Radiator leak?

Recently, while checking the oil and fluids on my '94 4Runner (V6), I
noticed a few drops of coolant had seeped out the top of the radiator.
I wiped off the coolant, and noticed that the black metal was now
brass looking, like the coolant had removed the paint. I had seen
this a few weeks ago, but did not connect that it was coolant. What
really cinched it was the fact that I have red Toyota coolant in it
now.

I guess the next question is - when is the entire radiator going to
fail?

Has anyone seen this? My 4Runner has 188,000 miles on it. I've kept
the service up on it, actually just got flushed at 180,000 service.

Thanks.

Bill
Chesapeake, VA

Change your radiator as soon as possible. It's not worth fixing, other
cracks and fractures will occur. I overheated my engine, and ended up
having to rebuild it later. I tried fixing it first, removing the radiator,
taking it to a radiator shop, reinstall it, then have more leaks later. At
$40 per service, it was cheaper to replace the radiator. The cause is the
design of the Toyota Radiator, when the caps are formed, the brass is
stretched like a plastic trashbag overfilled. Certain areas get very thin
and over time tiny fractures will occur. I got an aftermarket 3 row
radiator for $140.

It's pretty easy to replace. Drain the radiator, first. Unclamp the hoses.
If you have an Auto transmission, remove the cooler lines and plug the lines
temporarily. Then remove the four bolts, two on each side of the radiator.
Also remove the lower cowling, so you don't have to remove the fan. Lift
out. To install do everything in reverse, and refill with your mix of
coolant and Transmission fluid, if needed.


"Bill" <canspam@spam.net> wrote in message
news:n2dla2dfs9tat9p8hv2jks51rpknl6vah3@4ax.com...[color=blue]
> Recently, while checking the oil and fluids on my '94 4Runner (V6), I
> noticed a few drops of coolant had seeped out the top of the radiator.
> I wiped off the coolant, and noticed that the black metal was now
> brass looking, like the coolant had removed the paint. I had seen
> this a few weeks ago, but did not connect that it was coolant. What
> really cinched it was the fact that I have red Toyota coolant in it
> now.
>
> I guess the next question is - when is the entire radiator going to
> fail?
>
> Has anyone seen this? My 4Runner has 188,000 miles on it. I've kept
> the service up on it, actually just got flushed at 180,000 service.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Bill
> Chesapeake, VA
>
>
>
>[/color]

Hey!
Try replacing the cap first. The seal tends to fail. Keep your eyes open for
leaks in that area.
Bill

"Bill" <canspam@spam.net> wrote in message
news:n2dla2dfs9tat9p8hv2jks51rpknl6vah3@4ax.com...[color=blue]
> Recently, while checking the oil and fluids on my '94 4Runner (V6), I
> noticed a few drops of coolant had seeped out the top of the radiator.
> I wiped off the coolant, and noticed that the black metal was now
> brass looking, like the coolant had removed the paint. I had seen
> this a few weeks ago, but did not connect that it was coolant. What
> really cinched it was the fact that I have red Toyota coolant in it
> now.
>
> I guess the next question is - when is the entire radiator going to
> fail?
>
> Has anyone seen this? My 4Runner has 188,000 miles on it. I've kept
> the service up on it, actually just got flushed at 180,000 service.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Bill
> Chesapeake, VA
>
>
>
>[/color]

Thanks. I don't know how long this has been seeping like this. I
checked tonight, and there was no fluid on the top of the radiator.

I found a replacement radiator for $137 at etoyotaparts.com. Do you
know anything about them? I hate getting ripped off. I'm going to
price this at the dealer, but I bet it's at least 4x the price.

Since I just did the 180,000 service about 8,000 miles ago, could I
re-use the coolant? I have a 5-spd, so I should not have problems
like getting ATF mixed in the catch basin with coolant.

Thanks again. Messy job, but not all too hard I guess. Much easier
when I was younger.

Bill
Chesapeake, VA







On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 18:54:29 GMT, "Joseph Wind" <jpg@gif.com.invalid>
wrote:
[color=blue]
>Change your radiator as soon as possible. It's not worth fixing, other
>cracks and fractures will occur. I overheated my engine, and ended up
>having to rebuild it later. I tried fixing it first, removing the radiator,
>taking it to a radiator shop, reinstall it, then have more leaks later. At
>$40 per service, it was cheaper to replace the radiator. The cause is the
>design of the Toyota Radiator, when the caps are formed, the brass is
>stretched like a plastic trashbag overfilled. Certain areas get very thin
>and over time tiny fractures will occur. I got an aftermarket 3 row
>radiator for $140.
>
>It's pretty easy to replace. Drain the radiator, first. Unclamp the hoses.
>If you have an Auto transmission, remove the cooler lines and plug the lines
>temporarily. Then remove the four bolts, two on each side of the radiator.
>Also remove the lower cowling, so you don't have to remove the fan. Lift
>out. To install do everything in reverse, and refill with your mix of
>coolant and Transmission fluid, if needed.
>
>
>"Bill" <canspam@spam.net> wrote in message
>news:n2dla2dfs9tat9p8hv2jks51rpknl6vah3@4ax.com...[color=green]
>> Recently, while checking the oil and fluids on my '94 4Runner (V6), I
>> noticed a few drops of coolant had seeped out the top of the radiator.
>> I wiped off the coolant, and noticed that the black metal was now
>> brass looking, like the coolant had removed the paint. I had seen
>> this a few weeks ago, but did not connect that it was coolant. What
>> really cinched it was the fact that I have red Toyota coolant in it
>> now.
>>
>> I guess the next question is - when is the entire radiator going to
>> fail?
>>
>> Has anyone seen this? My 4Runner has 188,000 miles on it. I've kept
>> the service up on it, actually just got flushed at 180,000 service.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Bill
>> Chesapeake, VA
>>
>>
>>
>>[/color]
>[/color]

"Joseph Wind" <jpg@gif.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:LVbrg.3774$Og3.1749@trnddc06...[color=blue]
> $137 sounds like a good price. I paid about the same at NAPA auto parts.
> I forget the name of the maker but it's a well known after market maker of
> radiators. One thing for sure they are made better the Toyota OEM
> radiator. I would not re-use the coolant. Just put in a bottle of Coolant
> and Water. Some like a 50/50 mix, but this time of the year you don't need
> that until winter. If your concerned about the environment, dump the
> coolant at you local mechanic. Whatever you do, don't dump it on the
> grass, it will leave a brown spot that will take a long while to grow
> back.
>
> It's not as messy as you would think, I had to do it twice, before finally
> buying a new radiator. One thing I left out in my instructions, is to
> remove the lower front cowling (different from the radiator cowling), but
> you probably figured that out to get to the drain.
>
> Good Luck!!!
> JW[/color]

NAPA usually stocks the Modine. Keep the receipts because they have a
lifetime warranty. I'm on my 4th radiator (the second free Modine). I've
been told by a Toyota tech and a radiator repair shop that the original
Toyota radiators fail around the filler neck because of stress issues. Also
the radiators, if not properly grounded, will fail due to electrolysis.

I had the same issue, just replace the radiator

On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 14:40:04 -0400, Bill <canspam@spam.net> wrote:
[color=blue]
>Recently, while checking the oil and fluids on my '94 4Runner (V6), I
>noticed a few drops of coolant had seeped out the top of the radiator.
>I wiped off the coolant, and noticed that the black metal was now
>brass looking, like the coolant had removed the paint. I had seen
>this a few weeks ago, but did not connect that it was coolant. What
>really cinched it was the fact that I have red Toyota coolant in it
>now.
>
>I guess the next question is - when is the entire radiator going to
>fail?
>
>Has anyone seen this? My 4Runner has 188,000 miles on it. I've kept
>the service up on it, actually just got flushed at 180,000 service.
>
>Thanks.
>
>Bill
>Chesapeake, VA
>
>
>[/color]

"AndyK." <krapchaa@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:k4grg.4007$IF2.1420@bignews7.bellsouth.net...[color=blue]
>
> "Joseph Wind" <jpg@gif.com.invalid> wrote in message
> news:LVbrg.3774$Og3.1749@trnddc06...[color=green]
>> $137 sounds like a good price. I paid about the same at NAPA auto parts.
>> I forget the name of the maker but it's a well known after market maker
>> of radiators. One thing for sure they are made better the Toyota OEM
>> radiator. I would not re-use the coolant. Just put in a bottle of
>> Coolant and Water. Some like a 50/50 mix, but this time of the year you
>> don't need that until winter. If your concerned about the environment,
>> dump the coolant at you local mechanic. Whatever you do, don't dump it
>> on the grass, it will leave a brown spot that will take a long while to
>> grow back.
>>
>> It's not as messy as you would think, I had to do it twice, before
>> finally buying a new radiator. One thing I left out in my instructions,
>> is to remove the lower front cowling (different from the radiator
>> cowling), but you probably figured that out to get to the drain.
>>
>> Good Luck!!!
>> JW[/color]
>
> NAPA usually stocks the Modine. Keep the receipts because they have a
> lifetime warranty. I'm on my 4th radiator (the second free Modine). I've
> been told by a Toyota tech and a radiator repair shop that the original
> Toyota radiators fail around the filler neck because of stress issues.
> Also the radiators, if not properly grounded, will fail due to
> electrolysis.[/color]

That's the name I was trying to remember. My radiator was failing all over
the top cap, mainly around the ridges, and the neck also. I've had it for 5
years now and no problems since I replaced it. Knock on wood!!!

Top seam of my '89 Toyota radiator started "seeping," etc. as described,
before 100,000 mi. I had it "rodded out" and redone at a local radiator shop
for about $65. That lasted for another 90,000 mi. but the same shop won't
redo it a seciond time. I suspect that the top seams on the OEM radiators
weren't that good.

$137 is a reasonable price for a new radiator. Don't know where you're
located, but you might take a look at Radiator Express, online if you're
still comparison shopping.




"Bill" <canspam@spam.net> wrote in message
news:n2dla2dfs9tat9p8hv2jks51rpknl6vah3@4ax.com...[color=blue]
> Recently, while checking the oil and fluids on my '94 4Runner (V6), I
> noticed a few drops of coolant had seeped out the top of the radiator.
> I wiped off the coolant, and noticed that the black metal was now
> brass looking, like the coolant had removed the paint. I had seen
> this a few weeks ago, but did not connect that it was coolant. What
> really cinched it was the fact that I have red Toyota coolant in it
> now.
>
> I guess the next question is - when is the entire radiator going to
> fail?
>
> Has anyone seen this? My 4Runner has 188,000 miles on it. I've kept
> the service up on it, actually just got flushed at 180,000 service.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Bill
> Chesapeake, VA
>
>
>
>[/color]

Based on previous posts, I found the Modine 2272 at a local Napa store
and am going to get it today. I looked at a few of the online places,
but think I ought to just get this locally and getit installed.

Thanks for the info.

Bill



On Fri, 07 Jul 2006 20:12:21 GMT, "R.E.Pasco" <richp945@earthlink.net>
wrote:
[color=blue]
>Top seam of my '89 Toyota radiator started "seeping," etc. as described,
>before 100,000 mi. I had it "rodded out" and redone at a local radiator shop
>for about $65. That lasted for another 90,000 mi. but the same shop won't
>redo it a seciond time. I suspect that the top seams on the OEM radiators
>weren't that good.
>
>$137 is a reasonable price for a new radiator. Don't know where you're
>located, but you might take a look at Radiator Express, online if you're
>still comparison shopping.
>
>
>
>
>"Bill" <canspam@spam.net> wrote in message
>news:n2dla2dfs9tat9p8hv2jks51rpknl6vah3@4ax.com...[color=green]
>> Recently, while checking the oil and fluids on my '94 4Runner (V6), I
>> noticed a few drops of coolant had seeped out the top of the radiator.
>> I wiped off the coolant, and noticed that the black metal was now
>> brass looking, like the coolant had removed the paint. I had seen
>> this a few weeks ago, but did not connect that it was coolant. What
>> really cinched it was the fact that I have red Toyota coolant in it
>> now.
>>
>> I guess the next question is - when is the entire radiator going to
>> fail?
>>
>> Has anyone seen this? My 4Runner has 188,000 miles on it. I've kept
>> the service up on it, actually just got flushed at 180,000 service.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Bill
>> Chesapeake, VA
>>
>>
>>
>>[/color]
>[/color]

I called Napa and they carry the Modine, whcih I plan to buy today.
I'll also have to pick up some red coolant today. I'm pretty pleased
with the OEM parts reliability in this Toyota. I've got 189,000
miles on it so far, and have tried to keep up on scheduled
maintenance.

Thanks for all your help, JW.

Bill


On Fri, 07 Jul 2006 09:35:41 GMT, "Joseph Wind" <jpg@gif.com.invalid>
wrote:
[color=blue]
>
>"AndyK." <krapchaa@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>news:k4grg.4007$IF2.1420@bignews7.bellsouth.net...[color=green]
>>
>> "Joseph Wind" <jpg@gif.com.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:LVbrg.3774$Og3.1749@trnddc06...[color=darkred]
>>> $137 sounds like a good price. I paid about the same at NAPA auto parts.
>>> I forget the name of the maker but it's a well known after market maker
>>> of radiators. One thing for sure they are made better the Toyota OEM
>>> radiator. I would not re-use the coolant. Just put in a bottle of
>>> Coolant and Water. Some like a 50/50 mix, but this time of the year you
>>> don't need that until winter. If your concerned about the environment,
>>> dump the coolant at you local mechanic. Whatever you do, don't dump it
>>> on the grass, it will leave a brown spot that will take a long while to
>>> grow back.
>>>
>>> It's not as messy as you would think, I had to do it twice, before
>>> finally buying a new radiator. One thing I left out in my instructions,
>>> is to remove the lower front cowling (different from the radiator
>>> cowling), but you probably figured that out to get to the drain.
>>>
>>> Good Luck!!!
>>> JW[/color]
>>
>> NAPA usually stocks the Modine. Keep the receipts because they have a
>> lifetime warranty. I'm on my 4th radiator (the second free Modine). I've
>> been told by a Toyota tech and a radiator repair shop that the original
>> Toyota radiators fail around the filler neck because of stress issues.
>> Also the radiators, if not properly grounded, will fail due to
>> electrolysis.[/color]
>
>That's the name I was trying to remember. My radiator was failing all over
>the top cap, mainly around the ridges, and the neck also. I've had it for 5
>years now and no problems since I replaced it. Knock on wood!!!
>
>[/color]

No Problem glad I could help, just remember to keep the receipt like Andy
said, just in case. I just noticed that my 2001 Land Cruiser had red
coolant. I use Redline coolant in my other cars. I don't need Anti-Freeze
in So Cal, it never gets cold enough to freeze the coolant.

"Bill" <canspam@spam.net> wrote in message
news:nd2va2drjccvn8fsh5v1ee7je0fmjkasma@4ax.com...[color=blue]
> I called Napa and they carry the Modine, whcih I plan to buy today.
> I'll also have to pick up some red coolant today. I'm pretty pleased
> with the OEM parts reliability in this Toyota. I've got 189,000
> miles on it so far, and have tried to keep up on scheduled
> maintenance.
>
> Thanks for all your help, JW.
>
> Bill
>
>
> On Fri, 07 Jul 2006 09:35:41 GMT, "Joseph Wind" <jpg@gif.com.invalid>
> wrote:
>[color=green]
>>
>>"AndyK." <krapchaa@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>>news:k4grg.4007$IF2.1420@bignews7.bellsouth.net...[color=darkred]
>>>
>>> "Joseph Wind" <jpg@gif.com.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:LVbrg.3774$Og3.1749@trnddc06...
>>>> $137 sounds like a good price. I paid about the same at NAPA auto
>>>> parts.
>>>> I forget the name of the maker but it's a well known after market maker
>>>> of radiators. One thing for sure they are made better the Toyota OEM
>>>> radiator. I would not re-use the coolant. Just put in a bottle of
>>>> Coolant and Water. Some like a 50/50 mix, but this time of the year you
>>>> don't need that until winter. If your concerned about the environment,
>>>> dump the coolant at you local mechanic. Whatever you do, don't dump it
>>>> on the grass, it will leave a brown spot that will take a long while to
>>>> grow back.
>>>>
>>>> It's not as messy as you would think, I had to do it twice, before
>>>> finally buying a new radiator. One thing I left out in my
>>>> instructions,
>>>> is to remove the lower front cowling (different from the radiator
>>>> cowling), but you probably figured that out to get to the drain.
>>>>
>>>> Good Luck!!!
>>>> JW
>>>
>>> NAPA usually stocks the Modine. Keep the receipts because they have a
>>> lifetime warranty. I'm on my 4th radiator (the second free Modine). I've
>>> been told by a Toyota tech and a radiator repair shop that the original
>>> Toyota radiators fail around the filler neck because of stress issues.
>>> Also the radiators, if not properly grounded, will fail due to
>>> electrolysis.[/color]
>>
>>That's the name I was trying to remember. My radiator was failing all
>>over
>>the top cap, mainly around the ridges, and the neck also. I've had it for
>>5
>>years now and no problems since I replaced it. Knock on wood!!!
>>
>>[/color][/color]

"Joseph Wind" <jpg@gif.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:xaGsg.7776$Ep.7306@trnddc08...[color=blue]
> No Problem glad I could help, just remember to keep the receipt like Andy
> said, just in case. I just noticed that my 2001 Land Cruiser had red
> coolant. I use Redline coolant in my other cars. I don't need
> Anti-Freeze in So Cal, it never gets cold enough to freeze the coolant.
>[/color]


This seems like a good time to ask if recommended/regular coolant flushes
will prevent or delay this type of failure?

180k seems like a reasonable time to me for replacement. Lazy pig that I am,
over the years I've lost a radiator in a '79 Celica (110k), '90 Subaru
(100k), etc.

I'd guessed this was because I didn't have the system flushed per schedule.

What's a natural death and longevity for the newer radiators with perfect
service? ( a guesstimate is fine)

Just wondering....

Good question, It all depends on what you put in it. Plain Tap water is a
not recommended, especially if you live in hard water areas, Coolant does
help. But the best is distilled water and water pump lube, so I'm told by an
old radiator guy. Wetter Water is another highly recommended additive.

"S.Lewis" <stew1960@mail.com> wrote in message
news:j%Msg.39276$gv2.38233@bignews3.bellsouth.net...[color=blue]
>
> "Joseph Wind" <jpg@gif.com.invalid> wrote in message
> news:xaGsg.7776$Ep.7306@trnddc08...[color=green]
>> No Problem glad I could help, just remember to keep the receipt like Andy
>> said, just in case. I just noticed that my 2001 Land Cruiser had red
>> coolant. I use Redline coolant in my other cars. I don't need
>> Anti-Freeze in So Cal, it never gets cold enough to freeze the coolant.
>>[/color]
>
>
> This seems like a good time to ask if recommended/regular coolant flushes
> will prevent or delay this type of failure?
>
> 180k seems like a reasonable time to me for replacement. Lazy pig that I
> am, over the years I've lost a radiator in a '79 Celica (110k), '90
> Subaru (100k), etc.
>
> I'd guessed this was because I didn't have the system flushed per
> schedule.
>
> What's a natural death and longevity for the newer radiators with perfect
> service? ( a guesstimate is fine)
>
> Just wondering....
>
>
>
>[/color]

Bill wrote:[color=blue]
> Recently, while checking the oil and fluids on my '94 4Runner (V6), I
> noticed a few drops of coolant had seeped out the top of the radiator.
> I wiped off the coolant, and noticed that the black metal was now
> brass looking, like the coolant had removed the paint. I had seen
> this a few weeks ago, but did not connect that it was coolant. What
> really cinched it was the fact that I have red Toyota coolant in it
> now.
>[/color]

Pay attention to how your engine runs and check the water level
religiously and check the oil pan for signs of water after you replace
you radiator. The symptoms that you are describing is what happened to
my 92 V-6 when the head gasket leaked. The water level in the radiator
slowly decreased exposing the top of the radiator on the inside. Tiny
pin holes formed -mainly around the filler. I thought these were the
source of the dropping coolant level, so I just had the leaks welded,
and kept driving it. The coolant level still dropped, though. I took it
in and found that the head(s) were leaking. The dealer tested the oil
and found water in it, and then found the leaking gasket.

The 1989-1995 V-6 had a bad head gasket design. They replaced them up
to 100k on warranty and did mine for free at 110k. The only drawback is
that they replaced them with the exact same gasket design as far as I
know. I found this out when one of the gaskets blew out at 190k and
cracked a spark plug in two. It costs me some $$$ the second time.

What you had was co-current problem, head gasket and radiator. My second
head gasket blew at 180K miles. I replaced the radiator after cracks
appears in different areas after soldering the first ones. That was 5 years
ago.

BTW After the second gasket blew, my mechanic recommended I have the engine
rebuilt since half of the parts were out and my cylinder walls were scored.
New mains, connecting rods, rings, pistons, oil pump, water pump, gaskets
and seals. No more leaks, knock on wood.

"crashq" <crashq@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:1152804379.673244.204480@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
>
> Pay attention to how your engine runs and check the water level
> religiously and check the oil pan for signs of water after you replace
> you radiator. The symptoms that you are describing is what happened to
> my 92 V-6 when the head gasket leaked. The water level in the radiator
> slowly decreased exposing the top of the radiator on the inside. Tiny
> pin holes formed -mainly around the filler. I thought these were the
> source of the dropping coolant level, so I just had the leaks welded,
> and kept driving it. The coolant level still dropped, though. I took it
> in and found that the head(s) were leaking. The dealer tested the oil
> and found water in it, and then found the leaking gasket.
>
> The 1989-1995 V-6 had a bad head gasket design. They replaced them up
> to 100k on warranty and did mine for free at 110k. The only drawback is
> that they replaced them with the exact same gasket design as far as I
> know. I found this out when one of the gaskets blew out at 190k and
> cracked a spark plug in two. It costs me some $$$ the second time.
>[/color]