Head Gasket - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums

89toyota4x4 · 06-24-2006, 04:24 PM

Today was a dissapointing day.

Finally got my 91 tercel (3E-E) back together. With a freshly rebuilt head, timing belt, tensioners, etc etc.

Anyway after triple checking the timing was right i cranked the engine in a few short bursts to build up fuel pressure and everything sounded ok.

Started it up and it ran great for about a minute. It really sounded nice.

Then i noticed some faint blue smoke coming from the tailpipe. It got worse over the next minute. Revving the motor a little caused a huge cloud to come out. I shut the car down.

I am assuming i screwed up with the head gasket really bad. I did not replace the piston rings as a compression test showed the problem was in the head, and my mechanic friend said the insides of the cylinders looked really good. I left the bottom end alone and did all this other work and now its smoking much worse than before.

I used a fel pro gasket and applied a thin coat of permatex to the head, block, and both sides of the gasket. I followed the torque procedure in the correct order.

My dad thinks i should try to retorque the head but i am afraid to do this. I will rent a compression gauge tonight and check compression and see what that tells me.

My dad thinks that it is white smoke and that im burning antifreeze but it looks blue to me....whichever color - it is a lot of smoke.

Any advise is appreciated....I will post compression when i have it. I will not run the car other than to crank it for the compression test.

ToyotaTechGeek · 06-24-2006, 04:52 PM

well, first of all, never put any kind of rtv on the head gasket.
second, you have stretch bolts. if you torqued them to factory specs in several passes, then you have to add an extra 90* to the bolts.

also, if you didn't touch the rings or anything, then keep in-mind that you've sealed-up everything else pretty well, so any compression will leak where the seal isn't 100%...which may very well be through the rings.

89toyota4x4 · 06-24-2006, 08:14 PM

i didnt know you werent supposed to use sealer on the head gasket. I did not use RTV silicone but instead another type of permatex specifically for gaskets that my mechanic friend told me i needed to use.

And when i torqued the bolts I followed the correct sequence to 22 ft lbs, 36 ft lbs, and the final extra 90 degrees.

SO maybe the permatex is in there screwing everything up.

I cranked the engine over by hand and each time a cylinder goes into compression you can hear the air escaping back out....hopefully through the head gasket and not the rings.

I guess it wont be that hard to buy another head gasket and bolt set and do it all over again.

***Tercel GTS*** · 06-25-2006, 02:08 AM

I'd pull the spark plugs and see if any are oily/wet.

ToyotaTechGeek · 06-25-2006, 08:12 AM

how many times has that head been off? the bolts are good once from the factory and the second time once the head has been removed. was this head resurfaced? did the engine get hot? i mean HOT???

89toyota4x4 · 06-25-2006, 11:43 AM

The head has only been off once to my knowledge.

The car was burning quite a bit of oil and a compression test revealed the problem was in the valves. I had a guy rebuild the head and he replaced all the exhaust valves. One was burned and the other three the heads were bent slightly and would not seat properly. He machined the mating surface of the head also. I checked the block and it was smooth, but i will double check when i pull the head again.

The rebuilt head was installed with all new bolts and tightened properly once. So these bolts are good to use again?

Since putting it back together it has only been run for about two minutes.

The engine never overheated since ive have the car. It NEVER lost ANY coolant and the coolant NEVER has looked contaiminated by oil at all.

It would make sense to me that the extreme pressures and heat inside the cylinder burned or blew out some of that gasket sealer i mistakenly put on and is sucking oil into the cylinders.

My current thinking is to get a new head gasket and install it right this time. Of course i would have to spend some time to clean all that gasket sealer off the mating surfaces. It should go pretty easy now that i know how to do it.

I am going to wait a few days and talk to some people. I apprieciate any relpies on here also.

***Tercel GTS*** · 06-25-2006, 01:13 PM

Only two minutes? I'd check/clean the plugs then restart it. Many times after swapping head gaskets it needs to heat to full operating temperature to seat everything in. I'd try it before I started taking bolts loose.

*edit*
I agree you shouldn't have anything on the gasket, but I've seen many installed that way and still run fine.

***toyomoho*** · 06-25-2006, 05:39 PM

Aside from the blue smoke, how did the engine run. Smooth, rough, etc.

If you have a compression tester, do a test and see what you fine.

Donald · 06-26-2006, 04:12 PM

My Dad (old school mechanic) gave me a bit of advice on installing gaskets. He said always grease both sides of a gasket, except where the manufacturer specifies using sealant. The grease impregnates most gaskets making them more pliable and therefore more able to conform to irregularities in the mating surfaces, it makes taking stuff apart a lot easier and most times the gasket is reuseable if necessary.

Just thought I would share this with you all.

ToyotaTechGeek · 06-26-2006, 04:45 PM

the grease would totally incapacitate the graphite impregnated lube that comes standard on OEM Toyota head gaskets...

89toyota4x4 · 06-26-2006, 08:56 PM

Well, i meant to do a compression test tonight.
I started up my truck in the driveway and ran in the house to grab a credit card, and when i came back out on the porch i watched my truck roll across the road and smash into the neighbors car. Needless to say i spent the night on the phone with insurance companies and pounding and prying my bumper back so it wont rub the tire. The neighbors cavalier was pretty messed up though. I guess i should fix my parking brake.

Tomorrow i will rent a compression gauge from autozone and post the results.

Thank you all for the replies so far.

ToyotaTechGeek · 06-26-2006, 09:09 PM

holy bad luck, batman.

89toyota4x4 · 06-27-2006, 05:49 PM

Did a compression test tonight.
175-175-180-180. (psi)
I left the gauge on each cylinder for about a minute and it didnt drop.
Note this is with the engine cold instead of hot...Im nervous about running it.

3 out of the 4 spark plugs were badly fouled with oil.

Compression test BEFORE any work was done on the engine was 185-185-110-130 (psi)
Note this was done with the engine hot like you are supposed to.

I am unsure what to do now....please advise.

Thanks.

ToyotaTechGeek · 06-27-2006, 05:51 PM

adjust the valves. keep them slightly 'tight'. then do the compression test. after that, if there isn't sufficient evidence, then do a 'wet' check. then after that, try a leakdown test.

well, lemme add to this:
were the valves cut? were the guides at least inspected? how about the condition of the seals? how about the valve springs? perform a perfunctory 'test' when you do the adjustment. shake (or try to ) the valves when you get to each one. eyeball the movement of the camshaft and valve/springs when you go to the next stroke. make sure the valve events seem at least 'normal'.also inspect the camshaft for any weird or suspect wear.

89toyota4x4 · 06-27-2006, 07:31 PM

i did adjust the valves tonight.
The guy who worked on the head replaced all 4 exhaust valves, checked the seats, replaced springs, and did all new seals.

The engine sounds really good when it runs. A lot better than before. It was making some valve noise hence my adjusting the valves.

I was wondering about the PCV valve. I dont really know much about them but it makes sense that if it is stuck open it would be sucking oil at idle (high vacuum). I could test it by disconnecting the vacuum hose to the intake and plugging the intake port and see what happens....
Of course i will sandblast the sparkplugs first before i re-install them...