleted. They stated the brakes needed to be
>> totally replaced--not just the pads. This will cost me somewhere between
>> $150-$200.
>>
>> Is this sort of service normal for a car with 30,000 miles on it? Is
>> this something I can inspect myself to verify that this service is
>> needed?
>>
>> Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.
>>[/color]
>
>[/color]

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

"eddie" <epurkiewicz@houston.rr.com> wrote in message
news:MqVXf.50910$1Z5.27220@tornado.texas.rr.com...[color=blue]
>I just got a quote from my local South Houston dealer for $210 per axel.
>That was turning the rotors and new pads. Most of the cars I have owned did
>not require rotors to be turned unless they were grooved (as stated earlier
>in another post). I will purchase new pads and do the labor..... unless
>someone tells me I need a super doper thingy tool of some kind.
> Question, Do all the 03 4Runners use the same brake pads and rotor? I'm
> getting conflicting answers from the part stores.
>
> Rob
> 03 4Runner 4x4
> 30K miles
>
> "G Ford" <mcg3934@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:tbqdne9O9s9xjrLZRVn-tw@comcast.com...[color=green]
>> Hello,
>>
>> I recently took my 2004 4Runner (SR5--2WD) in for a 30,000 mile tune-up
>> to the Toyota dealership. While changing my oil and rotating my tires,
>> they informed me that the front brakes were 90% gone.
>>
>> Being somewhat naive and uninformed about the mechanics of these parts, I
>> was wondering if someone here could fill me in on the details. The brake
>> pedal feels like it may be a bit low, but I haven't noticed any other
>> signs that they may be 90% depleted. They stated the brakes needed to be
>> totally replaced--not just the pads. This will cost me somewhere between
>> $150-$200.
>>
>> Is this sort of service normal for a car with 30,000 miles on it? Is
>> this something I can inspect myself to verify that this service is
>> needed?
>>
>> Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.
>>[/color]
>
>[/color]

"eddie" <epurkiewicz@houston.rr.com> wrote in message
news:b20Yf.39440$uX5.15555@tornado.texas.rr.com...[color=blue]
> Thanks for the feedback everyone.[/color]

You're welcome! Good luck with the work.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

"eddie" <epurkiewicz@houston.rr.com> wrote in message
news:b20Yf.39440$uX5.15555@tornado.texas.rr.com...[color=blue]
> Thanks for the feedback everyone.
>[/color]

Costant driving in creeping traffic is no good on a vehicle designed to
operate at faster speeds. When you drive with your foot on the brake in
creeping traffic, you wear down the pads. If this is something you do
everyday, then expect your pads to wear quickly. If you have an automatic
there is really no way to avoid this problem. Us stick shift users can use
low gears and clutch, though a clutch can wear quicker with constant use.
With Toyota, most owners will agree that OEM parts work better on Toyotas
than a brake pad by Raybestos or some other quality brake part manufacturer.
I tried them on my truck once and they clanked everytime I stepped on the
pedal, meaning an improper fit.

My 2 cents

Thanks everyone. Great insight.



"Mark A" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:2sadnbyvCpYuirLZnZ2dnUVZ_tidnZ2d@comcast.com...[color=blue]
> "G Ford" <mcg3934@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:tbqdne9O9s9xjrLZRVn-tw@comcast.com...[color=green]
>> Hello,
>>
>> I recently took my 2004 4Runner (SR5--2WD) in for a 30,000 mile tune-up
>> to the Toyota dealership. While changing my oil and rotating my tires,
>> they informed me that the front brakes were 90% gone.
>>
>> Being somewhat naive and uninformed about the mechanics of these parts, I
>> was wondering if someone here could fill me in on the details. The brake
>> pedal feels like it may be a bit low, but I haven't noticed any other
>> signs that they may be 90% depleted. They stated the brakes needed to be
>> totally replaced--not just the pads. This will cost me somewhere between
>> $150-$200.
>>
>> Is this sort of service normal for a car with 30,000 miles on it? Is
>> this something I can inspect myself to verify that this service is
>> needed?
>>
>> Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.[/color]
>
>
> It is "possible" that your pads need to be replaced after 30,000 miles if
> you do a lot of in-town driving and also depending on your driving habits.
> It is extremely unlikely if you do mostly highway driving.
>
> Obviously, brakes don't wear out unless you use them, and so it is not
> directly related to the number of miles you drive. It is possible that if
> the brakes are 90% worn that you will not notice any particular problem..
>
> However, most places will do a free inspection, so you might want to get
> another opinion. Brake pads are designed to make a lot of noise when the
> reach the end of life, before you are in immediate danger of them failing.
>[/color]

Wolfgang wrote:[color=blue]
> I've regreted buy non OEM brake (and ignition) parts - Yota often has sales
> on pads or buy from mail order OEM parts place. You'll need anti-squeal
> (usually orange) stuff and special grease for the holding pins.
>[/color]
When I purchased OEM brake pads, they came with two small bags
containing black grease? what are they? where I apply them to?

<wenmang@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1144096684.169562.191530@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
>
> Wolfgang wrote:[color=green]
>> I've regreted buy non OEM brake (and ignition) parts - Yota often has
>> sales
>> on pads or buy from mail order OEM parts place. You'll need anti-squeal
>> (usually orange) stuff and special grease for the holding pins.
>>[/color]
> When I purchased OEM brake pads, they came with two small bags
> containing black grease? what are they? where I apply them to?
>[/color]

the caliper slide bolts.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)