Don't put those 4runners away wet!

Another dealer story
Just got my 4runner back from the dealer. I request my work be done by
the most senior guy, master mechanic, who is also the foreman. Figure
if paying $89/hour then get the best.

It was time to replace all fluids & repack wheel bearings.
They phoned & said inside of brake rotors badly rusted & needed
replacing. And needed front brake service because of excessive grime &
dust buildup.
I had front pads replaced 18 months / 15k miles ago.
So my position is I've had ALL maintenance done by the dealer, at the
recommended intervals. I follow schedule A because of the Canadian
winters. I understand replacing parts that wear out but I'm upset when
parts fail in this manner.

I asked the foreman why they'd get like this in 18 months? He asked if
I took my truck for a drive, after washing, to dry the brake system!
About 8 hand washes & lots of touchless (but you drive after those).
Now after thinking about this what about rainy days or our months of
slushy driving in the snow? It's going to bed dripping wet for months
at a time. Makes no sense.

Appreciate your feedback.

"DonLogan" <navajo@neonfeather.com> wrote in message
news:ih5h62piaf8p278ftotvcve8h6cn2gt403@4ax.com...[color=blue]
> Another dealer story
> Just got my 4runner back from the dealer. I request my work be done by
> the most senior guy, master mechanic, who is also the foreman. Figure
> if paying $89/hour then get the best.
>
> It was time to replace all fluids & repack wheel bearings.
> They phoned & said inside of brake rotors badly rusted & needed
> replacing. And needed front brake service because of excessive grime &
> dust buildup.
> I had front pads replaced 18 months / 15k miles ago.
> So my position is I've had ALL maintenance done by the dealer, at the
> recommended intervals. I follow schedule A because of the Canadian
> winters. I understand replacing parts that wear out but I'm upset when
> parts fail in this manner.
>
> I asked the foreman why they'd get like this in 18 months? He asked if
> I took my truck for a drive, after washing, to dry the brake system!
> About 8 hand washes & lots of touchless (but you drive after those).
> Now after thinking about this what about rainy days or our months of
> slushy driving in the snow? It's going to bed dripping wet for months
> at a time. Makes no sense.
>
> Appreciate your feedback.[/color]


Random thoughts (more may follow later):

1) The dealer's definition of "most senior guy" is probably different from
yours. Theirs means "biggest producer".

2) You're taking the vehicle to a dealer. In my opinion, this translates
into "I like being sodomized with a steel brush that's been preheated in an
oven, and afterward, please take a crap on my face". They did what they
usually do, and now you're wondering why? Even if they're 100% correct in
their diagnosis, the explanations provided provided by dealers are usually
very annoying or incomplete. They seem to think it's 1957 and they're
talking to women who haven't been allowed to know anything about cars.

For what its worth, I have an SR5 and a 4Runner. Both go through a creek
leaving home, and of course, returning.

Neither has had the rust problem described by your dealer.

My own viewpoint is that I never ask for work unless I'm very specific
about what is wrong, or what I want done.

To me, going to a mechanic and describing a general symptom is an open
invitation to get taken, unless you are very sure of the shop.

I believe many on this board have the same approach.

Richard Harper
Morgan Hill, Ca

"rdhrdh" <rdharper@starband.net> wrote in message
news:555dad1ad08aefa8ab52a6aace8abb5e@localhost.talkaboutautos.com...[color=blue]
> For what its worth, I have an SR5 and a 4Runner. Both go through a creek
> leaving home, and of course, returning.
>
> Neither has had the rust problem described by your dealer.
>
> My own viewpoint is that I never ask for work unless I'm very specific
> about what is wrong, or what I want done.
>
> To me, going to a mechanic and describing a general symptom is an open
> invitation to get taken, unless you are very sure of the shop.
>
> I believe many on this board have the same approach.
>
> Richard Harper
> Morgan Hill, Ca
>[/color]

I'll accept unsolicited repair ideas from my mechanic, but for good reasons:

1) He'll actually violate the unbelievably serious "insurance company
regulations", bring me out to the car, and show me exactly what he's talking
about.

2) Numerous times, I've *wanted* things done and he's told me to save my
money - the things I wanted were not necessary yet.

3) His business depends 100% on word of mouth, and he's earned his
customers' respect.

I can't believe it's that difficult to find others like mine, with a little
but of effort.

BS - dealership is making money - hand over hand on that one! Inside of
rotors get rubbed by brake pads just like the outside do s- is he saying the
caliper needs to be replaced? A $4.98 can of spray brake clearner will fix
the grime. I recently had dealer quote me (in writing on service ticket for
the steering link recall) that the 2 $5 plastic steering snubbers were gone
(duh!) and it would be $106 to snap the 2 on! Give me a break!

"DonLogan" <navajo@neonfeather.com> wrote in message
news:ih5h62piaf8p278ftotvcve8h6cn2gt403@4ax.com...[color=blue]
> Another dealer story
> Just got my 4runner back from the dealer. I request my work be done by
> the most senior guy, master mechanic, who is also the foreman. Figure
> if paying $89/hour then get the best.
>
> It was time to replace all fluids & repack wheel bearings.
> They phoned & said inside of brake rotors badly rusted & needed
> replacing. And needed front brake service because of excessive grime &
> dust buildup.
> I had front pads replaced 18 months / 15k miles ago.
> So my position is I've had ALL maintenance done by the dealer, at the
> recommended intervals. I follow schedule A because of the Canadian
> winters. I understand replacing parts that wear out but I'm upset when
> parts fail in this manner.
>
> I asked the foreman why they'd get like this in 18 months? He asked if
> I took my truck for a drive, after washing, to dry the brake system!
> About 8 hand washes & lots of touchless (but you drive after those).
> Now after thinking about this what about rainy days or our months of
> slushy driving in the snow? It's going to bed dripping wet for months
> at a time. Makes no sense.
>
> Appreciate your feedback.[/color]

On Mon, 15 May 2006 16:30:28 -0400, "Wolfgang"
<NOwolfXgang_dieterxSPAM@NOXcox.netNOT> found these unused words floating
about:
[color=blue]
>BS - dealership is making money - hand over hand on that one! Inside of
>rotors get rubbed by brake pads just like the outside do s- is he saying the
>caliper needs to be replaced? A $4.98 can of spray brake clearner will fix
>the grime. I recently had dealer quote me (in writing on service ticket for
>the steering link recall) that the 2 $5 plastic steering snubbers were gone
>(duh!) and it would be $106 to snap the 2 on! Give me a break!
>[/color]
-=Steering Link Recall=- ???

Another one Toybloata isn't sending out notices to customers?

Which years and models if the info is handy, please!

This was announced last Sep and applies to like 89-96 Rnrs and others with
ppower steering. I'm orig owner - never moved and didn't get recall leter.
I called and gave dealer my VIN and they said yes it was on list. All day
job and replaced link bar goes from steering box to each tie rod side. Mine
was a '90.

ANNOUNCEMENT-

Toyota announced Tuesday that it will issue a voluntary "Special Service
Campaign" for 978,000 vehicles. The campaign involves certain power-steering
equipped 1989-1996 4Runner SUVs, compact pick-ups and T-100 pick-ups.

In these vehicles, a crack can develop in the steering relay rod if the
steering wheel is turned repeatedly under conditions requiring extreme
force, such as when the vehicle is stopped. In the worst possible case, the
company said, the rod may fracture causing a loss of steering control.

Owners of these vehicles will be notified by mail, Toyota said, beginning in
mid-September. Customers with questions are directed to contact Toyota
customer service at 800-331-4331.



"Sir F. A. Rien" <jaSPAMc@gbr.online.com> wrote in message
news:4b3i62h0emjesgrg5cbqcr1ol13hdktvj3@4ax.com...[color=blue]
> On Mon, 15 May 2006 16:30:28 -0400, "Wolfgang"
> <NOwolfXgang_dieterxSPAM@NOXcox.netNOT> found these unused words floating
> about:
>[color=green]
>>BS - dealership is making money - hand over hand on that one! Inside of
>>rotors get rubbed by brake pads just like the outside do s- is he saying
>>the
>>caliper needs to be replaced? A $4.98 can of spray brake clearner will
>>fix
>>the grime. I recently had dealer quote me (in writing on service ticket
>>for
>>the steering link recall) that the 2 $5 plastic steering snubbers were
>>gone
>>(duh!) and it would be $106 to snap the 2 on! Give me a break!
>>[/color]
> -=Steering Link Recall=- ???
>
> Another one Toybloata isn't sending out notices to customers?
>
> Which years and models if the info is handy, please!
>[/color]

"DonLogan" <navajo@neonfeather.com> wrote in message
news:ih5h62piaf8p278ftotvcve8h6cn2gt403@4ax.com...[color=blue]
> Another dealer story
> Just got my 4runner back from the dealer. I request my work be done by
> the most senior guy, master mechanic, who is also the foreman. Figure
> if paying $89/hour then get the best.
>
> It was time to replace all fluids & repack wheel bearings.
> They phoned & said inside of brake rotors badly rusted & needed
> replacing. And needed front brake service because of excessive grime &
> dust buildup.
> I had front pads replaced 18 months / 15k miles ago.
> So my position is I've had ALL maintenance done by the dealer, at the
> recommended intervals. I follow schedule A because of the Canadian
> winters. I understand replacing parts that wear out but I'm upset when
> parts fail in this manner.
>
> I asked the foreman why they'd get like this in 18 months? He asked if
> I took my truck for a drive, after washing, to dry the brake system!
> About 8 hand washes & lots of touchless (but you drive after those).
> Now after thinking about this what about rainy days or our months of
> slushy driving in the snow? It's going to bed dripping wet for months
> at a time. Makes no sense.
>
> Appreciate your feedback.[/color]
I made my living as a mechanic working for my grandpa - he was an
independent garage owner who depended on the little yellow page ad and word
of mouth advertising. I can't tell you how many cars we had brought in after
"the dealer" tried to fix it and didn't or fleeced the customer for a bunch
of un-needed parts, when all the time the part that needed to be repaired
wasn't. I can also tell you that 99% of the time, the "inside" of the brake
rotors ARE rusty - brake rotors are typically cast steel and the area
between the machined, parallel sides where the caliper grips via the pads is
often "rusty", simply because you can't preserve that area easily. So, yes,
it often does rust in there. It's harmless. Normal front brake pads will
last between 35000 and 50000 miles, depending on how hard you stop and if
you're pulling a trailer or not. Rears will often go 60-70000 miles before
needing replacement. Actually, unless you're driving through water (creek
crossing), you don't really need to repack wheel bearings that often - about
every 20K is fine.

Sounds to me like the dealer had a glut of rotors come in and they needed to
get rid of them. You happened to be the lucky guy to help them out. Someone
else mentioned finding a good independent garage - I second that motion.
Best of luck to you.
r/
Steve

DonLogan wrote:[color=blue]
> Another dealer story
> Just got my 4runner back from the dealer. I request my work be done by
> the most senior guy, master mechanic, who is also the foreman. Figure
> if paying $89/hour then get the best.
>
> It was time to replace all fluids & repack wheel bearings.
> They phoned & said inside of brake rotors badly rusted & needed
> replacing. And needed front brake service because of excessive grime &
> dust buildup.
> I had front pads replaced 18 months / 15k miles ago.
> So my position is I've had ALL maintenance done by the dealer, at the
> recommended intervals. I follow schedule A because of the Canadian
> winters. I understand replacing parts that wear out but I'm upset when
> parts fail in this manner.
>
> I asked the foreman why they'd get like this in 18 months? He asked if
> I took my truck for a drive, after washing, to dry the brake system!
> About 8 hand washes & lots of touchless (but you drive after those).
> Now after thinking about this what about rainy days or our months of
> slushy driving in the snow? It's going to bed dripping wet for months
> at a time. Makes no sense.
>
> Appreciate your feedback.[/color]
I'd have them show you the problem areas, take photos, and then have
a good independent shop take a look. I think you are being cheated.
If so, I'd report this dealership to whichever agency regulates
auto repair in your jurisdiction. Be sure you have their paperwork
describing the problem.

I agree with all the good advice here. By the way, rotors are cast
iron, not cast steel.


Ken

"Ken Shelton" <shelton@cablespeed.com> wrote in message
news:SI2dnS9x5NzvcfTZRVn-pA@cablespeedwa.com...[color=blue]
> DonLogan wrote:[color=green]
>> Another dealer story
>> Just got my 4runner back from the dealer. I request my work be done by
>> the most senior guy, master mechanic, who is also the foreman. Figure
>> if paying $89/hour then get the best.
>>
>> It was time to replace all fluids & repack wheel bearings. They phoned &
>> said inside of brake rotors badly rusted & needed
>> replacing. And needed front brake service because of excessive grime &
>> dust buildup. I had front pads replaced 18 months / 15k miles ago. So my
>> position is I've had ALL maintenance done by the dealer, at the
>> recommended intervals. I follow schedule A because of the Canadian
>> winters. I understand replacing parts that wear out but I'm upset when
>> parts fail in this manner.
>>
>> I asked the foreman why they'd get like this in 18 months? He asked if
>> I took my truck for a drive, after washing, to dry the brake system!
>> About 8 hand washes & lots of touchless (but you drive after those).
>> Now after thinking about this what about rainy days or our months of
>> slushy driving in the snow? It's going to bed dripping wet for months
>> at a time. Makes no sense.
>>
>> Appreciate your feedback.[/color]
> I'd have them show you the problem areas, take photos, and then have a
> good independent shop take a look. I think you are being cheated. If so,
> I'd report this dealership to whichever agency regulates auto repair in
> your jurisdiction. Be sure you have their paperwork describing the
> problem.
>
> I agree with all the good advice here. By the way, rotors are cast iron,
> not cast steel.
>
>
> Ken
>[/color]
Ooops - I stand corrected. You're right, Ken. Musta been asleep - I've
turned too many of them to know they're cast. Duh- what was I thinking?
r/
Steve

"Wolfgang" <NOwolfXgang_dieterxSPAM@NOXcox.netNOT> wrote:
[color=blue]
>BS - dealership is making money - hand over hand on that one! Inside of
>rotors get rubbed by brake pads just like the outside do s- is he saying the
>caliper needs to be replaced?[/color]

no, just the rotors. i'm getting them back & will examine them.
[color=blue]
> A $4.98 can of spray brake clearner will fix
>the grime. I recently had dealer quote me (in writing on service ticket for
>the steering link recall) that the 2 $5 plastic steering snubbers were gone
>(duh!) and it would be $106 to snap the 2 on! Give me a break!
>
>"DonLogan" <navajo@neonfeather.com> wrote in message
>news:ih5h62piaf8p278ftotvcve8h6cn2gt403@4ax.com...[color=green]
>> Another dealer story
>> Just got my 4runner back from the dealer. I request my work be done by
>> the most senior guy, master mechanic, who is also the foreman. Figure
>> if paying $89/hour then get the best.
>>
>> It was time to replace all fluids & repack wheel bearings.
>> They phoned & said inside of brake rotors badly rusted & needed
>> replacing. And needed front brake service because of excessive grime &
>> dust buildup.
>> I had front pads replaced 18 months / 15k miles ago.
>> So my position is I've had ALL maintenance done by the dealer, at the
>> recommended intervals. I follow schedule A because of the Canadian
>> winters. I understand replacing parts that wear out but I'm upset when
>> parts fail in this manner.
>>
>> I asked the foreman why they'd get like this in 18 months? He asked if
>> I took my truck for a drive, after washing, to dry the brake system!
>> About 8 hand washes & lots of touchless (but you drive after those).
>> Now after thinking about this what about rainy days or our months of
>> slushy driving in the snow? It's going to bed dripping wet for months
>> at a time. Makes no sense.
>>
>> Appreciate your feedback.[/color]
>[/color]

Ken Shelton <shelton@cablespeed.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>DonLogan wrote:[color=green]
>> Another dealer story
>> Just got my 4runner back from the dealer. I request my work be done by
>> the most senior guy, master mechanic, who is also the foreman. Figure
>> if paying $89/hour then get the best.
>>
>> It was time to replace all fluids & repack wheel bearings.
>> They phoned & said inside of brake rotors badly rusted & needed
>> replacing. And needed front brake service because of excessive grime &
>> dust buildup.
>> I had front pads replaced 18 months / 15k miles ago.
>> So my position is I've had ALL maintenance done by the dealer, at the
>> recommended intervals. I follow schedule A because of the Canadian
>> winters. I understand replacing parts that wear out but I'm upset when
>> parts fail in this manner.
>>
>> I asked the foreman why they'd get like this in 18 months? He asked if
>> I took my truck for a drive, after washing, to dry the brake system!
>> About 8 hand washes & lots of touchless (but you drive after those).
>> Now after thinking about this what about rainy days or our months of
>> slushy driving in the snow? It's going to bed dripping wet for months
>> at a time. Makes no sense.
>>
>> Appreciate your feedback.[/color]
>I'd have them show you the problem areas, take photos, and then have
>a good independent shop take a look. I think you are being cheated.
> If so, I'd report this dealership to whichever agency regulates
>auto repair in your jurisdiction. Be sure you have their paperwork
>describing the problem.
>
>I agree with all the good advice here. By the way, rotors are cast
>iron, not cast steel.
>Ken[/color]

It's a done deal. I'm picking up the old rotors & will see how bad
they are.

Ken Shelton <shelton@cablespeed.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>DonLogan wrote:[color=green]
>> Another dealer story
>> Just got my 4runner back from the dealer. I request my work be done by
>> the most senior guy, master mechanic, who is also the foreman. Figure
>> if paying $89/hour then get the best.
>>
>> It was time to replace all fluids & repack wheel bearings.
>> They phoned & said inside of brake rotors badly rusted & needed
>> replacing. And needed front brake service because of excessive grime &
>> dust buildup.
>> I had front pads replaced 18 months / 15k miles ago.
>> So my position is I've had ALL maintenance done by the dealer, at the
>> recommended intervals. I follow schedule A because of the Canadian
>> winters. I understand replacing parts that wear out but I'm upset when
>> parts fail in this manner.
>>
>> I asked the foreman why they'd get like this in 18 months? He asked if
>> I took my truck for a drive, after washing, to dry the brake system!
>> About 8 hand washes & lots of touchless (but you drive after those).
>> Now after thinking about this what about rainy days or our months of
>> slushy driving in the snow? It's going to bed dripping wet for months
>> at a time. Makes no sense.
>>
>> Appreciate your feedback.[/color]
>I'd have them show you the problem areas, take photos, and then have
>a good independent shop take a look. I think you are being cheated.
> If so, I'd report this dealership to whichever agency regulates
>auto repair in your jurisdiction. Be sure you have their paperwork
>describing the problem.
>
>I agree with all the good advice here. By the way, rotors are cast
>iron, not cast steel.
>
>
>Ken[/color]

And this just keeps on getting better!!

Not being an absolute I was told by my friendly "Service Advisor"
(another story) that when (s)he uplifted me from the original quote
(all fluids & misc above), to now include rotor replacement, that
they'd save the parts and show me. So considering my options I said go
for it. It's our primary vehicle.
When I picked it up I had minor sticker shock. So had several
phone/voice-mails with the above SA. He said it was under Nick, the
honcho's, bench. And I said I'd be over the next week to pick them up.

My good lady said she was going near the dealership so? Said great,
Shawn is the "Service Advisor" & Nick is the Foreman/Designated Tech.
Tell them to put the evidence in the back. Figured it would resolve
itself if she was armed with the names of the primaries.

She arrived back & reported failure.

She met the aforementioned Shawn & observed 45 TENSE MINUTES of him
ducking & diving. Final (after many) stories is that they were thrown
out with the rubbish!!! When? ? So? ?

So have a call in to the GM. SA haven't called to explain (duh!)
Is this any way to run a railroad? I'm a retired, dedicated follower
of the maintenance manual!