Synthetic in new Toy -- or not?

I have a new '06 Rav4 nearing an oil change. I've used Synthetic in my
other 2 cars since they were new, but Toyota recommends one NOT use
Synthetic oil.

Is it because (a) they want to support the local Toyota dealership garages
and simply recommend one NOT use it so we take our vehicle to their garage
and use their crappy oil OR (b) is there a real mechanical reason they
recommend against using synthetic oil? The mechanics at the garage have a
gag order and won't discuss it.

Thanks!
TW

TW wrote:[color=blue]
> I have a new '06 Rav4 nearing an oil change. I've used Synthetic in my
> other 2 cars since they were new, but Toyota recommends one NOT use
> Synthetic oil.
>
> Is it because (a) they want to support the local Toyota dealership garages
> and simply recommend one NOT use it so we take our vehicle to their garage
> and use their crappy oil OR (b) is there a real mechanical reason they
> recommend against using synthetic oil? The mechanics at the garage have a
> gag order and won't discuss it.
>
> Thanks!
> TW
>
>
>[/color]
Use ANY oil that meets the specs in your owner's manual, synthetic
or not.

Why use synthetic unless you operate in either extreme cold or
extreme heat? It does offer a very minor fuel savings, and may
offer added engine life, but those are minor and hard to quantify.


Ken

Toyota in Puyallup, WA. State is working on having everyone change over to
Syndic oil. This is a very big dealership also, by the way.
I own a 2006 4Runner Limited and on there advice changed over to Synthetic
oil this last change.
Hope this helps.

Synthetics Oil GM Engineer's Opinion,

[url]http://www.vv.corvair.org/pipermail/virtualvairs/2005-July/028037.html[/url]


TW wrote:[color=blue]
> I have a new '06 Rav4 nearing an oil change. I've used Synthetic in my
> other 2 cars since they were new, but Toyota recommends one NOT use
> Synthetic oil.
>
> Is it because (a) they want to support the local Toyota dealership garages
> and simply recommend one NOT use it so we take our vehicle to their garage
> and use their crappy oil OR (b) is there a real mechanical reason they
> recommend against using synthetic oil? The mechanics at the garage have a
> gag order and won't discuss it.
>
> Thanks!
> TW[/color]

"TW" <tw@aol.com> wrote in message news:5U5Vg.6828$vC3.5608@dukeread02...[color=blue]
>I have a new '06 Rav4 nearing an oil change. I've used Synthetic in my
>other 2 cars since they were new, but Toyota recommends one NOT use
>Synthetic oil.
>
> Is it because (a) they want to support the local Toyota dealership garages
> and simply recommend one NOT use it so we take our vehicle to their garage
> and use their crappy oil OR (b) is there a real mechanical reason they
> recommend against using synthetic oil? The mechanics at the garage have a
> gag order and won't discuss it.
>
> Thanks!
> TW[/color]

TW,

I've heard anecdotal evidence and seen pictures of torn down engines that
indicate synthetic oils used in the first few thousand miles will keep the
piston rings from seating into the cylinder walls properly.

Modern dino juice is pretty darned good and as long as you use something
rated for your engine and change it regularly, the difference between
ordinary oil and synthetic oil is probably moot. For a number of reasons
it's ill advised to use synthetic then try to save money by extending the
time between oil changes beyond the recommended intervals.

That said, I ran ordinary oil in my 95 Tacoma for the first 10K, then
switched to Mobil 1. I now have around 180K miles and the compression is
near new specifications. I've also paid 3 to 4 times what I'd have paid for
dino juice at each oil change. Would I have gotten the same mileage on dino
juice? I really don't know. Again, this is anecdotal evidence only with no
recognized statistical validity.

I might add that I'm now using Mobil 1 in my 87 Corolla with 135K miles,
purchased second hand last Spring. I'm not enjoying the hallucination that
it will do anything magical for that engine, which unlike the Tacoma burns
about a quart every two weeks. I just happen to have it around. For those
naysayers who think that you shouldn't switch to synthetic on an old engine,
it's been working fine with no leaks.
--
Mike Harris
Austin TX

On Thu, 05 Oct 2006 05:45:02 -0700, Ken Shelton
<shelton@cablespeed.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>Use ANY oil that meets the specs in your owner's manual, synthetic
>or not.
>
>Why use synthetic unless you operate in either extreme cold or
>extreme heat? It does offer a very minor fuel savings, and may
>offer added engine life, but those are minor and hard to quantify.[/color]


The reason Toyota and others are sometimes against SYN oil is because
SYN oil makers tend to promote longer oil change intervals which is
not good because it allows contaminates to build up in oil. If you use
quality oil and change it regularly (every 3K or so) the truck will
fall apart before engine wears out. List poster said above if you live
in a very cold climate where it is 20 below and colder a lot SYN oil
does have a edge and whiel it is ture is can take more heat than
regular oil, the seals and such in engine cannot so nothing is really
gained in that aspect.
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com

I can only agree with you 50% at this moment.
Out of three cars I own right now--two accord V6 (one 2005, one 2006), one
Toy 04 Sequoia.
I have used syn(all Mobile 1) on my Sequoia several times with no obvious
improvement.
First time used Mobile 1 syn on my 05 Acord last month. WOW! BIG
difference, the mpg improves about 2-3 mpg, car drives smoothly and
quieter.(not extreme cold or hot)
I will put mobile 1 next month my the 06 accord, will update to this NG
again.
Still trying to figure out what type of car will benefit more...

TW wrote:[color=blue]
> I have a new '06 Rav4 nearing an oil change. I've used Synthetic in my
> other 2 cars since they were new, but Toyota recommends one NOT use
> Synthetic oil.
>
> Is it because (a) they want to support the local Toyota dealership garages
> and simply recommend one NOT use it so we take our vehicle to their garage
> and use their crappy oil OR (b) is there a real mechanical reason they
> recommend against using synthetic oil? The mechanics at the garage have a
> gag order and won't discuss it.
>
> Thanks!
> TW
>
>
>[/color]
Lots of misinformation about synthetic oil in the postings above and
the link to the motorcycle oil info.

The ONLY way to tell when to change oil is by having a testing lab
analyze the oil. This costs about $20. It obviously isn't worth
the money to do this every time, but can be done a few times to show
a trend. Here is a report of a Chev engine with Mobil 1 oil that
was tested every 1000 miles, 4 ounces of added every 1000 miles to
make up for the oil removed for the tests, the filter changed at
12,000 and new oil added to fill the new filter, and the MObil 1 oil
finally dumped at 18,000 miles.
[url]http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/mobil1.html[/url]

Oil rarely has to be changed because of contamination.
[url]http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/postlist.php?Cat=0&Board=UBB3[/url]

More often it needs to be changed because of oxidation or because
the additives have become depleted. The better oils use higher cost
additives with longer lives. Sulfur is not a concern...both
gasoline and diesel fuel have sulfur levels so low that now the
sulfur in oil, the "thio" in certain additive components, is being
lowered.


Ken

there is NO reason you can not use a synthetic in your rav4.
just use the same grade of oil the owners book says. The
best oil on the market by far is Ams/Oil. Have used it since
it came on the marked and I am also a dealer.
"Ken Shelton" <shelton@cablespeed.com> wrote in message
news:eL2dnewJ5cjg4bvYnZ2dnUVZ_v6dnZ2d@cablespeedwa.com...
TW wrote:[color=blue]
> I have a new '06 Rav4 nearing an oil change. I've used[/color]
Synthetic in my[color=blue]
> other 2 cars since they were new, but Toyota recommends[/color]
one NOT use[color=blue]
> Synthetic oil.
>
> Is it because (a) they want to support the local Toyota[/color]
dealership garages[color=blue]
> and simply recommend one NOT use it so we take our vehicle[/color]
to their garage[color=blue]
> and use their crappy oil OR (b) is there a real mechanical[/color]
reason they[color=blue]
> recommend against using synthetic oil? The mechanics at[/color]
the garage have a[color=blue]
> gag order and won't discuss it.
>
> Thanks!
> TW
>
>
>[/color]
Lots of misinformation about synthetic oil in the postings
above and
the link to the motorcycle oil info.

The ONLY way to tell when to change oil is by having a
testing lab
analyze the oil. This costs about $20. It obviously isn't
worth
the money to do this every time, but can be done a few times
to show
a trend. Here is a report of a Chev engine with Mobil 1 oil
that
was tested every 1000 miles, 4 ounces of added every 1000
miles to
make up for the oil removed for the tests, the filter
changed at
12,000 and new oil added to fill the new filter, and the
MObil 1 oil
finally dumped at 18,000 miles.
[url]http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/mobil1.html[/url]

Oil rarely has to be changed because of contamination.
[url]http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/postlist.php?Cat=0&Bo[/url]
ard=UBB3

More often it needs to be changed because of oxidation or
because
the additives have become depleted. The better oils use
higher cost
additives with longer lives. Sulfur is not a concern...both
gasoline and diesel fuel have sulfur levels so low that now
the
sulfur in oil, the "thio" in certain additive components, is
being
lowered.


Ken



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"Boots Crofoot" <boots@dcwis.com> wrote in message
news:1160265130_18193@sp6iad.superfeed.net...[color=blue]
> there is NO reason you can not use a synthetic in your rav4.
> just use the same grade of oil the owners book says. The
> best oil on the market by far is Ams/Oil. Have used it since
> it came on the marked and I am also a dealer.[/color]

Go figure
[color=blue]
> "Ken Shelton" <shelton@cablespeed.com> wrote in message
> news:eL2dnewJ5cjg4bvYnZ2dnUVZ_v6dnZ2d@cablespeedwa.com...
> TW wrote:[color=green]
>> I have a new '06 Rav4 nearing an oil change. I've used[/color]
> Synthetic in my[color=green]
>> other 2 cars since they were new, but Toyota recommends[/color]
> one NOT use[color=green]
>> Synthetic oil.
>>
>> Is it because (a) they want to support the local Toyota[/color]
> dealership garages[color=green]
>> and simply recommend one NOT use it so we take our vehicle[/color]
> to their garage[color=green]
>> and use their crappy oil OR (b) is there a real mechanical[/color]
> reason they[color=green]
>> recommend against using synthetic oil? The mechanics at[/color]
> the garage have a[color=green]
>> gag order and won't discuss it.
>>
>> Thanks!
>> TW
>>
>>
>>[/color]
> Lots of misinformation about synthetic oil in the postings
> above and
> the link to the motorcycle oil info.
>
> The ONLY way to tell when to change oil is by having a
> testing lab
> analyze the oil. This costs about $20. It obviously isn't
> worth
> the money to do this every time, but can be done a few times
> to show
> a trend. Here is a report of a Chev engine with Mobil 1 oil
> that
> was tested every 1000 miles, 4 ounces of added every 1000
> miles to
> make up for the oil removed for the tests, the filter
> changed at
> 12,000 and new oil added to fill the new filter, and the
> MObil 1 oil
> finally dumped at 18,000 miles.
> [url]http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/mobil1.html[/url]
>
> Oil rarely has to be changed because of contamination.
> [url]http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/postlist.php?Cat=0&Bo[/url]
> ard=UBB3
>
> More often it needs to be changed because of oxidation or
> because
> the additives have become depleted. The better oils use
> higher cost
> additives with longer lives. Sulfur is not a concern...both
> gasoline and diesel fuel have sulfur levels so low that now
> the
> sulfur in oil, the "thio" in certain additive components, is
> being
> lowered.
>
>
> Ken
>
>
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet
> News==----
> [url]http://www.newsfeeds.com[/url] The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+
> Newsgroups
> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
> =----[/color]

TW wrote:[color=blue]
> I have a new '06 Rav4 nearing an oil change. I've used Synthetic in my
> other 2 cars since they were new, but Toyota recommends one NOT use
> Synthetic oil.
> Is it because (a) they want to support the local Toyota dealership garages
> and simply recommend one NOT use it so we take our vehicle to their garage
> and use their crappy oil OR (b) is there a real mechanical reason they
> recommend against using synthetic oil? The mechanics at the garage have a
> gag order and won't discuss it.
> Thanks!
> TW[/color]

We have a RAV4 and our Toyota dealer is totally on side with us using
my Amsoil which I bring along for the service. Our other car is a GM
make and they also are in agreement with using superior motor lubricant.