2007 Toyota Prerunner 5 speed manual shift--At what Point is the Clutch pedal engage the clutch?

I just bought a new PreRunner. It's a great little truck but, my
question is; At what point in the clutch pedals upper-most to
lower-most range of movement should one expect for the clutch to
actually engage and begin to move the truck? ( From first gear)
I've been driving a toyota truck and a couple of toyota sedans (all
stick shifts) for the better part of 20 years. I work as a service
tech at a local Caddi dealership so my job requires and allows me to
drive many different makes of manual transmission vehicles.
To date, none of the manual stick/shift vehicles that I've driven even
came close to shifting the way this particlular PreRunner shifts.
Generally speaking, most of the vehicles I've driven had a clutch that
would engage somewhere below the midway point of the clutch pedal's
fully depressed position and its fully released position. The clutch
pedal on this 07 PreRunner has to be nearly all the way to the fully
released position before first gear will engage and begin to move the
truck. Once I get past first gear and have some momentum going all the
other gears appear to be "normal."
Having worked around dealeship Service Writers for some time now, and
given the fact that this is a new vehicle, I was 99 percent sure that
I'd get the classic "Self Proclaimed Expert's" explanation as to why
this PreRunner shifts the way it does when I took it in to get it
checked out.
I say this with complete confidence because I just came from the
dealership where I bought this truck. I had an appointment to have it
test driven with me along for the ride; just to be sure we were all on
the same page. Turned out that their "Master Mechanic" had gone home
for the day so one of their Service Writers did the honors instead.
I was expecting to ride with a "Master Tech" but, I got a ride with a
"BS Master" instead. "Oh, well, these trucks have hydrolic clutches.
They don't shift like other clutches. They have real tight tolerances"
Completely ignoring the fact that the clutch pedal had to be nearly all
the way up in order to engage first gear.
I'm afraid I'm starting to ramble on now so I'll get back to my
original question. I know that all vehicles do not drive and handle
identically but, at what point in its range of movement will the clutch
pedal generally be when it actually engages the clutch and begins to
move the vehicle?
Despite the fact that this is a brand new vehicle, what might be
causing this symptom if it is in fact being caused by something that's
wrong with the clutch, clutch pedal, master cylinder or slave cylinder?
The fact that it may just be me being used to driving vehicle with
different feeling clutch pedals has not escaped me. It could just be
me but, I don't think so.
I'm going back on Saturday to have a test drive with their "Master
Mechanic." In the event that their "Master Mechanic" turns out not to
be the "Master" they said he was, Perhaps someone out there can help or
make some insightful suggestions.
I'm not an expert in transmissions. I work in the Custom shop. The
extent of my transmisson knowledge comes from a life time of driving
stick shifts. Nothing more, nothing less. I'm not asking for witty or
crude remarks; I just need a little wisdom here.
Thanks in advance for your courteous reply.

"prerunner" <searchNdestroy@cox.net> wrote in message
news:1165545935.667516.197510@16g2000cwy.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
>I just bought a new PreRunner. It's a great little truck but, my
> question is; At what point in the clutch pedals upper-most to
> lower-most range of movement should one expect for the clutch to
> actually engage and begin to move the truck? ( From first gear)
> I've been driving a toyota truck and a couple of toyota sedans (all
> stick shifts) for the better part of 20 years. I work as a service
> tech at a local Caddi dealership so my job requires and allows me to
> drive many different makes of manual transmission vehicles.
> To date, none of the manual stick/shift vehicles that I've driven even
> came close to shifting the way this particlular PreRunner shifts.
> Generally speaking, most of the vehicles I've driven had a clutch that
> would engage somewhere below the midway point of the clutch pedal's
> fully depressed position and its fully released position. The clutch
> pedal on this 07 PreRunner has to be nearly all the way to the fully
> released position before first gear will engage and begin to move the
> truck. Once I get past first gear and have some momentum going all the
> other gears appear to be "normal."
> Having worked around dealeship Service Writers for some time now, and
> given the fact that this is a new vehicle, I was 99 percent sure that
> I'd get the classic "Self Proclaimed Expert's" explanation as to why
> this PreRunner shifts the way it does when I took it in to get it
> checked out.
> I say this with complete confidence because I just came from the
> dealership where I bought this truck. I had an appointment to have it
> test driven with me along for the ride; just to be sure we were all on
> the same page. Turned out that their "Master Mechanic" had gone home
> for the day so one of their Service Writers did the honors instead.
> I was expecting to ride with a "Master Tech" but, I got a ride with a
> "BS Master" instead. "Oh, well, these trucks have hydrolic clutches.
> They don't shift like other clutches. They have real tight tolerances"
> Completely ignoring the fact that the clutch pedal had to be nearly all
> the way up in order to engage first gear.
> I'm afraid I'm starting to ramble on now so I'll get back to my
> original question. I know that all vehicles do not drive and handle
> identically but, at what point in its range of movement will the clutch
> pedal generally be when it actually engages the clutch and begins to
> move the vehicle?
> Despite the fact that this is a brand new vehicle, what might be
> causing this symptom if it is in fact being caused by something that's
> wrong with the clutch, clutch pedal, master cylinder or slave cylinder?
> The fact that it may just be me being used to driving vehicle with
> different feeling clutch pedals has not escaped me. It could just be
> me but, I don't think so.
> I'm going back on Saturday to have a test drive with their "Master
> Mechanic." In the event that their "Master Mechanic" turns out not to
> be the "Master" they said he was, Perhaps someone out there can help or
> make some insightful suggestions.
> I'm not an expert in transmissions. I work in the Custom shop. The
> extent of my transmisson knowledge comes from a life time of driving
> stick shifts. Nothing more, nothing less. I'm not asking for witty or
> crude remarks; I just need a little wisdom here.
> Thanks in advance for your courteous reply.
>[/color]
In a new vehicle, the clutch adjustment should be really tight then loosen
up a little as it wears in. I learned to drive in a standard trans VW in the
hills of San Franciscoin 1972. I have driven manual trans ever since. My
personal preferance is for the clutch to start to engage about an inch off
the floor. It is normally a simple adjustment even with a hydraulic clutch.
I would call BS on their "master mechanic", and tell him to FIX IT. (Don't
tell me what you can't do, tell me what you CAN do)

"prerunner" <searchNdestroy@cox.net> wrote in message
news:1165545935.667516.197510@16g2000cwy.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
>I just bought a new PreRunner. It's a great little truck but, my
> question is; At what point in the clutch pedals upper-most to
> lower-most range of movement should one expect for the clutch to
> actually engage and begin to move the truck? ( From first gear)
> I've been driving a toyota truck and a couple of toyota sedans (all
> stick shifts) for the better part of 20 years. I work as a service
> tech at a local Caddi dealership so my job requires and allows me to
> drive many different makes of manual transmission vehicles.
> To date, none of the manual stick/shift vehicles that I've driven even
> came close to shifting the way this particlular PreRunner shifts.
> Generally speaking, most of the vehicles I've driven had a clutch that
> would engage somewhere below the midway point of the clutch pedal's
> fully depressed position and its fully released position. The clutch
> pedal on this 07 PreRunner has to be nearly all the way to the fully
> released position before first gear will engage and begin to move the
> truck. Once I get past first gear and have some momentum going all the
> other gears appear to be "normal."
> Having worked around dealeship Service Writers for some time now, and
> given the fact that this is a new vehicle, I was 99 percent sure that
> I'd get the classic "Self Proclaimed Expert's" explanation as to why
> this PreRunner shifts the way it does when I took it in to get it
> checked out.
> I say this with complete confidence because I just came from the
> dealership where I bought this truck. I had an appointment to have it
> test driven with me along for the ride; just to be sure we were all on
> the same page. Turned out that their "Master Mechanic" had gone home
> for the day so one of their Service Writers did the honors instead.
> I was expecting to ride with a "Master Tech" but, I got a ride with a
> "BS Master" instead. "Oh, well, these trucks have hydrolic clutches.
> They don't shift like other clutches. They have real tight tolerances"
> Completely ignoring the fact that the clutch pedal had to be nearly all
> the way up in order to engage first gear.
> I'm afraid I'm starting to ramble on now so I'll get back to my
> original question. I know that all vehicles do not drive and handle
> identically but, at what point in its range of movement will the clutch
> pedal generally be when it actually engages the clutch and begins to
> move the vehicle?
> Despite the fact that this is a brand new vehicle, what might be
> causing this symptom if it is in fact being caused by something that's
> wrong with the clutch, clutch pedal, master cylinder or slave cylinder?
> The fact that it may just be me being used to driving vehicle with
> different feeling clutch pedals has not escaped me. It could just be
> me but, I don't think so.
> I'm going back on Saturday to have a test drive with their "Master
> Mechanic." In the event that their "Master Mechanic" turns out not to
> be the "Master" they said he was, Perhaps someone out there can help or
> make some insightful suggestions.
> I'm not an expert in transmissions. I work in the Custom shop. The
> extent of my transmisson knowledge comes from a life time of driving
> stick shifts. Nothing more, nothing less. I'm not asking for witty or
> crude remarks; I just need a little wisdom here.
> Thanks in advance for your courteous reply.
>[/color]


I agree with your instinct, the clutch should start to grab at about the mid
point of the pedal travel. It requires an adjustment.

Now, your truck has hydraulic linkage wheras the older vehicles had either a
cable or shafts and levers. The latter two are easily adjusted because of
the mechanical nature of their operation. The hydraulic linkage should have
an adjustment screw on it as well, but _should_ is the operative word here.

[color=blue]
> I agree with your instinct, the clutch should start to grab at about the mid
> point of the pedal travel. It requires an adjustment.
>
> Now, your truck has hydraulic linkage wheras the older vehicles had either a
> cable or shafts and levers. The latter two are easily adjusted because of
> the mechanical nature of their operation. The hydraulic linkage should have
> an adjustment screw on it as well, but _should_ is the operative word here.[/color]

Greetings Jeff Strickland:

I tend to agree with your assesment of the word "Should" in regard
to the adjustment of my hyfraulic linkage. Hopefully I'll find out
tomorrow what- if anything- will be done about it.

Thanks for your input

"prerunner" <searchNdestroy@cox.net> wrote in message
news:1165628551.718880.62220@80g2000cwy.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
>
>[color=green]
>> I agree with your instinct, the clutch should start to grab at about the
>> mid
>> point of the pedal travel. It requires an adjustment.
>>
>> Now, your truck has hydraulic linkage wheras the older vehicles had
>> either a
>> cable or shafts and levers. The latter two are easily adjusted because of
>> the mechanical nature of their operation. The hydraulic linkage should
>> have
>> an adjustment screw on it as well, but _should_ is the operative word
>> here.[/color]
>
> Greetings Jeff Strickland:
>
> I tend to agree with your assesment of the word "Should" in regard
> to the adjustment of my hyfraulic linkage. Hopefully I'll find out
> tomorrow what- if anything- will be done about it.
>[/color]

I can only recall one vehicle that I've owned that had a hydraulic clutch
AND needed to be adjusted (where "needed" was an objective assessment on my
part caused by what I felt was improper pedal position) and I remember the
slave cylinder being mounted on slotted screw holes, and I adjusted the
position of the cylinder to affect repositioning of the Engagement Point for
the clutch.

It wasn't difficult to figure out what to do ... (I'm not suggesting that
YOU should do it, but I do suggest that you could do it, I think, if the
adjustment actually exists)

Agree with the previous comments and your instinct that it should not
be engaging so high in the pedal travel. I just bought a 1999 Nissan
that had no free play in the clutch and even in that condition it
engaged close to the floor. Adjusting it just made it better. Let me
suggest that since you have a bit of an "in" with the dealer that you
ask to be allowed to drive another truck of the exact same
model/engine/trans. If it engages differently, you know that something
is different about yours. That should also blunt the standard dealer
"they're all like that" BS. Good luck. Al

Jeff Strickland wrote:[color=blue]
> "prerunner" <searchNdestroy@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:1165628551.718880.62220@80g2000cwy.googlegroups.com...[color=green]
> >
> >[color=darkred]
> >> I agree with your instinct, the clutch should start to grab at about the
> >> mid
> >> point of the pedal travel. It requires an adjustment.
> >>
> >> Now, your truck has hydraulic linkage wheras the older vehicles had
> >> either a
> >> cable or shafts and levers. The latter two are easily adjusted because of
> >> the mechanical nature of their operation. The hydraulic linkage should
> >> have
> >> an adjustment screw on it as well, but _should_ is the operative word
> >> here.[/color]
> >
> > Greetings Jeff Strickland:
> >
> > I tend to agree with your assesment of the word "Should" in regard
> > to the adjustment of my hyfraulic linkage. Hopefully I'll find out
> > tomorrow what- if anything- will be done about it.
> >[/color]
>
> I can only recall one vehicle that I've owned that had a hydraulic clutch
> AND needed to be adjusted (where "needed" was an objective assessment on my
> part caused by what I felt was improper pedal position) and I remember the
> slave cylinder being mounted on slotted screw holes, and I adjusted the
> position of the cylinder to affect repositioning of the Engagement Point for
> the clutch.
>
> It wasn't difficult to figure out what to do ... (I'm not suggesting that
> YOU should do it, but I do suggest that you could do it, I think, if the
> adjustment actually exists)[/color]