Oil leak nightmare - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums

whoknows118 · 05-03-2010, 09:00 AM

So, for about a month now I've been trying to figure out an oil leak on my 1992 paseo. The leak that I originally set out to fix was coming off of the right side of the oil pan. At first I incorrectly assumed it was the oil pan gasket and changed that. Well, after a little reading here I read about someone who had a leak from the similar location and changed the oil pump seal and that fixed it. So I set out to change the oil pump seals. I got it all apart, changed them and then put it back together and now it was leaking like crazy, maybe a quart every 50 miles. Couldn't even drive for reasonable distances because it sprayed oil all over my belts and they started slipping. I've torn it down and checked that everything was good again and still no go. Then I took off the oil pan for the third time and cleaned the pressure relief valve. Still no go. When watching the car run with the timing case cover off it looks like it's leaking straight out of the main oil pump seal. The one that is right under the pump timing sprocket. It leaks at any RPM. I was using synthetic oil so I thought maybe that was causing it because of the lightweight. I swapped the oil with 15W-40 and oil stop leak and it changed just about nothing.

So I guess my question is what in the world is causing it to leak like this? It was leaking considerably less before I replaced all the seals. Is it possible that the main oil pump gasket was a bad one? It slid into the housing surprisingly easy and I know the DIY guide here showed that he had to use a mallet to drive it into the housing. I just lightly pushed it in with my fingers and it went right in. It was a Felpro kit that came with the pump O-ring, pickup o-ring, front crankshaft seal and oil pump seal.

Any help on this issue would be a tremendous help, thanks in advance.

bkftl · 05-03-2010, 09:42 AM

Hi there, put the mileage please. Exact year and model number.

My guess is its gaskets? Did you use a new one every time you took shit apart? Did you use a liquid bonding agent onto the main seals? Did you WAIT at least a few days before trying to use the engine? Let it cure?

Yes? I think you need to replace the Piston rings then, cuz its burning oil.

I'm not sure.

whoknows118 · 05-03-2010, 09:56 AM

The car has 207,000 but the engine has around 30,000. It has a 5E-FE engine in it. It's not burning oil, it is leaking out of the pump itself. Taking the pump off did not disturb the seal that was leaking, it was to check and make sure that I re-assembled the gears in the pump correctly with the alignment dot and such. I did wait for the FPIG on the pump housing to cure before starting the car.

bkftl · 05-03-2010, 10:13 AM

My Tercel Manual says that the oil pump is very fragile. It should not be droped. And the Aluminum housing can eazily be damaged. Though you realy have to FORCE the new oil seal into it with a hammer...

I suggest we wait for a more experienced reply...

***96paseo*** · 05-03-2010, 11:29 AM

Did you put in a junkyard engine or a rebuilt one? Seems to me that the relief port behind the shaft seal may be clogged. Did you check that the port was clean when changing the shaft seal? Are you using assembly lube on all your seals? They do need break in protection. That seal does go in very easily. I'm not surprised you could force it in with your hands. I would still recommend using something flat to press with. Make sure its all the way in and not cocked sideways.

whoknows118 · 05-03-2010, 03:07 PM

I believe the engine is a factory rebuilt, although I'm not sure. The engine was put in before I purchased the car. He had all the papers showing freight of the engine.

I don't know how to check the pressure relief port. Would you just shine a bright flashlight into it when the pump was off? When I pulled out the relief valve oil did come out if that's any indicator. I soaked the relief valve in solvent and re-assemebled after lubing with clean oil. It seemed to slide easily enough and the piston slid with gravity after cleaning. Is it possible that if the relief valve was messed up high pressures broke the gasket seal? It leaks readily at idle at the moment.

When I had the pump off yesterday i checked the seal seating and it appeared to be uniform, not wedged either way. I did not use assembly lube, although I might have coated the with a bit of clean oil. Admittedly I can't recall. Is it possible that if I didn't lube the gasket in some manner the friction caused when the rotor started spinning messed something up?

Also, at one point I got it to stop leaking all together. I started it a couple times and it was leaking pretty good. I was hoping that the gasket swelling agent in the oil would kick in. The next morning it was all good and didn't leak. But, while i was bringing it up to a good RPM (5000 or so) it started leaking again

.

When I assembled it all yesterday I didn't have the time to let it sit overnight and see if it sealed up because I had to go back to college and leave it. I might call my parents and have them start it up and see if its sealed overnight. Like i said, right now it's full of heavyweight oil and gasket sweller.

***96paseo*** · 05-03-2010, 08:13 PM

I find it very hard to believe that a factory rebuild needs new seals at 30,000. Probably a used engine. Yes, you can shine a light through the relief port with the pump apart. I recommend cleaning it out with compressed air and then parts cleaner. Sludge can build up in the port and clog it. The seal lip can burn off if you assemble it dry. I doubt the pressure relief caused it to leak. The other seals would likely be leaking if that was the case. My other thought is that the pump to block o-ring may have moved while you put the pump back on. IIRC, Fel-Pro's o-ring does not have the nubs on it, making it harder to install without it moving. When you get a chance to work on it again, let us know.

whoknows118 · 05-08-2010, 12:43 PM

Well I'll be done with finals and I'll take it back apart this Friday. I'll use a trick I read somewhere with the O-ring by using some petroleum jelly to hold it in place while I reassemble and ensure that it doesn't move.

I will probably go ahead and replace the front oil seal with a new one either way and just use assembly lube this time and install it carefully.

And of course, clean out the relief port. Hopefully that will get it all running again. It's been aggravating because I've taken it apart like 5 times now.

Thanks for all the advice.

***96paseo*** · 05-08-2010, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whoknows118

Well I'll be done with finals and I'll take it back apart this Friday. I'll use a trick I read somewhere with the O-ring by using some petroleum jelly to hold it in place while I reassemble and ensure that it doesn't move.

I will probably go ahead and replace the front oil seal with a new one either way and just use assembly lube this time and install it carefully.

And of course, clean out the relief port. Hopefully that will get it all running again. It's been aggravating because I've taken it apart like 5 times now.

Thanks for all the advice.

Petro jelly is a good idea. You can even use the assembly lube since pretty tacky. When tackling that o-ring, hold the pump case with firm pressure against the block and evenly snug up two bolts in a criss-cross pattern across the oring area. That should help keep it from moving around and tighten it down straight. Good luck.

whoknows118 · 05-26-2010, 04:28 PM

Well I figured out what my issue was yesterday when reading through my Haynes manual. I made the amateur mistake of pushing the pump seal all the way in and blocked the relief port. After re-assembly with new seals and careful installation the major leak seems to be halted. I still appear to have a small leak at RPM above around 3500. About a drop every couple seconds. If you have any suggestions that would be great. I cleaned out the relief port on the pump like you suggested and it is good and clear. Right now I'm not terribly worried about this though because there are a lot of drops in a quart and it's perfectly drive-able.

Thanks for all the suggestions and help, they were greatly appreciated.

***96paseo*** · 05-27-2010, 09:13 AM

There is an oring on the oil dipstick tube where it plugs into the block. After replacing all my seals, I still had a leak. It turned out that oring was shot. Can you see where the drip is coming from?

rakeduncan · 05-29-2010, 06:13 PM

the solution to this problem is the oil pump. I learnt it the hard way. at first i though it was the seals but it still leaked out oil even more.
there is no gasket between the oil pump and the block. "DON'T PUT ONE!" It will leak even more and cause the pump to seize because oil is restricted tru its relief passages and some times the oil light will stay on. no joke because all of this happen to me......

The main cause for this is that -over a certain amount of mileage approx. 98,000 km/h there is a small oil seal in oil pump gear that the timing belt runs on, this starts to go bad and then in turn, oil starts to leak.
You may find another seal to replace it but i would strongly recommend a whole new genuine oil pump and it doesn't cost much see this site www.toyotapartscenter.com to buy it.
Be careful when removing the pump cause the o ring seal that sits between the block and the oil pump gets hard and brittle due to extreme heat, so be very careful to avoid damaging it.

After you slap on the new pump- without gasket, let it idle for about 15 min. and look for any leaks during that time. then when driving, try to drive between 40 to 60mph for a day or two for the pump to settle in. and then your'e good for another 90,000 miles... lol have a good day and good luck!

***Tercel GTS*** · 05-29-2010, 06:44 PM

Better use the rubber bead gasket that fits in the groove. Get one at your local dealer or online.

***96paseo*** · 05-30-2010, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rakeduncan

the solution to this problem is the oil pump. I learnt it the hard way. at first i though it was the seals but it still leaked out oil even more.
there is no gasket between the oil pump and the block. "DON'T PUT ONE!" It will leak even more and cause the pump to seize because oil is restricted tru its relief passages and some times the oil light will stay on. no joke because all of this happen to me......

The main cause for this is that -over a certain amount of mileage approx. 98,000 km/h there is a small oil seal in oil pump gear that the timing belt runs on, this starts to go bad and then in turn, oil starts to leak.
You may find another seal to replace it but i would strongly recommend a whole new genuine oil pump and it doesn't cost much see this site www.toyotapartscenter.com to buy it.
Be careful when removing the pump cause the o ring seal that sits between the block and the oil pump gets hard and brittle due to extreme heat, so be very careful to avoid damaging it.

After you slap on the new pump- without gasket, let it idle for about 15 min. and look for any leaks during that time. then when driving, try to drive between 40 to 60mph for a day or two for the pump to settle in. and then your'e good for another 90,000 miles... lol have a good day and good luck!

A new o-ring should be installed when re-assembling the pump. The old one should NEVER be re-used. Same is to be said for all seals. Your asking for a major leak re-using it. True, there is no preformed gasket for the lower section of the pump case. Thats where the FIPG comes into play. When laid out in the proper pattern and bead size, it won't leak. Be sensible folks. If a gasket is required, don't decide on your own that it doesn't need to be there. Do the job right, do it once and save yourself the headache.