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Old 08-14-2006, 04:11 PM   #16 (permalink)
E Brown
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Re: is250 vs. 325i

On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 13:38:17 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
<elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>In article <ebq4g4$v23$1@news.datemas.de>,
> [email]richard@news.vrx.net[/email] (Richard Sexton) wrote:
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>> >I don't know why people say that BMWs are expensive to maintain.[/color]
>>
>> This is the way my father in law explained it to me 30 years ago: "the
>> Germans are quite up front about maintenance costs. The Japanese want you
>> to believe their cars are cheaspre cheap to maintain but in reality they cost
>> about the same".[/color]
>
>Not true.[/color]

According to Edmunds.com, the cost per mile for the 2003 Lexus IS
300 is .60 cents, while a 2003 330i is .63 cents, averaged over 5
years of ownership while driving 15,000 miles/year.
epbrown
--
"Everybody wants a normal life and a cool car;
most people will settle for the car." Chris Titus
2003 BMW 325i Black/Black, 2003 BMW Z4 Black/Black
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Old 08-14-2006, 05:52 PM   #17 (permalink)
Dave Plowman (News)
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Re: German car? no thanks (was Re: is250 vs. 325i)

In article <elmop-E6C5D5.13431614082006@nntp3.usenetserver.com>,
Elmo P. Shagnasty <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:[color=blue]
> Now *try* to find a Honda or Toyota, either low brand or high brand, no
> matter how old, with non-working tail lights. Good luck.[/color]

You're saying the bulbs never blow on Japanese cars? They must be
different Hondas and Toyotas we get in London...

--
*Any connection between your reality and mine is purely coincidental

Dave Plowman [email]dave@davenoise.co.uk[/email] London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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Old 08-14-2006, 06:16 PM   #18 (permalink)
Dori A Schmetterling
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Re: German car? no thanks (was Re: is250 vs. 325i)

"Bollocks" (to 'steal' Dave Plowman's favourite expression.

I have driven Mercs old and new for >20 yrs and find them not unusually
bothersome to run. Maybe I don't know what 'usual' is, but I recall only
complete engine failure on a W123 200 (that was about 1984) at about 2000
miles which was fixed under warranty.

People's experiences with Merc and BMW will, of course, vary but I doubt
that on average it is much worse than with other brands, US J D Power
surveys notwithstanding. Sales of both brands are doing pretty well and
they would not be if there were real problems. Merc suffers from dealership
problems in some countries but at least in Britain this has been recognised
and some measures taken.

What really sorts the wheat from the chaff is age. The paintwork on a
BMW/Merc is as good as new after ten years, and so is the interior if has
been treated with a modicum of respect. And the shapes age pretty
gracefully. I doubt you could say that of most Japanese cars. How many
keen drivers are there of, for example, ten-year old Toyotas. Is Toyota as
proud of its seriously high mileage drivers as Mercedes is?

DAS

For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
---

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
news:elmop-E6C5D5.13431614082006@nntp3.usenetserver.com...[color=blue]
> In article <ebq4g4$v23$1@news.datemas.de>,
> [email]richard@news.vrx.net[/email] (Richard Sexton) wrote:
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>> >I don't know why people say that BMWs are expensive to maintain.[/color]
>>
>> This is the way my father in law explained it to me 30 years ago: "the
>> Germans are quite up front about maintenance costs. The Japanese want you
>> to believe their cars are cheaspre cheap to maintain but in reality they
>> cost
>> about the same".[/color]
>
> I wouldn't buy a German car with YOUR money. (Been there, done that.)
>
> And yes, I "get" German cars. German cars are the expensive, pouty, and
> high-maintenance mistresses of the road. Damn, they are a fine, fine
> ride...
>
> ....but then the maintenance and pouting kicks in.
>
> At some point, without unlimited funds, you are at a decision point:
> continue the high-priced, high-maintenance fun, or go back home and
> enjoy your reliable Lexus wife of a car, patiently sitting there waiting
> for you to get over the midlife crisis.
>
> Oh sure, she's not as sexy as the German car, and she doesn't handle at
> the edge like the German car. She's also not as fickle and high
> maintenance and pouty, and she agrees with you much more of the time.
> She's always there and never complains, and you come to realize there's
> more to life than a high-maintenance relationship with a pouty,
> high-maintenance woman--no matter how sexy she is or how fun the nights
> out with her can be. Because when she lets you down and demands more of
> you than you have to give, and treats you like dirt, you're standing
> there all alone outside the club, looking and feeling like an idiot.
>
> Your Lexus wife would never, ever do that to you.
>
> And the occasional fun night out isn't worth what you end up paying for
> it, both financially and in time wasted while you wait for the German
> car mistress to be in the mood to play.
>
> Do this: start paying attention to cars with tail light and headlight
> problems. What brands of cars are you seeing? That's right--VW, M-B, and
> BMW. And pay attention to how old, or rather how new, those problem cars
> are.
>
> The reality of electrical issues with German cars make Lucas electrics
> look reliable.
>
> Now *try* to find a Honda or Toyota, either low brand or high brand, no
> matter how old, with non-working tail lights. Good luck.
>
> It's a small thing, but it represents the reality of the situation. You
> want to buy a German car? Just buy a GM car. At least the money you're
> throwing away stays more inside the country--and you get just as
> reliable a car.
>[/color]


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Old 08-14-2006, 06:24 PM   #19 (permalink)
Elmo P. Shagnasty
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Re: is250 vs. 325i

In article <ebqhek$qhm$2@news.datemas.de>,
[email]richard@news.vrx.net[/email] (Richard Sexton) wrote:
[color=blue][color=green]
> >screams something way different than a Corolla...)[/color]
>
> Yeah it screams "look at me I look a lot like a Mercedes
> but use even more expsneive Toyota parts that aren't
> engineered to last decades". What a deal.[/color]

Ah. As opposed to even more expensive Mercedes parts that aren't
engineered to last any more than a few years.

Face it--M-B ain't what it used to be.

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Old 08-14-2006, 06:25 PM   #20 (permalink)
Elmo P. Shagnasty
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Re: German car? no thanks (was Re: is250 vs. 325i)

In article <xf6dnSuP5tD9mXzZRVnyvw@pipex.net>,
"Dori A Schmetterling" <ng@nospam.co.uk> wrote:
[color=blue]
> What really sorts the wheat from the chaff is age. The paintwork on a
> BMW/Merc is as good as new after ten years, and so is the interior if has
> been treated with a modicum of respect. And the shapes age pretty
> gracefully. I doubt you could say that of most Japanese cars. How many
> keen drivers are there of, for example, ten-year old Toyotas. Is Toyota as
> proud of its seriously high mileage drivers as Mercedes is?[/color]

You plainly aren't paying any attention to what's going on around you,
otherwise you wouldn't have even come close to making the above
statement.

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Old 08-14-2006, 06:26 PM   #21 (permalink)
Elmo P. Shagnasty
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Re: German car? no thanks (was Re: is250 vs. 325i)

In article <ebqh79$qhm$1@news.datemas.de>,
[email]richard@news.vrx.net[/email] (Richard Sexton) wrote:
[color=blue]
> Try buying a German car that's not thrashed. I've had new Japanese cars
> and old German cars and the Germans cars have been far far cheaper to
> maintain.[/color]

Pardon me, but that's utter and complete bullshit.

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Old 08-14-2006, 06:26 PM   #22 (permalink)
Dori A Schmetterling
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Re: is250 vs. 325i

Some years ago I used to receive the monthly mag of the ADAC, the largest
German motorists' organization (equivalent to UK's AA but many more members
and, I suppose the USA's AAA), quite regularly. Once a year they would
publish their breakdown/rescue stats, which made interesting reading. Only
brands that sold more than 10 000 cars per year were included.

It was a very rough-and-ready table but put three Japanese brands at the top
(seemingly most reliable) in every class they were represented. I recall
Mazda and Toyota - maybe Honda was the third.

Thing is, the results were not normalised for usage. Thus Merc S-Class
performed relatively poorly in these tables but what was omitted was the
fact that such cars tended to be very high-mileage vehicles.

Make of it what you will.

DAS

For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
---

"Richard Sexton" <richard@news.vrx.net> wrote in message
news:ebqhek$qhm$2@news.datemas.de...
[...]
[color=blue]
> Yeah it screams "look at me I look a lot like a Mercedes
> but use even more expsneive Toyota parts that aren't
> engineered to last decades". What a deal.
>
>
> --
> Need Mercedes parts? [url]http://parts.mbz.org[/url]
> Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: [url]http://mbz.org[/url]
> 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: [url]http://rs79.vrx.net[/url]
> 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | [url]http://aquaria.net[/url] [url]http://killi.net[/url][/color]


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Old 08-14-2006, 09:07 PM   #23 (permalink)
Richard Sexton
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Re: German car? no thanks (was Re: is250 vs. 325i)

In article <elmop-0EEA68.19262414082006@nntp3.usenetserver.com>,
Elmo P. Shagnasty <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:[color=blue]
>In article <ebqh79$qhm$1@news.datemas.de>,
> [email]richard@news.vrx.net[/email] (Richard Sexton) wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Try buying a German car that's not thrashed. I've had new Japanese cars
>> and old German cars and the Germans cars have been far far cheaper to[/color]
>[/color]

No, that's been my experience. You may not agree. That's ok
reaosnable people disagree all the time.


--
Need Mercedes parts? [url]http://parts.mbz.org[/url]
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: [url]http://mbz.org[/url]
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: [url]http://rs79.vrx.net[/url]
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | [url]http://aquaria.net[/url] [url]http://killi.net[/url]
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Old 08-14-2006, 09:11 PM   #24 (permalink)
Richard Sexton
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Re: is250 vs. 325i

In article <elmop-1994C1.19244414082006@nntp3.usenetserver.com>,
Elmo P. Shagnasty <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:[color=blue]
>In article <ebqhek$qhm$2@news.datemas.de>,
> [email]richard@news.vrx.net[/email] (Richard Sexton) wrote:
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>> >screams something way different than a Corolla...)[/color]
>>
>> Yeah it screams "look at me I look a lot like a Mercedes
>> but use even more expsneive Toyota parts that aren't
>> engineered to last decades". What a deal.[/color]
>
>Ah. As opposed to even more expensive Mercedes parts that aren't
>engineered to last any more than a few years.
>
>Face it--M-B ain't what it used to be.[/color]

I'll be the first to admit that, I don't have much confidence in the new
cars. But if you can afford a Maybach you probably don't care.

I did see an old 240Z yeterday but the point remains you don't see many
old Japanese cars. I imagine getting parts for them might be an issue but
I'm just guessing.

Ironically the motor in that 240Z is a copy of the MB 6 from that era.

Copy copy copy.


--
Need Mercedes parts? [url]http://parts.mbz.org[/url]
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: [url]http://mbz.org[/url]
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: [url]http://rs79.vrx.net[/url]
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | [url]http://aquaria.net[/url] [url]http://killi.net[/url]
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Old 08-14-2006, 10:00 PM   #25 (permalink)
bfd
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Re: is250 vs. 325i


"Richard Sexton" <richard@news.vrx.net> wrote in message
news:ebrags$38b$2@news.datemas.de...[color=blue]
> In article <elmop-1994C1.19244414082006@nntp3.usenetserver.com>,
> Elmo P. Shagnasty <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:[color=green]
> >In article <ebqhek$qhm$2@news.datemas.de>,
> > [email]richard@news.vrx.net[/email] (Richard Sexton) wrote:
> >[color=darkred]
> >> >screams something way different than a Corolla...)
> >>
> >> Yeah it screams "look at me I look a lot like a Mercedes
> >> but use even more expsneive Toyota parts that aren't
> >> engineered to last decades". What a deal.[/color]
> >
> >Ah. As opposed to even more expensive Mercedes parts that aren't
> >engineered to last any more than a few years.
> >
> >Face it--M-B ain't what it used to be.[/color]
>
> I'll be the first to admit that, I don't have much confidence in the new
> cars. But if you can afford a Maybach you probably don't care.
>
> I did see an old 240Z yeterday but the point remains you don't see many
> old Japanese cars. I imagine getting parts for them might be an issue but
> I'm just guessing.
>
> Ironically the motor in that 240Z is a copy of the MB 6 from that era.
>[/color]
Actually, the old 240Z from 1970-73 had a 2.4 liter engine that was
bulletproof. It was a larger version of the engine used in the old Datsun
510 (1968-73). The main problem with those old Datsuns wasn't the engine or
lack of parts, but that the steel body on them were so thin that most rusted
out, even here in California.

In general, Toyota/Lexus may be a bit more reliable than BMW. However, you
buy a BMW for the way it drives. If you don't notice a difference or can't
appreciate it, then get the Toyota.

Btw, if you look under the hood of a Lexus, most parts say Toyota, so yes,
it is a TOYOTA!


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Old 08-15-2006, 12:05 AM   #26 (permalink)
Brooke
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Re: is250 vs. 325i

I would forget the IS 250 and 325I and look at the IS 350 and 330I. I went
through the same decision and ended up with the IS 350. The 330I was a very
nice looking car and had the best ride of anything that I have driven, but
the IS 350 has lots of power and lots of cool gadgets. The IS 350 also has
a very good ride, and since I spend most of my driving time stuck in
traffic, the curve handling performance is not important.


It is also cool to turn on the Power button, disable the VDIM, and smoke
your tires in the IS 350!


"Robert A. Cibiras" <Cibiras@BellSouth.net> wrote in message
news:tJSDg.14912$vj1.12683@bignews5.bellsouth.net...[color=blue]
>I am interested in trading my Acura TL, and have narrowed the most likely
>possible replacements to the Lexus is250 and the BMW 325i, both with manual
>transmission.
>
> I am interested in whatever input anyone might have. I have owned a number
> of Toyotas over the years, but no Lexus and no BMW.
>
> I have heard that Lexus takes Toyota's quality and attention to detail to
> the next level, and that in the long run BMW is very expensive to
> maintain. I have friends who own both - and swear they wouldn't drive
> anything else.
>
> Suggestions, pros, cons, all info would be appreciated.
>
> Many thanks.
>
> Robert
>
>[/color]


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Old 08-15-2006, 05:24 AM   #27 (permalink)
Elmo P. Shagnasty
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Re: is250 vs. 325i

In article <OKudncuGaNowpXzZnZ2dnUVZ_vSdnZ2d@comcast.com>,
"bfd" <bfd853@comcast.net> wrote:
[color=blue]
> Btw, if you look under the hood of a Lexus, most parts say Toyota, so yes,
> it is a TOYOTA![/color]

Look under the hood of a Benz and the parts all say Daimler-Chrysler.

So they're nothing but Chryslers. Interesting...

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Old 08-15-2006, 08:56 AM   #28 (permalink)
Fred W
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Re: is250 vs. 325i

E Brown wrote:
[color=blue]
>
>
> According to Edmunds.com, the cost per mile for the 2003 Lexus IS
> 300 is .60 cents, while a 2003 330i is .63 cents, averaged over 5
> years of ownership while driving 15,000 miles/year.
> epbrown[/color]

....which, considering the method of acquiring the data, is statistically
insignificant.


--
-Fred W
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Old 08-15-2006, 09:00 AM   #29 (permalink)
Fred W
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Re: German car? no thanks (was Re: is250 vs. 325i)

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:[color=blue]
> In article <elmop-E6C5D5.13431614082006@nntp3.usenetserver.com>,
> Elmo P. Shagnasty <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:
>[color=green]
>>Now *try* to find a Honda or Toyota, either low brand or high brand, no
>>matter how old, with non-working tail lights. Good luck.[/color]
>
>
> You're saying the bulbs never blow on Japanese cars? They must be
> different Hondas and Toyotas we get in London...
>[/color]

well, actually, now-a-days they don't use bulbs at all. L.E.D.s

--
-Fred W
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Old 08-15-2006, 09:09 AM   #30 (permalink)
Fred W
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Re: is250 vs. 325i

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:[color=blue]
> In article <OKudncuGaNowpXzZnZ2dnUVZ_vSdnZ2d@comcast.com>,
> "bfd" <bfd853@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>[color=green]
>>Btw, if you look under the hood of a Lexus, most parts say Toyota, so yes,
>>it is a TOYOTA![/color]
>
>
> Look under the hood of a Benz and the parts all say Daimler-Chrysler.
>
> So they're nothing but Chryslers. Interesting...
>[/color]

Yeah. What's your point? Does this somehow relate to a BMW?

Good thing most of us in the lexus and bmw newsgroups don't give a rats
behind about MBs...

--
-Fred W
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