Help, 92 Tercel failed Emissions, lots of info inside - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums
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#1 Old 02-16-2008, 05:19 AM
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Unhappy Help, 92 Tercel failed Emissions, lots of info inside

Ok, first thing is first. I am in the Air Force and have PCSed to Alaska for the next 3 years (not by choice!) and decided to buy a cheap winter car that I could afford to insure and put litle gas into. I bought a 92 Toyota tercel with the 3e-e motor and 4spd manual tranny. I am going to list pretty much all the things the previous owner did to the car. most of this he did because he too failed emissions but eventually passed with flying colors. I can't even get the car on the base until I get it registered so I have to work on it in weather thats usually well below zero in the snow lol. But I don't mind to much I guess! Ok here are parts replaced and most have dates as well.

Spark plugs 2004
oil and filter yesterday
air filter yesterday
new battery yesterday (hard to start at -40 degrees)
exhaust manifold gasket 2005
EGR valve sensor 2005
02 sensor 2005
egr temp sensor was unplugged - for repair it was connected and idle adjusted 2005
EGR valve assy and gasket 2005

lots of headwork...as per reciept
shims
timing belt
more shims
head set
ex valves
boil heads
mag head
grind valve
grind seats
surface head
all in 2004 with over 500 dollar bill it seems

Ok now after all this the car passed emissions with previous owner in 2005 with excellent numbers. Me the other day not so good. Failed for CO and HC. Now before I went car threw a CEL for air temp sensor. Cleaned it and reset ecu with EFI fuse. Did the dumb thing and only waited 30 minutes of idle time (no driving) before testing. ECU for sure had no time to reset. May have even damaged something the morning before trying for about 15 mins to get it boosted off trying over and over to get it to start at -10 degrees. So I failed this test and it was noted I was running rich.

After the test the car ran horrible and would not idle good at all. Drove down highway and idled fine in parking lot waiting on oil change (rarely turn off your car up here bc of cold.) They changed my oil and said they couldn't keep it running (they are good honest people IMO) Every time they puuled PCV valve from the valve cover car would stay running. Replaced PCV valve with no real luck. Turned up my idle ( I can't check it bc I have no tach and I think they guessed at it maybe) and was able to drive it back but feels to idle around 1100rpm or a lil lower. my test numbers are as follows...

HC ppm (limit 750 at idle and 2500rpm) me 1571 idle and 633 2500rpm
CO% (limit 1.00 idle and 2500) me 6.73 idle and 3.17 2500 rpm.
co2 reading 9.8 idle 12.7 at 2500
02 reading 1.74 idle and .70 at 2500 rpm
idle rpm reading was 1054rpm
2500 rpm reading was 2457 rpm
(rpm readings were before the shop changed them.)

Should add that while messing around I removed the TPS and may have gotten it out of adjustment? The car was running pretty damn smooth 5 days ago when I bought it with no CEL at all. Where hsould I start on this? Already ordered a new thermostat and also new Intake Air temp sensor to cure the code of 24. Thanks for ANY help what so ever!
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#2 Old 02-16-2008, 09:32 AM
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As you already know the numbers you posted indicate a genuine rich condition, and replacing that air intake sensor certainly may help. You mentioned that you took the TPS off; did you actually remove the two screws that hold it on? If so, the TPS needs to be adjusted properly; it's absolutely critical to how the engine runs and idles. If you want I can find the instructions for setting it. You'll need a meter and a feeler gauge.

As far as the issue with the PCV valve, I think what was happening was the idle was so low that the engine was dying, and when the hose is pulled a vacuum leak is created, raising the idle and keeping it running.

You at Elmendorf?

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#3 Old 02-16-2008, 12:20 PM
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Hey.. well I have no idea abotu the numbers that you jus said. But i had a 3E engine in a tercel.. and it didn't pass like 2 times in a row. At the end it was the cataylic converter. Replaced it and the car passed. Not saying that the problem. But just throwing it out there.
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#4 Old 02-16-2008, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Qslim View Post
As you already know the numbers you posted indicate a genuine rich condition, and replacing that air intake sensor certainly may help. You mentioned that you took the TPS off; did you actually remove the two screws that hold it on? If so, the TPS needs to be adjusted properly; it's absolutely critical to how the engine runs and idles. If you want I can find the instructions for setting it. You'll need a meter and a feeler gauge.

As far as the issue with the PCV valve, I think what was happening was the idle was so low that the engine was dying, and when the hose is pulled a vacuum leak is created, raising the idle and keeping it running.

You at Elmendorf?
At Eielson actually. Yeah I tooke off the tps , tooke the screws out to remove it. would help to have the directions to reinstall. I need to lookin into a multimeter! Thanks for the responses guys
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#5 Old 02-16-2008, 05:05 PM
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  1. Loosen the two set screws that secure the TPS to the throttle housing (DO NOT REMOVE THE SCREWS). On California models apply at least 14 inches vacuum to the throttle opener.

  1. Connect an Ohmmeter to terminals IDL and E2 of the TPS after removing the connector.
  2. Insert a 0.024 in. (0.60 mm) feeler gauge between the throttle stop screw and stop lever.


  1. Rotate the TPS counter-clockwise and slowly back clockwise until the Ohmmeter just looses continuity, (infinite ohms).
  2. Secure the TPS with the two set screws.
  3. Remove the feeler gauge and recheck TPS setting.
  4. There should be continuity with a 0.020 in. (0.50 mm) feeler gauge inserted in the stop. There should be NO continuity with a 0.028 in. (0.70 mm) feeler gauge inserted in the stop.



Remove the Ohmmeter and reconnect the TPS connector.

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#6 Old 02-19-2008, 02:40 AM
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Haven't had a chance to get back to you guys yet. I changed the spark plugs and after just a couple of starts they had carbon build up (black) on them. The wires look fine. I removed the vacume lines from the egr valve and stuff and tried to spray some cleaner in them and try and get any carbon deposits out. I didn't get to work on it to much and today was 40 degrees wich is the warmest weather we have had in months. Hopefully I can get a seasonal waiver long enough to get it on base and actually work on it. I am not sure how old the cat is and I am kind of saving that as a last resort seeing as the cost is high and may not fix the problem. The motor idles pretty good but has some up and down feel to it...maybe just a bad motor mount. Car performs excellent during acceleration with no hesitation that I have felt. There was a little black soot behind the tail pipe on the snow today after letting it run and reving it some. The muffler does sound like there is a little chug sound, but then again..it has alot of miles on it and may just be a shot muffler I also have not took the multi meter or feeler gauges to the TPS just yet. I did line it back up as close as possible to the original yellow markings that were there
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#7 Old 02-21-2008, 05:38 PM
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Ok, got a seasonal waiver and drove back to base anyways. Got it in my garage now. I got the code to go away for the ait temp sensonr and got a code 71 I think it was for egr malfunction. Reoved egr valve and it was BAD with carbon build up. Cleaned it back out pretty good. Seafoamed it last night and it idles alot better it seems for now, I for sure need a new gasket where the ext manifold connects to the pipe. It's leakeing badly. STILL smells like car is running very rich. What should I check? This is getting old quick lol.
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#8 Old 02-21-2008, 06:00 PM
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You imply the car ran OK when purchased, is this correct. Did you do anything to the engine before it started to run poorly?

How does then engine run when first cold started, OK, rough. Does it get rougher running as the engine warms up or always runs the same (rough)?
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#9 Old 02-22-2008, 12:28 AM
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If you haven't done the TPS thing by the book, you really need to. Everything you've described so far indicated that it's running way rich, and the TPS is a critical baseline item that needs to be set and verified good before you start digging into other stuff.

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#10 Old 02-22-2008, 03:54 AM
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The car was running good when I bought it and I really can't think of anything that would hae made it this bad, minus the I/M test. After the IM test it really started to get bad. The car died for the first time on me when trying to leave the testing place. Weird I know. I plan to do the TPS this weekend. The car starts when cold but it has a hard time getting up to rpm..chugs quite a bit but steadys out with giving it a little gas it seems? After the car is warm it runs like a champ. No hessitation to speak of when accelerating or anything. I also ordered a new catalytic converter was well as a new 02 sensor and a new rubber fitting that goes around the pcv valve as the other has now broken in the cold.
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#11 Old 02-22-2008, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qslim View Post
  1. Loosen the two set screws that secure the TPS to the throttle housing (DO NOT REMOVE THE SCREWS). On California models apply at least 14 inches vacuum to the throttle opener.
  1. Connect an Ohmmeter to terminals IDL and E2 of the TPS after removing the connector.
  2. Insert a 0.024 in. (0.60 mm) feeler gauge between the throttle stop screw and stop lever.

  1. Rotate the TPS counter-clockwise and slowly back clockwise until the Ohmmeter just looses continuity, (infinite ohms).
  2. Secure the TPS with the two set screws.
  3. Remove the feeler gauge and recheck TPS setting.
  4. There should be continuity with a 0.020 in. (0.50 mm) feeler gauge inserted in the stop. There should be NO continuity with a 0.028 in. (0.70 mm) feeler gauge inserted in the stop.



Remove the Ohmmeter and reconnect the TPS connector.
Far easier way of doing this:
Backprobe IDL and E2 with DVOM set to volts and ignition on. Make sure throttle body is clean. Make sure throttle FULLY CLOSED. If you have to have someone hold it closed. Turn TPS till DVOM reads 0 volts. Turn back till it just starts to give a voltage reading then slowly return to where it just reads 0 volts. Tighten screws, it is set. i then suggest you have the injectors cleaned with a BG products kit. You may also want to check and replace the O2 sensor.

Ex Toyota MDT 28 years of experience. I still fix them daily by appt only. Written warranty-great prices. References available.
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#12 Old 02-22-2008, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by hevster1 View Post
Far easier way of doing this:
Backprobe IDL and E2 with DVOM set to volts and ignition on. Make sure throttle body is clean. Make sure throttle FULLY CLOSED. If you have to have someone hold it closed. Turn TPS till DVOM reads 0 volts. Turn back till it just starts to give a voltage reading then slowly return to where it just reads 0 volts. Tighten screws, it is set. i then suggest you have the injectors cleaned with a BG products kit. You may also want to check and replace the O2 sensor.
What do you mean by backrpobe? By DVOM you are speaking of a volt meter correct? I thought also about pullig out the injectors and cleaning in gas and seafoam. How difficult are they to get out? I am still kind of a novice with cars but have learned abit since I have had so many old ass cars!
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#13 Old 02-22-2008, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boosted91 View Post
What do you mean by backrpobe? By DVOM you are speaking of a volt meter correct? I thought also about pullig out the injectors and cleaning in gas and seafoam. How difficult are they to get out? I am still kind of a novice with cars but have learned abit since I have had so many old ass cars!
Backprobing is done with the connector on the TPS and probing the wires through the back of the connector-backprobing!
DVOM= digital volt ohm meter. A decent one at radio shack is about $30-40 bucks.
I would leave the injectors on the car to clean them. If you remove them you do not clean the pintle as it will not open without power and ground. Find someone who does the BG products injector cleaning. If you cannot find them then 3m is ok. BG is better though. It will cost about 100.00

Ex Toyota MDT 28 years of experience. I still fix them daily by appt only. Written warranty-great prices. References available.
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#14 Old 02-22-2008, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by hevster1 View Post
Backprobing is done with the connector on the TPS and probing the wires through the back of the connector-backprobing!
DVOM= digital volt ohm meter. A decent one at radio shack is about $30-40 bucks.
I would leave the injectors on the car to clean them. If you remove them you do not clean the pintle as it will not open without power and ground. Find someone who does the BG products injector cleaning. If you cannot find them then 3m is ok. BG is better though. It will cost about 100.00
That is wha tI thought you meant when you said back probing. Just never heard it called that I just bought a new craftsman DVOM last weekend. Now need to pick up a 9 volt battery seeing as how they don't say on the package that it doesn't include one lol. As far as the injector cleaning, is there any way of doing this myself? In Alaska it is hard to find places to do that type of stuff for a good price. You said about 100.00 and the same service here ( 32% higher cost of living average) from the few places I know that do it charge as much as 200.00 So if I could somehow do it myself that would be great. I also need to change the draing plug in the oil pan as it's leaking, I may change the pan gasket while I am in there, can I drop the oil pan without removing anything else major? I also want to go ahead and replace the gasket where the exhaust manifold connects to the actual pipe after it. I am going to go ahead and get the part tmrw. Do I need new bolts or anything for the connection? Seeing as how they are probably extremely rusty? I think there is an actual kit but not sure...
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#15 Old 02-22-2008, 03:28 PM
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I did a little checking. A kit with adapters starts at 300 and goes to 500 or better. If you can get BG44k, run at least 2 tanks of fuel through the system with 1-2 cans per tankful. That is the most economical way to do it. If BG is n/a try Chevron techron or techrolene.
The drain plug has a small fiber washer on it. Make sure it is good or replace it. If the threads are stripped let me know. I would recommend a heli coil or recoil kit. If you do a pan reseal it uses black silicone. The best is OEM Toyota known as FIPG black. You need to remove the exhaust from the manifold to do the pan. I have seen many of these break the exhaust flange off the pipe. If it is cracked or broken you probably need to replace it. Welding may not be an option. Use new nuts. You may needs studs as well. Lube the nuts overnight if possible before trying to remove them. If possible have the exhaust warm but not hot. This helps the oil penetrate better. For the exhaust gasket get one at the dealer. They last 3-5 times longer and fit better. Cost? about 5.00.

Ex Toyota MDT 28 years of experience. I still fix them daily by appt only. Written warranty-great prices. References available.
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