Dead Cyl.

[Donr]

Hi guys
I am new to this forum an been reading the threads with attention. I am the new owner of an 1996 Tercel DX 5seed manual. The problem with it is one cyl. is dead. The previous owner told me that the local Canadian Tire mec. was estimating an $800.00 charge for head work because when he pulled the #2 igition wire, rpm did not drop.
Here is what I have done so far:
1- Compression test revealed 165 psi on all cyl.
2- Cylinder leak test determined less than 5% leak on all cyl. with slight hissing sound coming from the oil cap.( Probably Rings) 170,000 km.
3-Replaced igition wires. Turned out #2 wire was shot. #2 now fires although when pulling the wire, rpm drop is less than when pulling any of the other 3 wires. Also swiched the 2 coil packs around to see if ther would be any change. None. Also unplugged injectors while idling to see if they were working. All ok.
4- When road testing, still one cyl. badly misfiring (Dead) But when I slowly let go of the gas, it looks like the dead cyl. is coming alive and then going again. I can get it up to 100Kmh in fifth by slowly playing with the gas pedal. When the cyl. starts working, the car runs great but, it won't stay like this.
5- I am thinking that the engine is healthy because of the compression and leak test readings and also because the car will work on all fours on and off.
6- The MIL light is on but I dont have a scanner. Is there another way to retrieve the codes?. We dont have AutoZones up here that will read the codes for free. Last time, my dealer charged me #100.00 to read the codes on my Intrepid.
7- The previous owner gave me a timing belt. It has been 100,000Km since it was last changed. Just wondering if this could have anything to do with it!

Well, I can't think of anything else at this time. If you think of something that I overlooked or something else I could check, please feel free to help out. Thank's
Don

[Damage82]

I think I have the same problem you have, I was told I have low compression in my number one cylinder. I'm going to watch this thread and see how you make out. Later!

[jeffs94]

Originally Posted by Donr

Hi guys
I am new to this forum an been reading the threads with attention. I am the new owner of an 1996 Tercel DX 5seed manual. The problem with it is one cyl. is dead. The previous owner told me that the local Canadian Tire mec. was estimating an $800.00 charge for head work because when he pulled the #2 igition wire, rpm did not drop.
Here is what I have done so far:
1- Compression test revealed 165 psi on all cyl.
2- Cylinder leak test determined less than 5% leak on all cyl. with slight hissing sound coming from the oil cap.( Probably Rings) 170,000 km.
3-Replaced igition wires. Turned out #2 wire was shot. #2 now fires although when pulling the wire, rpm drop is less than when pulling any of the other 3 wires. Also swiched the 2 coil packs around to see if ther would be any change. None. Also unplugged injectors while idling to see if they were working. All ok.
4- When road testing, still one cyl. badly misfiring (Dead) But when I slowly let go of the gas, it looks like the dead cyl. is coming alive and then going again. I can get it up to 100Kmh in fifth by slowly playing with the gas pedal. When the cyl. starts working, the car runs great but, it won't stay like this.
5- I am thinking that the engine is healthy because of the compression and leak test readings and also because the car will work on all fours on and off.
6- The MIL light is on but I dont have a scanner. Is there another way to retrieve the codes?. We dont have AutoZones up here that will read the codes for free. Last time, my dealer charged me #100.00 to read the codes on my Intrepid.
7- The previous owner gave me a timing belt. It has been 100,000Km since it was last changed. Just wondering if this could have anything to do with it!

Well, I can't think of anything else at this time. If you think of something that I overlooked or something else I could check, please feel free to help out. Thank's
Don

WOW, you do have some kinda problem there. The CEL may or may not be the cause but its certainly worth looking at incase it is. The compression is fairly good and even, the leak down ws low, replaced wires with new ones and still the problem is there under a load? An coil will react differently when under a load vs. not under a load or sitting at idle. Did you OHM out both coil packs? The DIS uses whats called a "waste spark" system where......well......its a little complex to explain but it fires 2 plugs normally and 2 plugs in reverse or through the ground side of the plug.

[Donr]

Thanks for reply jeffs94.
No I didn't ohm out the coil packs. Is there a procedure somewhere I could use to do this? What's the CEL? I put a vacum guage on today and it reads 22 going down from 1 to 2 when misfire occurs at idle. I did notice that when pulling the #2 wire, vacum only goes down to around 20 while pulling #1, it goes down to 15. I will pull the head if I have to but as a last resort. I rechecked leak test today and turned the crank to see if leak would occur indicating scored cyl. but everything looks fine. .I tried checking compression again today but somehow my tester broke. It will only go up on the first stroke and does not hold its reading for subsequent strokes. Was working ok yesterday. This one has me stumped.
Don

[NickR]

"CEL" = "Check Engine Light"

I doubt that it's the timing belt, because if the belt had slipped all 4 cylinders would probably have problems.

It does sound spark-related. Is it a coincidence that #2 wire was shot, and you are still having problems on #2 even after replacing the wires? I expect you have already checked the #2 spark plug? Have you checked the disty cap? (Does the 96 have one??).

Sorry I can't be of any real help.

[jeffs94]

Originally Posted by Donr

Thanks for reply jeffs94.
No I didn't ohm out the coil packs. Is there a procedure somewhere I could use to do this? What's the CEL? I put a vacum guage on today and it reads 22 going down from 1 to 2 when misfire occurs at idle. I did notice that when pulling the #2 wire, vacum only goes down to around 20 while pulling #1, it goes down to 15. I will pull the head if I have to but as a last resort. I rechecked leak test today and turned the crank to see if leak would occur indicating scored cyl. but everything looks fine. .I tried checking compression again today but somehow my tester broke. It will only go up on the first stroke and does not hold its reading for subsequent strokes. Was working ok yesterday. This one has me stumped.
Don

More then likely the problem is the coil pack that feeds your #2 cylinder. I dont have the specs for OHM-ing out the coil packs. I havent really dealt with the DIS engines.....yet but the symptoms would lead me to check the coil pack after scanning for codes as they could be related.

[Donr]

I agree in that it does sound spark related. But like I mentionned earlier, I switched the coil packs around to see if the problem remained and it does. I will go buy an obd ll scanner as well as a compression tester and see what the codes are. I will post back later. In the meantime, if anyone knows the procedure for testing the coil packs, plese feel free to post it. Thank's

Don

[jeffs94]

Originally Posted by Donr

I agree in that it does sound spark related. But like I mentionned earlier, I switched the coil packs around to see if the problem remained and it does. I will go buy an obd ll scanner as well as a compression tester and see what the codes are. I will post back later. In the meantime, if anyone knows the procedure for testing the coil packs, plese feel free to post it. Thank's

Don

When you switched coil packs, did you drive it? and if so, are you sure that the same cylinder is still misfiring? A weak coil wont be able to handle the increased load/demand while driving. I bet the CEL is a misfire code.....?

[jeffs94]

http://www.alldatadiy.com/alldata/AF...59819/34859826

[jeffs94]

The above link may help ya out.

[Donr]

Well, I followed thew procedure and the coil packs test ok out of the car. Rechecked compression and am now shure engine is ok.I don't remember if I drove it. But I cleared the codes, put back the coil packs in their original position and test drove the car till the MIL turned on and pulled the codes.
OBD ll scan, here are the codes:
P0300Random Misfire.


P0302Misfire Detected - Cyl. 2.P0303Misfire Detected - Cyl. 3.

The misfire is for shure on #2 because now it is worse than ever. Pulling the wire has no change and the cyl. is dead. Can the coil pack test good out of the car and be shot under load? I really dont know where else to check. I just might clear the codes, switch the coil packs around again and test drive to see if this happens on the other two cyl. That should confirm if it is the coil pack.
Don

[jeffs94]

Originally Posted by Donr

Well, I followed thew procedure and the coil packs test ok out of the car. Rechecked compression and am now shure engine is ok.I don't remember if I drove it. But I cleared the codes, put back the coil packs in their original position and test drove the car till the MIL turned on and pulled the codes.
OBD ll scan, here are the codes:
P0300Random Misfire.


P0302Misfire Detected - Cyl. 2.P0303Misfire Detected - Cyl. 3.

The misfire is for shure on #2 because now it is worse than ever. Pulling the wire has no change and the cyl. is dead. Can the coil pack test good out of the car and be shot under load? I really dont know where else to check. I just might clear the codes, switch the coil packs around again and test drive to see if this happens on the other two cyl. That should confirm if it is the coil pack.
Don

You ask wether a coilpack can test good out of the car and be shot under a load? Yes it can, it wont be able to keep up with engine demand, sooooo swap the coil (#2 and #3) with the other coil ( #1 and #4) and take it out and drive it, when the CEL comes on, pull the codes and see what comes up, if its #1&#4 then ya know what coil pack is bad. GOOD LUCK!

[Donr]

Swapped the coil pack around. Now the problem is on the other two cyl. codes po300,301,304. Will buy a new one tomorow and hope it eliminates the problem. Will post back after with a recap of what was done.

Don

[jeffs94]

Originally Posted by Donr

Swapped the coil pack around. Now the problem is on the other two cyl. codes po300,301,304. Will buy a new one tomorow and hope it eliminates the problem. Will post back after with a recap of what was done.

Don

[Donr]

OK here is the recap:

Purchased car with $800.00 estimate for a valve job.
Bought 2 ignition wires for $50.00. Heeeee Expensive!!
Compression and leak test confirmed motor was healthy.
Posted on this board and with your help, found that the coil pack was damaged.
Non in stock at dealer so purchased used for $50.00.
Car runs like a charm.

I could have gotten away without buying the wires because they came with the coil pack but, now at least I know they are good. Can you beleive that certified mecs will give odd ball estimates without even taking the time to really verify what the problem is! Oh well, previous owners loss and my gain. So for $350.00, my tool box acquired an obdll scanner and a brand new compression tester. Still almost $500.00 less than if I would have had the job done and the car would still not be running . Thanks to all.
Don