starlet EP80 timing belt marks

[paulo lanca]

I see its not gonna be easy to find the EP80 wokshop manual, but meanwhile can someone give me a hand? why after replacing the drive belt, check and double check the timing marks of the crankshaft and camshaft pulleys
the idle speed and performance was not riding good.
I know the ignition timing set usually for toyota 1E engines: 5º ± 2 BTDC @ 850 ± 100 RPM. So I used a timing light, and instead of 5º ± 2 BTDC its 23º BTDC?!!! How??? And the engine only rides good with this settings.
PS: I turned the distributor left and right but the with no good results.
Can someone explain me why?
Thanks

[Donald]

Are you sure that you are checking the timing from #1 spark plug lead? #1 is the one nearest to the timing belt.

[paulo lanca]

Yes my friend, i´m sure,
that´s why i´m so confuse.
Thanks

[NickR]

To treble-check the valve timing, do a compression test. If the compression is consistently and significantly low on all cylinders, that probably means the timing belt is not on right. If the compression is good, the timing belt must be on right.

[paulo lanca]

Hi NickR,
thanks for the help tomorrow i´m gonna check all the cilinders than i´ll let you know the PSI of each.

[tgidavid]

EP80/82 timing is 10deg BTC @900 rpm

Make sure you have short the diagnostic port before doing this as the timing will change according to the ECU.
Port E1 and T1 I believe.

[paulo lanca]

Originally Posted by tgidavid

EP80/82 timing is 10deg BTC @900 rpm

Make sure you have short the diagnostic port before doing this as the timing will change according to the ECU.
Port E1 and T1 I believe.

thanks but this model EP80 don´t has ECU, but i ckeck the cilinders, nothing all showed 160PSI
Coud be the distributor?
Thanks

[NickR]

160psi sounds good, on a cold (and old?) engine. So I think the timing belt must be on right.

Let's think about some of the simple things: the car was running OK, and then you replaced the timing belt, right? Or the car was running OK, then the timing belt broke, and then you replaced it, right? Did you replace/remove anything else at the same time? Distributor? Distributor cap? Rotor?

Are the spark plug wires back on in the right order?

If you start the engine, and pull off each spark plug wire in turn, does the rpm drop for every plug wire?

[paulo lanca]

Yes, it has 103.210Km
When I bought it, the car was stopped for an year.
I replace the battery, pushed the starter and than he was, running , only the idle speed was uncertain, I ride with it about 2.000km, the engine was ok, so i decided to do small repairs.
I replaced:
New Engine Oil 10 30W + Filter, Air filter, Gasoline filter, Cooling Water + Thermostat, gear box valvoline 80W and new Brake Pads.
After this I runned about 400kms, the acceleration /engine was ok, but the idle speed stood uncertain, but I continued my repairs and replaced:
New Alternator belt, Drive Belt + Idler pulley (Toyota original Parts), Spark Plug Wiring (Toyota original Parts), Spark Plugs NKG (recommended by Toyota),
Distributor Cap + Rotor (Toyota original Parts)
I did not remove the Distributor
After this, I runned about 150kms, the acceleration /engine was ok, but the idle speed
stood uncertain, that’s when I decide to use the timing light, to check the Ignition
-Equus Innova 3568 digital timing light-ht568 Digital Timing Light
(I already went to a Toyota Dealer – for this model the Ignition Timing its: Between 10-5º BTDC at 950Rpm)
So I used the timing light and saw the Timing ignition has far away from the Toyota settings so pushed the distributor forward and backwards, as the timing ignition approached the 5ºBTDC the idle speed decreased a lot, till the engine stopped, I increase the idle speed adjusting the screw and drove for a while, hesitates on acceleration and idle speed uncertain, loosen the distributor bolts again, changing the timing opposites the 5ºBTDC, to have a better idle speed and good acceleration has to be on the 23-26ºBTDC.
I assure you are the spark plug wires are on in the right order, its not the first time I do this kind of repairs.
I didn’t use the timing light before replace the timing belt, maybe this was my mistake.
Best regards

[NickR]

So, before you checked the ignition timing, the car ran well. You checked the timing, and it seemed to be "wrong". You set the timing "right", and the car ran very badly. You changed the timing back to "wrong", and the car ran well again.

So, what is "wrong" must be right, and what is "right" must be wrong. Right? So the only question is "why?".

Wrong timing marks on the crank pulley? It would be interesting to remove #1 sparkplug, then use a screwdriver down the sparkplug hole to find out where tdc really is, and then see if tdc according to the screwdriver corresponds to tdc according to the timing marks. My guess is that when you do this, you will find that tdc according to the screwdriver reads about 20 btdc according to the timing marks.

[paulo lanca]

Originally Posted by NickR

So, before you checked the ignition timing, the car ran well. You checked the timing, and it seemed to be "wrong". You set the timing "right", and the car ran very badly. You changed the timing back to "wrong", and the car ran well again.

So, what is "wrong" must be right, and what is "right" must be wrong. Right? So the only question is "why?".

Wrong timing marks on the crank pulley? It would be interesting to remove #1 sparkplug, then use a screwdriver down the sparkplug hole to find out where tdc really is, and then see if tdc according to the screwdriver corresponds to tdc according to the timing marks. My guess is that when you do this, you will find that tdc according to the screwdriver reads about 20 btdc according to the timing marks.

Yes, its true, before i checked the ignition timing, the car ran well but the idle speed was always uncertain, increasind and decreasing from 700RPM to 850RPM and some times lower.
i thought this normal, as the car was stopped during an year, but near the 23º 26ºBTD the idle speed gets much better no dropping or going up.
Like i said before i have an EP70 i changed the timing belt too, check both, side by side, everything seems ok to me.
I understood your ideia, coud be a tooth on the Crank pulley,i´m gonna do it
Once again...Thankssssss

[NickR]

I think the timing belt must be on right, because otherwise you would not get 160psi compression.

I think that when you set the ignition timing at what looks like 25btdc the ignition timing is really at 5btdc, because otherwise the car would run very badly. The ignition timing marks must be giving you false information, somehow.

By putting a screwdrive in the #1 spark plug hole, and turning the engine until the screwdriver tells you it is at tdc, you can then check if the ignition timing marks are giving you false information.

[paulo lanca]

....i´m getting really curious about this, i removed the crankshaft pulley, i checked the crankshat timing whell, the alignment is ok, the camshaft pulley is ok too, (it fits only in one position aligns with the crankshat timing whell you can´t fit it wrong).
I used the srewdriver like you said the engine is a TDC (I saw the piston at TDC), the plugs are all ok.
I already changed drive belts before but its the first time this happened, i´m about to give up...do you have more ideas?
thanks