Too late to start 5 wheel rotation?

'99 Tacoma 4x2 Xtracab w/campershell

Just 26k miles on it. I had been doing the dealer maintenance until
recently and had not realized that they were doing a 4 wheel rotation
instead of the 5 wheel version which would bring the spare into
rotation.

So I now have a spare with 0 miles and 4 others with 26k miles. Could I
safely start a 5 wheel rotation at this late date?

--
Doug Herr
doug*at*wombatz*dot*com

Doug Herr wrote:[color=blue]
> '99 Tacoma 4x2 Xtracab w/campershell
>
> Just 26k miles on it. I had been doing the dealer maintenance until
> recently and had not realized that they were doing a 4 wheel rotation
> instead of the 5 wheel version which would bring the spare into
> rotation.
>
> So I now have a spare with 0 miles and 4 others with 26k miles. Could I
> safely start a 5 wheel rotation at this late date?[/color]

For what it's worth, I've never done the five-tire rotation. In fact,
the spare tire on my '88 pickup was only on the ground once, and that
was to put on while I had a tire repaired. I didn't even drive it, just
wanted something to put on the ground.

The thing is 17 years old, but still looks good and holds air. I suppose
I should replace it one of these days, for safety reasons. After this
many years, although it's been under the bed, out of the sun, and in
California most of the time (no salt and other stuff), it probably has
dry rot that will show up after I install it on a dark and stormy night
in the middle of nowhere...
--
Tom - Vista, CA

On Sun, 02 Oct 2005 09:30:04 -0700, Doug Herr <doug@wombatz.invalid>
wrote:
[color=blue]
>
>'99 Tacoma 4x2 Xtracab w/campershell
>
>Just 26k miles on it. I had been doing the dealer maintenance until
>recently and had not realized that they were doing a 4 wheel rotation
>instead of the 5 wheel version which would bring the spare into
>rotation.
>
>So I now have a spare with 0 miles and 4 others with 26k miles. Could I
>safely start a 5 wheel rotation at this late date?[/color]

I'd say yes, put it on the front where it will see more wear. And
'rotate' side to side so it stays out there for a while.

Sometimes they don't put the spare in the rotation because the rims
don't match, meaning you have to tell them to swap that tire off the
plain steel rim and out into the rotation. Other shops employ just
plain lazy people who can't be bothered to drop the spare and crank
another tire into the mount, they do a 4-wheel rotation unless you
insist.

--<< Bruce >>--
--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

My Tacoma Prerunner has a steel spare wheel whilt the rest of the wheels
are factory alloy, so my spare will never see service unless needed.
Scott

"TOM" <tomjc@catz.org> wrote in message
news:epU%e.23414$GQ4.2663@fed1read05...
For what it's worth, I've never done the five-tire rotation. In fact,[color=blue]
> the spare tire on my '88 pickup was only on the ground once, and that was
> to put on while I had a tire repaired. I didn't even drive it, just wanted
> something to put on the ground.
>
> The thing is 17 years old, but still looks good and holds air. I suppose I
> should replace it one of these days, for safety reasons. After this many
> years, although it's been under the bed, out of the sun, and in California
> most of the time (no salt and other stuff), it probably has dry rot that
> will show up after I install it on a dark and stormy night in the middle
> of nowhere...
> --
> Tom - Vista, CA[/color]

I've recently read a report that vehicle tyres are supposed to be replaced
at the 7 year mark regardless of how many Km's or wear you have. (obviously
a report from tyre companies) but this has been reported and backed up from
motoring organisations which are supposed to be independent and impartial.

Hell, the spare tyre in my 92 Mazda hasn't even been on the ground. Its a
brand new Bridgestone that's not actually made anymore. Would I use it, damn
straight, maybe not on the front (Front wheel drive car) but its gunna be
fine on the rears.

I do think that your 17 year old tyre may just have past its used by date
Tom, for what its worth you may as well swap that one for a newie, unless
you want to get some use out if while off roading where a puncture al low
speeds may not be detrimental to your safety. (maybe)

And Doug, 5 wheel rotation has also been reported as not that good as when a
Tyre with steel belts is used the belts tend to organise themselves in a
certain direction. The local tyre guys say that tyres should NEVER be
swapped side to side these days only front to back. So depending on where
your spares been before Doug it may alter its characteristics.


Scotty

On Sun, 02 Oct 2005 19:29:54 -0400, "zonie" <sjemoomaw@nospam> wrote:
[color=blue]
>My Tacoma Prerunner has a steel spare wheel whilt the rest of the wheels
>are factory alloy, so my spare will never see service unless needed.
>Scott[/color]

Two solutions: One, have the tire shop swap the spare tire onto an
alloy rim, and the worst worn one on as the new spare, so it gets some
mileage.

Or go to a wrecking yard and find a matching used factory alloy rim
that you can mount your spare on and it can be in the rotation.

They should all come on a matching fifth rim, but that's another
place to save $10 (wholesale price of the rim when ordered in bulk in
train-car lots) when they build the car. Now it could cost you $50
for a used one, and $300+ for new.

--<< Bruce >>--

--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

On Sun, 02 Oct 2005 22:18:02 +0000, Bruce L. Bergman wrote:
[color=blue]
> I'd say yes, put it on the front where it will see more wear. And
> 'rotate' side to side so it stays out there for a while.[/color]

Thanks to all who replied.

I am leaning toward doing as you say. The main worry was that this
previously unused tire would be different enough in size due to lack of
tread wear, that it would cause a problem. Nobody seems to be worrying
about that point.

I don't have alloy wheels, so that part is not an issue.

Main reason to consider this was to get use out of this tire. Second
reason was that it is easier for me to do tire rotation myself when doing
the 5 wheel type. It takes just one jack/stand moved corner to corner.

--
Doug Herr
doug*at*wombatz*dot*com

Doug Herr wrote:[color=blue]
> '99 Tacoma 4x2 Xtracab w/campershell
>
> Just 26k miles on it. I had been doing the dealer maintenance until
> recently and had not realized that they were doing a 4 wheel rotation
> instead of the 5 wheel version which would bring the spare into
> rotation.
>
> So I now have a spare with 0 miles and 4 others with 26k miles. Could I
> safely start a 5 wheel rotation at this late date?
>[/color]

Go ahead and start the 5-wheel rotation. Maybe keep the "new" tire
on the vehicle and rotate the other four through the spare position
until the wear is equalized.

Not rotating radial tires from side to side is old, old tech, and
hasn't been the recommendation for many years.
[url]http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=43[/url]

If you need a different wheel for the spare, eBay or someone on
tundrasolutions.com may have one at a better price than a wrecking yard.


Ken

"Doug Herr" <doug@wombatz.invalid> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.10.03.14.13.42.578604@wombatz.invalid...[color=blue]
> On Sun, 02 Oct 2005 22:18:02 +0000, Bruce L. Bergman wrote:
>[color=green]
>> I'd say yes, put it on the front where it will see more wear. And
>> 'rotate' side to side so it stays out there for a while.[/color]
>
> Thanks to all who replied.
>
> I am leaning toward doing as you say. The main worry was that this
> previously unused tire would be different enough in size due to lack of
> tread wear, that it would cause a problem. Nobody seems to be worrying
> about that point.
>
> I don't have alloy wheels, so that part is not an issue.
>
> Main reason to consider this was to get use out of this tire. Second
> reason was that it is easier for me to do tire rotation myself when doing
> the 5 wheel type. It takes just one jack/stand moved corner to corner.
>
> --
> Doug Herr
> doug*at*wombatz*dot*com[/color]

Doug, try not move tyres from side to side! Big no no according to tyre
outlets and service centres. Only move tyres front to back on same side. Its
to do with the ply construction and how is biases itself once worn to one
direction, unless you are removing the tyre from the rim and turning it
around on the new one so that it still rotates in the same direction as
before.

Do some google searching or ask online at a tyre manufactureres site.

"Scotty" <scoter1@warmmail.com> wrote in message
news:4341922c$0$14833$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...[color=blue]
>
> "Doug Herr" <doug@wombatz.invalid> wrote in message
> news:pan.2005.10.03.14.13.42.578604@wombatz.invalid...[color=green]
>> On Sun, 02 Oct 2005 22:18:02 +0000, Bruce L. Bergman wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>> I'd say yes, put it on the front where it will see more wear. And
>>> 'rotate' side to side so it stays out there for a while.[/color]
>>
>> Thanks to all who replied.
>>
>> I am leaning toward doing as you say. The main worry was that this
>> previously unused tire would be different enough in size due to lack of
>> tread wear, that it would cause a problem. Nobody seems to be worrying
>> about that point.
>>
>> I don't have alloy wheels, so that part is not an issue.
>>
>> Main reason to consider this was to get use out of this tire. Second
>> reason was that it is easier for me to do tire rotation myself when doing
>> the 5 wheel type. It takes just one jack/stand moved corner to corner.
>>
>> --
>> Doug Herr
>> doug*at*wombatz*dot*com[/color]
>
> Doug, try not move tyres from side to side! Big no no according to tyre
> outlets and service centres. Only move tyres front to back on same side.
> Its to do with the ply construction and how is biases itself once worn to
> one direction, unless you are removing the tyre from the rim and turning
> it around on the new one so that it still rotates in the same direction as
> before.
>
> Do some google searching or ask online at a tyre manufactureres site.
>[/color]

Maybe it's time you reviewed some manufacturer recommendations. For my 2003
Corolla, the Goodyear book says rotate front to back to front ... while the
Firestone book says cross rotate. Depends how the car is equipped.

Personally, I've learned not to rotate tires at all. When they wear out,
replace axle sets. No more carcass separations this way.

"Scotty" <scoter1@warmmail.com> sez:

<snip>[color=blue]
> And Doug, 5 wheel rotation has also been reported as not that good as when[/color]
a[color=blue]
> Tyre with steel belts is used the belts tend to organise themselves in a
> certain direction. The local tyre guys say that tyres should NEVER be
> swapped side to side these days only front to back.<snip>[/color]

That, to use a technical term, is "bullshit" ... that may have applied to
the technology when steel belts were relatively new and/or lower priced
tires, but does not apply to modern high end tires such as Michelin,
Bridgestone, etc.

Think about it, if that were true, then you wouldn't rotate from front to
rear and vice-versa because the steel belts would have would have "oranised"
themselves on whether they were in the braking direction (front) or the
driven direction (rear).

I have always done 5 tire rotation between summer tires and winter tires and
have always put the worst of the lot in the spare position, the least worn
in the driven rear position and the remainder in the front. I get 60-80,000
mi. from good Michelins and 30-40,000 out of my studded snows.

Good rotatin' to ya,
VLJ
--

If you intend on keeping that tire size gooing forward, then why bother with
the 5-tire rotation?




"Doug Herr" <doug@wombatz.invalid> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.10.02.16.30.03.383375@wombatz.invalid...[color=blue]
>
> '99 Tacoma 4x2 Xtracab w/campershell
>
> Just 26k miles on it. I had been doing the dealer maintenance until
> recently and had not realized that they were doing a 4 wheel rotation
> instead of the 5 wheel version which would bring the spare into
> rotation.
>
> So I now have a spare with 0 miles and 4 others with 26k miles. Could I
> safely start a 5 wheel rotation at this late date?
>
> --
> Doug Herr
> doug*at*wombatz*dot*com[/color]

On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 07:55:45 -0700, Jeff Strickland wrote:
[color=blue]
> If you intend on keeping that tire size gooing forward, then why bother
> with the 5-tire rotation?[/color]

I like to do my own maintenance when possible.

With a 4 wheel rotation I need to have two corners jacked up at the same
time. With 5 wheel rotation you just jack a corner at a time.

I also like the idea of using up the tread on all 5 tires and then
replacing them all; instead of having this one tire with good tread but
"old" rubber once it is time to replace the other 4 tires.


--
Doug Herr
doug*at*wombatz*dot*com

"Doug Herr" <doug@wombatz.invalid> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.10.04.23.51.11.495521@wombatz.invalid...[color=blue]
> On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 07:55:45 -0700, Jeff Strickland wrote:
>[color=green]
>> If you intend on keeping that tire size gooing forward, then why bother
>> with the 5-tire rotation?[/color]
>
> I like to do my own maintenance when possible.
>
> With a 4 wheel rotation I need to have two corners jacked up at the same
> time. With 5 wheel rotation you just jack a corner at a time.
>
> I also like the idea of using up the tread on all 5 tires and then
> replacing them all; instead of having this one tire with good tread but
> "old" rubber once it is time to replace the other 4 tires.
>[/color]

That's reasonable, I suppose. I once (not long ago either) had a brand
spanking new spare tire that was 10 years old. It seems that the previous
owner had changed the tires from a 225/55 to a 205/60 because the 205s were
cheaper. The spare was not changed, and because it was an odd size -- not by
much -- it stayed in the trunk except for emergencies. I had to throw it
away, and it stil had hair on it from the mold machine.